ARTHUR ENTWISTLE INTERVIEWS.

 

 

This is tape 78/A1/01. The informant is Arthur Entwistle who is a retired engineer who now lives at Stratford-on-Avon but was born in Barnoldswick and left the town in I think the 1930's. He is 70 years old and he's staying with me for a week.  He's a personal friend of mine actually but I want to interview him for his knowledge of the town in those days and also the reasons why he left the town when everybody else was going into textiles.  Now one thing about Arthur, he's just had an operation for the removal of one lung. and has lung cancer, so he's very, very softly spoken.  I shall do the best I can but we shall have to see how we go on with these tapes.

 

 

LANCASHIRE TEXTILE PROJECT

 

TAPE 78/AL/01

 

THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON THE 17th OF SEPTEMBER 1978 AT HEY FARM, BARNOLDSWICK.  THE INFORMANT IS ARTHUR ENTWISTLE, RETIRED ENGINEER AND THE INTERVIEWER IS STANLEY GRAHAM.

 

 

You’ll find this is a very relaxed thing to do.  I’m not, this isn't studio recording we’re not bothered if the cat farts under the bed, we're not bothered about that at all.  What  we want is the information and funnily enough as you start to get relaxed and it starts to come out it gets so that it is to all intents and purposes a studio recording.  I think so anyway. Anyway that's my tale, I'll start now.  How old are you Arthur?

 

R - Seventy one this month, 24th of September.

 

And you were born..?

 

R - 1907.  24th of September.

 

24th of September 1907.

 

R - 1907 yes.

 

And where were you born?

 

R - Born in Barnoldswick. I was born in Market Street, No.9 and lived there until the war broke out.

 

Yes.

 

R - I don't know whether that's relevant or not.

 

Oh yes, yes we'll get round to that. I shall get round to that. You're alreight Arthur. Market Street, which is Market Street?

 

R -  Well, you know where the Ivory Hall Club Is?  Well If you went down that side street from the Ivory Hall Club, say you was going from here you'd go down a little slope wouldn't you then there's a succession of streets running into Newtown.

 

That's it.

 

R - Well there’s Orchard Street and Market Street.

 

That's it aye and Garden Street an all.

 

R - Well Market Street in my early days.  The only recollection, one vivid recollection I have, it was one Christmas, I had two aunts died and buried in the same week.

 

Yes.

 

R - Christmas week.

 

Yes well we'll get round to that, you’ll be surprised what you will remember about that before you've finished.  Anyway, how many years did you live in the house that you were born in, that’s at Market Street?

 

(50)

 

R - Not many years, as a matter of fact to be quite honest about it I can't remember myself living there.  I can only remember my grandmother living in that street if you understand what I mean.

 

Yes that's it, so the family moved when you were fairly young.

 

R - The family moved when I was fairly young.  I don’t know whether you want to know the first recollection of where I lived.

 

Yes, which is the first house you remember?

 

R - Well the first house I remember has disappeared now.  It was at the bottom of Manchester Road which many years later became a barber's shop.  But I remember being frightened by the first motor lorry I ever saw.

 

Now this house that used to be a barber's shop, that ud be the house that's, it's a newsagents now is it?  Next to the Seven Stars.

 

R-  No it’s disappeared.

 

Whereabouts was it then?

 

R - Well you know where they've cut the corner off at the bottom of Manchester Road onto Church Street?  They've cut that corner off.

 

Yes, that's it. yes.

 

R - Well there was a barbers shop there and houses.  And that's where I first remember.  I was only quite young, I know I ran into the house screaming and the vivid thing I remember about that was, those days the wheels were wooden spokes with a hub cap like they have on the old cars.

 

Aye.

 

R-  A brass cap, and that were the thing that frightened me.

 

(5 mins)

Aye. So how old would you be when you were living in that house?

 

R - I should be about two years old.

 

Oh well that's not so long.  And how long did you live in that house there?

 

R -  Well a number of years.  The time factor didn't seem to mean a lot to us when we were that age, and there are only certain things in life give you a vivid remembrance.  The second one was being taken to the doctors on Jepp Hill where the town hall was or is, to have a boil lanced off me backside.  I was so young, in those days it wasn't customary to breech a boy until he was about four or just prior to going to school, so he was dressed in petticoat's like a girl.  That was a painful recollection, ‘cause as I say I went to the doctors to have this boil lanced. Do you want to know where 1 moved from there?

