THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON JUNE 19TH 1978 IN THE ENGINE HOUSE AT BANCROFT. THE INFORMANT IS JIM POLLARD, WEAVING MANAGER AND THE INTERVIEWER IS STANLEY GRAHAM.
Right Jim, how old are you?
R- sixty-two.
So you were born in nineteen…
R – Sixteen.
... Sixteen. And where were you born?
R- Cottontree, Colne.
Can you remember the address?
R- I can't remember the address at all Stanley.
No. How long did you live in that house where you were born?
R- Three months.
Three months. And .. what other houses did you live in when you were young?
R - I lived at Earby, 53 Red Lion Street till I were .. 15.
Yes. And can you remember why the family moved from Cottontree?
R - To become bakers.
Yes. So 53 Red Lion Street, was the, was that the baker shop?
R- Bake, bakehouse.
Yes. So you lived at the shop? Yes?
And where was your father born?
R- Cottontree.
And what was his full name?
R - Alfred Pollard.
Alfred Pollard, And where was your mother born?
R - Cottontree.
Cottontree of course is at Colne.
R - Yes.
Yes, aye. How many brothers and sisters did you have?
(50)
R - One half sister, step sister.
So that was your mother's daughter, was it?
R - Me father’s daughter.
Your father's daughter. So he was married twice?
R - Married twice.
Do you know where his first wife was born?
R – Cottontree.
And she'd die would she?
R- She died in childbirth, at my sister's childbirth, half sister’s childbirth.
Is that right?
R – Yes.
So what year would that be?
R- Take it back, she is 75 now.
Seventy-five, so 1903. So there’s a lot of difference between you and your half sister? There is thirteen years…
R - Thirteen year's difference.
Was that very common then, dying in childbirth then?
R - Well I don’t know Stanley but that's what happened there.
Yes. And so you're obviously the second in the family?
R - That's right.
Yes. And when you were living at 53 Red Lion Street. Can you remember any relation ever living there with you?
R – No, me half sister didn’t, she lived at a place called Seacombe near New Brighton with one of me aunts.
Aye. And did you ever have any lodgers?
R - No.
And what was your father's job when you were born, when you lived at Cottontree?
R - Weaver.
Any idea where he wove?
(100)
R- It weren't Stanroyd Mill it were the mill higher up. Can't remember the name of the mill.
Aye. It doesn't matter, you are all right. And do you know if he ever did anything else but weave?
A - No he didn’t.
He was a weaver all his life?
R- Yes.
And how old was he when he died?
R - Fifty-five.
Fifty-five. And that’d be when, what year?
R - He died the same year as King George and he died a week after King George so that’d be 1935 wouldn't it? [George V died 20th January 1936 so this puts date of Jim’s father’s death at 27th January 1936.]
Aye, so when you were about to start work he died. Yes? And .. when he died, was that when you moved up to Barlick?
(5 Min)
R - No, when me father died…I weren’t keen on the bakehouse, ‘cause even when I went to school I knocked about mills. I were more inclined to go into the mill than t’bakehouse. So what we did, we had another twelve months in the bakehouse and then we moved out. [1937]
Yes. Who was doing the work in the bakehouse then, you and your mother?
R - Me mother and meself.
Yes. And what was your mother's job before she was married?
R - Weaver.
She was a weaver as well. Do you know where she wove?
R- Same place as me father but what they called it…?
Yes. It's right. It doesn't matter if you can’t remember. Did she work outside the home after she was married do you know?
R – No, she didn't.
No. And so obviously she’d look after the children, she’d look after you.
R - She looked after me.
Yes. And how old was she when she died?
(150)
R- Seventy eight.
Seventy eight? What year was that?
R - I think it’s like eleven year this time.
So that’d be nineteen sixty seven about?
R – Yes, round about that.
Roughly 1967. And … well your half sister did leave the town before. That’s it yes. Now then, the next questions are about the house and what not, and what you remember about the house. Now .. the house that you lived in as a child, you'll remember 53 Red Lion street, obviously you won’t remember anything about Cottontree?
R - I don't remember a thing about Cottontree.
That’s because you weren't old enough, that's it. Now then, 53 Red Lion Street, how many bedrooms were there?
R - Well to be [accurate] .. it were 53, 55, and 57, numbers of them houses.
