Tape recorded on 21st June 1978 at Vicarage Road, Barnoldswick. The informant is Newton Pickles and the interviewer is Stanley Graham. The numbers in brackets are digital Uher count. ‘R’ denotes respondent. Additions in [] are comments by SCG.
So, you were born in 1916?
R-Nineteen sixteen.
Where were you born?
R-35 Federation Street, Barnoldswick.
How many years did you live at that house Newton?
R-Till I was 23.
So that would be 1939.
R-Yes, 1939, definitely.
Did you live in any other houses when young?
R-No.
Where was your father born?
R-Kelbrook [1886. SG]
Do you know what address?
R-Main Street, It’s a house that stands on its own, it were a shop, a cobbler’s shop.
And where was your mother born?
R-Carleton [1885. SG]
Why is it she’d come from Carleton to Kelbrook?
R-She didn’t come from Carleton to Kelbrook, she came from Carleton to Earby and supposedly they got work in the mills at Earby easier than what they would at Carleton, there’d only be two mills in Carleton.
How many brothers and sisters did you have?
R-One sister.
Where did you come in the family, were you the oldest?
R-Eldest.
Eldest. What’s your sister’s name?
R-Dorothy.
When was she born?
R-27th of October 1927.
1927, and of course Dorothy died.
R-Dorothy died when she was 49. [August 2 1976]
When you were a child can you remember any relations living in the house with you?
R-Never any relations living in the house with us, no.
Any lodgers?
R-No.
No lodgers, what was your father’s job when you were born?
R-He were foreman for Henry Brown and Sons.
At Barnoldswick?
R-Barnoldswick.
Did he have any other jobs before that?
R-By what I gather he went to Victory V at Nelson, stayed there one day as foreman maintenance engineer and then got a job at Burnley Ironworks and stayed there exactly one year.
That’s it; you talked about that on the last tape.
R-Yes on the other tape. Yes.
What was your mother’s job?
R-She were a weaver.
Before she married she was a weaver?
R-She was a weaver me mother yes.
Where?
R-I couldn’t tell you at Earby Stanley I wouldn’t know. It’d be one of the mills, it’d be Victoria probably. But when she came to Barlick she weaved at what were called Pummers at Wellhouse, which were Windles, they had 400 looms at Wellhouse. And she wove, she wove there up to me being born I think.
How old was your father when he died?
R-Eighty four.
And that was in 1969 wasn’t it?
R-Sixty nine yes. [9 September 1969. SG]
So your father’d be born in 1884?
R-1884? 1885.
Did your mother work outside the home after she was married?
R-Yes.
What hours would she work while she was weaving?
R-Oh she’d work from seven o’clock in the morning, it started at seven then. I should say from seven till half past five, that were t’normal doing but I’ve heard me father talk about walking it from Kelbrook before he were married to start at Browns at half past six, so when she were at Earby they’d probably start at half past six.
How old was your mother when she died?
R-Seventy eight.
What year was that? Can you remember?
R-I can’t off hand Stanley, I can’t remember. I were in Earby at Victoria Mill on nights for them when she died. I know she died in Keighley Hospital, she were only in half a day but I can’t remember the date off hand. [19 February 1963. SG]
Did any of the family leave Barlick at all? Did Dorothy ever leave?
R-No.
How many bedrooms did you have at Federation Street?
R-We had two bedrooms and an attic.
What other rooms were there in the house besides the bedrooms?
R-Bathroom, kitchen, living room and front room.
You had a bathroom?
R-Yes, we’d a bathroom.
Can you remember when that was put in?
R-It were when it were built. Me father bought that house new just after they were married cause they lived at Green End at Earby for a little while so I take it as 63 years since Stanley.
63 years, That would be about 1915?
R-Well I reckon he went into that house some time in 1914 because he were living at Barlick when’t war broke out I do know that.
Can you remember any of the furniture at Federation Street?
R-Yes, we’d a lovely piano and a whitewood-topped table that she scrubbed every day. Yes, we were never really badly off for furniture like. Oh, a wall clock, a bit bigger than that, [points to clock on wall about 18” high] but it doesn’t show on the tape recorder! And we’d a suite in the front room, one of these posh types, the old fashioned ones with ball and claw legs. I can remember it being pale blue with flowers in, I can remember that, they were right straight up back chairs and we only got to sit on them like at chapel anniversary jobs you know when they brought everything out for the tea and that. Aye, that were when you got to sit on them.
Did you use the parlour for anything else?
R-No, it were rare we went in, happen at Christmas.
Which room did you have your meals in?
R-In t’living room, dining room.
Where did your mother do the cooking?
R-In the kitchen, little kitchen about six feet square with a stone floor.
Where did she do the washing?
R-Outside, more or less outside, we’d just a, down the yard there were a coalhouse and t’toilet and there were a space there and me father boarded it over, and the wringing machine and the dolly tub were in there. It were hand driven were t’wringing machine.
Can you remember, did you have a special bath night?
R-Oh I can’t say so, I fancy I were dumped in every time I came in more or less, when I’d been in t’Butts Beck and that sort of thing.
And you said the lavatory was outside?
R-Outside, tippler type.
A tippler. And the house would have hot water?
R-Yes it had piped water and a back boiler for hot water.
You had hot running water as well?
R-Yes we had, yes.
Did you have a stair carpet?
R-Yes, we always had a stair carpet and brass rods, yes.
The brass rods, your mother’d polish them?
R-Aye, me mother polished them and me father used to play hell when he had to take all the screws out to get them out for her for t’spring cleaning job.
Do you remember the neighbours having a stair carpet?
(200)
R-Oh yes, I were mates with Bob Fort from being a little lad and they always had a stair carpet on, I remember them.
What other floor coverings did you have on the floors in the rest of the house?
R-There were lin, linoleum and a square carpet in the middle.
Carpet in the dining room?
R-Aye and a peg rug or two we had, me mother used to like making peg rugs out of odd bits of old coats you know.
Did you have curtains or blinds?
R-No we’d curtains and in the living room there was a white roller blind, I never forget that because me father says one day, Let’s take that down Sarah, it’s getting a bit yellow. And he took it down and that were the end of that. And curtains were on a rod and he says to me one day, By gum, that’d make a good bow and arrow, it’s willow and it were hexagon.
Did you make a bow and arrow?
R-No we never got down to that, I left home before I got me hands on it to make a bow and arrow.
Did the neighbours have curtains?
