THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON THE 12TH OF OCTOBER 1978 AT 14 STONEYBANK ROAD, EARBY. THE INFORMANT IS FRED INMAN, TACKLER AND THE INTERVIEWER IS STANLEY GRAHAM.
And we're carrying straight on from the last tape. Now you were going to tell me about Bancrofts, you were on about Bancrofts.
R- Yes, well Bancrofts were....
That were the name of farmers at Booth Bridge at Thornton that you couldn’t think of.
R- Yes and he also had two brothers and I think there’d be two sisters at Brown House. Brown house were a very big farm and we used to go down there. They always had some geese at Christmas down at Brown House and somebody mentioned it to me, asked me whether I knew where they could get a goose. So we walked down to Brown House, went to know if they had any to spare and they had two. So me father says well, so and so wants one. And then he came back and he says you're all reight, they have a goose for you down at Brown House. Then someone else says, I wish I’d known, I could have done with one. Well he says, there’s another one, he has two. There were no telephones nor owt of that you know so we walked down again, 1 think we walked down in moonlight or sommat like that at night. I were only ?, we weren’t reight big. And then at Christmas time me father went down and I can remember, we didn't go, but he carried 'em up in one of them big butter baskets what they used to have.
Aye. A wicker basket.
R - Carried these home. Aye, fetched them home, delivered 'em and then we’d happen broken up for Christmas. We’ll say Christmas were at Saturday, we had Friday off school and we’d to take this basket back had me brother and me. And when we got there, I’ll allus remember it. She were baking were Miss. Bancroft, Now then, could you eat a mince pie and a glass of milk? She filled us a glass of milk up and mince pie apiece straight out of the oven. We must have relished these mince pies and “Don't you want your milk.” “Oh, yes.” So we just had a sip. “Could you eat another mince pie?” “Yes please.” And we finished up with three mince pies apiece. Well we were as happy as could be! We could hardly get back home to tell me mother like we’d had three mince pies straight out of the oven. And they weren’t little uns you know!
No
R- They were real nudgers. [A nudger is a local name for something big, like a big stone when you are walling.]
Reight pies aye...
R- That big! [Indicates over three inches across.]
Nudgers! [Stanley laughs]
R- And it allus stuck in me mind did that. And I can remember when we were going past one time, quite a while after,. she said Oh, them lads did enjoy them mince pies when they fetched the basket back. Me father says they could hardly get back home fast enough to tell their mother what a good do they’d had! But today, ask a kid to walk to Booth Bridge wi’ an empty basket, not on spec of getting owt.
(50)
Aye.
They says I'm not going down there. I'm not going down there. And we were happy.
Aye, things have changed Fred.
R- Yes changed.
When you look back, you know, you say things have changed. In what way do you think things have changed since you were a lad. You know, the sort of thing that you were talking about.
R- Well I think meself, well you did more as you got told in them days. If your father said you've got to go to Booth Bridge or Brown house, you'd to go to Booth Bridge or Brown House.
Aye.
R- But to-day, “Oh, I’m not going.” or I’ll go on the bus or you
know, they wouldn't think of walking the way we used to walk. I've gone down at Saturday morning to Fence End ... big house at Fence End, what do they call it. Proctors lived there then...
Aye now wait a minute. what's the name of it? Wait a minute let's get the name of it. I know the name, t’other side of Thornton there, down the drag you mean.
R - Yes aye.
No, we'll remember it. we'll come to it. We both know the name of it.
(5 mins)
R- Queens Mead now.... They call it that now.
They call it that now but it a different name before then.
[I think the house there was called Fence End. It was called that at the end of the 19th century and was the home of the Rev William Atkinson Wasney.]
R- Oh yes. And me father was pally with the farmer’s man there and he allus had a ferret on.
Aye.
R- And me father allus had a ferret.
This in at Fence End isn’t it?
R- Yes.
Aye.
R- And me father ud say go down to Fence End and fetch that ferret back this morning.
Aye.
R- I'm going out this afternoon.
Who had that farm then, were it Waite?
No, Proctor belonged all the land round there,
Aye.
R- And it were Proctor and Proctor the chartered accountants, that lot.
Oh them from Burnley, aye.
R - And gas works, the gas works man and all. [I think Fred means Captain Smith who Horace Thornton mentioned as living at Thornton and being a major shareholder in the Mill Company and the Earby Gas and Light Company together with his brother in law, Jacques. There was a connection between these two and Proctor and Proctor at Burnley through the management of the Mill Company in Earby.]