Yes …?
R - Fifty seven was t’bakehouse, and 55 and 53, 55 was where t’front room was. 53 were where t’living room and kitchen was, and bedrooms. We had one, two, three bedrooms and a large bathroom. [So 57 was the bakehouse. I’ve been down there and the large fireplace that originally held the backstone is still in situ.]
Ah. So you actually lived in three houses in a way, you had three houses with the shop and the living accommodation
R - That's right, yes. That’s right.
And what sort of houses would they be? You know, what would you describe then as?
R- Terraced.
Were terraced houses. But were they back to back or…
R- No, terraced with a garden at the back, what we ...
So you'd have three gardens.
R- Well, we'd one garden but it were a big garden.
Yes that's it. And what other rooms were there? Besides these?
R - Well, which covered these three numbers and up to the bakehouse alone, we had what we could call a glasshouse built on where we did washing. And in there we had a big stove. With a gas tarred roof you know, and the old stove pipe coming through, wood floor with like an asbestos end painted with gas tar and such. And that looked out on to all this ground at the back.
(200)
Yes, so your father moved there in …well about 1916-17, during the first world war.
R- He’d move …yes, round about, aye, just after that.
Yes. When you were born, just after you were born? Can you remember any of the furniture at all?
R – Eh, what sticks out in my mind were the old grandfather clock. It filled one corner of the house nearly, to t’ceiling top. It had t’moon on with moon
Phases. And I can remember the big weights. Now them would amaze me, I used to wind them up, they’d be about sixteen inch in length and happen about five inch round, solid they were. Well it were … it used to tickle me did that, winding ‘em up. And then we had a piano, and one, I can remember, one key wouldn’t play. I were meant to take piano lessons, but I would sooner be down at t’Punchbowl football field, or else the cricket field. And when I had to stay in, I might have banged the piano round and the key broke off it. Well, I’d never have made a pianist or owt like that. And I can remember two rocking chairs we had, and one had come from the old family, one were th’old grandad’s. And he had a cut out in one place on the arm, and he used to crack nuts in it, so they said, I never saw him. And then, in what we called the best room, which was number 55, we had like one of those, I don’t know, like a Chippendale suite in it, some big paintings ... Now where
(10 min)
them paintings went to I don’t know, we lost them after me mother got married the second time and she moved to Birmingham, and they were put in storage you see. So, well that’s about all I can remember of the furniture. I had no interest in owt like that and I were more for going out and …
(250)
Aye that’s it, yes. You're saying your mother married again. That was, obviously, after 1935. Yes.
R- That’s right. Roughly about eighteen months after. And then we moved up to Sough . It was near to Sough. Well you call them playing fields now.
Yes, that's it, the War Memorial at Sough. When were, what year was that?
R - Going into nineteen thirty-seven.
Yes, so that’d be two years after your father died. Yes, so that’d be when you left the bakehouse you'd go and live at Sough. But you've got to live at Sough before you came to live at Barlick. Well obviously your mother wouldn’t come to Barlick with you. I never realised that. Now you came to Barlick and your mother married and ...
R - And then they finished up and went to Birmingham.
Yes, that’s it, aye.
R - And I came to live in Barlick In 1938.
Yes, that’s it, yes. And did you ever, you know, your best room, you know, number fifty-five were it? Red Lion Street, what did you use that room for, was it ever used?
R - Really it were used mainly at Sundays. Not every week, but certain times if me sister were coming, or any relations you know?
That’s it, yes, yes.
R - And they all seemed to come on a Sunday.
And which room did you have your meals in?
R- In the, mostly in the glasshouse, you know, in what we called t'big kitchen.
And where did your mother do the cooking?
R- In't big kitchen.
Yes, in t’glasshouse. And where did she do the washing?
R - I think in the kitchen, the glasshouse.
Yes. And you've already said you had a bathroom.
R - Yes.
Now it wouldn’t be very common … When was the bathroom put in there, have you any idea?
R - The bathroom were in when we moved in, as far as .. it's always been there as I could remember.
Yes, aye. That wouldn't be very common in those days would it, a bathroom? You know like then?
(300)
R- No, same as them that lived at ... 51, they hadn't a bathroom, they used to have a tin bath. I don’t think there were anybody there, apart from us, in that road that had a bath.