R-Oh aye, the neighbours had curtains.
Can you remember anyone not having curtains in the street?
R-I can’t, no I can’t.
How about donkey stoning the doorsteps?
R-Oh, scrubbed them.
Scrubbed them?
R-Scouring stones, donkey stones. Yellow stones and white stones, there were a lot of them kicking about.
Did your mother do the kerb as well as the doorstep?
R-No, me mother used to do the front step, garden, little bit of garden at the front, garden step and back door step and back yard step.
How was the house lit?
R-Gas.
When did you first have electric light?
R-As soon as ever it came into being me father says we’re having this electric, this electric stuff in.
1929 electric came in or shortly after that.
R-It could have been 1929, yes, because the engineers shop had electric as soon as they could you know, they wired it themselves and put a dynamo in as soon as they came into being.
So they’d have light in the engineers shop?
R-Long before we had it at home.
Perhaps they’d have DC in?
R-Yes, it were DC, 110 volts DC,
And when the electric company first started up can you remember what that current was, have you any idea?
R-It were 240 volts AC they started with here but Colne way and Nelson and Burnley it were all DC I don’t know, ours would come out of Yorkshire.
Yes, I think it did down here.
R-It did, it came out of Yorkshire.
They’d have Yorkshire Electricity or something?
R-No, every town had their own company hadn’t they in those days, if you had a Council it were your own company but you bought it off them. Barlick owned their own electric company like they had their own gas company.
How did you dispose of rubbish?
R-In’t dustbin or on the fire.
The dustbin men?
R-Aye, the dustbin men, yes.
How did your mother do the washing?
R-With a hand wringer, a dolly tub, a scrubbing board and a posser.
How often did she do it?
R-Once a week on Monday mornings.
Always Monday morning?
R-It was as much as your life was worth to disturb the washing!
How long did it take her?
Oh, she’d generally finished by dinnertime and they’d all be round the fire on the clothes maiden and then we used to play hell because we couldn’t get near the fire.
And if it were a good day?
R-It’d be outside, drying outside on a line in the back yard.
How did she iron it Newton?
R-She’d two flat irons and she warmed them on the gas oven. Me father bought her one of these new fangled gas irons and she wouldn’t use it.
That’s interesting.
R-Did she ever have…
R-A charcoal one?
Either charcoal or else..
R-No she didn’t Stanley.
Ordinary flat irons.
What do you call the other iron that you put a block in?
R-Aye, you warmed a block and put it in but these were just ordinary irons that she warmed in a slipper you know. We had a gas oven, she didn’t warm them on the fire, she warmed them on the gas oven, she always had a burner lit Then, when they were warm she put them in a little slipper which was always clean and polished.
R-And me father bought her one of these new fangled gas irons with a pipe on it and he’d put a tap on the kitchen wall for her and she wouldn’t use it, she said it were dangerous.
She might have been right. What can you remember most clearly about washing day?
R-Well, what I can remember most clearly about washing day were all the wet washing about. We went in for dinner and we didn’t make a reight lot of it and coming home from school and it were all hanging about. We had a clothes rack in the house as well, rope and pulleys, like a set of rope blocks and it hung over the fire. If it were a wet day and she’d sheets on they’d be hung down and you’d be dipping your head under ‘em, what a carry on!
Obviously, you had a coal fire?
R-We’d a coal fire yes.
How about the fireplace, what sort of fireplace was it?
R-Them houses you see, they were built on the border of a little bit of modernisation and our fireplaces weren’t really high ones, they were only about four feet high and there was a wood surround.
Like an over mantel
R-And it were a black tiled fireplace like, just an over mantle with two shelves like your top shelf and a little shelf on the bottom. In the middle of the little shelf there were a brass ornament that me father always kept and it were full of buttons. By some means or other, while I were at school I collared an airgun of someone and I were in the house be meself one Saturday I think it were and I let fly at this ornament with the airgun and put a great dinge in it and |I turned it round with the pattern to the wall but when me father came in he just turned it back round again. Na then, what the hell’s this he says, Tha’s made a reight job of that, wheers t’gun? I says it’s in the pantry up against the corner. Fetch it out he says, we’ll have to get rid of that. He didn’t, he said mind what you’re doing with it and put it back! Then he says have a good look at that ornament Newton, I turned it round to the flat side where there were no pattern on and there were a reight little mark on it, like a pop mark. He says I did that at Kelbrook and I were a lot further away than tha were. He said to leave the rifle in the pantry but I didn’t, I got rid of it.
How did your mother clean the house?
R-Hands and knees, brush and shovel and Mansion Polish. I can remember the red tins of Mansion Polish being about the place, they were about four inches in diameter, gold writing on, Mansion Polish, aye, for the woodwork.
How about a Ewbank. Did she have one?
R-No, no carpet sweeper.
Was there anything she paid special attention to, you know, that she thought a lot of?
R-I wouldn’t say so, it were all more or less the same.
Did you or your sister do any jobs in the house?
R-I fancy I used to wash up occasionally but it weren’t so oft. She were always at home when I came home from school and the jobs were more of less done. I did a heck of a lot of errands because me mother had bad legs and any meat from up town, all that, I used to bring it no bother on me bike.
How about washing up day. Did you ever wind the mangle?
R-Aye, she’d say, oh blankets and that, there were always me and me father to wind the blankets through, we enjoyed doing that. I once broke two teeth out on it wi’ wringing, winding the blankets through and he says well, I can mend that now.
What did he do?
R-He drilled and pegged ‘em. He drilled them, tapped them three eigths and put some setscrews in and then filed them into teeth. In later years I turned the rollers up many a time for her, for that wringing machine and she kept it until you couldn’t get any rollers for it and we used to make them. We used to get the wood of Edwin Berry [Wood yard at Sough. SG] and me dad’d say Tha’d better mek thy mother a new roller for’t wringing machine. He bought her an electric washing machine, a twin tub, when they came out at first and she told Harry Garlick [Electrical retailer on Church Street] to take it back! She wouldn’t use it, old fashioned, she wanted the old wringer.
Did your father do any work in the house?
R-Aye, he used to do one job and that were about all, he never did any decorating or owt like that, he’d allus get someone else in to do it but he cleaned the taps in the kitchen, they were brass uns and he seemed to enjoy cleaning the kitchen taps, I’ve seen him do ‘em at Sunday afternoon. ‘I’ll clean the kitchen taps for you Sarah’. Aye.
