THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON THE 19TH OF OCTOBER 1978 AT 14 STONEYBANK ROAD, EARBY. THE INFORMANT IS FRED INMAN, TACKLER AND THE INTERVIEWER IS STANLEY GRAHAM.
This week we'll start off with a very interesting subject, politics. Can you ever remember the family when you were at home, discussing politics?
R- Now, yes I can remember but I should think me father would be a Liberal at one time and then when they put a Labour man up in Skipton division he turned Labour and there were no argument like, me mother followed him and that were top and bottom of it.
Aye, what year would that be about Fred?
R- It’d happen be about fourteen.
And you were born in 1908.
R- Right.
Right, so that's going to be about 1922 isn’t it
R- Mm...I know it were when things were bad.
Aye.
R- 1922 or 23.
Yes, near enough Fred, near enough. And why do you think he changed over from Liberal to Labour you know Socialist.
R- Well it got to be, it had allus been Liberal and Conservative in the Skipton Division. And then when this Labour man put up, well everybody thought well it's going to be sommat new and Socialism were new coming into Earby more or less at that time. And I suppose that's why he changed, to have a bit better going on as they kept saying. If they got a change of government and that sort of thing. That's all. I don't think there were much argument. I can just remember one of me aunties coming once and she said “My, I never thought you'd have voted Labour!” She were a reight old Tory. Well he says. “I never thought you'd have voted Tory!” I can remember him saying that to her. She says “Well, I think you're foolish you know.” Well he says “You have your way and I’ll have mine.” And that were that, that finished it, there were no arguments.
Did he go to any political meetings? Did they have any in the town?
R- Oh when it were election time. Well that were a good do for us kids, you could go with your parents. Well it used to pass a couple of hours on. They'd have the Empire picture place, they had that had the Labour Party. The pictures were stopped and the screen were up and the stage all set out and these speakers on. Well we were thrilled to bits with it 'cause we’d never known owt about that.
(50)
Can you remember any of the speakers?
R- Aye there were a fella called O. G .Willey. He were a bit, a real talker. He put up in this Division about twice and then he went somewhere else and got in at the next do.
How do you spell that?
R- W I L L E Y.
Aye.
R - And then there were, what would there be. Somebody called Bird used to put up for the Conservatives Roy Bird. We used to go up Albion Hall if we got half a chance we used to dodge up there. And then where the library is now, that were the Liberal Club. We used to go in there, there’d be, we were fit up like nearly four or five nights a week at these political meetings. All for nowt.
Aye.
R- And it were one thing you looked forward to, there were nowt much else.
Aye.
R- Then there used to be a bit of heckling and asking questions and that sort of thing, but if you went up to Albion Hall, if you made a bit of a murmur you were out. I can remember some older than me you know, happen in twenties stage, heckling a bit and out. They didn't get to stop in if they did any heckling at all. Well at Labour they seemed to encourage ‘em a bit to try and convert 'em instead of chucking ‘em out.
Aye.
(5 mins)
R- 'Cause like they allus used to say a bad Conservative makes a Communist didn't they. I can remember that when I were a little kid hearing that.
Aye. Well 1921 was the year when the Communist Party started in this country and Barlick was one of the first Communist Party's to start up. I think that were, what was his name, [Jimmy] Rushton.
R- Rushton. Aye, I can remember him coming to Earby talking. Aye he used to come and spout on what we called the fair ground then, where the bus station is.
That's it aye.
R- He put up for the council a time or two didn't he.
Aye.
R - Barlick council.
Aye, a bit of an agitator I think he were. I have an idea, I'm not sure, there's a woman called Bessie Dickinson in Burnley, and I have an idea that she was one of his daughters. And her husband was in Nelson rather, not Burnley. Her husband was a big man in the I L P at Nelson. He were communist and then he modified his views slightly and joined the I.L.P.
R- Aye.
Can you remember at that time talking about politics did your father, did he mind people knowing what he voted.
(100)
R - Not at that time he didn’t.
Yes, what I'm thinking about is you know, 1 mean at one time you know, a lot of these mill owners were funny buggers and if they were Liberals and they knew men were voting against them, you know.