Aye. Do you think that was perhaps because it was a bakehouse? One of the reasons why?
R- I should think so, that's the only thing I can put it down to.
They'd be a bit better off and they had the room so…
R- Yes, that's right,
…they had a bathroom. Aye. And when you were a lad did you have a special bath night?
R - Bath night, special bath night were always Friday night.
That's it aye. It’s funny, it nearly always was, aye, yes.
R- And everything had to be, a complete change from t’vest onward you see.
That's it, aye, how about the lavatory?
R - Lavatory? It was in with, where t’bathroom was.
So it was an inside toilet
R - An inside toilet
And did it have a tippler as well outside or they'd have it done away with it?
R - We had no tippler.
Ah .. yes.
R - Only thing I remember about a tippler were me sister at Cottontree.
Yes. That’d be a tippler there. There were a lot of tipplers in Earby, we had a tippler at Sough. And obviously the house would have piped water?
R – Yes, we used to have the big cistern cupboard even then, where t’toilet and t'bath were.
So you had a hot water system, as well.
R - Yes.
And what was that from, a back boiler?
R - Back boiler.
About the bakehouse itself. What was the oven in the bakehouse?
R- What, we’d got what you'd call the backstone which were a built up brick thing, with two big thick pieces of iron where you make crumpets and oatcakes and mlkcakes, muffins.
That's it, and .. how was that fired.
R - Coal.
Coal, so it was a coal fired oven.
R - Coal fired oven.
Did your father over put turkeys in at Christmas for people? And such as that, did he ever… Some bakehouses used to didn't they?
R – Well, they'd have a job putting them in Stanley because you did all your baking on the top of them flat iron plates.
It wasn't enclosed?
R - Oh no, no it were open.
So you weren’t actually baking like.
R - You weren't baking bread and such as that, you were just baking oatcakes, milkcakes, muffins, crumpets.
(350)
Aye …Ah I see yes.
R - Which seemed to be the thing in them days.
Yes. Well I suppose a lot of people’d bake their own bread wouldn't they?
R - Me mother baked her own bread in the gas oven which we had in the kitchen.
Yes. Now that's it. And the shop, did it have a shop window?
R – No. It didn't have a shop window Stanley. He used to hire men to come and take this stuff out you see, in baskets.
Oh so you didn't sell it from the shop so much, people, obviously some people would come to the shop,
R - Some'd come to the shop that wanted some, you know, but…
But most of it'd be sold out in baskets ...
R - In baskets.
Round the houses?
R - Yes.
Aye … that’s interesting, I didn't realise that. Was that uncommon then do you think?
R – No, it were common because there were, there were another baker that did t’same thing in Earby as what we did. Then you got them all round Nelson doing that. At one time I used to pedal an old bicycle to Barlick and they used to come with a basket on the front. I used to have a carrier at t’front on me bike and I used to put a basket in there and I used to bring oatcakes and muffins and crumpets to Wallace Horsefield’s the pork butcher.
Whereabouts was his shop?
R- Bottom of Park Road which is now Penny’s, Chemist.
That’s it, yes. And can you remember where your father got his flour from?
R- Well there used to be Greenwood’s and Appleby’s then, and they used to bring it straight to the bakehouse.
They were millers?
R – Millers, yes. And where did they come from? Whether we, where they come from I don’t know. Preston or thereabouts. Used to come on their wagons.
That’d be delivered by motor lorry?
R - Aye and he used to have Greenwoods for one certain type of thing and Appleby’s for another. And then there used to be another’d bring your oatmeal from somewhere else.
Aye. Can you remember any of the prices that they used to charge then?
R- Oh I can’t Stanley, happen three ha’pence for a muffin in them days, a penny for a milkcake …
Aye. No that’s all right. Yes.
R - Or you’d get an oatcake with a penny, and you get thirteen if you got a dozen.
That's it, the baker's dozen.
R- Well I don’t know about the baker's dozen or not but .. you used to get thirteen.
Aye, that's right.
R - And we used to sell a lot to pubs, oatcakes, in them days, and
400).
they used to put it on a rack and it used to harden off and they used to sell stew and hard.
It's stew and hard. [Stew and hard was still common in the early sixties. I used to eat it regularly at the Craven Heifer in Kelbrook.]