Did they own gas works at Earby an all, aye. They're still going that firm you know, they were accountants for the Calf hall Shed Co.
R - Aye and for a lot of mill companies weren't they. Well we used to ... well I walked down on me own all the way to Fence End and fetched the ferret back for me father. Set off about eight o'clock and I didn’t allus get to go wi’ me father. Like you know he’d say you've been far enough this morning 'bout walking down to E1slack again, go to the pictures this afternoon and have a rest he’d say. Somebody else had happen wanted to go wi’ him.
Aye.
(100)
R- And then, same as at Sunday, after t’dinner he’d say we'll take him, his ferret, back. And we used to walk down to Fence End, and take the ferret back and then walk back home.
When you were working ferrets Fred did you line 'em or muzzle 'em or just let 'em go or what?
R- It varied. It varied, sometimes he muzzled 'em but not often.
Aye, did you ever see him line one? Run one on a line?
R- Only time I've seen him run one on a line it were if one were stuck or weren’t coming out. He’d tie some band on another and let it go in.
Yes.
R- That's the only time.
Aye.
R- Sometimes like they used to follow ‘em out didn't they.
Aye.
R- But I've read about these liners, they run 'em on a line didn't they. Pulled 'em out.
I never liked it.
R- No.
I never liked muzzling 'em either. What sort of muzzles did he use? Did he muzzle 'em wi’ band... Or did he use...
R- Band, all band.
Aye. Your father were an out door man weren’t he. Like I mean, if he had any spare time, if he weren’t gardening he’d be out wouldn't he.
R- Out.
And how about your mother, could she ever go out in her spare time, you know if she had any. You know, evenings spare or sommat?
R- She’d happen go to somebody else’s house.
That ud be about it would it?
R- That were it aye.
How about chapel or you know, friendly hour or...
R- No, she didn't go. She’d go to church sometimes if, sometimes at Sunday somebody ud come to visit. If they lived at Kelbrook and they used to come down to our house and then me mother ud go to church wi’ ‘em at night.
Aye they'd go together.
R- But as I was talking about this farmer down at Fence End, it were a regular do, moonlight nights him and his wife ud walk up and his wife ud stop at our house and then me father and him ud go to the Band Club and have an hour or an hour and a half there you know. And then they had to walk back again to Fence End, there were no buses in them days. [The thing here that modern readers might miss here is that it had to be a moonlight night so that they could see there way in the dark to walk home.]
Aye.
R- Aye and they used to enjoy it.
Yes. Would you say that that were fairly common like? You know, fellas going to the pub and the wife stopping at home?
R- Aye. I wouldn’t say me father went out boozing a right lot, like you know, he’d happen have a gill and a game at snooker or some billiards in them days.
Aye.
R - I think it were more or less to get out while me mother got kids to bed and that sort of thing.
Aye. One of the things that strikes me about talking to people of your generation is the way that, you know, women were, they were very much second class citizen's weren’t they.
R - Oh they were.
I don’t think that that’s just an impression. I don't think there's any doubt about that in there, you know.
R- No. They were second class and they were willing to do it. They were willing to be, they didn't know owt any different I don’t think.
That's it, aye, with the way they'd been reared.
R- It were the way they'd been fetched up.
(150) 10 mins.
One of the greatest things about that in other parts of the country, one of the greatest things that made breakdowns in that sort of attitude were the first World War. Because during the first world war a lot of women went out to work who would never have gone out to work otherwise but that didn't really apply up here because I mean women had been weaving since the industry began. But even so, the fact that they were going out to work didn't really liberate them. It didn’t make any difference to their status up here.
R- No. No they were still muggins, aye they were definitely mugs.
Well in some ways even worse because they had the house work to do and the kids to look after.
R- Aye, and go out to work.
Mill an all and many a time look after kids an all.
R- Aye and when you talk about taking youngsters out, it were the woman that had to carry 'em under the shawl and .......
Aye.
R - Taken ‘em and fetched ‘em back again at night. Father didn't, he didn't carry ‘em out, it were allus the mother.
Yes, like if they were going to be nursed like while she were at the mill, aye. There’s a lot to be said for women’s lib. Did your mother and father ever go out together?
R- Oh yes. Pictures. First house at pictures many a time. [There were two performances or ‘houses’ each night. First house was probably six until eight.]
What day were that usually if they went?
R- Saturday.
Fairly regular do.
R- Yes.
Oh, that's not so bad then is it.
R- Or if there were any varieties on or sommat like that they’d go.
Were there anything like that in Earby?
R- Oh yes, aye.