R - Oh yes aye. I know that, no he didn't bother, he didn't keep it secret at all.
Aye.
R- Course there were a lot that had come out of the fourteen eighteen war hadn't they. And they all changed their opinions I think. And when Labour did start building up, they helped to build it up a lot of them out of the war.
Would you say generally it made a difference to people? You know, when they went away to war and come back. Could you say that it did make a difference to ‘em.
R - It broadened their outlook in a lot of things. And, now you mentioned about people saying what they were and what manufacturers, some on ‘em were. There were one woman in particular that worked at Birley's, Victoria Mill and A J. Birley were a very big Tory. And it were election time and a lot of weavers they had photos of, well pictures of the Labour candidate fastened on pillars in mill and on steam pipes and that and this woman went after A J. Birley and said, “If I were you Mr. Birley I'd sack all them weavers what votes Labour!” And he says, “If I'd to sack all them weavers what do you think ud happen to my mill?” He says “A lot of those weavers are some of my best!” So that hit her at top of head to start wi’.
Aye.
R - Which were so.
Course there were a lot of weavers used to vote Conservative didn't they. Funny thing that, a lot of people can’t understand how you know, there were one division, Salford, that were the worst slums in Salford and it turned in a Tory candidate solid for years.
R- Aye.
For decades, solid Tory they were, people can’t understand it but I often wondered whether they just didn’t want to change. You know, I mean they didn't like the idea of change. Voting Tory seemed safe and that were it. Did you father always vote?
R- Yes I should think he always voted.
And your mother?
R- Yes.
Did you ever hear your father say anything about what he thought about suffragettes and votes for women?
R – No. I never heard him talk about that at all.
Aye. While we're on about politics and we've mentioned Rushton, as you say about 1920, things weren’t so good after 1920. Can you remember any strikes, lockout's and what not in Earby when you were young?
R - No, no, I can’t remember any in Earby, not when I were young. Jimmy Rushton, that were his name weren’t it?
(150) 10 mins.
Jimmy that's it, Jimmy Rushton. Now one of the things, have you ever heard your father talking about any of strikes earlier on?
R - Oh yes. Aye there were a big strike in Earby. All I can say like is what I've heard.
Yes well that's right Fred, when were that about, any idea?
R- I don't know what it were about but what was the Earby Manufacturing Company at one time. Where Vokes is now. A fellow called Hugh Currer, he were the boss there. And it allus got called Hugh Currer’s did that mill wi’ all the old Earbyers even when he’d gone. And there were a strike at that mill but I don't know what it were about. I've heard 'em talk about it but I never really enquired what it were about. And they said they had mounted police down in Earby, scattering people.
Mm...One of the things that if you read the history books they'll tell you about, is the great 1911 lockout. Then of course you'd only be three year old. But according to the history books every mill in Lancashire locked it's doors and kept the workers out. They were after more money, that's what it were. And in point of fact ... it never happened. Well not in Barlick any way and I were just wondering whether you'd ever heard your father mention anything about a big strike in 1911 in Earby.
R- No, there’d be nowt in Earby at that time, nothing.
Aye.
R- I think that ud be when a lot came out of Lancashire into Barlick wouldn't it?
Well at that time there was a lot of building going on in Barlick yes.
R - Yes.
Aye that could be right couldn't it. Because 1 don't doubt that that strike was more effective if you like. The lockout did take place in places like Blackburn and Burnley. I know, it didn’t happen in Nelson because one of me mate’s done a bit of research there and he said that in point of fact it never happened in Nelson either. But probably Blackburn, Accrington and further afield like that.
R - And Burnley. 'Cause when I were working early on at Johnsons. I had an elderly weaver worked under me and she were telling me about when she lived at Burnley when she were young, and probably it ud be this 1911 strike. And they were out on strike and they came and screwed their front doors off and their back doors did the bosses of the mill. The houses belonged to the mill.
Aye.
R- And they came and screwed their doors off and took ‘em away.
Aye.
R- Starved 'em back to work..
Aye. Have you ever heard anybody on about people blacklegging, you know going in when a mill were on strike, or have you ever seen anything of that?
