THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON THE 12TH OF OCTOBER 1978 AT 14 STONEYBANK ROAD, EARBY. THE INFORMANT IS FRED INMAN, TACKLER AND THE INTERVIEWER IS STANLEY GRAHAM.
Right we're away Fred but just before we start this week I’ll tell you what the job is down there now, things are beginning to get a bit plainer, Now for anybody that's listening to this tape, I should remind you that Fred did work with us. Fred was tackling down at Bancroft but because he was beyond retirement age, as soon as we got so that the work was going down, Fred was the first to get the bullet. What they’re doing anyway Fred, they’re going all out for a quick finish..
R - Aye...
Aye they’re putting weaving out to Bemden’s. You know Bemden’s have been on short time, they’re filling their looms up.
R - Aye,
And I think meself, and I only heard this week, that Rushworths have backed out of tendering for the scrapping. Because what they've done you know, Boardman's like, the gaffers, they've put a completion date on the scrapping. I don't know what it is yet, I can’t find out but I will get to find out. They’ve put a completion date on the scrapping and Rushworths wouldn't take it on because they couldn’t guarantee to complete in that time.
R - No
So it's left now between two blokes. One's a fella called Blackburn, a scrap chap from over Colne way and the other one's Ashby's at the foundry, well if they get it Gibson’s will do the scrapping I think.
R – Yes.
And I think what they’re after is to weave out by about December, the lot and scrap before Christmas.
R- Aye, oh...
So quick. I’m sure they’re in for a quick job. If not completely clearing the place I think what they want to do is smash the engine before Christmas to stop any preservation moves or owt like that. You understand what I mean.
R- Aye, yes. What a job isn't it,
Aye, well you can just imagine what we feel like you know. I mean, somebody come in today, they said “Eh, the brass work isn't reight shiny.” I said would you be using bloody Brasso on something that was going to be smashed up?
R- Aye.
I said “I'll tell you what it is. “You must be a glutton for punishment!”
R- Aye. It’s no used polishing nowt and wasting money now is it.
I said “I'll tell you what it is, all the heart’s gone out of the job now. Never mind heart and sentiment. I'll keep it looking tidy but if anybody thinks I’m going to start decorating before they smash it up, they’re mistaken!”
R - Aye.
Just for folk to come in that's never taken interest in their lives before. I'll tell you, it's getting a bit depressing working down there.
R - Mm...
But what can you do?
R- Hey, aye.
I never thought it ud effect me like that you know, but it is.
R - And is it Boardman’s that's closing it down or is it the new firm Stanley, do you know?
Well you see it's still Boardman's. I mean the fact that this new investment company have taken over, you know, have bought the controlling interest in the shares, makes no difference to the fact that the firm is actually still Boardman International.
(50)
R - Boardman International aye.
And they tell me that the great white chief, or the great coffee coloured chief, is coming round tomorrow and as soon as I heard I rang Newton Pickles up, I says come up and run this engine from dinner time. I said I don't want to be here. I said I don't want 'em to see me. I said you just reckon that you're the engine tenter, if they ask you any questions tell 'em that I've gone away, I'm after a fresh job. Because they can’t say anything about that. I mean I’m paying Newton you see, I mean actually they ought to be paying Newton while I go off. Actually what I'm doing tomorrow is going off to Nelson College to sign up for University next year. And it’s time the forms were in you see but I don't want to see them.
I don’t want to see anyone, but I think they've got a bit of a bloody cheek you know. Closing the shop down and then coming and visiting it.
R- aye, it looks bad doesn’t it.
Do you think you would though. If you'd just closed something down and chucked fifty people out of work, do you think you'd come round to have a good gloat, eh?
R - It's just typical isn't it of some of 'em.
Did you hear about Jim’s golden hand shake?
R – Oh, that reference.
Aye.
R - Aye.
Bloody reference eh. You know what Birtles said to him? He said “You're the only one that's getting one of these, you know.” And he give him this envelope and Jim though eh bloody hell, he thought hundred quid.
R - Aye, you would do.
(5 mins)
You know, aye. He opened it up and it were a reference. Aye, sixty three year old, and they give him a reference after forty three years.
R - Now his age is going against him for employment you know. But they’re just short of them sort of fellas like him aren’t they.
Course they are.
R- Really, but it isn't much good is it at his age to go into a job.
But I mean the thing is, you know yourself, Jim could get a job anywhere drawing. I mean he can draw owt. I mean that is that fellas job. I mean he can draw like Mohammad Ally can box.