Your family owned the house?
R-Yes, aye.
Have you any idea how much they paid for it?
R-Aye, £430.
And did your mother ever do any work in the house to make a bit of money for herself?
R-No.
Can you remember any women in the neighbourhood doing anything like that?
R-Oh I can’t really, if anybody up the street did a bit of sewing I can’t remember anyone that did.
Taking in washing or child minding?
R-There were a lot of them went out to work each side of us at t’local mills, Butts, Fernbank, Westfield, them were the mills that were handy.
Is the house still standing?
R-Yes, it’s still standing.
What did your mother cook on?
R-Gas oven, gas cooker.
And she had that when she first moved into the house?
R-Yes.
Do you know where it came from?
R-I can’t say where it came from but it were one o’t ancient models, all cast iron, cast iron door and a lot of fancy mouldings on and all that carry on and later we bought a new one.
Did she blacklead it?
R-She probably did blacklead it, like the back of the fire.
Did she make her own bread?
R-Now then, for a lot of years when I were little we always had us own bread, we used to look forward to it. But that wore off as she got older and they went and bought it.
When she made her own bread how much did she make at a time?
R-Oh I should say happen six or eight loaves, I can see ‘em on the hearth now rising, covered up with a cloth.
How often did she bake?
R-Oh, I should say me mother baked every day or every other day. She enjoyed her baking, fruit pies and that sort of stuff and steak pie crust.
Cakes?
R-Aye, all her sweet cakes were marvellous. I can see ‘em now, just ordinary plain ones mostly about six or eight inches in diameter. I can see them now, she enjoyed her baking did me mother.
Did she ever make any jam or marmalade?
R-Oh yes, we had a jam pan up in’t attic, I used to bring it down. It must have weighed about a hundredweight! It were about half an inch thick, it were the best jam pan I’ve ever seen.
Brass?
R-A brass one, yes.
Did she ever clean her jam pan out?
R-No, I don’t think she ever did, it never seemed to go mucky on the inside. I can see me going up into’t attic for it, it were dusty that’s all. It were always like gold inside and black outside, it were a big pan were that.
Did she make pickles?
R-No, I can’t remember her ever making any pickles.
Home made wine or beer?
R-No.
Did she ever make any of her own medicines?
R-I shouldn’t think so, no.
(450)
What did you have for breakfast?
R-Breakfast? Oh I’d say a bit of toast, happen jam and bread or a bit of bacon, not every day, I don’t suppose it’d run to it.
How about Sunday dinner?
R-Roast beef, roasted potatoes then ordinary potatoes and whatever vegetable were going at that time of the year.
What did you have for dinners during the week?
R-Oh, steak pies or fish, she’d vary it from day to day as much as she could. You know, how much the money would run to.
Did you have that at dinnertime?
R-Yes, we had that at dinnertime.
And how about tea? What did you have for tea?
R-Well that’s a funny thing to answer really because many a time what me and me dad’d have for tea would be what would be left over from dinnertime you know. Apart from a bit of sweet cake or something like that. We always lived fairly well.
Did you have any supper before you went to bed?
R-Oh every day, aye. Me father couldn’t go to bed without supper, he couldn’t sleep.
What did you have usually?
R-Oh I don’t know, fish and chips from t’chip shop just round the corner when we could afford ‘em. ‘Go and fetch some fish and chips Newton. Aye.
Did you have a garden or an allotment?
R-No.
Were Johnny never interested?
R-Never interested no. He’d like to go to other people’s and look round ‘em like on a Sunday afternoon, his pub mates and that sort of thing. Dobson, th’engineer at Crow Nest, he’d go round there on a Sunday morning. He’d say Come on Newton, let’s go down to Dobson’s garden. He were interested in other people’s but never interested enough to do it himself.
Did you have any hens, ducks, goats or owt like that?
R-No.
Did you have pudding every day?
R-No I wouldn’t say we had one every day.
How often do you think you had them?
R-Oh, say about three or four times a week.
What kind?
R-Rice, sago, sometimes if we were going good a steamed one, a roly poly one. Sommat as ud fill you up like lead, you couldn’t work after it, cor, do you want some more of that!
Have you any idea how much milk your mother got each day?
R-I’ve no idea. I suppose it’d be about a quart because I can see t’can coming and the jug, we had a jug with flowers on it for a lot of years. It had a cover with beads sewn on it and it used to stand on t’kitchen table.
(500)
How was your milk delivered then?
R-By hand, in a can.
That’s it, a lading tin?
R-Yes, I did a bit of that at one time while I was still at school, delivering milk for Mrs Bell’s dairy down Gisburn Road. If anybody were off poorly I used to go mates with Albert Lambert and he were the main milk lad were Albert and if he were indisposed a bit or not feeling so good or on his holiday she’d ask me if I’d do it. I got a bit wrong one week, I gave all t’wrong houses one all t’way up one street.
When you were hawking milk did they all have jugs?
R-Most of them had jugs or a tin billycan outside; you know them enamel ones with a lid on. If they were late getter-uppers or if they were out you filled that up and left it on the doorstep.
Did you ever put any milk in a jam jar?
R-No, I can’t say that I did.
Did the family have butter?
Yes, oh aye, they liked their butter.
Margarine?
R-We used to get farmer’s butter. No, me father wouldn’t have margarine, he said we’d had enough margarine through’t 14 war and he’d been brought up, on me father’s side originally they were farmers round Lothersdale, the original Pickles. No, it were farmer’s butter and I used to go to Mrs Wiseman’s for it at t’corner shop occasionally and she’d cut it off a big lump and pat it wi’t wood patters to make it into t’shape and then stamp it wi’ a stamp and lay a picture on.
Which shop were that?
R-Wiseman’s, just on Gisburn Road. They’re all there yet, that shop is now a laundrette. All them shops are still there.
What fruit did you eat most often?
R-Oh, apples, oranges and bananas, oh I liked bananas and I do yet. Me mother used to bring me a banana to work if I were on a big job local.
What vegetables did you have most often?
R-Cabbage, carrots, turnips, I like me turnips and me cabbage and me peas. But I mean there were no tinned stuff then like there is now, they used to have to steep peas in a nice big dish at night.
That’s it, dried peas.
R-Aye and they put, what did they put into ’em?
Bicarb?