(200)
R- Yes. aye
Tell us about that Fred.
R- Well I know there were a strike on at Colne at one particular mill and there were some from Earby on the dole.
When were this?
R - When would it be, 1930's early 1930.
Which mill Fred?
R- I don't know what mill it were..
It's right, I'm pushing you...
R - 'Cause I weren’t interested in it really.
Yes.
R- They went and when they'd done a day or two they couldn’t face it any more and they had to come back then. And then they had a bit of bother getting back on to the dole then, because they'd chucked their work up.
Mm., When you say they couldn't face it, what was that, intimidation.
R - Aye and pickets and crowds shouting at 'em and that.
I've heard about in Nelson. I've heard about people, somebody that were blacklegging you know, people going round and banging pots outside their house all night to keep ‘em awake and rattling on the windows and such as that.
R- Keep ‘em awake.
Have you ever seen that done?
R- No but as you say, I've heard about 'em doing all sorts to stop 'em from getting to work.
Mm.. Can you remember anything about the, Jim tells about, let’s see, it ud be about 1933 I think or 1934 or something like that. Up at Sough Bridge they had mounted police in then.
R- Yes aye.
Can you remember that?
R- That were what do they call it, about 1932 weren’t it the strike..
Aye soma like that yes.
R - Cotton strike.
Yes.
R - Oh I can remember that 'cause eventually all Earby were out.
(15 mins)
Yes, where were you working then Fred?
R- I were working at Birley’s at Albion Mill.
Albion aye. And were you out as well?
R- Yes.
What were it about, the strike?
R- It were about going on to the more loom system,
Aye that's it.
R - And you know, so many workers ud have to finish.
[Fred signals a very important factor about the resistance to the More Looms System. This is very often portrayed by commentators as being about changing the status quo. In fact the weavers in Barlick and Earby made it very clear that what they were after was proper wages inside the new system and compensation for those who lost their jobs as a result of it.]
Yes.
R- And all that.
And did it make any difference, the strike?
R – No, it didn't make any difference, they all had to go back.
Aye.
R- It were ill timed happen, 'cause things were very bad in them days. It were ill timed were the strike. But same as up at Sough and Dotcliffe they were determined they wouldn't come out, you could more or less call it non-union people that were working there. [Sough Bridge was a co-operative shed.]
Yes.
R- And you used to have crowds going up out of Earby up to Dotcliffe to shout at 'em and that sort of thing.
Aye.
R- And up to Sough. One particular time up at Sough they fetched all these police up and they had a charge at all these what were intimidating, scattered ‘em, run 'em all ower the place.
(250)
Aye.
R- Brayed some of 'em an all. [Brayed is a local term for beaten]
Where would the police come from, were they all local?
R- No, they came from out of the mining districts. Biggest part on ‘em ud be six foot, six foot one, great big fellas. What you might call strike breakers. If there were any trouble anywhere, you know, well they'd send these here particular men.
Aye.
R- These fellas, they were used to the job, you could see that.
Aye. When you say they were ‘used to the job, you could see it’, what do you mean?
R- Well they weren’t just ordinary policemen like what you saw walking about in the streets, there were sommat about 'em that, they looked different altogether, it were their build and that I think. You know, they were a fairly big do..
Yes.
R- In fact there's one policeman up at Sough to-day what came with them, Toothill they call him.
That's it Watson Toothill.
R- Aye he came with 'em.
Is that right? Aye he's a big tall bloke isn't he. Aye I know Watson, is he still going is Watson?
R- Oh aye he's still up at Sough, I see him ... I see him fairly regular.
I’m glad you mentioned that because I know him. I’ll go and have a word with him. He'll know a fair bit about that. That's a good do. Aye. So it all wasn’t all sweetness and light in the cotton trade in those days. Now then here's a thing, education. What school did you go to Fred?
R- Well, when I started I went to what they call the Wesleyans. That were the Chapel. Wesleyan Chapel and they had a school attached to it.
Aye.
R- And we went there while [until] we were seven and then from seven them what lived at this end of Earby went up to Alder Hill.
Yes.
R- And them what lived at the other end, they went to New Road school.