R- That's it, aye.
I mean he’s just one of the loomers of all time is Jim, he must be.
R- Aye that's it aye. He wouldn't know what ailed him if he got to a straight forward shop would he.
No.
R - Looming one after an other.
Biggest laugh is you know, he could make more bloody money looming than he could working there for them. I mean you reckon up the number of warps he can do in a day if he's left alone.
R- Aye, aye.
And I laughed at him you know. He says he told Birtles I Just want you to remember one thing, that bloody drawing frame up there mine he says, I had it given and when I finish I'm taking it home, and I'm going to put it in me garage. And he is an all, he wants me to give him a hand to flit it. He's taking the drawing frame with him.
R- Good lad Jim.
Aye and all the rods.
R- Aye hooks and lot.
All the rods, hooks, wedges. All the bloody lot, aye he says “I’m taking them all home wi’ me.” I says “Tha wants to take a warp and a few sets of healds and reeds and keep looming it up and cutting it out and looming it up and cutting it out. Just to keep yourself in practice.
(100)
R - Aye.
Aye, so those are the latest developments at Bancroft Fred. You know as much as I do. Oh, and they’re asking sixty thousand pounds for the building.
R- Aye.
Aye, course the lower orders aren’t supposed to know that but I have friends in ... other places and...
R- Aye, they get to know.
And that's what it is. Sixty thousand, that's the asking price and it's too much. The men that know tell me it's too much.
R- Aye.
Aye well, the floors going to cost hundred and twenty thousand, in the shed, just for a kick off.
R - Aye.
Well, back to the nitty gritty of recording. No musical instruments and no singing. Games in the house, regular newspaper. Sunday paper, that were the Sunday Chronicle weren’t it?
R- Sunday Chronicle, yes.
That’s it aye. Can you ever remember your mother having a magazine, a women’s magazine or anything like that.
R- Yes she used to get one what they call Red Letter.
Aye, that's it.
R- That's an old un.
Romances weren’t they? That's it, stories.
R- Knitting patterns and that sort of thing in.
Yes that's it aye. Red Letter aye. You know I don't know but I think that's still going. I think it's still going. Did any of the family belong to a library Fred?
R- No.
Can you remember any books about the house you know, were there any books about the house?
R- Oh we’d a good supply of books.
Yes, where did they come from then Fred?
R- They were mostly prizes from Sunday School.
That's it.
R- And there were also me mother's prizes from Sunday school.
Yes it used to be same in our house. And what sort of books were they Fred?
R- Well they were Robinson Crusoe, Rip van Winkle.
Aye.
R- I can’t remember all the names now Stanley, although I still had a lot of books up to about twelve months since and my granddaughter came. They wanted some books for school and they were to send away somewhere and wife let 'em take a lot of these books of mine which they might do somebody a lot of good. They were stuck in a box upstairs. The youngsters had read 'em all, you know, what were suitable for their reading while they were here, so.
Some of the ones I can remember were things like, what was it? Christie’s Old Organ and Winter's Folly oh they were all me mothers prizes. And then I used to get prizes at school an all but I don't think they seem to go to Sunday School the same now do they.
R- No they don’t.
I mean there used to be prizes at Sunday School every year you know.
R- Yes, aye. I used to be really proud of them. First and Special I never missed you know. Twelve month and never missed.
(150)
That's it.
R- They were going back to about 1915 some of 'em.
Aye, aye, aye it's a pity.
R- And then as we got older you know we got on to other stuff, David Copperfield and a few of them.
(10 mins)
Aye. Did you ever go out and actually buy any books Fred? Did you ever go out and buy a book.
R- No. Well like we never really had any money to buy any wi’.
Aye. Was there anybody In your family that couldn’t read or write?
R- Only me grandfather Inman, he couldn't write, I don't think he could read. But he couldn't write, definitely he couldn't.
Aye. He were the journeyman weren’t he. He were a labourer that's it.
R- But they were them sort of folk that could estimate in their head like.
Aye.
R- How many stones they'd want and how much mortar they'd want for putting buildings up but he allus had to get somebody to write a letter. If he were writing to me father like, he got somebody else to write it.
Aye.
R- He were living at Burnley and he’d happen send a letter. In them days you know they'd post it at happen on Thursday night and it would be here at Friday morning, that he were coming at Saturday and that were it, he were coming. And me father had a bit of a shooting right down at Elslack and he used to go and his father used to like to come down and go wi’ him. And he’d be, I think he said that he were about twenty five.