Where at?
R- Empire.
At the picture house.
R- Picture house.
Had they a stage?
R- Oh yes aye. Aye it were a lovely place and there were what they called the Earby Amateur Operatic Society and they used to give a show every year, you know Mikado or Gondoliers and various things.
Aye.
R- And then there were a fella called Johnny Moorhouse, he were a composer. He composed music for brass bands and music for orchestras and he also composed musical comedies. And there have been some real tip top comedies on at the Empire and he's written everything.
And he lived in Earby?
R- Yes. Words and music all through, all been Johnny Moorhouse.
Aye.
R - And these people what used to live at Fence End, me father used to have to make sure, you know, book these tickets for Saturday night and they allus came up at Saturday night. I've seen 'em land up and they've been all, well wet you know. Big umbrella up, happen change their stockings and their shoes when they landed to our house, they'd be wet through.
Aye.
R- Still they enjoyed it. Then he had to have a lamp off one of the carts. You know, if it weren’t reight light..
(200)
Aye, a cart lamp.
R- That were more like for safety I think.
Aye.
R- Like we've gone down there, happen a horse and trap or sommat like that passed you, that's all you've seen.
Aye. Were there any motors about then Fred?
R- No.
When can you remember seeing your first motor?
R- Well, the first motor what came into Earby were at, you know we allus called it Lina, Punch Bowl.
Yes.
R- Somebody called Caswell had it and it were one of them Fords, Tin Lizzy.
Aye a Model T.
R- Mm.
Aye, when were that about, can you remember?
R - It ud be just after the war.
Aye, just after the fourteen war.
R- I wouldn't like to say just what date it were.
Where could he get petrol for that round here then?
R- Well funnily enough there were a shop on Water Street and they called it Frank Wilkinson & Son and he used to sell bicycles and they also sold petrol in tins.
Aye in tins.
R- They had it stored outside in tins. And motor bike's used to pull up you know and get half a gallon or whatever they wanted. They allus had a tin on the side had motor cars in them days. A two gallon tin strapped on side. Some that had got bigger models they had two tins strapped on for chance they were somewhere and they couldn't get any. Get there selves home. That were the first I can remember.
Aye and they all had brass tops didn't they, You can’t remember what sort of petrol it were can you?
R- Pratt's.
Pratt's aye.
(15 mins)
Right so that’s Pratt’s petrol and the first motor. That’s not a bad thing to get on to tape is it?
R- No.
Did you go to church regular?
R- Sunday school.
How about the family, did your dad go to church?
R- Very, very seldom.
Your mother?
R- Aye me mother used to go fairly regularly.
Which one?
R- Church of England, All Saints.
Aye, that's it over the crossings there.
R- But before that there were what they called the ‘tin church’ where Armoride’s is now. There were a tin church there.
When were that church built then? All Saints?
About 1910 or 1911, I think that were it.
Oh aye.
R- When we were young and going to Sunday School it were in the tin church...
(250)
Aye.
R- What they called the new church were there but Sunday school and any social events were all in the tin church. They called it tin church because it were corrugated iron.
Aye, that's it aye. Well where were the church for Earby before the tin church? Which were the old church for Earby?
R- Oh, Thornton.
Thornton.
R- Thornton, Earby were Thornton parish.
Aye...
R- And that tin church were just a handy sort of a do for if it were wet and that.
That's it.
R- But all marriages and that were at Thornton, deaths, funerals it all had to come through Thornton.
[The arrangements at Barlick were similar. St James in what became Church Street was a ‘chapel of ease’ under Gill Church. All weddings and funerals had to be at Gill.]
Aye that's it. And can you remember any social events connected with the church you know, like what you went to.
R- Christmas party, that were about all that I can remember and Walking days.
Aye walking days that ud be Whit Sunday wouldn't it here.
R- No. They didn't walk at Whitsuntide at Earby. No, it ud be, I think it were May, sometime in May were walking day. All the Sunday schools walked. It were all an amalgamated procession.
Aye that's it aye.
R- And there’d be hundreds and hundreds and there were horse and cart wi’ a harmonium on and it used to stop at various places and conductor and playing and singing hymns on us way round.
How about Salvation Army in Earby? Were there one?
R- Aye they started one up in Earby but it didn't last so long.
No it's never seemed to be as strong in Earby as it were like in Barlick has it.
R - No, no.
What would you say, which sort of folk would you say went to church?
R- Well, I don't think there were much difference between any of them, whether they went to the Baptists or not. There were rich and poor went to Sunday school 'cause like they had to do.