Aye.
R- And they called that the Board School, I don't know why but it allus got Board School but it were New Road.
Aye.
R- You could please yourself which you went to in them days.
Yes.
R - You went to the nearest to where you lived and I went up to Alder Hill when I were seven then I left when I were thirteen. I'd only six years there and I used to enjoy it. And then I got to a teacher and she, whether she weren’t capable of doing her job reight I don't know, only that were standard four and I finished my education there, she just knocked me, well a few on us, flat. What had been good scholars up to coming into her class and then, just went
(300)
to pot. She wouldn't bother wi’ you and I don't, you know, when I look back and think, she weren’t capable of adjusting herself to all different types of children. She'd just pick about four out and them were her pets. 'Cause when they were getting to that stage they started studying then for their exams to go to Skipton Grammar School. Well if she could get some and they passed their exam for Skipton Grammar School, well probably she thought it were a feather in her cap and it didn't matter about the other twenty five or twenty six what were in the class, what happened to them. That were my opinion later on in life.
Aye, mill fodder. Probably a lot in that Fred.
(20 mins)
R- And we used to remark about it. When anybody passed to go to Skipton Grammar School they got their photograph taken and it were put up in the hall but I don’t think there were ever a weaver’s son or daughter passed to go to grammar school. Not while I were going to Alder Hill.
And Alder Hill really weren’t a bad school, were it in them days.
R- Oh no. It were, well we used to call it New School 'cause it weren’t old. I used to enjoy it up to then and then after that I got to standard five. Well, you were coming to a bit then and you went to wood-work, well that were just up my street were woodwork. In fact when you were twelve, you went half time. Well you finished your wood-work then, you only got twelve months. But this wood-work teacher he must have taken a fancy to me this time, we're turning round a bit, and he got permission for me to go to wood-work when I were going half time to work. I could change Friday, instead of going morning to work one week and afternoon the next I got it changed so I could go to school every Friday morning and then I'd to go to work every afternoon.
That were so you could do wood-work.
R- So I could do wood-work and he wanted to get me a job when I were leaving school at thirteen.
Aye as a chippy.
(350)
Go like an apprentice to a joiner. And he picked a few out and they all did well, he found ‘em reasonably good apprenticeships, 'cause there were a lot of joiners in Skipton at that time and he came from Skipton. And he were one of them teachers what you could get on wi’, everybody could get on with him, even the biggest duffer. He’d try and explain and show ‘em how to sharpen their tools and use them. Some of them, well you can’t knock it into some can you. Well he used to get shut of them if he could you know, get 'em back into class. There were only twenty could go into wood-work.
Aye, sounds like a good man Fred.
R- He were a tip topper all round, metal work and woodwork.
What were his name?
R- Thornton, Mr. Thornton, he allus stands out in my mind and other people’s. Other lads what went, you know, what were reasonably good, they'll all speak well of him.
R- 'Cause he certainly showed me a lot.
Aye. It's grand is that when a fella’s remembered for his teaching so long after, it is. He must have been a good man. What were teachers strict about there, were they strict? Strict punishment?
R- Strict? Oh aye, I used to get punished, cane.
What for?
R- Well the least little bit of a thing, if you were talking, happen giggling. Come out and a couple of raps or sommat like that. Or especially if you, another thing, if you had your knuckle up on your pen instead of laying your finger flat on your pen, they used to come and rattle your knuckle for you.
Aye. Did you think it did you any harm?
R- No I don't think it did. [Fred laughs] It never bothered me much.
Did you go to night school after you'd left school?
R- Yes. I went to night school. I left school at thirteen and I went to night school till I were twenty two.
Which night school?
R- They had it down at New Road and then they had wood-work and model making up at Alder Hill.
And what did you go to?
R- Well you'd got to take English, so we used to take English, Drawing and Wood-work and for two year we took Book-keeping you know, just to alter us subjects a bit, Three nights a week, three shilling it were to join.
(400)
Aye.
R- We used to come home from work at half past five, get us tea and run back to New Road to sign on to make sure you could get in. There were that many. And they only allowed so many in, and if you put about 90% of your attendances in you got your three bob back.