 

Yes well I’ll keep you going with questions.  Now have you any idea why the family moved from Market Street to the bottom of Manchester Road?

 

R - No 1 haven’t.

 

No it's alright if you haven't that's....

 

R- I have a surmise which may be incorrect and may be doing an injustice but there was a question of arrears of rent.  I don’t know.

 

Aye, well that's, well 1 mean that's common but as I say that doesn’t matter.  Now what was the next house you moved into?

 

R -  We moved down into Twenty Row.(Wellhouse Street)

 

(100)

 

Which is Twenty Row?

 

R-  Well, you go down Wellhouse Road and there's your Avenues on your left hand side and then you turn up and you can go on to Rainhall Road.  And then there's streets running along there that's 19 Row and 20 Row.

 

That's the same row that the Co-op Hall is on.

 

R-  Possibly yes.

 

That's it yes.  And how old would you be when you moved into Twenty Row?

 

R - I should say four years old.

 

Aye.  And how long did you stop in that house?

 

R-  We stopped in that house until the beginning of 1914.

 

So you'd be about six year old. So you’d only been in that house about two years.

 

R-  Six.  I was going to school.

 

Aye, you'd only be in that house about two year then.

 

R - That's all,

 

Where did you move to from Twenty Row?

 

R -Well we moved down to what they commonly call China Town.  I'm trying to think of the name of the street which eludes me at the moment.

 

That's right.

 

R – It’s the last street going down Gisburn Street. [Colin Street]

 

Yes.

 

R - The last row of houses.  And there was no more built there because war broke out.

 

That’s it, and how long did you live in that house down there?

 

R-  We lived in that house two years because me dad joined up on the day after war was declared for some reason or other.  The day after war was declared he joined up immediately and he thought it would be better if me mother moved near to where his father and mother lived.  For what reason I don't know.  One can't say it was for mutual protection because there was no danger to civilians then.  But anyway we moved to Padiham in the same street as his father lived in.  Well I say we moved to Padiham, we moved to Hapton first, a little village just outside, and as soon as a house became vacant in Padiham, what was called the Green, we moved there.  And why I remember so much about that is I was sent to a Catholic School and being moved about, young as I was, every fresh school that I went to I had to have a fight on the first day I went to school to establish whether I were duff or not.

 

And how long did you live at Padiham?

 

R-  Well we lived in Padiham until early 1917 and I think

 

(150) (10 mins)

 

there was some domestic upheaval.  At my age at that time these things don't become apparent but I think the old man suspected that mother had another chap but the truth of the matter was he’d made an alliance with another woman and he were just trying to make trouble.  ‘Cause I remember him promising me a wrist watch if I told him certain things I couldn't tell him because I didn’t know if you follow what I mean.

 

Yes.

 

R - And that would be 1917. The result was a family disagreement with his father, my grandfather. Its an amusing thing, I might just put this in, symptomatic of the times. The old man, it was his second wife and in those days of course they had the coal man coming and the clothing club man coming, they had the rent man coming and other small petty collectors every week.  And times being what they were, they'd get the single bed downstairs and buy the old chap a couple of pints and get him to be in bed while the collectors had come, he was an invalid.  As soon as the collectors had all gone, back up stairs went the bed and off to the pub went the old man to spend his earnings.  Anyway, however, we came back to Barnoldswick and we got into a house in Orchard Street, very primitive.  There was one room downstairs, there was one bedroom upstairs and the secondary bedroom, if you can visualise a bedroom with half a roof or loft as you might term it.  Me sister and I had to go up this specially made ladder and we slept in the loft, and then the old man he got, well 1 wouldn't say wounded, he was invalided home with trench foot. That was very early 1918 and he spent very nearly a year in Keighley Military Hospital.

 

That house in, what was it Orchard Street.

 

R - Orchard Street.

 

How long did you stop there?

 

R-  We didn't stop long after me dad came home, well I say came out of the army, when he was invalided over to the hospital, 'cause we never knew whether he might have to go back to the war but we got this house, number 7. St James Square

 

(200)

 

and lived there until 1924/5.  1925 from 1918. 

 

So that were the house you were in longest actually.