Aye. Ernie draws a lot of distinction between what he calls Methodists [and others]. I mean you know what he’s like about Methodists you know. I mean obviously Ernie is, you know he's prejudiced to some extent. Have you ever come across that sort of
prejudice before about Methodists?
R- No I never found it so meself but Ernie had reason hadn't he, 'cause he were never helped were he wi’t religion weren’t Ernest.
(300)
No. No and family troubles an all. Would you say that they mixed well at church or were some of 'em a bit stand offish, you know.
R- Thee were certain, say like, if Birleys ever came and one or two of these, I can’t just fetch there names to mind now but they thought they wore more than anybody else you know. They’d have liked to have been the squire of the village or sommat like that. But they were just too late.
[Stanley laughs] That's it, too late, aye. Turn my noisy piece of paper over. How about outings or visits when you were young. You know, special days out, if you went for a special day out.
R- Oh it were allus walking.
Yes.
R- Well I'm saying walking, me mother, well it were me aunty, she had a sister at Brierfield and sometimes at Saturday me mother ud take me brother and me, go to Earby station, on the train from Earby to Colne then on the tram from Colne to Colne and Nelson Boundary and then walk from there to Nelson and we’d meet me aunty and two of me cousins.
(20 mins)
Didn't trams go into Nelson?
R- Oh yes but you could only afford to go so far. And we’d meet them, they'd walk from Brierfield to Nelson, we’d meet them and go round the shops and market and then we’d walk back to Brierfield and have us tea at Brierfield and then coming back we’d get a tram, probably all way to Colne and then on the train from Colne home to Earby. But part on it had to be walked although you know, it were only a copper or two. We’d be saving about threepence or fourpence.
Aye. Well, you’re talking about saving threepence or fourpence, how much were a loaf of bread then?
R- Aye that's it aye. You could get a loaf of bread for that couldn't you.
Yes. That's one of the things that struck me, I thought it was very good. 1 once read somewhere that people talk about the way wages kept up with the price of stuff you know. Now suppose that at about that time wages were just about keeping up with what little inflation there was. But somebody pointed out that at the same time, like the invention of the
(350)
tram actually dropped the wage of the working man because he only had to go on a tram ride, a tuppenny tram ride, and that were half a loaf of broad less.
R- That's it instead of walking.
Which in effect lowered his wage, you know, it's a funny way of looking at it but it works. Can you ever remember any of your family being connected with the Temperance movement Fred?
R- Well, that’s a funny thing is that. When we went to Sunday school, I'd happen be about thirteen and they were having some special classes and lectures with this new parson what they'd got and it were all on Temperance and you'd to write an essay on Temperance. I wrote one and I got a certificate for it, Temperance. And I still have the certificate at home and there's a lot of cod about it now you know. In them days I wrote and won a certificate, talking about the alcohol and all that sort of stuff.
Did you actually sign the pledge?
R- Aye you’d to more or less sign the pledge an all.
Aye that's it.
R- I, Fred Inman, you know, when you got this certificate. It’s somewhere 'cause my wife wouldn't part wi’ it. {Fred laughs] Oh no, she thinks the world of that!
I should think so too.
R- Because she keeps reminding me about it!
You know the famous story about the fella that gave the Temperance lecture don't you, he stood up in the hall and he had two glasses on the table and one had water in and the other had whisky in and he has this worm and he says, now I want you to watch this. He dropped the worm into the glass with the water in and he held it up, you know, and the worm's swimming round in the water. He says, there you are, this worm is perfectly at home in this water, it's doing it no harm at all. Now then, watch this. And he fished the worm out of the water and dropped it into the glass of whisky and the worm immediately went into a cork screw and expired. And he held it up, he said, now then friends, look at that. What does that mean? And a voice came from the back of the hall – “If you've got worms drink whisky!” [Fred and Stanley both laugh] Aye, which would be about right. And so they told you all about the evils of drink there did they.
R- Yes, yes you learnt all that.
And what did they tell you about the evils of drink, can you remember what they actually told you.
No I can’t remember at all.
(400)
Can you remember seeing women going into pubs?
R- Just occasionally.
What sort of women were they?
R- Well, they didn't go to work. I'm going back a long, long while, well there were two in particular in Earby, and whatever money they could get they'd spend it on drink. I don't know how their husbands went on with them. They must have had to stick hold of the money and do their own shopping and all that, but as long as these women could get hold of a tanner they'd be into the pub.
What sort of drink were that Fred, ale or gin?