R-That’s it, bicarb to make them go bigger. Me and me father used to dip into ‘em wi’ us fingers and chow ‘em. She’d say, Come out on ‘em will you there’s going to be none left for tomorrow!
There’s a list of foods here, I’ll just read them out to you and tell me whether you had them, you know, every week, once a month, rarely or never. First, bananas.
R-Yes, aye, regular.
Rabbit?
R-No.
Fried food?
R-Aye, bacon and eggs, bacon and ham regular.
Fish?
R-Yes, regular.
What sort of fish?
R-Oh cod, hake, fish from t’chip shop, but we used to, more or less every week we had fish for us dinner.
Where did your mother get her fish?
R-More often than not up in Barlick, Savages.
She bought it in the shops?
R-I’m just wondering where it were before Savages started in business up there. There were a shop at Newtown and I can’t remember what they called it, I think it were a greengrocer’s shop near t’reck[?] and they sold fish. We used to go theer for it ‘cause I’ve gone up for her.
Did she ever buy fish off a cart coming round?
R-We used to buy kippers of a little chap called Tommy Brown. T’chap used to come round up the street and he used to sell apples and bananas and spuds and that off a little cart, a little horse and he used to have a box of kippers once a week and me mother used to get kippers off him. Me dad liked his kippers.
How about cheese?
R-Yes, aye, we always had some cheese about.
Did your mother cook it or you had it on…?
R-Oh, she’d make cheese under t’grill for me father and I never liked it and I don’t yet. No.
Cow heel?
R-Oh yes, me father’d go mad at stuff like that, cow heel, trotters…
Tripe, black pudding?
R-Tripe, black puddings, they’d go to Burnley for them, aye, you’d go to Burnley on’t train if you had time, off a stall on Burnley Market. When we’d been in business on us own like, in’t latter years he’d say Come on Newton, let’s go to Burnley and get some black puddings off that market! That stall’s still there. He used to go when he worked at Burnley Ironworks, it were afore all this modernisation took place of course.
Eggs?
R-Oh yes, always some eggs about, get them off local pens and that sort of thing, just over t’fields.
Tomatoes?
R-Yes, aye, always about.
Grapefruit?
R-No I wouldn’t say there was a lot of grapefruit about.
Sheep’s head?
R-No.
How was your mother with tinned food?
R-I saw very little tinned food in Federation Street and there wasn’t a lot about really you know up to after just t’beginning of the war.
If she did get any, what did she get?
R-Oh, pears, fruit, peaches and pineapple chunks. And then of course we used to get part dried fruit, there were prunes and they’d be out at Sunday and that were marvellous even if it were @Newton, don’t spit stones out on to the plate, don’t make a noise!’
Did you drink tea?
R-Yes.
How about coffee?
R-Aye we’d have coffee every now and again. I used to get that ground at t’little shop like I said, Mrs Wiseman’s at t’corner. They had a grinder for grinding coffee beans and I’ve wound it for Mrs Wiseman many a time when t’shops been full, coffee grinder and it took some winding and all did them things!
Christmas Dinner, what did you have?
R-Oh, more often than not it were roast pork, aye, we liked us pork. She’d buy a chicken just for a change maybe but we always had pork at Christmas for us dinner.
Ever had a turkey?
R-Oh aye, we had a turkey later on I should say for turkeys, later on at Federation Street up to being married.
Can you remember what your favourite food were as a child?
R-No, I’m not bad to feed anyway.
I didn’t think you would be! Can you remember the family ever being a bit hard up?
R-We were always hard up! But what we had, we lived well off you know. Food wise like you never skimped the table.
If there were a bad week, can you remember….?
R-Oh aye, me father wouldn’t be able to go to the pub for his pint at half past nine like. He’d go down to the Syke for a pint and if there weren’t ninepence he couldn’t go. Or happen t’Building Society’d get missed at the t’month end or only half of it get paid. I mean, me father’d say, Will you go to the Building Society Newton and tell ‘em this is the best we can do this month. It were only 26 bob, it weren’t a lot but that wore off.
Did your father come home for his meals?
R-Yes, unless we were working into Earby or somewhere like that and he’d take his dinner then.
Otherwise he’d come home for his dinner?
R-We always went home for us meals if we possibly could.
And you came home from school?
R-Yes.
If he did take something with him what did he use to take? Had he a favourite?
R-Aye, it’d be a bit of beef or some cheese. He wouldn’t make a big do about it and he’d have his dinner when he came home.
Did you ever take food to him when he were out?
R-Aye, once, I remember particularly he went about four times on weekends to’t Sough when the second motion shaft were broken and I’d be about twelve and I more or less took him all his meals that weekend to t’Sough.
That’d be Sough Bridge Mill?
R-Sough Bridge Mill and I walked it from home, from Federation Street, to t’Sough Bridge Mill, stop with him then walk back and take him his tea.
When would that be roughly?
R-1928, I were 12. I were old enough to walk to t’Sough on me own anyway.
Can you remember, was Sough a ‘self-help’ shop then?
R-No, it weren’t a self-help shop then. It were a self-help shop after I started working because I did quite a bit of work for ‘em then.
Did your father eat the same food as the rest of the family?
R-Oh aye, we all had t’same.
Did you always sit down at the table?
R-Well, I always sat down at t’table, always.
How about a tablecloth?
R-Aye, there were always one on, it were mucky at my side because I never washed me arms reight.
Did your mother ever lay the table without a cloth on?
R-No I can’t say she ever did. No.
Can you remember your mother ever going short of food to feed you?
R-No. We didn’t.
Who usually did the shopping?
R-Me mother did.
But you’d do a fair bit?
R-I did a fair lot as I got older.
Can you remember how often she did the shopping?
R-Well I should say a bit every day because the shops was handy for her for t’local stuff, there were one just at t’top of the street in fact, You get your general bits there.
Where did she buy her meat?
R-Well, what we called ‘on’t front’. Where the butcher is now, what the name of that butcher? Lawsons.
Lawson?
R-Aye, it used to go under Lawsons, been Lawsons for donkeys years, it still has th’old name on I think. I don’t know whether these chaps are Lawsons or not. Aye we went there for donkey’s years.
Where did she generally buy her groceries, one particular place?
R-Aye I should say so, up at t’top. Little shop at the top of the street, Maggy Cooks.
That were at the top of Federation Street?
R-At top of Federation Street, Aye.
Did she ever go and do any shopping in the market?
R-Very very rare. She weren’t one to venture out a right lot you know.
