THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON JUNE 19TH 1978 IN THE ENGINE HOUSE AT BANCROFT. THE INFORMANT IS JIM POLLARD, WEAVING MANAGER AND THE INTERVIEWER IS STANLEY GRAHAM.
Now you've already said that you had a garden outside but you didn't garden it, you didn't cultivate it. So you wouldn't have, did you have an allotment?
R- No..
Did you have any hens, pigs, ducks, goats, owt like that?
R – We’d about ten hens, a cock, sometimes we might have a few pigeons. I once had a goat but it stunk so I had to shift it.
And what did you do with the eggs?
R – Well, me mother used to bake with ‘em and we used to eat them, fry ‘em.
Yes, that’s it.
R- Boil ‘em.
Yes. And you’d, if any of the hens went off a bit you'd…
R - Well you see, it all worked in with what we had left out of the oatmeal. It meant food for the hens, mixing it up, hot mash.
That’s it, so the waste out of the bakehouse went to the hens.
R - Went to the hens and we got the eggs. When they'd finished laying, finished their span of life, that were it, we'd get another ten.
Did you have a pudding every day, at tea time with your tea?
R - Yes. Favourite were, they used to have these here jam rolls, in rags, and steam them.
That's it, suet, Yes,
R- Suet. Or sometimes we’d have what we used to call ‘Eve’s Pudding”. Made out of, nearly a cake mixture with apples in it, at the bottom, with custard.
How much milk did you get each day, can you remember?
R- About two points. We used to get it at the farm, out of the tins, ladle it into the jug.
Lading tin, aye. Did your father ever get any for baking?
R- No. What we used to make the milk cakes were buttermilk.
Did you get that off the same farmer?
R- No we didn’t. We used to go down to Booth Bridge at Thornton. Sometimes I’d walk it. I had a tin on me back, strapped on.
Aye. A back kit.
R- Back kit. I’d go to Booth Bridge and they made butter there.
Were it Wilkinson’s?
R- Wilkinson’s. It’s Wilkinson’s yet. Run by the sons. And I’d go there and collect this buttermilk. And sometimes you get a milkcake and it might have a funny, distorted in the middle but that’d only be because there was a bit of butter left in the buttermilk.
How often did you go for the buttermilk?
R- Once a week.
Once a week. And did your mother ever buy butter, margarine, dripping, any of these?
R- Butter. We never had margarine. Never.
Why not? Do you know?
R- I don’t know. We never had margarine in that house.
Aye. Do you think perhaps your mother had something against it? Or your father?
R - I don’t know. I haven’t a clue but we never….
Never had dripping?
R - No dripping,
No dripping?
R- No.
So your mother baked with butter.
R- Me mother baked with butter.
What fruit did you eat most often?
R – Apples, bananas. Not a lot of oranges, they didn’t seem to do for her, but apples or pears and we used to eat a lot of plums when it were plum time you know?
Yes. Where did you get your fruit from?
R- Greengrocers used to come round with a cart, some of them used to come from Colne, what you call Cheap Jack. There used to be Harry Hart from Colne. And it, Hart, it used to be surprising how much cheaper his fruit were than what you could get it for in….
Hart? Aye ... what were the usual fellow that come round Earby?
R- Well mostly it were the Co-op greengrocery van that used to come round.
When you say a van, was that a motor van?
R- Well no. It were built up like a van but it were pulled by a horse.
Aye, that's it, something like an old milk float.
R - It were like a van that were cut out to have his fruit on display you know.
Yes. What vegetable did you buy most often?
R- Potatoes
Apart from potatoes?
R- Carrots, Cauliflowers, not a lot of cabbage.
(150)
(5 Min)
There’s a list of foods here, and I’ll just tell you what they were. Can you tell me whether you had then every week or once a month or very rarely or never? Bananas?
R- Every week.
Rabbit?
R – No.
Never?
R- Never.
Fried food?
R - Fried food? What’s that?
You know, fried food, stuff fried in the frying pan. You know, fried bacon, chips, owt like that. Anything fried in hot fat.
R - Bacon, yes bacon, chips
Aye .. Fish?