 

R-  That were the house we lived in longest.

 

And you went into that house, what did you say, 1918?

 

R-  1918.

 

So you'd be ten year old roughly.

 

R - Yes.

 

So you'll have a fair few recollections about that house in St. James' Square won't .you?

 

R-  Oh yes.  Definitely.

 

Well what I’m going to ask you some questions now.  I'll be getting on to some questions about the home, you know, and the house.  Well they’ll be about that house in St. James' Square.  What number was it?

 

R-  Seven.

 

They'll be about 7 St. James’ Square.  Now that’s just to keep you orientated you know, and then.  Because you did shift about quite a lot, but that's quite a good age that, ten year old in 1918 you see.  Now where was your father born?

 

 R-  Verbally, from verbal statements he was born at Mill Hill near Blackburn.

 

Aye.  And why did he come here?

 

R-  Now, he served his time with Howard and Bullough.

 

(15 mins)

 

As an engineer.

 

R-  As a, well as an engineer yes and he was always a man with a violent and fierce temper.  And what one would call the overseer or charge hand today, he tell foul of this fellow, and I think this fellow, as was customary in those days, thumped him. Anyway the old man waited.  As you know the sanitation in those days wasn't very brilliant. There was a row of cubicles outside, little buildings with a door on, a tub and a trap door at the back to drag the tub out, a limited amount of privacy.  I know this again is recollecting an anecdote that the old man told about this affair after the charge hand had thumped him.  He waited cunningly until this bloke went to the toilet and of course in those days all the machinery was driven from one central engine by shafting and belting and they used to use on the belts to stop 'em slipping what they called 'Black Jack'.  Now from what I can gather this was not exactly like tar, more cottony but still adhesive. I know the old chap waited until he went to the toilet,

 

(250)

 

the story goes, and he’d marked out which one he went to.  He craftily opened the back door a little bit and he got his 'Black jack' stick and tin and he just slapped this bloke on the backside and his privates and buggered off and joined the navy.  When I say he joined the navy, he joined the Royal Marines. That were before, that was when he was a young lad as you might say, young fella.

 

That's it aye, So he had to leave Blackburn then there’d be no work.

 

R-  Well he went and enlisted straight away. I mention this because you say how did he come to leave Mill Hill and come to Barlick.  Well when he came out of the Royal Marines he came to Barnoldswick for some reason or another, where of course eventually he met and married me mother and that's how he settled down in this town and held various occupations.  Those days if you'd eighteen and six (18/6d) a week wage, I'm speaking of before the first war, I'm goings back now before the war, you wasn't doing so badly.  He made this from bicycle repairs and that.  Newsome's used to have a shop at bottom of Jepp Hill.  This is next to that paper shop now.

 

Yes.  We'll get round to jobs in a minute Arthur.  Now where was your mother born? 

R-  My mother was born at Low Moor, Clitheroe.

 

Aye.  What was her date of birth?

 

R - Oh dear, no. 

 

What year did she die? 

 

R-  I know this might sound funny to you but 1 can't remember. 

 

It's quite common Arthur, it's quite common.

 

R-  The only thing 1 do remember about it is that she died on the day which would have been my birthday but the year....

 

That’s quite common, don’t let it worry you.  You'd be surprised it might come back to you.  Did you have any brothers and sisters?

 

R -  Well, yes.  If the family as a whole had survived there would have been thirteen children.

 

(300)

 

Now that's it, you just hold on a minute now. This again is common, how many confinements did you mother have?

 

R - Well It's quite possible she could have had fourteen or fifteen if you count miscarriages.

 

No that's confinements, that's how many times she was actually.,

 

R-  Actually confined, thirteen.

 

(20 mins)

 

Oh I see.  She had a couple of miscarriages. I was wrong there Arthur.  So now, of the confinements how many children survived?  How many survived the first two or three days, that got to be any age at all?

 

R- The first one died, be about seven months old, and there again I'm speaking from recollecting what our parents said.  This child apparently was abnormally intelligent, uncannily so.  If I'd believe what my mother and father said, this child could pick with one finger a tune out on the piano.  But he died as a result of vaccination.

 

So how many children, let's get at it from the other end.  How many children actually survived?

 

R - How many children survived, four of us that's all,

 

Four, and roughly what age did the others die at?