R - Somebody didn't like stew they'd sell 'em some of this like New Zealand cheddar or sommat like that and onion on, cheese and hard.
Aye, that's it. Now then, back to the house itself Jim. Did you have a stair carpet?
R – yes.
What sort were it?
R – A narrow one, it wore red and blue. I think anybody that had a stairs carpet in them days, they were all t’same type.
Aye ... And do you remember any of the neighbours having a stair carpet?
R – Yes… I can't really Stanley, we must have been posh in them days. But we couldn't afford a stairs carpet what went up to the toilet, because, to t’bathroom, because it you come out of the bath we hadn't to have us wet feet on't carpet.
Oh, is that right?
R – We’d linoleum or oilcloth as they called it in them days.
That's it, aye. And what other floor coverings did you have on the rest of the floors in the house?
R – Oh, in the house?
Well, like when I say in the house, you know, in the … well say in the bedrooms.
(20 Min)
R - In the bedroom? We hadn't, we had just a small, what …pegged rug we used to have.
Yes, a pegged rug.
R - At each side of the bed was covered with oilcloth, linoleum.
Yes. And downstairs?
R- Downstairs we had a carpet on top of oilcloth, just square carpet.
Yes. And what kind of curtains did you have?
R- Curtains?
Yes.
R - Well we were, they were sommat similar to what they're coming back with now, but instead of being this fancy brass, they were like a wood with blooming big hooks on.
Yes… Yes, and did the neighbours have curtains as well?
R - Well, they’d either curtains or blinds..
Yes. What sort of blind?
R- Them that they pull up and down, paper they were.
That’s it, yes, spring blinds yes. And can you remember any families in Red lion Street not having curtains?
R- I can remember Alice Green next door, she had none.
No curtains at all?
R - None.
She didn’t put newspapers up at t’window?
R - Well, she would do if…
No, go on…
R - Well she put, you allus knew if there were a caller there, because she would put newspaper up to t’windows and he used to try and float out when it were dark, you see, but everybody got used to this.
(450)
Oh I see, so she was, she was tolerated.
R - Yea, she were tolerated.
Aye, aye .. and did they, women in the street, did they donkeystone the doorstep?
R - Well they used to put this here, give 'em a good scrubbing and then they'd come with the donkeystone and white edge ‘em. And .. that were on the step going into the house, but on t’window bottom they might do a bit different, they might just put a bit of yellow stone on t’bottom side and white edging at the top.
That's it, hard and soft. And .. how about the kerb stones, did anybody do, edge the kerb stone?
R - No.
No. And how was your house lit?
R-Gas.
Gas. And can you remember when you first had electric light? In Red Lion Street?
R- We never had electric.
You never had it while you were there. And how about the household rubbish, how did you dispose of it?
R - Well we used to burn a lot, but such an cinders ... I've forgotten how they were collected, I never remember dustbin men coming ... I can't even remember us having a dustbin!
It's all right, don’t worry about it. How did your mother do the washing?
R- Oh. In an old possing tub, I know there were wood rollers, and we used to have a boiler, gas boiler, she thought they were better, they'd come cleaner if they were boiled a bit.
That's it, boiler ...
R - So she took out of ‘em, and then put them in this wood machine and give them a spin you know wit' .. she had like a spinner which she did wheel around, and rollers were attached to this you know. So she gave ‘em a spin with this with a handle and then off with the lid, picked one end up and what we called mangled it through them wood rollers. And to alter the pressure, she used to have two tensions at t’top which she used to screw down
That's it, that was like a sort of washing machine.
R - Washing machine yes ...
That's it, yes. How often did she do the washing?
R - Twice a week.
Twice a week. And how long did it take her?
R - Well I couldn’t say Stanley, I weren't interested in such as household chores in them days really.
No. It's all right. How did she dry her washing?
R- Well in this ground we had which was attached to this … at the back.
Yes. And if it was wet?
If it was wet we used to have ‘em up against this stove, on what we used to call an old clothes horse, wood thing
(500)
Aye, clothes maiden, aye. And how did she iron her washing?
R - She used to heat her iron on t’gas and then she used to rub it on a rag.
Yea, so you mean they were flat irons and she used to heat them on the gas stove. That's it, she'd have a couple going at once. She didn’t use a box iron or a gas iron then?