Your father.
R- Aye, when his father started coming, he didn't know much about him because he’d buggered off when they were young.
Yes that’s it.
R- You know, as soon as they could do a bit of work and he must have got in touch and he started coming, and me father says he rolled a bit of twist up and lit his clay pipe. So he says, “I rolled a bit of baccy up and I lit me pipe and he says, “Just put that out and be thee age!” And he says I were twenty five and wed! Aye.
Is that reight.
R- Put it out and be thee age, and he said give ower. He said “Tha’rt not smoking in front of me!” And that were it.
God and that were at twenty five year old!
R- Aye, th’art not smoking in front of me. They had their own ideas didn't they Fred?
R- Oh they did that aye.
They ruddy well did. Did you know anybody else, you know, like any of your mates or anybody that you worked with when you were younger couldn't read or write.
R- No.
Did you have any toys that you could remember? Any toys that stick in your mind, you know.
(200)
R- Aye. One on 'em were a rocking horse. And it weren’t just a piece of wood, it were shaped like a rocking horse and it had, I don't know what it would be made out on, but it were just like a horse’s mane. You know, with hair on and all that. A long bushy tail. Reins on and everything and all harness on.
Were it on rockers or were it on a stand?
R- On rockers.
On rockers, aye.
R- It were one of them like, if you got too far you used to tipple ower.
Aye.
R- You'd go reight ower the top.
That's it aye. Bye god that ud be worth a bob or two to-day.
R- That were worth a bob, a lot of money. Like we got it at Christmas but me brother never seemed to take a fancy to it, it were for the two of us to join at but he were never interested in animals.
Aye.
R- We didn't know, we thought Santa Claus had fetched it you know, until we got old enough. Then me father told us that somebody had ordered this horse at Christmas, for Christmas and they were supposed to collect it a day or two afore. And when the fella at the shop asked 'em about it, oh, they said we aren’t interested, well he’d actually bought it you know.
Aye.
R- And in them days you couldn't afford to have these things because you couldn't sell it again till the Christmas after.
Aye.
R- And me father more on less got it at cost price. That were why we got that. And then as we got a bit older we got Meccano. We’d start off with a number 0 and then the year after you'd get 0-A or sommat. It made it into No 1 then.
Yes, that’s right.
R- Then if you had a penny or two pence to spare you used to go and buy some little nuts and bolts what you kept losing.
Aye that’s it.
And I thought a lot about me Meccano. I allus seemed to be a bit mechanical minded and eventually I got me brother’s off him an all. We both had one apiece and he weren’t much interested. I could make a lot of big models then wi’ having two and I think we got up to about a number two each so I'd a fair lot of stuff. And I’ve had some of it up to about five years since. And I let one of me relations have some on 'em. And I've still some bits and bats knocking about.
(15 mins)
I used to have a Meccano.
R- Aye. I think they were a good thing you know.
Aye, I’ll tell you how keen I was on Meccano. Can you remember that advert they used to have, that big block setting crane. Remember that advert? I'd enough Meccano to build that.
R- Aye?
Because I started off, I think me dad must have been flush or sommat, he must have won some money on a horse or some bloody thing so one Christmas he bought me brand new, a number 10. [I was wrong here, it was second-hand]
R- Aye. [Fred laughs]
I’d had a, I think it were a No.1 and he’d seen how I'd come on with it you know. I kept buying bits and I don't know, he must have had a funny turn because in them days I think they cost about. fourteen or fifteen quid or sommat, I think they were.
R- Yes they were a lot of money.
And he bought me a number ten Meccano. And when he bought me this number ten that weren’t big enough. I sent off for plans for this block setting crane. And I remember it took me about three or four weeks to work out all the stuff that I needed for this crane and I said I want some more stuff. And he said what for, what are you going to build like? 'Cause he were an engineer. I said “This.” And he looked and I remember what he said; “Good God! Will you have a do at building that?” I said yes and he said alright and went out and got the stuff.
R- Aye well...
And I built it.
R- That were standard on the advert weren’t it.
Yes, you could get plans for that.
R- Aye.
And it took like about one and half number tens and then some more stuff and all. But I didn't put any of electric motors in it I did it all be hand. He said that were going it a bit too far,
R- I had one of them clock work motors.
Aye, yes. Oh I used to like me Meccano, I made all sorts.
R- Oh I’ve spent hours and hours.
Aye, I can still remember models I made you know. The first thing I ever made were steam roller, a big steam roller.