 

R-  Well an far as I can remember it varied between six months old and two years old.

 

Yes.  That's fairly common again Arthur.  Have you any idea what the causes of death were?  You said the first one was vaccination?

 

R-  Well, my recollection, I could say partially malnutrition.

 

Were any of them born after you?  Whereabouts did you come in the family?

 

R-  There was one born before me, the one I've just mentioned who could play on the piano.

 

So in actual fact you are the oldest surviving child.

 

R-  I’m the oldest surviving.

 

The oldest survivor of four children.

 

R-  Yes.  My sister was two years younger than I.

 

What was her name?

 

(350)

 

R-  There was children born in the intervening years, the war of course upset things a little bit.  After the war I had another brother born, Owen.

 

What was your sisters name?

 

R - Evelyn Maude.

 

And what was your brothers name?

 

R-  Owen was born just as 1 started work.

 

That's it, and then there’ll be another one.

 

R-  And then there was Cyril born two yearn after him.  That was the last child born in the family.

 

So that's three brothers and one sister. [in the family]

 

R - Yes.

 

Reight.  When you were a child can you ever remember any relations living with you in the house?

 

R-  Not really, no.

 

We're talking, remember we're talking about the house in St. James Square now.

 

R-  Yes.  Ah now then, relations living with us in the house.  Well not until 1 was about eighteen and we moved, we had a relations come to live with us, a cousin.

 

When you say a cousin was it male or female?

 

R-  Male cousin.

 

Yes, why did he come to live with you?

 

R-  On the distaff side.  He was local, a local boy.  He was born in Barnoldswick like 1 was but his mother, she wasn't over educated but she had a reputation of getting lots of girls out of trouble.  In other words what is now considered a highly profitable profession of creating an abortion.  Which she got many a girl out of trouble and of course finally, and it does happen in these cases, something went wrong and she was sent to Strangeways prison.

 

What was her name Arthur?

 

R-  Margaret Macdonald.

 

Any idea where she lived?

 

R-  Yes she lived at the top of Wapping, what i believe, is it Esp Lane?

 

Yes that's it.

 

R-  She lived down there.  Well I should say till she practically died there.  I left this area a good few years ago as you remember.

 

Yes that's it.  What year would that be about?  When she went to Strangeways?

 

R-  Let's think again.  1926 approximately.

 

Good.  You see you're doing well on your dates.  You'll be surprised..

 

R-  The family was split up.  One boy came to live with us and the girl and another boy went with other members of the family for the terms that she was in prison.

 

(25 mins)

 

And how long was he with you?

 

R-  Well he was still there after I got married, which would be 1928 so he was there a year or two.

 

1928 you got married.

 

R - Yes.

 

Now, did the family ever have any lodgers?

 

Not in my living memory, although I heard that my dad had his brother lodging with him for a while until he got married.  Which was probably before 1 was thought of or I came on the scene.

 

What was your fathers job when you were born do you know?

 

R-  Well on my birth certificate he's listed as a gas fitter.  Because in those days there was no electric in the town of course and it wasn't every house that was connected with gas.  I'm happen jumping ahead a little bit but 1 remember as a boy going with me dad and helping him to put gas in.  Lots of houses only had gas down stairs.

 

And when you were In St. James Square your father ud come back from the war.  What was his job then?

 

R-  He went working on the railway as a porter.

 

How long did he stay as a porter on the railway?

 

R – Oh, 1919..I should say about six or seven years at the most.

 

So that ud be from 1919 to about 1926. 1926/27?

 

R-  When was the great strike.  General strike, he was working on the railway then and I think he finished just afterwards. 1 think it was 1926 the great strike, the general strike.

 

(450)

 

When the miners and everything came out.  ‘Cause I remember there wasn't a saw to be bought in the town and there wasn't an axe because everybody was going out chopping fencing down and chopping trees down.

 

Did he have any other jobs after that?

 

R – What, me father?

 

Yes.  When he finished being a porter what did he do then?

 

R-  He went in the factory, cotton factory.

 

Which one?

 

R - Let me see, I think it were Edmondson's, Fernbank, which is cotton trade.

 

What was he doing there, do you know?

 

R-  Sweeping.

 

That ud be about 1927.

 

R-  Thereabouts. Yes it would be 1927 yes.