R – Fish.
What sort of fish were it usually?
R- Well we used to got hake, halibut, plaice. We never liked cod or haddock.
Must have been well off. They'd be dearer fish then wouldn’t they?
R - They were dearer fish but they seemed more wholesome you know?
Yes, cheese?
R- No, we didn’t eat a lot cheese, mostly if we got a little bit, it wouldn’t be so much, it’d always be Cheshire.
Aye . How did you eat that? How did it usually get eaten, do you know?
R- Well, we used to eat it with pickles, and…
That’s it, yes. Cow Heel, tripe, trotters, black pudding?
R - Yes we used to have it, and we used to have a bit of tripe but it always had to be seam with no fat on. And then me mother used to get cow heels and she used to make potted meat with cow heel.
Aye. Eggs obviously, you had your own eggs. Tomato?
R- Tomatoes when they were in season. And a fellow that lived higher up Red Lion Street used to have a lot of them greenhouses.
(200)
Can you remember his name?
R - Lodge. Louis Lodge.
Louis Lodge. Grapefruit?
R- No.
Sheep’s head?
R – No.
Did you ever have tinned food?
R – Very seldom Stanley.
If you did have it, what sort was it?
R- Peaches.
Peaches. Were they halves or slices?
R- Halves.
You must have been well off! Can you ever remember having tinned food and it was bad?
R- No.
Aye. Apart from peaches then, your mother wouldn’t like other tinned foods?
R - No, we used to have other food when they wore in season such as strawberries and …
Yes, that's it.
R- A few raspberries and then me mother used to bake a lot of bilberry pies and goose bob pie or rhubarb pies.
Where would you get fruit like that, you know, would you get it? Did you get it from a shop or off the cart or ... bilberrying, do you know, did you go picking or what.
R - Well you got a lot of folk going picking them and then selling them to make a bit of spare money.
Now then …
R- Same as stuff such as watercress. That’s what you’d have a lot of.
Yes, well, somebody that was very hard up, and stuff like that was in season round about. They’d go off and say pick bilberries on the moor and then come back and sell what they picked round the town.
R - Come back, that's it, and sell what they picked, that made them a bit of beer money.
Yes. Was it usually the men that did that?
R- Mostly the men.
Aye .. What, out of work or what?
Out of work.
(250)
For beer money.
R - For beer money.
Yes. Did you drink tea, coffee, cocoa?
R- Never coffee, [we drank]tea. Never cocoa.
Yes .. Never cocoa. What did you have for Christmas dinner?
R – We’d always a turkey.
Always…
R – Always.
Where did that come from?
R – Well, it come off a farmer.
Same one every year or …
R- Yes.
Who were that?
R – Wilkinson.
Booth Bridge?
R - Booth Bridge.
What was your favourite food when you were a lad?
R- When I were a lad? Well me favourite meal would be chips and halibut and some fresh garden peas.
(10 Min)
Was there ever a time when, can you ever remember a time when the family were hard up?
R - Well I didn't seem to notice it, Stanley.
And obviously your father’d be, all the meals your father had'd be at home because he was working at home ... Did your father always have the same food as the rest of the fondly, or did he ... ?
R - He used to have the same, well everybody used to have the same food Stanley.
That's it yes. Who usually did the shopping in your family.
R- Me mother.
How often did she do it.
R - About … happen twice a week, but she used to have a lot… You see, with carts coming round you didn't, you didn’t need to do the same shopping Stanley.
How about meat?
R- Meat. Yes, we used to get that at Edmondson’s which is at the bottom of Riley Street Earby, He used to have a butcher’s shop there.
(300)
And how about the groceries?
R- Well, t’grocery, we used to go to the Co-op for the divi. You might get half a crown in the pound in them days.
So they were members.
R- We were members at the Co-op.
Yes. How much were it, being a member then, can you remember? You had to have so much in didn't you.
R- You'd to have a pound share in t’Co-op in them days.
That's it. Was there a market in Earby? You know, an open market?
R- I can’t remember one Stanley.
No. Was there any difference would you think, in… did you have a local corner shop?