R- Ale, they wouldn't be able to afford gin.
Aye.
R- One woman in particular, we were coming home from school at four o'clock and they had her laid on a handcart had these policemen. Two policemen, they were pushing her home, she were paralytic. Well we followed her all the way up Aspin Lane, the police pushing this here hand cart, we followed her up. It were sommat you know to see a woman so drunk she couldn't stand up.
(25 mins)
Aye. That's it aye.
R- Bobbies wheeling her home on a hand cart.
What would people think about women going into pubs then.
R- Oh they were dead against it. They were low, they used to call ‘em low women you know. Women of easy virtue and that sort of thing.
Aye.
R- 'Cause they were. Now when I'm older and I can look back, they were, they were very, very loose were the majority on ‘em.
Yes, aye. Would you say, now I don't know how to put this, I mean, we're talking about people lecturing you on drink. Did anybody ever lecture you about sex, or on the evils of being promiscuous or anything like that.
R- Oh this parson he used to talk on that occasionally.
Aye. Keep you straight like.
R - Yes.
Aye.
R- But I allus looked at it this way and I've looked at it since. I sort wheat from chaff.
Aye.
R- You know, I learnt a lot and there's a lot on it I didn't want to remember and I forgot about that but I remembered what I thought were good for me.
Aye, sorted it out for yourself.
R - I sorted it out for meself.
It's always seemed to me to be a very good way. I'll tell you what, I don't know whether you'd agree with this but I always think that one of the best ways of educating children about sex is to let them have animals.
(450)
R - Yes.
See cattle about and calving and all rest of it.
R- Aye well like I've allus had dogs and our Jack were fetched up wi’ 'em and such.
Yes.
R- Once, I can remember his mother were saying sommat to him. She were just going to approach him you know, happen explain a bit of sex to him. Look he says, don’t say owt about it, Mr Armitage, that were the school master, has told us all that if we want to know anything more and we don't feel like approaching us parents we can approach him at any time. I thought well, that were very good.
And who were that, that's not so long since is it?
R- Well what will he be? He’ll be about thirty sommat now.
Aye.
R- And that were when he were about twelve.
Aye.
R- Aye he were a school master and he were one of them that started it, you know, free and easy.
Yes.
R- He weren’t a really strict un but he instilled all this sex and you know, right and wrong of sex and all that.
Aye.
R- And he used to take ‘em off for week-ends and happen at holidays for three or four days. Take 'em camping and canoeing.
Aye.
R- Well, that, in a lot of ways, he were too easy going. But in a lot of other ways he did a lot for children and I allus remember what's he's done for our Jack. Teaching 'em to swim and then he took them on a river and they'd have a canoe and nobody had to go in that canoe unless they'd passed so much swimming and lifesaving and all that.
Aye, that's it aye.
R- And I've seen him go off and they'd come back and their soap’s never been taken out of the paper what he’s taken! [Fred laughs] And he's come back wi’ a weeks growth on and they've had a real good time.
(500)
Aye.
R- Free and easy. Swimming in the river, it happened to be a good week and they were doing nowt only swimming in the river and canoeing all week.
Aye. aye not a bad way to be.
R- No.
Did you know of any families that you know, in the days that we’re talking about, round about the 1920s like, you know that were actually ruined wi’ drink.
R- Aye. Yes, lads and lasses they were nearly all big families where the father were boozers you know. I mean they were very, very poor. All hand me downs and what other folk had given 'em and all that. Ernest told about wearing lasses shoes, button shoes, and you’d see them same. Happen wi’ one clog and one shoe, one clog too big and another too little and well, in fact some on 'em smelled. They'd never know what a bath were or to be washed properly or owt of that. They hadn't even a handkerchief or not even a piece of rag, all they'd do is wipe their nose on their sleeve.
Aye that's it, aye.
R- I know some of them lads and lasses and they've turned out really good, what were fetched up very, very rough. ‘Cause they saw enough at home and I suppose they thought well if I get wed it it’ll be a different carry on. And they've been really good parents.
(30 mins)
Yes I think that’s perhaps one of nature’s ways you know. I’ve often thought that meself, I think that's perhaps one of nature’s ways. I mean if they see the rough side of something like that.. I mean for instance, I know several young women that are quite straight laced for this day and age, quite straight laced and you'll nearly always find that their mothers were buggers, you know.
R- Yes, aye.
You know. I mean what you’d say loose, really loose. And yet they 're what you'd call straight laced, really too far the other way. But they've seen one side of it and it's put 'em off.