 

1927.  That's very early for sweepers, very early for sweepers.

 

R- There were sweepers there then,

 

Yes.  As I say it was very early for sweepers though that date.  Now when he was working for the railway he’d be working for the Barlick Railway of course wouldn't he.

 

R-  That's right. Well the LMS.

[It would be the Midland Railway when Arthur’s dad first went to work for them.  The London Midland and Scottish Railway was formed in 1923 following the Railways Act of 1921.  The Barnoldswick Railway had been run by the Midland from its inception {opened Feb 8th 1871.  Closed to passengers 27th September 1965 and to freight on 1st August 1966} but was taken over by them in 1898.]

And he was not only stationed here, he graduated to be good enough to be a relief porter and if someone was on holiday at a remote country station such as Appleby, places like that, Ribblehead where you had a station master, one porter who was clerk. ticket collector and what have you he [went as a relief]  I remember because I spent one jolly good holiday at Ribblehead while he was working on the railway, watching the Flying Scotsman come up and come down.

 

We'll get round to that an all. Now what was your mother’s job Arthur,

 

R-  Weaver all her life.  A cotton weaver all her life, yes.

 

(500) (30 mins)

 

Can you remember any of the firms that she worked at?

 

R-  Well the names unfortunately would elude me.

 

Well the mills then, that'll be good enough Arthur.

 

R-  Butts, Pickles, sheeting shop down at Westfield, Hartley Edmondson’s at Fernbank.  Sheeting shop over the Coates and I think she finished her weaving days at Edmondson’s Fernbank.

 

So was she weaving while you were young, while you were being brought up. Let's say St. James Square.

 

R-  Well, we’re going back before St James Square if you want to know about her weaving.

 

R-  Because it was customary in those days for women in the cotton trade, I can remember being carried out to be looked after by my grandmother, wrapped in a shawl, before six o'clock in a morning.  To be left with me grandmother for to be nursed while me mother was working, at Coates mill then.  And I remember her telling that the icy conditions were such and so bad that they used to have to take their clogs off at the bottom of Coates Bridge and go up more or less on their hands and knees.  Working conditions as far as I can recollect were not too favourable for the textile workers.  ‘Cause I remember vividly being carried out.  Why I remember it is the sparkling frost of the street lamps which seemed to be deeply impressed on my memory, snuggled in the warmth against my mothers breast and under the shawl.

 

(550)

 

And so if she was taking you out to a child minder and you were the eldest of the survivors she'd also have the younger children to take out as well.

 

R-  I might sound to be boasting here when I say my memory goes back quite a long way, and at that time I don’t think my sister was born.  I could only have been about eighteen months old.

 

Yes, so can you remember how long would it be after, say the birth of your sister or one of your brothers, before your mother went back to work?

 

R-  Well, economically it was essential.  While grandmother was living of course she was always there as child minder.  But I've seen, I've know me mother be back at work no more than a month after the termination of the pregnancy.

 

Would she be breast feeding her children then?

 

R-  I can’t recollect her breast feeding any of the children.  She might have done but not to my knowledge.  Well, put it this way, I don’t remember seeing her breast feeding.

 

That'll do Arthur you can’t do any better than that.  How old was she when she died?

 

R-  She would be about sixty four.

 

Now apart from you, because obviously I know that you left the town but did any other members of the family leave the town.  When did you leave the town Arthur?   What date was it about, roughly?

 

R - When I left Barnoldswick?  In my more adult years as you might say, after I was married.  I left Barnoldswick on New Years day in 1939.

 

Yes.  Now did any of your brothers or sisters leave the town?

 

R-  Not at that date, not until I got settled and then it was inevitable of course, I had one brother that was serving his time at 7/6d a week, and I got him a job and he came to live with Amy and I.

 

(600)

 

Who was that?

 

R-  Cyril and then we got Owen down later.  Owen was an apprenticed bricklayer and he worked on the new school on the New Road.

 

What was your sister's name?

 

R-  Emily Maude.

 

(35 mins)

 

Did she stay in the town or did she move down as well.

 

R-  She married a boy in Nelson and lived in Nelson until her husband was called up into the navy.  When he joined the navy she came down to live with me mother and father and unfortunately her husband never came back.

 

Now when you say came down to live with mother and father, did they move down to the Midlands as well?