R- No. I can remember I think we had a charcoal iron at one time, but she didn’t to a bundle on that.
Aye, she’d rather do 'em on all…
R – She’d rather sit ‘em on t’gas you know?
What do you remember most clearly about washing day? Is there anything that sticks out in your mind about washing day?
R - Well, only when I were getting older. She used to play heck about me cricket pants, they took a lot of mucking about with you know?
Aye that’s it. Grass stains?
R - Grass stain, green stain which took a lot of moving.
Aye. Oh, you had whites then?
R - Oh aye we had whites. We even had whites when we were at school, for cricketing.
Did everybody?
(25 Min)
R - Not everybody. Well, biggest part’d have a white shirt, and grey flannels. So we’d have our own flannels. But in them days if somebody were interested in the cricket team at school…his wife, the teacher's wife, would even, I've known her even buy a cricket shirt for a lad if he hadn’t one, they were that interested in the school team.
That was the wife of the school master.
R- Not the school master, one of the school teachers which were like games master.
Yes, that's it, yes. And how did your mother clean the house?
R – Well, she used to, they used to have one of them there sweepers what
you pushed it. What do they call them?
Ewbank?
R- Ewbank, that were it, that were t’name of it, Ewbank, yes.
Ewbank, yes.
R - And then she did the dusting t’normal way of dusting but she used to have a feather brush and all which seemed to be one o't doings that’d come in handy if she wanted to thump me now and again.
Not so bad it she were hitting you with a feather brush. Was there anything that she paid special attention to when she were cleaning the house ?
R- Well…
You know, any piece that ...
R – Furniture? Oh aye the piano and grandfather clock.
Any idea where the grandfather clock came from?
R - Oh, he’d been handed down for years. It were one of Old Pollard’s ... what do you call it?
On your father's side?
R - On me father’s side.
Were your father the oldest son do you know?
R– Yes.
Yes, because there used to be a tradition in this area, and I know that the clock was handed down to the oldest son.
R - but he had older sisters.
Yes but it… It did use to be the eldest son. And did you, and .. well, did you ever do any jobs in the house? Did you have any regular job that you had to do?
(550)
R – No, sometimes I had to mangle for me mum, turn t’mangle or feed an hen or two which we had on this ground at t’back.
Yes, you had a few hens out the back. Did you have any jobs to do outside the house you know like running errands or gardening apart from feeding the hens?
R – No, we never run .. we’d no garden at t’front Stanley, it were just flags and …you know.
Yes but I mean at the back you know?
R – No, we didn't have no garden at t’back.
You didn’t garden it no.
R – No, it were grass which were made into a cricket pitch.
Did your father do any work in the house?
R - Oh no, nothing at all.
Nothing at all. No.
R - Me father were one, as soon as he’d finished his jobs he’d have happen an hour’s sleep after tea and then he’d wander across to the Red Lion, which were only about ten yards from where we lived.
That’s it.
R - And that were his regular routine six nights in t’week, but he never went at Sunday.
He never went at Sunday.
R - I remember my mum used to say “I’ve never seen him come home drunk.” He’d come home a bit fresh, but never drunk.
Did the family own the house?
R- Yes.
Yes, have you any idea how much they paid for it when they bought it?
R- I haven't a clue Stanley.
Haven't a clue. Did your mother ever do anything, any work in the house to earn a bit of money for herself? You know?
R - No.
Nothing on the side. Do you remember if any other women in the neighbourhood did anything like that, you know, like taking in washing, or minding …
R – No, somebody might have looked after a child or two you know? Yes..
Yes, for those who were working at the mill, yes child minding.
R- Some of ‘em that lived up there’d be off out with the children at half past six to go in you know? Start work at seven.
Yes, in the mill, yes. Is that house still standing?
R- Yes.
And what did your mother cook on?
R- Gas stove.
That was outside in the greenhouse, glasshouse, glasshouse, yes.
R- In the glasshouse.
Did she have that gas stove when she first went there?
R- When we moved in it were there.
Yes. Can you remember anything about it?
R - Not a thing Stanley.
Ah .. And she made her own bread in the oven.
R - She made her own bread.
And how much did she make at a time?