(550)
R - Oh it must have been hell on earth you know for some of them kids, mustn’t it.
Oh, when you think.
R- They didn't know what it were to get owt reight to eat.
When you think about it Fred.
R- I doubt whether they'd have any soap in the house some on ‘em.
Well you know the old saying, if one half of the world knew how the other half lived, Of course, that’s what these tapes are all about. It's so as people can find out how other people lived. In the local pub were there certain rooms for certain people. You know like were there a tap room, best room and snug?
R- Oh there were tap room and best rooms and what do they...oh what else do they call ‘em ... smoke rooms and various rooms.
There used to be the singing room didn't there at some pubs.
R- Bar parlour, there were all sorts of distinctions.
Aye. Can you ever remember any street performers in Earby? You know, anybody busking, you know?
R- Aye I can remember organ grinders coming round wi’ a monkey.
What sort of organ? Two wheels or one on a stick?
R- Two wheels. I can’t remember them on stick.
Aye.
R- Two wheels and then I can just remember ‘em coming round wi’ a bear, a performing bear.
With a performing bear!
R- Yes.
Aye?
R- And then after they'd been, we all used to laik, we used to call it addy-on-conkay. Somebody ud be in a sack and he’d be tied up and you know he’d have to dance and he were supposed to be the bear.
Aye?
R- And he used to shout addy-on-conkay. And he’d be dancing about in the sack and then when he’d had a do, he got out and t’others went in.
You’re intriguing me about this bear. How long ago's that Fred?
R- Well I don't think I'd be above five or six. [about 1914?]
Aye.
R- You know things stick in your mind that could nearly have happened Aye, when you were three year old.
Oh yes, easy.
R- And it sticks in your mind and that's stuck.
Yes. I can remember something you know and nobody believes
(600)
I can remember it. I can remember watching a steam crane working on Merseyway at Stockport and I can see that crane in my minds eye as clear as day. And I was born in February 1936 and Merseyway was opened to the public at the end or 1936. So I was less than one year old.
R- Aye well it is so.
And 1 can remember watching that crane and I'll tell you somethin6 else I can remember, I can remember perfectly the details of the wood work on the shop front where the pram was when I was watching it. And I could take you to where that shop stood now. It's amazing, I've often thought about it, it makes you wonder what it is, something must have caught my attention then and it was just like a camera clicking and the shutter clicked and do you know I can shut my eyes now and honestly I can see it on the back of me eye lids. I could draw you that and I could drew you the fellas that were there. It were an old steam crane with a boiler stuck up at the back working away there. And I mean I was certainly less than a year old.
R- Well I can vaguely remember, especially if we're down in the White Lion and some of the older end starts talking about sommat, blooming heck I can remember about that.
Aye.
R- You know, when you look the date back you were only three or four years old.
Yea, that's it. You've just mentioned sommat there. The White Lion. I may forget it when we get round to it but we've been talking about pubs. Can you remember when Jacky Waterworth, when they got that fella boxing.
R- Boxing, aye! {Fred laughs]
Just tell me about that, can you remember much about it, when they persuaded ..there used to be a photograph in the White Lion..
R- Yes there were, aye, Jacky.
Is it still there of Jacky and them great trunks, great shorts down to below his knees?
(650) 35 mins.
R - Aye. Well It were Sammy Cragg and Jacky what were fighting. Well Sammy were a bit of a character, he’d been taken a prisoner twice in t’war you know, and escaped and that sort of thing and he were a bit of a boxer. Well I'm saying a bit of a boxer, held be as good as owt there were in Earby. And they arranged this 'cause Jacky fancied his self as a boxer, so they had it set out up in the top room, nobody ever went in the top room in them days. And eventually it gets out there’s going to be this boxing match. They had all the floor chalked, it were only oilcloth on the floor and they had it chalked like a ring and there were all the way round. And what did they call the fella? There were a fella there wi’ a microphone and nowt attached to it, just like the microphone. Anyway he were a real good commentator and he's taping this to the BBC - Jacky thought it were on BBC And when they went into the corner you know for break, they daubed lipstick on Jacky’s gloves and then when they went in Sammy let him hit him, you know, all red on his face you know. And they were shouting “Give ower Jacky! Tha’s gong to kill him!”