 

R-  As I said, once I got settled not only did my brothers come down prior to my mother and father coming down. I had them and then me mother and father come down and I also had an uncle and aunt came down.

 

Aye.  So there was a wholesale exodus of the Entwistle family from Barlick!

 

R- That's right.  And some Fishwicks.

 

And Fishwicks aye, Fishwicks. That was your mothers maiden name was it?

 

R-  No, me sisters married name.

 

Aye.  Narthen, this house in St James Square, how many bedrooms did it have?

 

R-  Two.

 

What other rooms were there?

 

R - There was two rooms downstairs with a very small kitchen.  When I say a small kitchen it was a queer house because

 

(600)

 

one room was triangular, which the bedroom above of course would be.  And part of the triangular room downstairs which was on the other side of the staircase, which was an open staircase by the way, was this small kitchen.  The other room which would have been considered to be a parlour in the polite term in those days, was me fathers work shop.  I remember he got permission to have, well he had gas mains laid on and in his workshop he had a gas engine running.

 

So that means you lived in the kitchen..

 

R-  Well we lived in the living room downstairs, one room.

 

Well that's, you called that the kitchen didn't you.

 

R- Well you could call it a kitchen.

 

Yes, that's the triangular room you were talking about.

 

R-  No that’s just off one side.

 

Oh I see, there's two rooms downstairs.

 

R-  Yes.

 

So one of them is your fathers workshop.

 

R-  Yes which was the remainder of the triangular portion.

 

Oh I see, that's it aye.  Narthen which room did you have your meals in?

 

R-  Well we had the common living room, the big living room where the fireplace was.

 

And where did your mother do the cooking?

 

R-  It was in [that room] there was a big old-fashioned iron range.

 

That's an iron range with an oven and the side boiler?

 

R-  Oven and side boiler yes.

 

Back boiler?

 

R-  No back boiler no.

 

And where did your mother do the washing?

 

R-  Well she did it in the kitchen such as it was with a dolly tub and posser and the old wringing machine.

 

No bathroom?

 

R-  No bathroom, none whatever.

 

So where did you have a bath?

 

R-  Well when we had a bath you put a tin bath down in front of the fire and had a bath when the others had gone to bed and vice versa.

 

Aye, what night Arthur?

 

R-  Well invariably Friday nights.

 

Do you know everybody had a bloody bath Friday night!  [Arthur and Stanley laugh]

 

R-  Well invariably I should say Friday night yes.

 

The lavatory, outside..?

 

R-  Narthen here we are, now the houses in St. James Square, which are still there, although there was a demolition order on them two years ago, but I digress.  They were back to back houses and funnily enough the houses which were the other side of ours, they had to come round into this common yard where there were three houses.   There was our house number 7 and one next door, I forget the number and another, and there was a block of three lavatories, similar to what I described earlier on.  The primitive type.

 

There were a block of three toilets there.  Now those ud be dry toilets?

 

R-  Those tubs.

 

That's it, tubs dry, that's it aye.  Emptied once a week if you were lucky.

 

R-  Two families joined to one toilet.  There were six houses, three back to back.  So there was three toilets and six families joined at three toilets.

 

That's it yes. So if you were lucky you got a clean family sharing at yours. 

 

R-  Yes, not too bad.

 

Aye that's it.  And how were they emptied?

 

R-  Oh, thereby hangs a tale.  In those days, to be impolite, they used to come round on Mondays in our area anyway.  Mind you it wasn't uncommon in the town in those days to be these dry lavatories as we might call them, and to be vulgar, the old shit cart used to come round Monday.  And you can believe me all the bedroom windows were closed for quite a hell of a long way round.

 

(750)

 

R-  And I can still remember 'em sprinkling pink powder, some sort of disinfectant  stuff in the tubs. And never washed out.  And it was a thing we grew to accept, never thought anything about it.  Incidentally, the first flush toilet that I ever saw was when I went to an uncle at Manchester and I thought it was a bloody miracle.

 

And did your house have piped water?

 

(40 mins)

 

R - Yes.  We did have piped water.

 

Cold water, no hot water system.

 

R-  Yes.

 

That's it, and had you got a stair carpet?

 

R-  No.

 

Wooden stairs or stone stairs.

 

R - Wooden stairs.

 

Aye it's an open staircase you said so didn't you.

