THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON THE 19TH OF OCTOBER 1978 AT 14 STONEYBANK ROAD, EARBY. THE INFORMANT IS FRED INMAN, TACKLER AND THE INTERVIEWER IS STANLEY GRAHAM.
And we're going to go straight on now with this tape continuing on from 75/AH/07. Now then, we'd got to poor children hadn't we and rough families, that's it, soup kitchens, workhouse. Did you know anybody who went to the model lodging house, you know, who lived at the model lodging house?
R- No but I know this, when we were talking about poor children at school, it's just come to me now. They’re missing school and when you found out, they were in the workhouse at Skipton. They'd been taken down to the workhouse.
Ah. When you say they'd been taken down, what, by their parents?
R- No, by the Guardians I suppose.
Aye,
R- Probably their parents were in the workhouse an all. All the lot on 'em, all the family. Aye, it happened a time or two wi’ some at two families what I knew. And I do believe there were one called Smith and I lost touch wi’ 'em, they must have left school before I did, although they were the same age. I lost touch wi’ them but they called 'em Smith and I know him and his sister were in the workhouse once.
Aye. What did folk think about the workhouse?
R- Oh it were a bad job when they got there, last resort. I don't know whether you've ever been or not Stanley to one?
No, have you?
R- Aye, but it were just on the mend to what it were in them days, but 1 weren’t so old when I went.
When were this Fred?
R- I were wi’ a party and I were only sixteen.
So that ud be 1924.
R - Aye.
What was the idea of the party?
R- It was a party from Sunday School. The idea were, we got us tea there and then give ‘em a concert at night, give inmates a concert. singing. Well I never saw owt like some of 'em. Coming round wanting cigarettes, wanting baccy. I didn't smoke so, no you know. They were following you all ower, peeping round to see that nobody were watching 'em. Some of these lads what did smoke happen give one a fag and he’d go and tell somebody else.
Whereabouts were the workhouse?
R- Where Raikeswood Hospital is now.
Wait a minute. When you say where Raikeswood Hospital is now, I mean that wasn't the workhouse was it? That big building?
R- Aye, that were the workhouse. It might have had a bit added to now but it were the workhouse.
It's a fair big building isn't it.
R- Aye. And they said that you know, a lot of the brass
(50)
nuts in the boiler house and that, they'd been polished that much, they'd taken the edges off and they'd got to get Stillsons to loosen the nuts. And on a lot of brasswork, it had been polished that much they'd worn all the straight edges off 'em.
Aye because they..
R- They had to do sommat. Wheeling coal from one side of the stack to t’other and wheeling it back again, they had to work. And 1 suppose that was to get 'em going again. Then they'd get a bit of food. They didn't just get to idle their time away when they went in there because that ud be no good to 'em. But some had to chop firewood. They nearly all had a task to do. And as I say like, moving coal and moving stones and moving bricks and gardening. And one of these lads said that they went to school while they were there. There were a school in a way for 'em, a bit of education.
What did they think about the job at the workhouse.
R- Oh, they didn't like.
(5 mins)
Aye.
R- No. Although probably they'd get better treated than they did at home. They'd be sure of a meal of some description. But there were one fella in Earby, he died not long since, and he said they were the happiest days of his life when he were taken into care, even in the workhouse. He’d been in the workhouse several times and he’d been in children's homes a few times.
What were his name?
R- Er, it’ll come to me. He were really interesting to listen to and they allus called him Walker. And he allus got Taffy Walker, and he weren’t a Welsh man but with going in these homes and that he’d drifted into Wales and when he were old enough he went down the mines and that’s why he got Taffy. He were in the mines in Wales. Then as he got older and looked after himself like, he came back to Earby again then and he got wed in Earby. Oh he were a real grand fella. But just imagine saying them were the happiest days of his life. He said him, and I think he had two sisters, they’d be on a cart, they'd gone to bed and then they'd be out of bed and they'd be on a flat cart, horse and cart wi’ a few sticks of furniture and happen flitting from here to Colne.
Moonlight.
R- Moonlight flit.
Aye.
R- Aye. Well he said just imagine that for a life. He said you were sure of shelter when you were in a home. And he said when you were in these children’s homes you did get educated as well.
(100)
Yes. Can you remember how widows used to go on?