R- Aye.
And I were allus one for big ones. I weren’t interested in little uns. It had to be big, and cranes, oh god, I've made any sort of crane there were.
R- Aye.
And this block setting crane it were a big thing you know. Oh they got fed up of this thing in the corner of the lounge.
R- Aye.
I were at it every night you know, a bit more and then you'd find you'd made a mistake and you had to go back and start again wi’ part of it. But I'll tell you what it is, they were the finest instructional toy ever I think.
R- They were. Well we had an old fashioned table, it had a, you know you could lift leaves ower you know.
That's it aye.
R- And they allus had a fancy table cloth to cover it, because there were only like oil cloth on the table or sommat like that. Well I used to put me crane on you know, and hoist things up off the floor and swivel it round. Well I allus had to hold it like that so, I daren't have done it meself, but me father got two screw nails and screwed it through into the table.
Aye?
R- And then, you know, I'd two hands free then, it couldn't tipple ower.
Aye, aye.
R- And after that, I used to put screws in meself and fasten it on to the table meself. I'd to put 'em into the same holes of course, like I hadn't to mess the table up. And I can remember me mother saying
(300)
“You're not going to screw that on there are you?” He says, “It's all reight. Cover it up wi’ the cloth when he takes it off.” Well it were a real do you know, wind 'em reight up wi’ me little motor and I had it geared to take, you know, more weight than what.
Aye.
R- Sometimes you'd to wind the motor up twice before you'd get it up to the top you know.
That's it, wind the motor up a bit.
R- And I do think, as you say, they were a wonderful toy.
Oh they were a great thing for teaching you. I learnt all I know about stresses in girders from a Meccano. Building bridges, seeing how much weight it ud take before it started to sag in the middle.
R- Aye.
Because it were amazing what you could do with 'em.
R- Oh they were good little girders, weren’t they.
Oh aye. I once built a warren truss you know, like them, an old fashioned warren truss like there is over a tape room. I once built one of them that you could stand on.
R- Aye.
'Cause I said to me dad one day, I said “Do you think if I set to with me Meccano I could make a Warren Truss that I could stand on?” He said, “Yes, if you make it right.” And he spent hours with me making sure that I knew the difference between tension members and compression members. He said “Make all your tension members with strip and your compression members with box section. Make it up, make two girders up into box section, two angles up into box section and use them. Keep 'em all bolted up well together and it’ll work if you do it that way.”
(20 mins)
R- Aye.
And I had to build it double in the finish but I could stand on it in the finish.
R- Aye. Oh give 'em to some of them today and they don't bother no. They aren’t interested in it a lot of 'em.
Well I mean, look what happened to Meccano, Meccano’s just about gone out, I don't know where you can still buy it. Anyway, and they tell me a lot of it's plastic now.
R- Yes it is aye. They aren’t metal.
Aye it all used to be....
R- Metal, nickel plated....
[It strikes me as I transcribe this that people might wonder why these two blokes were going on at some length about a child’s toy. Meccano was a wonderful fascinating toy and I often think that the engineering industry lost one of its best recruiting agents when they stopped making it. Believe me, it was addictive!]
Stoved enamel and nickel plated, ale. That's it aye. Anyway... what did your mother do if she had any spare time in house Fred?
R- Well, either knitting or making rugs, peg rugs.
Peg rugs aye. How about tatting?
R- No, she were no tatter and no crochet.
Aye.
R- All knitting and happen, you know, making clothes.
Aye. If your father had a bit of spare time did he, would he do anything?
R- No he didn't do a reight lot of anything in the house, but he allus
(350)
had his gardening you know.
Yes.
R - In winter time he used to play wi’ us a bit happen wi’ Meccano and happen do a bit of writing or teaching you to spell and that sort of thing. To say they’d never had any education much they were fairly well self educated as regards writing. He were a beautiful writer.
Aye, where did you father go to school Fred, do you know?
R - Most of his time ud be at Keighley I think.
Aye.
R- And you know, I've seen him writing and lovely letters and then he says “Lizzy, how do they spell this?” You know he’d come across a word he wouldn't be able to spell.
Aye.
R- Me mother would say “I’ll write it down and then you can copy it.” ‘Cause me mother were a good scholar.
Aye.
R- As regards spelling, but she couldn't write as good as me dad, and she'd been educated had me mother to standard [five] in them days you know.
That's it. What time did you get up in the morning when you were at school?
R- Oh half past seven.
What time did you go to bed?