(25 mins)
Aye. And what were idea? Well for a start off, what were your idea in going to night school. Was it just to pass time on or to improve yourself Fred?
R- Well it were improving, to improve meself an all. A smattering of knowledge on various items. 'Cause I didn't mind drawing. I were never a good un but I enjoyed doing drawing and painting under the guidance of the teacher. Then when this book-keeping came on, me mate and me we allus stuck together and we were really fascinated wi’ bookkeeping and he just took it for two year and then there weren’t enough going so that class had to finish and he got a physical culture class going and I went to that until it finished and that were a few year. That chap were really good.
When you went half time where were you working at?
R- Bracewell Hartley’s.
Which were that?
R- It were on New Road.
What, Brook Shed?
R- Brook Shed aye.
Aye, did they have all the shed or were they tenants?
R- Oh they were just tenants. First place were Greens, 200 loom. Joe Foulds, 200 loom. Pickles, about 400. Bracewell Hartley’s 400 and Thomas Henry Hartley's 400.
Aye. Which Pickles were that? Same as the Barlick Pickles?
R- There were sommat, some relation to these Pickles at Barlick.
To Stephen, aye. Whereabouts were Nutters weaving in Earby then, Nutter Brothers were in Earby were they? Or weren’t they in Earby then, was it later?
R- Oh a lot later.
Aye.
(450)
R- They had Grove Mill, where Armoride is now.
Yes. Did they have all of it?
R- Yes, all the weaving what there were there.
How many looms?
R- Oh, I’d say there’d be over a thousand in.
Aye. And when you were at school did you get home for your dinners?
R- Yes, aye.
And did your parents ever visit you at school?
R- No there weren’t them parent does like there is to-day.
No but did they ever have any occasion to go to the school about something. You know something perhaps they didn't think were right.
R- No.
Did they show an interest in your school work.
R- Aye, to a certain extent but it never stood out you know. I think they were quite happy to think we were going and not worrying about school.
Yes.
R- I think that were the main thing.
Did the school ever get in touch with them about how you were doing?
R- Not as I know of. Only when we had this allotment on School Fields, the school master, he had one a bit below and they used to talk a lot did fellas you know. He’d happen go on and do a couple of hours digging and then they'd gather round would a few on 'em and have a smoke. Now whether Mr Lindley ever said owt about us I don't know. It were never mentioned at home.
And when you came round to leaving or going half time, what job did the teacher suggest you go and do?
R- Oh there were nowt of that then.
Nothing at all?
R- No.
What do you think their assumption was? Do you think that they thought that you'd go straight out and into the mill?
R- Into t’mill.
What else were there in Earby then besides the mill?
R- Nothing, only you could get farmer’s man, that were about all.
What do you think the teacher would think was a good job?
R- How do you mean?
Well, do you think that the teacher would think that weaving were a good job. Or tackling were a good job?
R- No, a lot of teachers looked down on 'em I think. ‘Cause they were teachers.
(500)
Aye. Did they ever do anything at school for Empire Day or Queen Victoria’s Jubilee?
R- No.
Coronations or owt. Were there ever any holidays or anything?
R- No there were nowt special but this Mr. Lindley he were a well respected man and he did a lot of history on Earby and there were no official holiday at Pancake Tuesday but he’d call you all into the hall at Tuesday dinner time and he’d say “Now then, you can have the afternoon off.”
Aye.
R- And he used to grant that on his own you know. It hadn't come from Wakefield or owt of that. And in winter time when happen it looked very bad, some of these lads what lived on farms and girls that lived on farms got, we didn't finish while four o'clock at school. Happen about half past three he'd come round to classes, “Reggie, Jack, Betty come on, get your clothes on, be getting home. It looks like there's going to be a storm.” And I don't think they'd do owt like that to-day, they wouldn't have the powers to do it, they'd work more to the book wouldn't they. They wouldn't think about....
'Course they finish about quarter past three anyway now from what I can see of it..
R- Aye.
How about medical inspections at school, can you ever remember any?
R- Yes, they used to come round about once a year happen.
What were they looking at?
R- They looked in your hair and your teeth and ....