R- Oh they'd a poor carry on, especially if they'd any children. Unless they had a few sisters and that sort of thing to help ‘em out. But I don't know how they'd go on if they’d no relations to help 'em out. It must have been hell on earth for 'em, especially if they had a youngster or two and they couldn't go out to work.
Yes. How about evictions?
R- Aye, there were one or two evictions but it's just a faint memory, I wouldn't like to say who they were.
Aye, that's it aye. If somebody in your family were ill did you have any relations lived near by that could come to help?
R- Well aye. Me mother had a brother and sister in Earby and me father had a sister in Earby.
Did they ever come visiting?
R- Aye they used to come visiting.
When would that be Fred?
R- That ud be at Sundays mostly. Sunday tea. That were the visiting day.
What would tea be?
R- Cold beef and jelly and custard or happen prunes. Prunes were one of the popular does.
Aye, that couldn't be so bad. You know the definition of a pessimist don’t you? A fella that eats All Bran with prunes.
R- Aye! [Fred laughs]
What social class do you think your family belonged to. You know we start talking about social classes.
R- Well they'd be second class happen. They weren’t at the bottom.
Aye, like upper end of the working class like.
R- Better end of the working class. And all due respects to me father and mother I think were that.
Yes.
R- They were, you know, she were a good house-keeper and he were a good worker.
Would you say that your carry on were fairly good compared with other people?
R - Yes.
In the same class like.
R- Yes.
I mean, you realise I don’t like talking about classes. I think it's all wrong but it's just the way you have to describe these things. What kind of job did other people, other men in your street have? Were they sommat like your dad's or..
R- Weavers mostly. Happen an odd tackler or two.
What were thought of as rough streets in Earby?
R- Aspin Lane that were called Muck Street.
(150) (10 mins)
R- It were a pity like in a way because it ud be a respectable street at one time, one of the oldest streets in Earby.
Aye.
R- And it ud be respectable and then it gradually drifted and drifted while nearly anybody could live up there. And then there were Dock Yard, that got it name with somebody what had big mill, spinning mill, and he went to Liverpool and fetched a lot of young women and fellas back from Liverpool docks and they used to call 'em Liverpool Irish. Actually it were Albert Street, but it allus got Dock Yard wi’ all these Liverpool Irish coming.
Aye. That's been knocked down now hasn't it. That were at the front of the mill there.
R- yes.
Aye. Who were the mill owner that brought them back?
R- I think they called him Dugdale.
That ud be going back a bit.
R- Yes, aye.
Aye. And which were the better streets
R- School Lane, that were one of the better streets. School Lane and Colne Road and that were real good and this bit of a street up here were.
Stoneybank. Well, it weren’t Stoneybank Road then, it were a couple of names weren’t it.
R- Aye but they were built by what they call the Bailey family. It were a fairly wealthy family.
Aye.
R- And a lot of relations all lived in 'em once of a day. You'd a job to get a house up here, which you have to-day. They're allus occupied.
Who would you say were the most important people in the town.
R- Well I mentioned one and that were that Mr. Lindley, he were a very important man. I should think if anybody had any troubles and they went to him he’d help 'em all he could, he were a Quaker.
Aye? Were there a few Quakers in Earby?
R- Oh yes aye.
Were there a meeting house?
R- No. It were at Salterforth.
Aye.
R- Yes you used to go to Salterforth, there’d be quite a few.
Aye. What did you think about the police in them days.
R- Oh you were forced to respect ‘em”! [Fred laughs] You'd get a clout across your lug hole, or sommat like that.
Were you frightened of 'em?
R- Yes. Aye if you saw the bobbies we used to say “Bobby’s coming!” And you'd to walk respectable and be respectable when they were about. No clarting on. It were one of them sort of does where they knew everybody.
(200)
They made it in there way to get to know.
How did they treat you?
R- Well I think they frightened you more than owt. I can give you one instance, that lad that I used to go mates w’ Haydn. I told you his father played the piano at the Palace at Nelson and then he went wrong. And he flit back to Earby then did Haydn and his mother and then she had another youngster late on in life and like it were a bit, it weren’t just right it were a bit retarded. Well she'd to come and live with her sister and I suppose it would be her sister that helped 'em a lot and she used to get maintenance money off her husband, when she got any. Well, one particular time, they called him Fieldhouse what were the sergeant [Fred laughs] And me brother and me we were in the house and it were one holidays and he only lived just across street did Haydn and he came and he says “You're wanted at our house.” Me brother
and me, we’d no idea what were up. When we got in, there's sergeant Fieldhouse there. “Now then! What have you been doing lately?” “Nothing.” “Are you sure? Reight then, don't let me catch you doing owt wrong!” What a shock it were when the sergeant were there, we thought what’s he there for? Anyway, Haydn weren’t so old but he know what they’d come for, it were sommat about maintenance money.