R – Yes, it were a house shop, which was in number 49.
Red Lion Street.
R- Red Lion street.
Who kept that, can you remember?
R - A Mrs Eastwood, Lois Eastwood they called her, and she'd a son and a daughter, and Vic Eastwood, the son, he were keen on the Isle of Man TT.
So what did she sell at that shop.
R- Oh sweets, a little bit of butter, sugar, tea, coffee, washing powder and all such stuff as that.
Yes. Donkey stones?
R – No, we’d to go [for them] to the shop which were… It’d happen be about 37 Red Lion Street, which were a bigger shop you know, and they’d sell bacon, and you'd get donkey stones there.
Who kept that shop?
(350)
R – Slater’s, they called them Slater’s and they did a bit of their own baking and all, such as bread and tea cakes, th'old, what you could call the old type fancy bun you know with t' middle cut out and a bit of this here butter cream in.
That’s it. So that’d be oven baking, yes?
R - That were oven baking, yes.
And would you say there was any difference in the prices that they charged in the little corner shops down on Red Lion Street and say the Co-op?
R – No.
And did the shops on Red Lion Street, would they give credit?
R- Slater’s wouldn’t, but Mrs Eastwood would.
Yes. So if somebody were hard up they could …
R - They could strap.
Yes. They'd have a …
R - They'd have a book, and could cope. They called it strapping in them days. So she’d have it booked down in a small book. Happen for Mrs Taylor, owed so much. Some were never straight, as soon as they got paid from the mills at Wednesday they’d go and straighten that off and then she .. like, suppose it were Mrs Taylor, she'd be at it again. So she is actually never straight, she is still owing money, she's always a week behind.
And a tied customer, yes. Can you remember ... was there a pawn shop in Earby?
R- Well, you could call it a pawn shop, there were Levi’s at Earby, a Jew. Isaac Levi.
Yes. And would he take pledges, you know, take stuff in and …
R- He’d take stuff off you, yes.
Give money on ‘em and then you could go and get it redeemed?
R- And give money and then you could go and get it redeemed if you wanted.
Yes. And whereabouts was that?
R- That were on Victoria Road.
(400)
Yes. Whereabouts, any idea?
R- Oh, what do you call it? There’s a bank at top now isn’t there?
Yes.
R - And then two houses, and there’d be the shop which is Banham’s cycles which used to be Simmonds, electrician after Levi finished with it. Well he used to be in theer did Isaac Levi, and he used to sell furniture and linoleum and …
Can you remember anybody .. anywhere round about, lending money for interest?
R – It’d be Isaac Levi.
He'd lend money as well?
R- Yes.
Aye. Any idea what sort of interest he’d charge?
R – No. I haven’t a clue Stanley.
No. Any idea what he charged on the pledges?
R - Not a thing.
No. So, obviously your family'd never use the pawn shop?
R- No. They used to go there and buy furniture because he kept a good quality, he used to keep some good stuffed furniture.
(20 Min)
Yes. Was that new or stuff that he’d taken in pledges?
R – New.
So he’d be the furniture shop as well as being the pawn shop. Did you know if any of the neighbours used the pawn shop?
R- Alice Green.
Her with the newspaper?
R- With the newspapers.
And the money lender, do you know anyone that used the money lender?
R- I don’t Stanley.
How about Provident cheques, can you remember?
R- A man used to come round with these Provident cheques. And you could go to Isaac Levi who were on Provident. And then there were… what were the other shops in Earby? You could take them cheques to them shops and get what you wanted you know, and then they'd have collectors coming.
That's it. What did they use to call the collector in Earby, can you remember? Have you any idea what they used to call him?
R - No I don’t know Stanley I don’t know.
And had you a name, did they have a name for him?
R- They used to say "The Man from the Provident’s coming."
That’s it. ‘The Man from the Provident’ No, the reason why I ask, some people call ‘em ‘The Tally Man’ you know.
R- Yes. We used to say ‘Man from Provident’.
Did your mother ever use Provident cheques?
R- No.
Have you any idea how much it’d cost your mother, you know, how much housekeeping money your mother would have for a week?