Yes. If your teeth wanted anything doing to them, what happened?
R- Occasionally you got it done, very seldom. And they didn't do it at school. I can remember going to the Liberal Club twice, upstairs and there were a dentist and a nurse there. You'd go to school at one o’clock and then happen about quarter past one the teacher would say you've got to go down to the Liberal Club to the dentist. So and so and so we’d all go down. Then, I don't know how, when we were going back, we had to go back to school to tell Mr. Lindley you know to send some more down.
(550)
Aye.
R- I can remember getting one tooth pulled and I got two teeth filled once through school.
[During the 1940s and 50s I had exactly the same regime at school. We used to be sent to the ‘school dentist’ on Wellington Road in Stockport, just above Greek Street High School for Girls. It was painful and they instilled a fear of dentists in me that was only cured by having all my teeth out and dentures fitted. This was not an uncommon reaction in those days of far from painless dentistry.]
Aye.
R- Oh they used to sound your heart and lungs and that but I think it were lice they were after most of all.
Aye.
R- Lice on the head.
When you went half time you'd have to go to the doctor before you went to mill, wouldn't you?
R- Aye, the doctor came to the mill.
Oh, he came to mill, who were it?
R- A doctor from Barlick. He were well known, I can’t remember his name now. But all he did he went into the office and he just feeled your pulse and looked at you.
I'm trying to think of that fellas name, it weren’t Glen it were … Eh now wait a minute, ‘cause I think it were the same fella that used to do 'em all at Barlick. He must have had a bit of an arrangement with the mill owners. If he did, he had a real job. And then right off back.
Aye. I can’t remember his name. Not Ackworth, oh anyway you might think of his name, I'd just like to know if it’s the same fella. How about the attendance man?
R- What, at school/
Yes.
R- Aye he used to come round.
Were he ever chasing you?
R- Well I were troubled a bit wi’ croup in winter time, a bad cough and if you went to the doctor to get a certificate you had to pay. And many a time I’d be off school a week, well if you'd been back a week or two and you were off a few days he’d be coming round would the attendance bloke to see what were to do. I remember one time he said to me mother, “You know very well a certificate should have been sent in.” Well, it were about 2/6d for a bottle of medicine then, for the doctor to come and give you a bottle of medicine without paying about another sixpence for a certificate. 'Cause you didn't know how long you were going to be off. But when I did leave school they gave you a book with all your attendances in every year and I had a good attendance record so they couldn't grumble at that.
(600)
How about School Inspectors coming round?
R- To school?
Aye, can you ever remember any of them coming round?
R- Yes they used to come round.
What happened then?
R- Well they used to look at your books and the teachers used to be dithering when they came round. 'Cause they'd stand at the front of the class and they didn't know who were who and they just pointed and asked ‘em a question. It might be about history, geography, or it might be a mental sum. Well if he picked on one or two good uns the teacher were preening herself a bit. [Fred laughs] If he picked on the first un what couldn’t answer owt she were a bit dithery then. And we can think about all them things now when we've got a lot older. I were fortunate they never picked on me and he never said owt about me books, so I must have been alright. I think meself he’d make a copy then he’d give it to the school master and it l be the school master what ud have to tell the teacher about it.
(35 mins)
Now when you were at school where were you living at, still living at...
R- Lincoln Road.
Lincoln Road aye. If somebody were ill, or died or were confined, would the neighbours help?
R- Yes. Aye they allus seemed to be a Coronation Street didn't it in them days, every street. [Fred is referring to a popular TV series that purported to portray typical Northern life where everyone in the street knew everybody else’s business.]
Aye. And they did muck in with each other.
(650)
Would you say they were, how did they help?
R- Well probably a woman ud have a black hat or sommat like that and she'd lend somebody else it or she might have a dark coloured costume and lend 'em that.
Aye that were for funeral like.
R- Yes. And probably she'd happen run to the undertaker for you, depending what circumstances were.
How about if somebody were ill?
R- Aye they were mostly neighbourly were all the people.
Do you think there were much borrowing went on?
R- No I don’t think there were a lot of borrowing, not where we were.