 

R - Yes.

 

Can you remember if the neighbours had stair carpets?

 

R-  I can only remember one neighbour that would have.

 

So would you say that, so you'd say that in that area stair carpets were probably uncommon.

 

R -  Well I should say they were a luxury.

 

Yes that's it.  How about floor coverings in the rest of the house?

 

R - Well floor covering.  It was a stone floor and the best thing that we could afford in those days if I remember right was coconut matting which would cover a large amount of the floor.  It had one fault it let all the damned dirt through underneath.  And very often a home made peg rug in front of the fire.

 

Aye. Who made the peg rug?

 

R-  Mother very often, but kids used to help an all.

 

(800)

 

Yes.  How about curtains?

 

R-  Well curtains, you had the usual lace curtains and whatever other curtains you could afford to buy.

 

Blinds?

 

R-  Well very often made out of cotton from the factory. and dyed.

 

Were yours made out of cotton from the factory?

 

R - I think they were yes, and dyed.

 

How about upstairs, any floor coverings upstairs?

 

R-  No, if we were lucky we got as one would say a threadbare rug that had served it’s best purposes downstairs.  At the side of your bed just so you wouldn't have cold feet.

 

How about oilcloth?

 

R-  I remember me mother’s room, mother and father’s room, being covered with oilcloth because at that house to go to my bedroom I had to go through mother’s and father’s.  Distempered walls, there were no such luxury as wallpaper.

 

Aye that's it.  Can you remember any families round about there not having curtains at all?

 

R – No.  In spite of the poverty in the town a certain amount of pride and decorum. However they managed it, they did have some sort of covering for the windows.

 

Did they donkeystone the doorsteps?

 

R-  Yes very much so.  The yellow and the white and if I might digress, this is still whilst I’m living in St James Square.  I'm sent to Blackburn every Saturday morning for lessons, music lessons, and I remember walking down the streets of Blackburn which would be a revelation to-day

 

(650)

 

because they vied with one another, the designs that could be put on the window cills and the door steps, and even on the pavement outside the houses.  In those days,  without exaggeration, you could have eaten your food off the floor because everybody swilled and scrubbed outside and donkey stoned.  It was a pride, it was a thing that you, sort of a pride.  Not that it was a great achievement but it was a sort of keeping up appearances.

 

That's it.  I often tell the tale, I have been told, I don't know whether it's right or not but I can quite believe it, that there was one street in Ashton-under-Lyne where they  even black leaded the tram lines.

 

R-  That 1 can quite well believe.

 

And as I say I've no proof that it's right but 1 can believe it.

 

R-  I could well believe it too because Lancashire people were very, very proud people.

 

Yes. Can you ever remember sand on the floor?

 

R-  Well when it comes to sanded floors, the only sanded floors I remember is the Dog just down here.

 

Aye. Greyhound Hotel.

 

R-  Yes, in a pub.  It was quite common for a lot of the pubs that had stone floors, they were nearly always sanded and not only that but round the bar and at strategic points there was always these cuspidors or more commonly called spittoons.

 

(900) (45 mins)

 

That's it.  And how was that house in St. James Square lit?

 

R-  It was lit with gas because as I said father was a gas fitter.

 

Fantail or mantle?

 

R-   Vertical mantles.

 

Aye, incandescent mantles.

 

R-  Not only that but it was on a sort of a telescope tube, you could bring it lower or push it higher according to what you wanted to do.  If you were sewing or as I said.  Many a house had paraffin lamps. To go back round all Jepp Hill and all up that way, Orchard Street was all paraffin lamps.  And as I said, anybody, eventually bit by bit they got gas in down stairs then when they could afford it they had gas upstairs .  And I can remember when I was married at first and I got a house, I got a by-pass thingummy, so you didn't have to strike a match and light the gas. I could turn the gas on from the doorway to light the gas.  Understand what I mean?

 

Yes.  A pilot.

 

R- Yes, a pilot light on.

 

(950)

 

Yes, that ud be a marvellous bloody thing then.

 

R - But the first gas lights I remember in the bedroom was very similar to a Bunsen  burner, a Bunsen burner and an acetylene lamp, which gave you this fanlight flame.

 

Fantail jet aye.

 

R-  Very poor illumination.

 

SCG/07 May 2003

6,258 words.

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