Oh in winter time, seven o'clock, aye. [Fred laughs]
Yes.
R- In summer time eight o'clock.
Did you have any pets?
R- We allus had a dog and a rabbit or two.
What sort of a dog?
R- Well it were me father's dog, like it 'ud be a gun dog of some description.
Did your father or your mother smoke?
R- Me father smoked, me mother never did. Oh it were a terrible thing for a woman to smoke.
And yet you’ll see photographs in old days of older woman especially smoking a clay pipe.
R- Yes you did.
Did you know anybody that smoked? You know, any woman that smoked?
R- Yes, aye.
What did they smoke?
R- I knew one woman that smoked a clay pipe.
Aye.
R- You used to see her sat in her door as you say, you know when you were going past and she'd be puffing away on her clay pipe.
Aye. Now about gambling. Anybody in the family gamble?
R- Well me father ud have a three penny bet now and again or a tanner bet.
Aye.
R- No pounds or owt of that.
Where would, If he had a bet in Earby then, because there were no street licensed bookies like or owt like that, where would you put a bet on?
R- Well you know, these runners what there were.
(400)
That's it, bookies runners aye.
R- Aye there were allus one in the mill or in clubs.
Aye.
And I don't know, he got a tip or sommat off one of his cousins. He were a game keeper were his cousin and I don't think he knew owt about horses. And he must have told me father about this tip. There must have been some gentry up or sommat you know shooting, and they must have been throwing this tip about. And they called it Charlie’s Mount, I allus remember and it won the Cesarewitch and I think it were hundred to one outsider and it were coupled with another horse and they both came up. And it were very hush hush at home like but we knew me father had won some money 'cause he bought me a pair of new boots, Beaver boots.
Aye they were good boots them.
R- Them were good boots 'cause he allus had a pair of Beavers for when he were going out into the fields and I’d started going wi’ him a lot you know. So he bought me a pair an all out of this winnings. He’d about hundred pound to come or sommat like that wi’ this double.
Aye, Christ, it were the price of a house in them days.
R- It were a fortune you know were that, and anyway he’d telled one or two of his mates and they'd all had a good do on it you know. There were about happen three tacklers then and they’d had a do on it and they more or less cleared this bookie out.
(25 mins)
Aye.
R- He were only like a threepence and a tanner bookie.
Aye. Who were that then, who were the bookie? Do you know?
R- No. But there were a fella called Tom Waddington and it might have been him.
Aye. You know it reminds me of a very similar thing to that. When I were working at West Marton, this isn't all that long ago, on tankers. There were a fella there called Harry Robinson, oh and he were a beggar for horses. Allus backing horses you know and always studying form, racing page, this that and t’other and he used to go and do a bit of fishing each weekend somewhere up the Lune Valley. I don't know where it were, he lived up at Ingleton. And he got to the stage where he was going regularly with this fella who was a
(450)
trainer up at Leyburn. And every now and again this fella would give him a tip and
I never backed horses at all. I did once ... I used to back 'em a fair bit and then once I backed a horse and I won a fair bit of money and I said that was last time I’d ever back a horse. I said I'd be one of the few people in the country that were in front of bookies.
R- Aye.
And funnily enough that were the Cesarewitch. Well this is another story, but I won this money and the bookie [Tommy Fitton] said I were dead lucky, and I were drunk that night and I said I’ll tell you what to do, pick me a second favourite for tomorrow but tell me what it is now. And he looked in the evening paper for runners for the following day and he picked out a second favourite. I said reight, put it all on that one to win. I got three hundred and odd quid when it won. He wanted to pay me in the pub and 1 wouldn’t let him. I said no, I’ll call for it and I put it straight in the bank. I didn't spend a halfpenny of it.
R- No.