Did neighbours visit each other often, did you neighbours visit your house often?
R- Not unless there were sommat to tell or fetching sommat you know. Same as if somebody weren't so well, neighbour ud happen say I'm going down to the shop.
Yes. Would somebody ever come visiting while you were having a meal?
R- No, no I wouldn't say so. Only time ud be happen if there were any youngsters had come in and me mother ud happen, you know, give 'em a butty or sommat like that. And their mother might be coming looking for ‘em because it were tea time.
Aye. If somebody, say somebody had to go round to somebody's house with a message or something like that and they happen to land while they were having a meal. What do you think the reaction ud be like, you know, the people that had gone in, would they hang about or would they be wanting to get out again quick?
R- Aye you wanted to get out, you just felt uncomfortable when somebody were sat eating.
Aye, any idea why that is Fred?
R- No, I've no idea at all, only you had that feeling. It were very uncomfortable to go in at the middle of a meal. In fact, you know, you didn't go into houses a lot when we were mates, we didn't even knock at door, we used to stand at gate and shout, “Haydn!” And he’d come to the door, “I’ll be out in a minute.” Or he used to come to our house and I’d do the same. You didn't even knock at the door and unless it were raining, they were never asked to come in.
Aye. No, houses were private, weren’t they. Would you say that you know, like women during day that were at home, do you think they'd go round and have a cup of tea at somebody's house.
R- No that ud be off altogether. No tea supping like that.
Aye. What makes you so definite about that? You seem very sure about that.
R- 'Cause I've knocked about a lot and I were no dummy and I never saw it happening.
Yes.
R- Even, you could go a walk, happen round Thornton and happen call at somebody's house. There were no such thing as making you a cup of tea afore you were on your way. You'd happen get a drink of water might the lads. Sommat like that but no tea.
Did they talk on door steps? Say it were a grand summers night, would they..
R- Aye, talk on door steps. But I can remember going a walk round Thornton wi’ me father and there were an old fella lived where, what did they call that Nutter what went to Thornton?
Sidney?
R- Sidney? That would be the house where he went into. Going back a long while. And did they call it Barmagillia(?) or sommat, a plant what grows in water.
Yes, that's it, yes.
(750)
R - And me father knew this fella and he were stood at the door and they stopped talking and then he goes in and he fetched a glass of this out and he give me a drink and he give me dad a drink and then he took me in to look at this tree because I'd never seen this plant growing in this big bowl. I'd never seen one before and I don't know whether there's any about now or not but it were popular.
I think it was something like what they call a ginger beer plant.
(40 mins)
If you put ginger in it, It's ginger beer you know you can split a bit off it and start another, It’s like a culture. I think it's something similar to that. Aye I've heard of it before but not very often. Can you ever remember neighbours quarrelling or even fighting?
R- I can remember 'em quarrelling.
What was that generally over?
R - Coming home late, fellas coming home late. One fella in particular, he lived opposite us.
What were his name?
R- George Walton they called him.
Aye.
R- A real smart fella, time serving soldier, as smart a fella as you ever saw, and a nicer fella you never meet. But he used to come home happen twelve and half past twelve, and then there’d be a row. You could hear him, they've wakened us up sometimes when we were kids wi’ the row what were going on.
Where would he be while that time? 'Cause the pubs…?
R - In a club somewhere.
Aye. 'Cause police at that time were fairly hot on pub closing time weren’t they.
R- They were. Aye, he’d be in a club somewhere.
I mean it doesn’t seem to matter now a days but..
R- No. But he lived right opposite us and eh, there were some barneys aye.
(800)
Aye.
R- Following day, he’d never miss any work you know. He’d allus be up and at his work, following away at his looms morning following.
Aye. Can you remember any children at school that you'd call poor, in other words that were poorer than you.
R- Oh yes aye.
Aye. Were they treated any different to anybody else do you think?
R- At school?
Yes.
R- Yes I think they were. They kept away from 'em a lot did the teachers.
Why, any idea?
R- I wouldn't like to say. They were just outcasts.
Were there only so many in a class that teachers really wanted to bother wi’?