(450)
R- I never knew what me father gave me mother for housekeeping.
Is there anything that you used to eat when you were young, which you can't get now?
R- Well, I can't get such as fish that I prefer, which is too dear now, such as halibut, white hake. So what we have to do now is to go on to a bit of plaice, we change about, plaice and haddock, which really and truly, haddock I detest.
So you think really that fish is dearer now, compared to what it was then, even taking into account the difference in the value of money?
R - Yes
So in them days you'd say that fish was a fairly cheap food.
R- Yes well we always had .. we weren't a very well off family Stanley, we were a careful family in the main.
That's it, yes. You'll not remember anything about the first world war, obviously because you weren’t old enough.
R - Weren’t old enough you see no. But why me father came out of the mill and that was because he was gassed during the first world war.
And he was away at the war and he was gassed?
R- Yes.
That’d be chlorine gas though, he’d be bad with his chest.
R- Terrible chest, that eventually was what helped him to die at an early age.
Yes. How old was he when he died?
R- Fifty-five.
Fifty-five, that wasn’t old was it? Did you, did he, when he was gassed, was he invalided out or did he finish the war?
R - He finished the war.
He finished the war even though he’d been gassed. Yes, my father was the same. So he’d be prone to bronchitis.
R – Aye, it were a terrible cough. He finished, he died with what they called in them days ‘Silent Pneumonia’.
Yes. And do you know if he over drew a disability pension through being gassed?
R - Not a penny.
Never drew anything. And when he did eventually die, it was never put down as the results of war injury? Your mother never got anything then?
(500)
R - No, not a cent.
No, did your mother make any of the family’s clothes?
R – Well, it might be a laugh. She used to make me all me vests, wool knit vests.
She used to knit them?
R- She used to knit them yes. Apart from that she'd make me an odd shirt sometimes you know.
Was there any particular reason for her knitting wool vests for you, you know, did she regard you an a delicate child?
R- Well I wouldn't say I were a delicate child, but she made certain that I were warm.
Aye, that's it. Did she have a sewing machine?
R- Yes.
Do you know what sort it was?
R - A Singer.
A Singer treadle ?
R- Treadle, two feet on and going like the clappers
And did she mend your clothes?
R- Yes.
Was she good at mending clothes?
R- Quite good with patching.
Yes. How about darning?
R - She didn’t like darning socks but she did it.
She did it, mushroom?
R- Yes. And a biggish needle.
Biggish needle, yes. Did you have any passed on clothes?
R- Never.
No. And so your clothes would be bought. Where were they bought?
R- At t'Co-op or at Maynard’s at Earby.
Yes, Maynard’s, it isn't long since he went out of business is it, the old fellow? I can remember going to Maynard’s, yes. ' What happened to your old clothes?
R-I think me old uns would be old uns Stanley ‘cause I were a bit of a rough un.
So what, rag and bone chap?
R - Rag and bone chap. She’d give stuff to t’rag and bone chap to get donkey stones for the steps.
What did you wear for school?
R – Grey, short flannel trousers. I wear , what do you mean, school? At t’beginning or when I got .. going up into twelve, thirteen?
When you, when you first went to school
(550)
R - When I first went to school? Oh, like a tight little, tight short pants, and a jersey and some clogs, small clogs, and I can remember going, which I shamed with, a blooming wool scarf wrapped round me neck and fastened at the back with a safety pin.
Were your clogs ironed?
R - Ironed. I used to get them done at t’Co-op, Earby Co-op, and a fellow, called Lord used to be t’clogger there.
What was his Christian name? Can you remember?
R - Can't remember. But one of his sons lives in Barlick now, Frank Lord, he used to play cricket with Barlick. His father did all the clogging at Earby.
What sort of irons were they, were they ordinary irons, or Colne irons or what?
R - Ordinary irons, ordinary irons.
Could you get Colne irons in Earby?
R - What's Colne irons?
You know, haven't you ever seen Colne irons, they’re thick irons.
R - These were thick uns. So they lasted longer.
Yes. Were the irons, the clog irons that you used to get, had they a groove down them?