If she did go to the market was there a reason why she went?
R-I wouldn’t say so. It’d just be a case of I’ll just go up to the market today and have a look. It used to be at the bottom of Butts in those days you know.
How about the Co-op?
R-Oh we went to t’Co-op part at one time and then that seemed to fade away because it was such a long way to go.
Do you think there was any difference in those days between prices, services and quality at the corner shop and the shops in the town?
R-There weren’t any difference in prices that made any difference. I mean it wouldn’t be a halfpenny or a penny different on happen a pound or thirty bobs worth of stuff, even in them days.
Did local shops give credit?
R-They did, aye they did, yes.
Can you remember pawnshops?
R-Oh there were a pawnshop on Church Street for donkey’s years George Wraw’s.
What was the name of the man that ran the pawnshop? Do you remember, he was a bald headed man.
R-He was a bald headed man wi’ a wig on, a nice chap, a little fellow. I can’t remember, it won’t come to me won’t his name just off stick end. I might remember in a bit, I knew him very well.
If it does, just come back with it.
R-There’s one person that’ll know when she comes home, that’s Olive. [Newton’s second wife. SG]
Did your family ever use a pawnshop?
R-Not as I know on, not as I know.
How about the neighbours?
R-I wouldn’t say any of them had done either.
Have you any idea how people looked on pawnshops in them days?
R-They’re bound to say that so and so has had to pawn his watch this week, he’ll get it back next week when he gets on to some warp. But nobody, it were no disgrace, no disgrace at all but it used to get them talking you know.
Yes, that’s the sort of attitude.
R-Oh yes, that were the attitude, it were no disgrace to go in’t pawn shop wi’ a watch chain and that sort of thing. I never heard anyone anyway.
How about lending money, can you remember anyone ever lending money?
R-No, only that £500 me father borrowed off that aunt at Kelbrook to get started in business on his own, that were all.
I was really thinking of someone in the neighbourhood.
R-No, I can’t say so, no.
Provident Cheques? Did your mother use them?
R-No, no.
Was there anything you used to eat when you were young that you can’t get now?
R-Now that’s hard to answer isn’t it really? Bits of sweet stuff like kids use such as coltsfoot rock and Charlie’s rock and that sort of stuff. You never see that about now.
What were Charlie’s Rock?
R-It were Charlie’s, all it were was white sticks of rock about half an inch in diameter and about six inches long in a white paper with ‘Charlie’s Rock’ written on it. We used to get them when we went to the pictures, I think they were a halfpenny and they were always the same, they were always white, there were no different colours, you couldn’t pick and choose, it were Charlie’s Rock.
When you went to the pictures that’d be the Majestic?
R-Palace and Majestic. And I can remember the Alhambra you know down on t’Butts that were burnt down, we used to go there when our mother used to take me when I were right little.
Whereabouts was that?
R-It were between the Working Men’s Club and the mill. It were spare land after it were burned down, they made that into the open-air market after the Alhambra had been on fire.
When you say Working Men’s Club you mean the Pigeon Club?
R-Pigeon Club, yes, right, It were on that spare land at the back of the Pigeon Club. It’s all car parks and a building for {Carlson] Fords. Isn’t there garages on there now?
Yes, the clinic’s there isn’t it.
R-Well after the Alhambra burned down they used it for t’open air market for donkey’s years and a fair ground.
That’ll be where the clinic is now.
R-That’s it, where the clinic is, aye, I forgot about t’clinic Stanley, aye.
Have you any idea how much housekeeping money your mother’d have?
R-Oh I don’t think me father ever kept owt back you know, how much he’d have? When I started working he’d have about what, fifty odd bob a week? He got up to three pound later on but he’d have about fifty shilling a week wi’ being t’foreman, happen fifty-five.
Can you ever remember food being short?
R-Never, no. Of course, they were always working, they were all the time even in them days me father’d be working over Saturday and Sunday on his mills.
Taken on the whole, do you think you were better fed then than now?
R-No, we’ve talked about this you know and I don’t think there is very little difference with what we’re getting, eating, now and what we were eating then, in amount, I don’t think so, very little.
How about quality?
R-Oh, I should say the meat quality of them days was better than it is now.
Is there anything in particular that makes you say that Newton?
R-Well, we are lucky with us butchering really but you go to some places and the meat quality is very low, especially at the bigger shops. If t’wife happens to get t’meat out of town, happen for an odd meal at Saturday or Sunday afternoon. You know, 'We’ll have some steak tomorrow.’ And she’ll go and buy it happen in Burnley or Nelson it can be very low compared to Barlick.
Can you remember in them days if there was any distinction made between frozen meat and fresh-killed meat?
R-Oh there were a lot of distinction made between t’frozen meat because just occasionally me mother’d say Oh John, have we to try some chops at t’frozen shop? He’d say No; we are having no chops from the frozen shop. She’d say to me, Go up to the frozen shop and get some chops he’ll not know the difference, we’ll try him. And I go up then to t’frozen shop at the end of Church Street on your left hand side going towards Wapping.
Now that frozen shop that’d be what, what was Dewhursts?
R-Aye, Dewhursts, it’s only just gone off hasn’t it in the last year or two.
That’s it, was it Dewhursts then?
R-No I wouldn’t say it was Dewhursts then.
But it was still a frozen shop?
R-It were a butchers and it were frozen shop and we always knew it as frozen shop.
Argentine?
R-It were all Argentine and New Zealand and she used to try and cod him and he didn’t know when she’d cooked them, did he heck.
Did you ever tell him?
R-No, nor did she, she didn’t tell him during the war.
What about clothing, did your mother ever make any of the family’s clothes?
R-I can’t say so, no I don’t think she did. A bit of knitting happen over the years but that’s all.
Did she have a sewing machine?
R-Yes, we had a sewing machine.
What sort?
R-A Singer and you treadled it.
Treadle?
R-Aye, come on Newton, and treadle me this machine while I just do round the edge of this carpet. It'd be about half an inch thick she’d be making a peg rug, aye.
Did she mend your clothes for you?
R-Oh aye, big patches on your breeches backside to go to school. Aye, they’d be blue pants and a black patch. Oh aye.
How was she at mending clothes?
R-Very good, aye, very good.
How about darning?
R-Oh aye, your socks wi’ big holes in ‘em, you could get your fist through the holes in the heels of my socks. When I cam home with me clog laces all undone and they’re worn through. Cor lummy, Give us them here. She had a mushroom, a wooden one with a stick in it, I can see her now.