R- I know some they were very, very poor and there'd be two on 'em, they'll have finished now, they went into being ministers, they become ministers of chapels. They were very, very clever but they got it more when they left school, because they were never encouraged a lot at school.
Aye, who were they, what were their names.
R- Well you know that Penman what worked up there [at Bancroft] one time on
the boilers.
Aye. Penman aye.
R- Well this Daniel and Frank they'd be that lads uncles.
Aye, were they called Penman, Daniel and Frank Penman.
R- And there were others, some more lads and they’ve turned out very clever but they didn't get encouraged at school but they went to the night school after and they did better.
(850)
What made you think that they were poor, I know that you knew they were poor but..
R- Oh well there were times when, same as Ernest said, they'd come wi’ a boot on one foot and a clog on the other. They hadn't a pair of clogs. And well you couldn't say they had a pair of stockings on, they were more holes than what there were wool there.
Did they keep themselves clean?
R- As clean as they could do ‘cause 1 don't think they had much soap some of them houses and they'd no handkerchief, and I don’t know whether you remember like fustian jackets?
Aye.
R- They used to wipe their nose on the sleeve and it were all shiny. And they used to stink. Probably that were one reason why the teacher didn't go near them much.
Well, there you are.
R- But grand lads to play wi’, grand lads to know. I never had no bother I used to play wi’ ‘em.
What kind of families would say your parents thought of as rough?
R- Well I should think they went a drinking, neglected their children to go drinking and that ud be, they were dead against that.
Were there a lot of that went on Fred?
R- Aye a fair lot on it . And that were one thing me dad were allus dead against, he liked a drink his self but nobody had to go owt short when he were getting a drink.
(900)
That's it aye.
R- No, drink were the last thing.
Yes. Why do you think that some people had that attitude and some people didn't seem to care. I mean like you know, kids got neglected and what not. Any particular reason for it?
R- I think it were the way me father had been fetched up his self. Well you see with his father being a boozer and all that.
Yes.
R- And his idea were well he weren’t going to have us same way as what they'd been fetched up. You heard that wi’ a lot on 'em, even some of these lads I'm talking about now if they’re still living. I bet they aren’t boozers.
Yes.
R- They might have a drink or two but they'll not be boozers.
No, they've seen what it does.
R- They'll not neglect home.
(45 mins)
Yes I can understand that Fred. Can you remember there ever being soup kitchens in Earby? You know, free food for people?
R- No I can’t although I've heard them talk about 'em. They've been, when the strike were on in this Hugh Currer’s strike, they had soup kitchens then but I can’t remember it.
Aye. Was there ever a workhouse in Earby?
R- No, Skipton. But on your rates, I might have some old rates about yet, it were poor rate. You paid so much poor rate on 'em.
(950)
Yes.
R- That's gone off now hasn't it.
Yes. How about model lodging houses, was there one in Earby?
R- There weren’t a proper model but there were what they call Proffitt's lodging house. That were on Ireland Square. It ud be a big house and they took lodgers in.
Where’s Ireland Square?
R- It's where these new houses are built now on Water Street. They call it Shaw Square now. [Eunice Wormwell told me it used to be called Ireland Square because a lot of Irish families lived there at one time. Aspin Lane opposite was what Fred calls Muck Lane.]
Oh, you mean at top of Aspin Lane in front of the White Lion?
R- No. You know where the Liberal Club is at Earby?
Yes, it's the library, yes.
R- What's Library now. Well that side of the beck, it were built on to the end of the houses were the Library. It were the Liberal Club then and it were built on to them houses. There’d be a row at back single. And then I think there were a double row and then another single row. Four or else five rows of houses at back of there. You just went over a little old bridge where the Central Club is, where you turn up what we call Muck Street. [Aspin Lane]
Yes.
R- Well reight opposite that there's some new flats built.
Aye, that’s it, they've only just built them haven't they.
R - That's it aye.
Yes.
R- Aye well as soon as you went over the bridge this house were there, a big house, Proffitt's lodging house. And one of their daughters, Peggy, she were in the same class as me at school.
And who'd be lodging there? Would they be tramp weavers?
R- Tramp weavers aye.
SCG/15 April 2003
7,476 words.