Anyway this Harry Robinson were going wi’ this bloke and he kept giving him these horses and these horses actually were fixed. They must have been because every one he give him won, every one, it was like a dream come true. And you know, you kept saying to him how are you going on Harry, how did you go on this week and he used to tell us what they were you know. When he got 'em he used to say back this one it's another one off matey. Well, one or two of 'em had a bit of a do, you know, but not so much. And it finished up the man had given thirteen horses on the trot and they were all winners bar one and he were told don't back that one if it's raining. Don’t back it if the going’s wet. And it were Christmas and I were coming from Halifax. Harry Robinson had a habit of calling in at Denholme Gate pub in between Halifax and
(500)
Keighley on his way down to West Marton wi’ skim from Halifax. Well, on his way to Settle wi’ skim like. And I called in there one Christmas, it were a reight cold day, and I called in for a whisky, I were frozen because there were no heater in the wagon. And I called in for a whisky and the landlord says “You’re one of Harry's mates aren’t you?” I said “Aye.” He says “Are you going back to West Marton?” It were Christmas day. I said Aye, I’m going back there now. And then I've finished for the day.” That's why I was frozen, the tank were empty, there were no load on you know, I had no weight. And he says “Will you take him something for me, will you be seeing him?” I said “Aye, because he's behind me.” He were saying will he be calling in. I said I doubt it, he'll be wanting to get home.” He says, “Well, will you see him?” I said “I'm sure to see him.” See like he weren’t sure of him calling in but he knew I’d see him at the far end. He said “Give him this.” It were a case of whisky, either Long John or Queen Anne, I forget which. I said “Bloody hell, he’s clicked hasn’t he?” He said Oh, you know them horses he’s been getting? He said I’ve backed every one, I’ve made £8,000.
R- Aye?
Anyway, I got back and I give him this case of whisky and he never give me a bottle, I thought he might have done but I says to him, “Thee mate’s done alright out of t’job.” I said “How have you gone on?” He says “Oh, the trouble is I’ve been backing others.” I said, “I'll tell you what it is, you reckon to be a gambler, it's time you give up!”
R - Aye,
I said “If a fella can have thirteen bloody winners given him on trot and he still needs to back horses, it isn't money he's after, it’s just gambling.”.
R- Gambling aye.
(30 mins)
“So you want to give up.” Anyway he never did. Anyway, there you are, gambling. Can you remember when the family had it's first radio, first wireless, can you remember?
R- Our family'?
Yes.
R- Aye. [Laughs] We never had one at home. I bought one soon after I were wed, a second hand one. I got wed in 1932 and about 1933 I bought one and it were wi’ the old wet battery you know.
Aye.
R- And it were a Cossor and I gave four pound for it and it were just like new and I had it when I lived in the cottage. I lived in a cottage reight up on the tops and when I flit lower down
(550)
they had electric in, so I got a new one, electric. And me father had no electric in where he lived, so I give him this Cossor and when he got electric in...It were Jack Ellison that put it in for him and he said what are you going to do wi’ the old wireless. Well, he said, I'm going to get shut on it and get electric. He says, well I’ll tell you what I’ll do, if you get one off me I’ll allow you four pound ten for the old un. So he says, righto. I went up one night and he’d getten this new His Master’s Voice and he says I get four pound ten knocked off and he's taken th’old un wi’ him, so he says, you can have the four pound ten. ‘Cause it were my wireless to start wi’.
Aye.
R- So we did very well out of that wireless. Aye.
R- And there were do doubt, them batteries, they were sweet and there were no interference on 'em, because when you started on electric you got a lot of interference at beginning didn't you, crackling. They've overcome it now but it were bad in them days.
No, battery sets actually were better than the first mains sets you reckon.
R- Oh yes a lot better. Aye, aye.
R- Aye, I used to go up and I used to listen to th’old Cossor and I’d left me own at home and I thought eh, he’s getten the best set.
Aye. How about if you were playing outside. If you'd gone out to play outside, where did you usually play?
R- Up back street. Up back street aye.
What sort of games did you play?
R- Well, it were mostly tig or tin in ring. Whip and top you know, hide and seek.
Yes.
R- Them were the most popular games. Then if we managed to get a ball we used to go into the old Grammar School yard. Well it were a gentleman's club and they used to shift us out.
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They were frightened of us looking through window and seeing ‘em gambling I think.
Aye.
R- We used to have to get us playing in afore they started coming at about half past seven at night, course it were going to bed time then.
Yes. When you say gentleman's club, who'd be the sort of people that ud be attending that club?
R- Business people and manufacturers.
Aye, that's it aye.
R- They called it gentleman's club and it were in the grammar school, they took it over did this club...
Aye.
R- When it were empty.
Aye.
R- There were a billiard table in you know there. I believe there were some fair good billiard players went to it in them days.
Mm. Who did you play with?
R- Well, there were a lad up back street, actually we’d gone mates ever since we could remember one another, since we were, we grew up together.
Yes.
R- And then his father were a piano player. And he got playing at one of the cinemas in Nelson and they flit to Nelson and then it got from one thing to the other while this lad and his mother came back to Earby to live wi’ his aunty up the same back street. They’d parted had the father and mother and the father never came back any more and we went mates up to him dying. There weren’t so many gone mates as long as him and me.