R - I should say me mother baked every two days so as it were nearly always fresh broad, you know?
Yes. Did she bake cakes?
R - She used to bake sweet cakes. Yes.
What sort
R - Well, she did her own, you know like ... I should say they'd be cream cakes Stanley, you know? Baked in a … what's that there? six inch tin or eight inch tin and then put one on top of the other and make it into a great sandwich.
(600)
(30 Min)
How about fruit cake, seed cake and what not
R - Well she'd make currant cakes you know, just ordinary, t’same mixture but they'd have currants in and put in little bun tins and…
Pies .. ?
R – No, she used to make a lot of Eccles cakes or jam pasties and..
How about jams, marmalade?
R – No, she never made owt like that Stanley.
Pickles?
R - No.
Homemade wine ?
R - No.
Did she ever make any of, any of her own medicines, you know ...
R - Oh give over, she was a big, big believer in t’herb job, brewing this up and brewing that and …
Oh, yes, yes.
R – Holland’s Dutch Drops, she didn’t make them, but they could buy ‘em and they 'd cure all.
What were those? ..Holland?
R- What they used to call Holland Dutch, Holland Dutch Drops in them days.
And what were them for?
R - All aches and bloody pains you know. Same with Fenning’s Fever Cure, used to be all t'go, that were always in t’medicine cupboard. And then she’d be on with the Nipbone if I had any bruises.
How did she get them herbs, did she go out and gather them herself?
R - She used to go out and gather a few aye. There used to be old herb books in them days and so she'd go out and…
And what did you usually have for breakfast?
R - Well that's something which we never had, we never had breakfast.
So you didn't bother with anything in the morning or … ?
R- We didn't bother with anything, Stanley.
Nothing at all?
Nothing at all, only a drink
Drink and straight on to school?
R - .. which was tea.
Tea, yes. What did you have for dinner?
R- Sometimes we had nothing. I’m going back to school with just a tea cake in me hand.
Aye. How about Sunday dinner?
R - Sunday dinner? Well we’d a roast you know, a meal then a proper dinner, Yorkshire pudding, meat…
Every Sunday, Yorkshire pudding?
R - Not every Sunday.
No. What were the usual meat?
R- Beef.
Beef.
R – Aye, me mother didn’t like smallish ..mutton or,.. tha knows lamb, didn't like, didn't like mutton, beef, lamb. Pork were a bit of a favourite.
Aye, crackling.
R- Crackling.
Aye. So during the week you wouldn't have so much for tea?
R- Well, we’d a big tea, and then we were always late in going to bed and we always used to have a decent supper.
Aye. Yes, what would you have for tea say, you know, what would you call a good tea?
R - Fish.
Fish?
R - Fish, and potatoes and funny enough we’d always a chip pan, what we call a chip pan now, such as that. Or sometimes, I can, I can remember
(650)
odd times we used to have a damn big dish in the middle of the table with mussels in or cockles and you'd have a basin full of mussels, one of cockles and then you’d have another basin to throw your empties in, yes.
It, there seems to have been quite a lot of fish and cockles and mussels eaten then.
R – Well, they were cheap enough Stanley, weren't they?
Yes. And .. did somebody come round selling fish and .. ?
R - Well, they used to come round on an old horse and cart. We used to have a fellow called Laurie Nichol come round, he used to have a wooden leg, and he used to sell a lot of this. And we used to have a bull mastiff and that were its favourite do to get at, try to get hold of his wooden leg when he used to have It stuck out on't cart'
He didn’t by any chance have cats following him round did he.
R – No, I couldn't say.
No, have you any idea where that fellow got his fish from?
R - I haven't a clue.
No, most likely coming by rail, wouldn’t it?
R - 1t’d come .. yes.
Yes, to the station yes. And your supper, you say that very often you had a good, good supper before bed time, what would you have?
R – Chips, fish, peas … we’d … usually it'd be chips fish or sometime me mother would make a meat and potato pie. You see, they'd more time after, say round about three o’clock at the afternoon.
That's it yes. Your mother’d normally help your father with the baking would she?
R – Yes, me mother and father did it.
Yes so .. that's the reason why many a time you didn't get a dinner because she had other things to do.
R- Other things to do in the bakehouse.
(35 Min)
SCG/09 October 2002
5507 words.