R- In't middle, in't middle of the iron, he used to groove them all round and then he used to knock nails in. Nearly like a blooming [horse] shoe they were.
Yea. No, Colne irons are a lot thicker. And this clogger, Lord, at the Co-op, did he ever make clogs?
R- Yes, out of a wood block, from a wood block.
He made him own soles?
R- He made his own soles, and then he shaped his own leather.
Yes. Did you actually see him cutting his own soles? Or did he buy the soles in, already cut? Do you understand what I mean?
R- I’ve seen him, I’ve seen him make a pair of clogs out of a block.
Yes, that’s it. Did he use a knife on a bench that were hinged on?
R- It were hinged on in like a loop at that side and it were a big thing and he’d be ...
That's right, that's right, yes.
R- It reminded you of a scythe at one end.
Yes that’s right Jim. Now that was when you first went to school. Now when you got a bit older at school, what did you wear then?
R- Grey flannel trousers and a shirt, but I still wore clogs.
Yes, still wore clogs.
R- Because we couldn't afford a ball to play in the school yard, so we used to kick a stone about for footballing.
Aye, did you have any shoes?
R- I had shoes yes, and I used to got them at t’Co-op, but me best pair were made at Newton Pickle’s at Kelbrook. He used to be the shoemaker there.
Yes. When you say Newton do you mean Johnny Pickles’s brother?
(600)
R - No. I don't know whether they are related to Newton Pickles.
Yes they are.
R - Are they?
Yes, that’s why Johnny in buried at Kelbrook.
R - Kelbrook is it?
Pickles were cloggers at Kelbrook and his brother [Johnny’s]was the clogger.
R – Well, this were Newton, and sometimes he’d be off on a drinking spree for a month.
Yes, that's what.
R- Take his hook. There used to be about six of them. And every twelve months they used to have this month off, and away they'd go and nobody knew where they were. So somebody's shoes would be happen waiting to have a pair of soles and heels and they’d be without shoes for a month.
And what kind of hat did you wear, did you wear a hat?
R - A cap, I used to wear a cap.
Aye, with a badge on.
A - With a badge at t’front
Aye. What were that?
R - Alder Hill School
Alder Hill School. What did your father wear for work?
R - For work?
Yes.
(30 min)
R - Well he used to wear an old pair of pants, an old Union shirt, and to hold his pants up he’d have a big thick leather belt, and that's all he wore in the bakehouse.
Did he ever hit you with the belt?
R – No.
No. What did your mother wear for housework?
R – Well, she’d wear a dress but she always had what they called a pinny on in them days.
If she went out, would she ever go out with the pinny on?
R - No, she’d always take her pinny off.
Always?
R - Always.
And did your mother over wear a shawl?
R – Never, I've never seen her in a shawl. I remember me grandmother having a shawl.
Yes. So did your mother ever wear a hat?
R – Yes.
Did the always wear a hat when she went out or would she go out bare-headed any time?
R- No.
Always wore a hat.
R - Always wore a hat.
What kind of hat was it?
R- Well, sommat with a wide brim. Well, they'd be like a velour hat. You know, with a bit, up at the front and a bit of a feather in it.
And your father’d never mend the family’s shoes?
R - No.
No. How many outfits did you have at one time?
R - I had a suit which were blue, pin striped, short pants, and then I just had me flannels and doings for school. I used to have a blue shirt to go with me suit, but I only wore that on special occasions.
(650)
Tie?
R - Pretty seldom I had a tie on, unless relations were coming at Sunday and I had to get dressed up.
The blue shirt you had; were it collar attached or loose collar?
R - Collar attached.
Aye. Did you ever have a shirt when you were a lad, with a loose collar?
R- Yes, with a button so far and a back stud and a front stud.
That's it, yes.
R - And me father used to wear these here collars that went to the laundry. Hard, stiff uns. And same as he didn't feel right up to it, he’d just keep his union shirt on that he’d had on in the bakehouse and put one of these white collars on with the back stud and the front stud.
That's it. They weren't wing collars were they?
R- They were collars, they were rounded at the edges.
That’s it, yes. How often did you have clean clothes?