That’s it, aye a mushroom.
R-Aye, a wood mushroom.
Did you ever get any passed on clothes?
R-No, no, wi’ me being an only lad. No.
Where were your clothes bought?
R-Well at George Wraws more often than not, best and cheapest clothes there were in the town, especially for going to school in, and even for going to work, all your clothes came from there, your overalls and everything. You get a new suit for weekend, that’s where you made for or probably at Atkinson’s, they were on Church Street, they were good tailors were Atkinsons, they lived up the opposite side of the road to us, Parker Street, W H Atkinson and family.
Whereabouts was their shop.
R-Where Edmonds is.
What did you wear for school?
R-Short pants, sometimes corduroy ones but I didn’t make owt of them they used to make your legs sore.
How about your boots, what was it, clogs?
R-Clogs made at Marsh’s. Aye, clogger’s shop at Marsh’s on the side of the Butts beck edge, Old Marsh’ll make you some clogs. Marsh, Butts?
R-Aye, bottom, you know, below Catholic [?] Hill on t’bottom where the beck goes under the road.
Yes.
R-It’s all garden now well, there were a wood shed, a little wood shack there, it were a clogger’s shop right on th’edge of the beck side just up the road.
Yes, that’s it Aye.
R-Right across the gable end, to the gable end of Ribblesdale Terrace.
What happened to your old clothes?
R-Oh I couldn’t say, rag chap got them, he’d come round shouting and they’d go for scouring stones.
Did you wear a hat or a cap?
R-Cap, little cap, round one you know wi’ a knob on.
Badge on it?
R-Oh probably, aye, probably.
What did the family wear for Sunday best, what did you wear for Sunday best?
R-Oh I’d always a right, a proper little suit, even when I had short breeches, and a waistcoat you know and sometimes if I were a right good lad me father’d lend me his watch and I put his chain on.
What were the colour of the material, can you remember?
R-More often it were dark colours, navy blue getting on towards black, rough tweedy stuff you know, sommat that would last a bit.
What did your father wear for Sunday best?
R-Aye, he always had a good suit did me father for Sunday best and brown shoes, probably made by me uncle Newton at Kelbrook. [Newton Holmes Pickles. Died 7/01/1958 aged 70 years. SG.] But me father’d go in for a bit lighter stuff like, you know, browney fawn or a bit of check or somat like that for Sunday.
How about his hat?
R-Oh he’d have a hard hat on, a billycock.
Always a billycock?
R-Yes, always. Now when he were working, I remembered him working when I started work you know, when I were young he always wore a cap for work. But in later years, after the war he started wearing his billycock for work and he never wore owt else after that.
What did your mother wear for Sunday best?
R-I can’t say really, she always dressed up all right you know. It’d be silky stuff more likely than not, me mother’s fancy hats with all sorts of blooming flowers pinned on them in those days, I’ve some photographs somewhere.
Can you ever remember your mother wearing a long dress?
R-No, not down to t’floor, no I can’t.
When you were young, when you first started running about you know, you’d be about two?
R-Oh I can remember me grandma on me mother’s side coming from Nelson, coming to our house happen at weekends you know and she always wore long black skirts trailing on’t blinking floor in’t slush you know? Aye she always did, she were a strict, grumpy woman, I can always remember her coming. Aye, I can that.
Can you remember her name?
R-Grandma Kirby.
Was it at all common to see people walking round in long dresses?
R-Oh yes, it were. Trailing round in the muck. They’d come up to the mill in them. When I were a little lad I used to go and wait for me father and you’d see them coming up the mill yard in them. But I can never remember me mother in normal circumstances wearing them down to the floor.
Would that be the older end like?
R-Th’older end I suppose yes.
How about shawls?
R-Aye they always had a shawl more or less.
When do you think shawls started to go out?
R-Oh they’d go out when I was a right little lad except for the older people who carried them on up to their grave you know. Me mother’d never dream of going out with one, no.
How about a pinnie? [Pinafore]
R-Oh aye, pinnies, never without a pinnie. First job of a morning were that, put t’pinnie on.
Tell me Newton, would she go out with a pinnie on?
R-Sometimes under her coat if she were nipping out to the shop quick.
Is that right.
R-Yes, aye, yes. And if me father caught her he’d play hell, aye he did aye. Well she’d say, nobody can see me if I have me coat on.
What did your father wear for work?
R-Bib and brace overalls and a smock. Aye.
How about shirt? A union shirt?
R-Well, union shirt and that, and a separate collar. And all them used to hang on’t rack all in a row and he used to wear stiff collars did me father and I could never get the hang of those things. He let me have a do with them when I got older but I couldn’t make nowt on them Stan, when I finished they were like a concertina. He used to slip his tie through ‘em put them on the stud at the back and I used to frig and mess about, I said Give us a soft un. Try one of these he used to say, just for fun. I couldn’t get the thing on. Then you did, you’d get this side on and be the time I’d pulled the other side over it’d fly off.
What kind of footwear did he wear at work?
R-Boots. He never wore them right heavy ones, he never did. Like you’d see the other blokes with big fat soles, me father never went in for right heavy boots, just normal 3/8 inch thick soles and that were it. Me uncle Newton more or less made them.
Can you ever remember your father wearing clogs.
R-No I can’t. He didn’t wear any, he wouldn’t he insisted that I never wore me clogs again after I started working.
Why?
R-Well he said they weren’t safe and he never let me uncle Newton put nails in them either, in me shoes, for slipping. Say you go into an engine house with chequer plates on the floor you’d be flat on your back.
What did your mother wear for housework.
R-Oh a skirt and jumper and flat shoes, ‘cause being bad on her feet she always wore flat shoes did me mother.
And pinnie?
R-Oh aye, pinnie, she always had a pinnie on.
And she’d wear the same when she went shopping?
R-Always, just put the coat on and round to the shop.
Did your father ever mend the family shoes.
R-No, he’d take em across to Kelbrook to Uncle Newtons.
How many outfits did you have at any one time?
R-What, you mean for weekends and that sort of thing? I don’t think I’d ever have more than one suit that were and when that one’s ready for work there’s another one bought.
How often did you have clean clothes?
R-Oh, shirt wasn’t changed many times a week. When I got working of course but under normal circumstances at school, once a week, unless I tumbled in t’beck and then it’d be a complete change for the morning after.