(Laughter from Stanley)
R - Jacky's preening his self and he give him another and Cragg ud go on the floor for about seven you know and this fellas commentating just to perfection. And Jackie went into his corner again “Tha’rt doing well Jacky, keep it up, there’s nobody ever knocked him out afore.” “I’ll knock him out, I’ll knock him out!” All lipstick again tha knows and he's covered in blood is Sammy and Jacky’s knocking him down two or three times, just managing to get up in time you know. And then when he’s in his corner, Jacky's sat there
(700)
doesn’t ail a thing you know and they’re wafting Sammy and massaging him and rubbing him and giving him smelling salts. Then when they thought he’d had enough like he just give Jacky a belt, about first time he’d hit him you know, he didn't hit him too hard but he'd had enough had Jacky when he did. [Fred nearly chokes laughing] So he stopped the fight then did the referee. And he got his photo taken did Jacky.
[Stanley is laughing] Aye it's still up there isn't it.
R - Aye.
Photo of Jacky.
R- And then they arranged a return and I think the police must have got to know sommat about it and he daren’t let *em have another do daren’t Sam Taylor, he were the landlord. You know it were, what would you call it? An exhibition or sommat and he weren’t licensed.
Aye.
R- So it didn’t come off again. But Jackie thought he were doing well and it were a real tip you know, if you'd have given a bob, which were a fair good do then. You'd have said I’ve getten a good bob's worth.
Aye, Oh I’ve heard 'em on about it many a time. About Jacky Waterworth. When Jacky Waterworth- fought Sammy Cragg. I've heard 'em on about it many a time and I've seen that photograph down there in the White Lion because he looks a bugger in them gurt shorts doesn’t he!
R- Aye. [more laughing from both]
Anyway, come on, let’s get back to straight and narrow. Did you belong to any clubs or societies before you left school Fred, you know like the church choir or Band of Hope or Scouts?
R - No . no.
It says here the Girls Friendly Society but you wouldn't belong to that. What did you think of Earby as a place to live in when you were young.
R - Well wi’ not knowing owt else I thought it were alreight Stanley.
Aye.
(750)
R - And even like when I'd been to me auntie’s at Brierfield and me uncle's at Keighley I were allus glad to get back.
Yes.
R- I never fancied living in them places.
Yes. On the whole would you say that you enjoyed your child-hood?
R- Yes I did.
Even though, I mean obviously, your father was like a bit of a disciplinarian.
R- That’s it aye.
Things had to be reight. but would you say he were fair?
R- Oh he were fair, yes.
Aye.
R- Oh you, I mean you got your good hidings but you didn't get 'em if you hadn't done owt. You'd done sommat to get one.
That’s it, if you got one you deserved it.
R - You deserved it aye. And you used to get 'em there were no doubt about it.
Would you say that one of the things about that Fred, I'm pushing you a little bit now I know, but would you say that one of the things about that was that you always knew exactly where you stood with your parents?
(40 mins)
R - Yes you did.
I often think that's one of the things, you know, that there's no doubt about. I often think that it doesn’t really matter if a parent's a bit too strict with their children or something like that as long as the children are never in any doubt as to exactly where they stand.
R - That's it aye. If me father says do sommat, you did it there and then, no ifs and buts. If you didn’t, well you could expect to get a bit of a welt or sommat like that. And same as, you come dashing in to back yard, come running into the house for sommat and left the gate open. Before you got what you'd gone into house for - get back and shut that gate even if you were going straight out again you’d to go back and shut the gate and then come in and get what you wanted.
I do same thing wi’ the kids now. I do the same thing with ‘em now.
(600)
R - And it does you good.
Well. there's a lot of people think I'm hard wi’ ‘em. They think I'm a bit hard wi’ me children. Mind you I’ve never hit them. I used to occasionally, when they were younger, I used to smack children’s legs you know, if they were being naughty. But one day I broke me dogs leg. And I never realised I’d done it and I said to Vera that day ... first thing I did were get hold of the vet you know, and I told him, I said I don’t care if you have to amputate that bloody dog’s leg. I want that dog keeping on the road. Anyway they pinned it and it cost me a bloody fortune but they mended it up. But I said to Vera at the time, 1 remember saying, that's it I said. That's the last time I ever hit kids. Because you know I were picking milk up at time and I could pick a twelve gallon kit of milk up which weighed hundred and sixty eight pound, and there could be twelve on the floor and it were a bloody good five foot up on to the wagon flat you know. And I just used to pick 'em up straight up off the floor, just put me hand, one hand under the rim and one on the handle. And plonk it straight on to the flat, never bothered me you know. Well you know you don't realise your own strength you know.
R- You don't, no.