Who ware that Fred?
R- They called him Haydn Hargreaves. He lived in Barlick for a while but he used to come down to Earby and I used to go to Barlick.
It’s funny, Haydn that's the composer isn't it like. His father a musician.
R- Aye well, that ud be it, aye.
Aye that's it. Aye, and how old were he when he died?
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R- Sixty four.
That’s a lot of years isn’t it.
R- We’d biked together you know, gone on bikes. He got a bike and I'd a bike, we travelled all ower when we got a bit older.
What sort of bike were it Fred?
(35 mins)
R- I had, I allus had to save a bit of sommat you know when I started work, penny in the shilling. I used to earn twenty four shilling, [so I got] twenty four pence. I went to call at the Co-op bank, put sixpence in when we were coming home.
Aye.
R- If we managed to save another three pence or fourpence or sommat like that you know. Put it into the bank and I’d about ten pound in and I think it were twelve pound were this bike and I drew eight pound out and me father put t’other to and I got a bike and me brother got a bike and me father had a bike. In fact me father had a bike when there weren’t a reight lot of folk had a bike. There were just odd uns. And they used to set off at weekend, well at Saturdays and Sundays, Saturday afternoon when he weren’t gardening. They thought they'd done sommat if they went to Morecambe and stopped two or three days and then biked it back
Well, they had hadn't they.
R - Aye on them roads in them days.
Yes, aye.
R- And then when we started you know, at sixteen and seventeen year old, we were going to Morecambe and back in the day.
Aye.
R- And Blackpool and back.
Yes.
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R - In fact we went one time did Haydn and me, it were July holidays, we’d be about sixteen. He were sixteen on the twelfth of July and I were, my birthday were December you know, there weren’t much in us. And we went to Morecambe and stopped all night. 3/6d. Tea, bed and breakfast and then we went to, what do they call it, Conder Green over Cockerham Marsh, Pilling Sands to Blackpool. Stopped all night at Blackpool and then came home day after, well we'd had a marvellous holiday.
Aye.
R- July holidays. But me brother were the keenest cyclist, he did do a lot of biking.
Did he join a cycle club?
R- Yes he were In that, C.T.C. and eh, what were t’other? Clarion.
Were he? Narthen what year were this roughly?
R- Well he’d be about sixteen.
What year were he born?
R - 1906.
1922. Clarion, you know what the start of the Clarion was do you?
R- Aye. It were a Socialist movement weren’t it.
That's it. Tell me what you know about that Fred, tell me what you know about that. Very interesting that because there aren’t many people know anything about this.
R - Well it were like a fellowship and a fella at Barlick were the main man old Pop Hill they called him and there's a seat now going out of Bracewell...
There is.
R- And he were the instigator round here and there were Clarion Houses, were there one at Ribchester? One out of Colne? I don't remember 'em all. ‘Cause me brother used to go. And you could get a big pot of tea for about tuppence (two pence) and you could stop all t’night for about a shilling and there were ladies, they weren’t just fellas like. But they were mixed company. But they had a hand book and I can allus remember this hand book what me brother had and there were the Red Flag in it you know.
Aye.
R- All the words for the Red Flag and I think I've heard him say at night, when they were all gathered in, you know, and they were talking and then they'd sing the Red Flag. It were a real Socialism.
Yes.
R- It were a real Socialist friendly society which ud happen be a good do if there were some today what were the same like. They weren’t hot headed or owt of that, it were helping one another.
Would It surprise you to know that there's still one of the Clarion houses left?
R- At Colne.
At Dimpenley behind Roughlee
(40 mins)
R- Aye?
Aye it's still there. And you can go there on a Sunday and it's staffed wi’ volunteer's and you can go in there and get a big pint pot of tea and a chocolate biscuit for about five or six pence.
R- Aye.
And you can sit there under a picture of Kier Hardie and enjoy your pot of tea.
It's still there. A wooden hut, Clarion House.
R- Aye well, it must have been alright in me fathers ideas ‘cause he never said owt about him.
Yes, well the start of the Clarion actually, as I understand it, there was a paper, a socialist paper brought out by a fella called Blatchford.
R- Blatchford aye.
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That's it and it were called The Clarion.
R- Aye.