Have you ever heard of anyone being sewn in for the winter?
R-No, what were that?
Sewn in, their clothes sewn on for the winter.
R-Sewn in so they couldn’t get them off? No I haven’t Stanley.
And your mother never belonged to a savings club, Provident cheques, owt like that, you’ve already said that.
R-No, I wouldn’t think so, no.
Can you remember what kind of clothes old Mr Brown would wear when your father was working for him?
R-Oh he were always smart, always smart. Lightweight suit, generally grey, dark grey suit and collar on t’union shirt, stiff collar. He’d have a clean collar every morning you know. Always smart our Mr Brown.
What kind of collar would that be, a wing collar?
R-No, it were ordinary starch, what I used to call celluloid collars.
Now. Let’s get back to family life in the home. You all sat down to meals together?
R-yes we did.
Did your parents have any particular rules about your behaviour at the table? Were they strict with you at the table?
R-Oh they were strict with us but it were no problem, I mean don’t get us wrong, it weren’t way we’d been brought up, it were no problem. I wouldn’t say they were strict under them circumstances, you see it were no problem. You didn’t get blated at if you happened to speak or owt like that, ask any question or wonder what they were on about you know. No.
Was there any particular thing they were strict about, you know, like times for coming in or…?
R-Aye, times for coming in when I got older, very strict. Aye if I weren’t in like, if I had to go to school in the morning and I’d been off over them fields and had to be in at eight o’clock, if I were half an hour late I get into trouble. I wouldn’t get belted or anything like that, I can only remember me father belting me once.
What were that for?
R-Oh now then, it were for not going to chapel on a Sunday night, I didn’t go.
Where did you go?
R-Walked all down the fields, before the New Road were built [Barlick to Kelbrook] and back up Sodom Lane and round be t’Dog and back down home with me mate. Aye.
Did anyone ever say grace before meals?
R-No.
Ever remember any prayers at all.
R-No.
If you had a birthday was it differe3nt from any other day?
R-No it wasn’t.
Presents?
R-No.
Special meal?
R-No. Not until later on when I left home.
How about Christmas and New year?
R-Oh we always got sommat at Christmas, we always got some presents at Christmas, how hard up you were.
How did you spend Christmas?
R-At home, at home.
At home.
R-The fire in the front room were made up, either you get a clockwork train or a little car or sommat like that you know, always got something at Christmas, sister and all.
How about Easter holidays, can you remember anything special?
R-Oh we never had any holidays, no, we never had any holidays, only you wouldn’t have to go to school, that’s all.
Never rolled eggs or owt like that?
R-No, no.
Any musical instruments?
R- Oh, we had a piano.
Who played it?
R-Me father could play and all, he could that. He were a good pianist me father.
Could you play?
R-No, I used to tinker on it. When I got older I asked him to learn me how to play and he said Look Newton, I can’t learn you to play because I taught meself, I only ever had one lesson and I taught meself after that. Go down to Marion Hall and I’ll
(500)
pay for the lessons and learn the job properly. I said, Oh, I’d rather laik out wi’t lads and he said it was up to me, he never forced me to go but by gum, later in life didn’t I rue, I started learning to play when I were blooming 58!
That’s it, with Arnold Brown?
R-Aye wi’ Arnold Brown. Allus was interested but never would go to the trouble to learn properly.
Did any of you sing?
R-Me mother were a good singer, she sang in’t choir at the chapel at Earby when she were younger.
Which chapel were that?
R-It’d be the Bethesda Baptist.
Were there any games you played in the house?
R-Oh aye, lots of things like Snakes and Ladders and draughts and all that sort of stuff, me mother and father could play chess but I never could get into it because there again, I wouldn’t spend the time wi’ 'em to learn.
Did they play drafts and such?
R-Oh aye, on Sunday night, long before there were tellies and wirelesses and that you know? And then of course, later on, ou5r Mr Brown was very interested in wireless and we get a crystal set off him and after that we were well away. We got a two valve set wi’ two sets of earphones and we used to be sat in the house waiting while me mother or father’d get fed up wi’ it so we could grab one.
Can you remember having a regular newspaper?
R-Oh we always got a newspaper every day.
Which were that?
R-News Chronicle and when I got older I got t’Children’s Newspaper for donkey’s years. Arthur Mee. And later on we got Mee’s other book as well, the thick one like Yorkshire Life and it come once a month. [Neither Newton or me could remember the title. SG.]
R-I can remember the Model Engineer used to come every Thursday; I had a good look at that. We had it from the first one being published.
Of course your father were really interested in model making?
R-Oh he were up to his neck in the Model Engineer, and t’English Mechanic, we used to get that as well, that were a little bit bigger paper than’t Model Engineer. M E was on quality paper but th’English Engineer were more like newspaper stuff. It were very interesting were that.
Yes, I can remember me dad getting one for years, was it Practical Engineer?
R-Practical Engineer, that’s it, yes. Bur we didn’t get that one because me mother used to play heck many a time about the newspapers and books cause they were a bit expensive.
Did any of the family belong to the library?
R-I don’t know whether we ever belonged to the library until me sister got a bit older when she started going to the library ‘cause she did a lot more reading than I ever did. Then of course, me dad would ask her to fetch books for him off her card.
Were there any books in the house?
R-Oh it were packed with books. There were a full set of Ornamental Turning books that must have been worth a fortune but he more or less gave them away once. They were Holtzapfel’s ornamental turning books. There were Holtzapfels and they made lathes for ornamental turning, for ivory turning or Blackwood, all these fancy things.
Were they Swiss or German?
R-I don’t know, they might have been German originally but they were made in this country. There were another set of books, red backed ones, all them books like you’ve been getting lately on Hale and Harvey and all them, but there were a full set of them, Smeaton and all that lot.
It weren’t Smiles were it?
R-Smiles, there were all t’lot of them. You know he’d give them away or lend them and they’d never come back until there were none left.
[Discussion here about Smile’s works.]
Would you say the books were mainly your dad’s or would some of them be your mother’s?
R-No, they’d be me dad’s more or less.
How about prizes?
R-Oh aye, I got a load of them. I got six first prizes for Sunday School for good attendance and there’s a lot of them about yet. One or two, the kids have more or less damaged them but I think they’re all here in a box in me workshop. Firsts and Seconds at Primitive Methodists where I went.
Were your father and mother regular attenders at chapel?