And I tell you I broke that dog’s leg that day. And honestly I didn't, I never did anything. I mean all I did were just grab hold of it but you know you don’t realise do you. You don't realise the power you have in you and I just said to her that's it. 'Cause Vera’s often told me she says you know, she says, you're trouble is you don't know how strong you are. I get hold of her and give her a squeeze, Christ you could hear her bloody ribs creak.
R - Well I will say this, I've instilled it into them grandchildren of ours. I bet they never come in but what they shut the gate.
Oh aye.
R- And they shut gate when they go out.
(850)
Aye but I mean if they know where they stand and all the rest of it. Can you remember going to a wedding when you were young?
R- Not to a wedding in church or chapel but to a wedding tea. It were a weaver what, you see the mother were a weaver and me father were her tackler and her daughter were getting married and she invited me father and mother and us to tea and it were at what they called Whalley's cafe. There is a cafe there now, next to Cook and Thornton's.
Aye.
R- It were a well known place you know for that sort of thing.
That's it yes.
R - And 1 can remember going there and that were first time we’d ever been to owt like that. You know, knife and fork. Boiled ham and tongue, weddings and funerals, weren’t they, boiled ham and tongue.
I were just going to say were it boiled ham.
R- Aye boiled ham and tongue.
Boiled ham, it were just about obligatory weren’t it.
R - Aye. We were thrilled to bits with this tea party job.
Aye. How about funerals did you ever go to a funeral?
R- No. Well, not while I were getting grown up.
What would you say that you enjoyed doing most when you were a child?
R- Well, if I could get a football I liked to be punching a football about.
Aye.
R- Aye or a bowl, you know bowling on the road.
Now I don't know what you mean. What do you mean bowling on the road?
R - Hoop you know, hoop.
Hoop. That’s it aye.
R- They called ‘em bowls.
Wooden or iron?
(900)
R- Iron.
Blacksmith?
R- Aye. And as I were saying afore about going to Fence End. I've run to Fence End nearly all the way wi’ a bowl. Bar up Wizzik you know, then when you got to top of Thornton you were right wi’ a guider on.
Yes, yes that’s it. I've heard Ernie on about that going to Gisburn.
R - Aye.
With hoops, wi’ bowls.
R- Bowls. It's surprising how far you could go.
Aye, and did you have any pocket money when you were young?
R- Aye, three ha’pence when we were young.
And did you just get that or did you have to do sommat to earn it?
R- No. We got it whether we’d done owt or not.
Aye. What did you spend it on?
R- Well, we'd get three ha’pence Saturday morning and spend a ha’penny on Charlie’s rock happen.
Charlie’s .... ?
R- Rock aye.
Aye.
R- Them were them bars of toffee. They were all in the go in them days, they were made at Nelson. They called ‘em old Charlie’s Rock, not Blackpool Rock, but it were a similar do. You could get pineapple, mint and double mint and that.
What were it Victory V?
R- No, no it were a private firm.
Aye.
R- Aye, I’ll tell you who it were if it matters. You know Stanley Whittaker what had garage?
Yes.
R- Well it were his uncle.
Aye.
(45 mins)
R- Were this Hodgon what made Charlie’s rock.
Hodgon?
R- Hodgon they called him.
(950)
R- And then at afternoon well we’d have a penny and we'd happen get a bar of chocolate or sometimes there were some things, they called 'em turnovers, they were like a horse shoe wi’ a lid on and you lifted lid up and there were a little present inside. I think them were a penny.
How much were it to go to pictures then?
R- I think it were threepence to go in the pictures but when we were really little kids the Empire weren’t built then.
When were the Empire built? ... roughly?
R- Just before the fourteen war.
And you were born?
R- It might have been finished in fourteen.
Yes and you were born?
R- 1908.
Nineteen hundred and eight, aye well..
R- But they used to have come up to the Weavers, Weavers Institute. top room. There were...
Where were the Weavers Institute?
R- It's up aside of the cricket field if you know where that is.
Yes, that's it aye, like back of the council offices there, that field?
R- That's it and when you look at it now you wondered how they got so many in. There weren’t a special room or owt for the cinematograph, it were just on a bit of a stand and there used to be concerts there as well like, concert parties coming and...
Aye.
R- We used to get to go there at Saturday afternoon.
Aye.
R- I don't know whether it were a penny or three ha'pence.
And that were run by the union?
R- No.
No, they just let the room out.
R- They let the room off did the Weavers.
Aye.
R- It were a dance place an all. I should think it ud be occupied every Saturday after they finished, after they built the Empire. They finished wi’ pictures there but it ud still be occupied wi’ dances and these here variety shows coming.
(1008)
SCG/14 April 2003
8,094 words.