And none of these, when they originally brought it out, none of these, of course these newspaper distributors were, they'd all be red hot Tory you see and they wouldn't distribute this paper. And, as I understand it the Clarion cycle clubs were formed to distribute the Clarion paper because it was the only way they could get it distributed you see to the people that wanted to buy it. And from that sprang what they call the Clarion movement and that's why you'll still find in a lot of towns, you'll find that the local cycling club is still called The Clarion. Even though now there’s nothing but a cycling club.
R- Yes.
The roots of it go back to the start of the socialist movement in 1885-1890. That's where the roots go back to, and it's very interesting that 'cause there's very few people will know anything about that now.
R- Well I’d forgot most on it but I know me brother were very keen. And me father ud say, “Where you going today?” “Oh I'm going wi’ the Clarion.”
Aye.
R- And then another time, “I'm going wi’ the C.T.C.” I think it were, they come from Nelson somewhere did C.T.C.
Yes.
R- Cyclists Touring Club.
That's it aye, the winged wheel, aye.
R - They had their badges and that sort of thing.
That's it yes. Did you ever go out collecting berries, you know, blackberries or picking or...
R- We used to get blackberries and Whinberries up on the moor.
Aye, bilberries aye. What did you do with them when you collected them?
R- Me mother used to bake pies wi’ it.
That's it.
R- Happen make some jam, a bit of jam.
Aye. One of my lasses, every year when bilberries are on, she did it about three years ago the first time, the youngest one. She, and I were reight suited first time I saw her do it. She went out, picked some bilberries, come back, made some pastry, made a pie and sat down and ate the bloody thing all on her own!
R- Aye. Good. [Fred laughs]
And they were all playing hell because she wouldn't give ‘em any. I said she's just doing exactly right.
R- Go and get some eh?
I said that's just the way to do it. I said the only thing I’m worried about is in case she makes herself sick. Because by God it were a big pie, but she ate the lot.
R- [Fred laughs]
She made some custard an all. She says I don’t want any dinner, I’m going to have this. It were a Sunday and I said “You've just done right Janet. You're alright.”
R- Weren’t it stained if it got on to the table cloth or owt.
Aye.
R- It were terrible for staining weren’t it.
Aye. It ud make good dye wouldn't it.
Anyone in the family go fishing?
R- No.
No. Your father were a shooting man like weren’t he.
R- That’s it. Aye, ferret and...
Aye. What did he do wi’ owt he got, you know? You know anything he got were it for the pot?
R- Oh, he nearly allus had customers waiting for rabbits and that sort of thing..
Aye.
R- ‘Cause they made a good meal for folk didn't they? I can remember coming home, we’d been, you know, walked to Elslack and come back and it's been dark when we've got back. And it's take Mother Hacking this rabbit up. That were a woman that used to work under him and she lived up by the station. And I used to get this rabbit, he used to lap [wrap] it in paper. “Now don't let any dogs get it.”
Aye.
R- And I used to go. It were a shilling for a rabbit and I allus used to get a penny off her for taking it up. That were a good do.
Aye.
R- Although I’d been walking round you know and I weren’t so old, happen nine or ten year old and then I'd trail up there but I used to get a penny.
Aye.
R- And there were one or two, they'd happen see him setting off like. “If tha gets one, let me have one.” And in fact there were a farmer at Booth Bridge, and we had to go past Booth Bridge and she used to shout out, “Think on if tha gets one or two, leave me one.”
Who were that Vince Wilkinson?
R- Eh, what did they call 'em? Not Louis, no it were long afore Louis, eh I know the name well enough. Anyway he weren’t getting rabbits on her land, he were getting 'em a bit further ower.
Aye.
R- She'd allus have one, a shilling.
Ernie were brought up on rabbits just about you know. Have I told you about Fred and the gun.
R- Aye and the gun.
Aye and ball bearings. Aye.
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(45 mins.)
R- But I’ve seen, when we used to come home me mother ud have the tea ready but the first thing me dad ever did, he cleaned the gun.
Aye.
R- That were cleaned afore he had his tea.
That's it. Aye.
R- And put away. And I can remember, we had some drawers in a recess, and one drawer it had a lock on, and that were where he kept his cartridges. He kept the key in his pocket.
Aye.
R- Nobody could get in there. Which you know, we’d more sense than do it but probably if some of us mates ud have been in they might have been tempted to pinch one or sommat like that.
Aye, well you want to get Ernie to tell you about laiking about wi’ the powder flask and blowing the bloody kitchen up.
R- [Fred laughs] Aye, dangerous stuff.
‘Cause that's what he did at home. He blew the kitchen up and it's a wonder he didn't kill his self.
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SCG/12 April 2003
8,093 words.