R-No, not regular attenders but they’d go to special dos. More often than not we went to Kelbrook and me father were a regular attender when he played the organ at t’Congo for about four years on the trot. I used to blow t’organ for him.
By ‘Congo’ you mean the Congregational Chapel?
R-Yes. I used to go to t’Congregationalist Chapel before they built this new one. When they were in’t Tin Tabernacle a bit lower down, it were demolished. I went home one Sunday afternoon after Sunday School and I said to me father I’m not going to yon Sunday School any more. They won’t open t’bloody window I were nearly smothered! Well he says tha’d better find another one then, where’s ta going? I said
I’ll go with Bob to’t Primitive Methodists. It were on Station Road, it’s just been pulled down. We had some good dos theer and I blew th’organ there a long while.
So, even though they didn’t go regular they made sure you went?
R-They made sure I went but me sister didn’t go as much as I did. They didn’t seem to bother her as much you know but I liked to go, I used to enjoy going and all me mates went as well. We went at morning and at afternoon and of course we had all sorts of good does like pantomimes and shows and bits of things like that when we were kids we were all in them together. Oh aye, I didn’t mind going to chapel at Sunday night in winter it were somewhere to go, better than just stopping in and talking. There were no tellies then and such.
How about toys?
R-Oh, I were never badly off for them. Same as I say, he were always buying me something for Christmas. I remember him going to London and coming back with a three-foot boat. He says, here Newton, How will that do? It were a three foot launch and it’d be about three inches beam, beautiful thing, steam engine in, oscillating cylinder and a boiler, methylated spirits, go like hell in the bath but it were never a right lot of good in the reservoir at the back of Brogden cause there was always a wind and it blew the lamp out. I used to swear at it there when the lamp went out, I’d get steam up, put it in the water and the lamp’d go out. I remember being in bed poorly, I’d happen have measles or chicken pox and I were allus bad wi’ owt I had you know because I was so little, He lands up the stairs one night when he came back from work and he brought a wood buffet, we had a four leg wood buffet made out of oak in the house, I allus sat on that for me dinner when I got older wi’ mucky overalls on. Na then Newton, how will this do? And it were a little vertical oscillating cylinder about so big with things you fasten on the side of the boiler and a little black chimney with a brass ring on top, and th’exhaust went up it, and he put a lamp under and he had it going for me on’t buffet and I were in bed poorly. I’ll never forget that.
How old would you be then?
R-Oh let’s say about six or seven. I can remember that engine as if it were yesterday. I had that engine for years and I used to laik with ‘em on me own, he were never frightened of me having ‘em be meself. I had it going in’t house one afternoon after I’d come home from school, on’t table, and it blew the safety valve out of the top of the boiler and it stuck in the bloody roof! Me dad said he thought I’d had it long enough, it’d better go in t’dustbin. The boiler were rotten, it were only made out of brass sheet ten thou’ thick and it had gone rotten.
Can you remember being poorly when you were a child?
R-I can, there were a lot of it, I were allus in bed. You know, not for so long at once like. Bronchitis you know, hot and feverish, and then blooming tonsillitis, oh I can remember them all. And then I had a real do, They said I were a near gonner. I got scarlet fever and then diphtheria on top of it. They had to cart me away in a black maria down to the fever hospital at Bank Hill below the Syke where Briggs and Duxbury have built them new houses. I were in there, and they said I didn’t know anybody for a week. I’ve two holes in the bottom of me back where they put tubes in you know. I didn’t know I had ‘em until I went to Blackburn for me medical to join t’forces. He spotted ’em did t’doctor, By gum lad he said, You must have had a good do at diphtheria sometime in your life! He said you’re all right now; there must be two marks. There must have been two tubes there to help me breathe or sommat, Idon’t know.
Dr Arnott looked after me, he must have been a marvellous blooming chap must that. Everybody that knew him like, that can remember him, allus said he were a marvellous doctor. He were in the surgery where they are now, he lived in that house. Doctor Pickard went into it didn’t he? He lived in that house, it’s the surgery now. Well, Doctor Arnott had that, I can well remember him being there and going up to see him and that.
How about the doctor then, did you have to pay?
R-Ah yes, me father had to pay, aye it were a big thing that. It doesn’t matter, he got through somehow but it must have cost ‘em a bloody fortune.
How about Whooping Cough or owt like that?
R-Oh aye, I had Whooping Cough very bad and they couldn’t get rid of it. Weeks and weeks, I think they thought I were going to conk out wi’ that. Then me father says one morning Just get that lad ready and I’ll take him down to t’Gasworks. And I remember him bringing me to t’Gasworks and he took me up the hoist, right on top where they fired in’t retorts, little pipes where they fire the retorts through a bell, and all the smoke off the baking coal, it isn’t burning you know, just baking, comes up there and like it’s full of tar and he says walk around there a bit amongst that and I did so and I never coughed any more.
Cured it.
R-Aye, that were t’end o't Whooping Cough.
How about medicine? You’d have a fair bit, do you remember much about the medicines you had?
R-Well it were allus bottles of medicine, lousy stuff and good stuff. Stuff that were good to take and some that you could hardly take.
Aye, and the worse it were, the better it were for you.
R-Aye and sometimes you’d get some little pills, I don’t know what they were. I can remember me mother giving ‘em to me on a spoon with some treacle to get them down. You know, some little toddy pills, there weren’t so many pills about in them days.
Can you remember your mother ever taking medicines?
R-No, do you know I can’t, me mother took very little medicine except for a drop of whisky and a Guinness or two.
How about your dad?
R-No, I don’t think he took much medicine in his time, only at the latter end you know. He had a bit of a heart do when he were about fifty and of course he were on pills for the rest of his life, that were about all. He liked his medicine like, a bottle of whisky a week and his two or three Guinness when he were younger. Off to t’Syke for his two or three pints.
Was there anyone in your family that couldn’t read or write?
R-No.
Did your mother have any spare time in the house? Was there anything in particular she used to do?
R-Well, she’d sit in front of the fire happen with a woman’s book, women’s Weekly or summat like that and have a quarter of jelly babies or those dolly mixtures you know. We were allus a bit partial to them, I am yet. I get some dolly mixtures now sometimes and a jelly baby or two. Course. I haven’t to have so many…
How about your dad in his spare time?
R-Oh well, he went into his workshop but when I were a little lad he hadn’t that workshop outside, he were up in’t attic with all his tackle, lathes he made himself and all that.
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