R - Every week, which were after bath night, Friday night.
That’s it. Have you over heard of anybody ever being sewn in for the winter? Have you ever come across that?
R - What's that, sewn in?
Yes. Their clothes sewn up before the winter so that they didn't catch cold.
R – No.
They never used to change ’em, no. Did your mother belong to any sort of a savings club for clothing and boots and shoes. Anything like that?
R - No.
No. Can you remember any change, noticing any change in the way people dressed as you were growing up? Was there … whilst you were growing up you know, in between first going to school and starting work, did any changes in dress strike you at all?
R - Long pants.
In what way?
R- Well, when you got going on to fifteen you felt a bit of a fool with your short pants, so your mother started saving up to buy you a pair of long pants to go, you know…
That’s it. And how about changes in dress in other people? You know, say in the women, or anything like that, did you notice any changes happening you know, such as skirts getting shorter?
R- Well ... but I noticed that when I were going about seventeen with the lasses that they were getting their skirts shorter and so forth.
When you were very young, the first thing that you can… when you can first start remembering these things, would it he fairly common to see people in long skirts. You know, the older women .. In long skirts.
R- Older women? Like me grandmother always had a long skirt.
Yes. And by a long skirt, you mean a long skirt down to the floor?
R- Almost down to the floor aye, and then she'd have a pinny on top of that.
Yes. And would it be fairly common to see women of that age on the streets in Earby then in long skirts?
R- Not a lot of them Stanley.
Not a lot. How about shawls?
R – No, you'd only get them that were, I should say going up seventy, seventy-five to eighty, wearing the shawl. And they did, even if they sat outside their house. They'd have their shawl over their shoulders or over their head. And instead of bringing a chair out they’d bring a buffet out.
When you were having your meals at home, did everybody sit down together?
R- Sat down together. Always.
And you'd all eat the same [food].
R- And we’d all eat the same.
Yes. And did you always have a tablecloth?
R – Yes, always. No such thing as linoleum on it, you had a tablecloth.
Yes. It was always a proper tablecloth.
R - And they'd bits of crocheting on which me mother’d done.
Did your parents, you know, were they at all strict about you at the table. The way you ate your meals?
(35 Min)
R - Oh I hadn't to talk and I never drunk until I finished eating me food.
That's the sort of thing, yes.
R - I had never to talk at the table.
And how about eating with your mouth shut? You know, how about eating with your mouth open, did nobody ever pull you up for anything like that?
R- No.
Would you say that your parents were strict with you, say about times for coming in or.. you know? If you were swearing or being cheeky or owt like that?
R - One thing, cheek, I never had to give any cheek.
What happened it you did?
R - Well me father wouldn't hit me but me mother would.
Aye. What with?
R - Feather brush mainly.
Clip round the ear happen if it were bad?
R – Well, she’d give me sharp [tap], yes.
Aye. Did the family ...
R - Like same with that, when you're talking about… I knew how far to go with the look on me father’s face. I knew how far I’d gone, and that were time to finish..
That's it. Can you remember anybody ever saying grace before meals at home?
(750)
R - No. And nobody went [to church] I never went to Sunday School, and I can never remember me mother going in .. Oh, I’m saying that, well me mother sometimes used to go to the Spiritualists. She liked to go to that.
Spiritualists?
R – Spiritualists. And she used to come home and say “Well, so and so’s told me this.” “Don't bother me with that" me father used to say.
If you had a birthday was it different from any other day?
R- No, I had no cake, birthday cake, or owt like that, but…
How about presents?
R- But presents, I'd always presents, even from relations.
Aye, visitors?
R- No.
And how about Christmas, how did you spend Christmas?
R - Well Christmas were always...Christmas dinner was always spent at home, when me half sister came and the other relations. And then the following day we can go to either me sister’s or some of the other relation. Me sister’d be at Cottontree and then me aunts were at Nelson, two of them.
So your sister at Cottontree would be living with one of your aunties.
R - No me sister at Cottontree'd be married then.
What year were she married?
R - She were married when she were seventeen.
SCG/14 October 2002
5217 words.