(15 mins)
We says to Haydn when we got out. “What's he there for?” He says “Oh, it's sommat about some money what me dad should pay to me mam.” That were another do like where he frightened us. “Well don’t do owt wrong!” [Fred laughs].
Were there any sort of persons that your parents, say when it got round to you getting wed, were there anybody that your mother and father didn't want you to marry?
R- No I don't think so.
No. Course I mean there wouldn't be anything like any coloured people in Earby then.
R- No. I don't think so. No there were no coloureds.
Aye, do you ever remember anybody being called a real gentleman or a real lady?
R- Aye, there were some of these manufacturers wives. Manufacturers and their wives like, you know they were, you could call ‘em gentlemen I think.
(250)
Aye, why?
R- Well, although they were bosses and that they weren’t really bad in the bottom. The workers had to work in them days to keep them going. It weren’t as if they got owt for nowt in them days didn't a lot of them manufacturers. They started up with a little bit of money and it were a gamble and I should think a lot on ‘em, if there were anybody in difficulties they'd think nowt about giving ‘em a bit of sommat.
Do you think they were respected for having got on.
R- A lot on ‘em were by a lot of people but you allus got that other sort what didn't want to see anybody get on. They wouldn't get on their selves and they didn't want to see anybody else get on.
Yes I know what you mean, yes.
R- But I allus found a few on 'em alright. There were just one or two what you might call jumped up and them were no good at all. But these what had invested their own money and worked hard, I admired them. And you know they'd be dressed up when other folk weren’t.
Aye. Who would you say were good men in Earby then? You know men who were talked about.
R- Well this Bracewell Hartley, I knew him particularly well and he had a brother called William who were retired and he were a grand fella. And on the same street there’d be another..
Wait a minute, one question there, were they any relation to Joe Hartley?
R - Yes. Bracewell were Joe's father. But when I'm talking about jumped up, you've got such as Joe.
Aye, 'cause Joe were weren’t he?
R- He were jumped up. But his father and mother were grand people.
Yes. Course I don’t suppose Joe ever had to work for his money in his life did he.
R- No.
And that’d partly be the trouble I think.
R- That's it aye.
Course there's an old saying isn't there that covers it in Lancashire. Clogs to Clogs in three generations. You can see how it happens. Father and mother are workers, work the job up, the son’s never had to work and thinks it all comes naturally and things start declining.
R- They do, yes it is so.
Yea. Aye it seems to work that way Fred. Now then, we'll change the subject a bit. I know your interested in this – Health. Did your family
(300)
have any special cures for illness or sickness you know.
R- Aye he were a bit on the herb style were me father.
Aye.
R- And it were allus th’old do in spring, Brimstone and Treacle.
Aye.
R- I don't know why.
Aye, I don't know. I know me mother used to give us that. I don't know, they had some funny ideas about Brimstone and Treacle, it used to do everything from cure bloody spots and black heads to…
R- Aye.
I don't know. Would you say the family called the doctor very often?
R- No.
If he did come you'd have to pay him?
R- Yes.
Can you ever remember any difficulty over paying him?
R - No, no.
No, did your mother and father belong to a Friendly Society or anything like that?
R- Me father belong to the Oddfellows for a long while.
Where were they? Did they call 'em a tent, Oddfellows?
R- A Lodge.
Aye a Lodge, were there one in Earby?
R- Yes.
Whereabouts were that?
(20 mins)
R- Well they had it in the Baptists school a lot. And 1 think at start where the Liberal Club, where the Library is to-day. There were an institute there before the Liberal Club were built. And I think it would start there, the Oddfellows. In fact me father were one of the founders of this Oddfellows in Earby. He used to have a great big scroll wi’ all the names on what had started it up.
Aye. And what exactly was the Oddfellows?
R- Well it were a Society, they paid so much a week and if you were ill, you know, you got about ten shillings a week when you were off work. And if you were off work a long while and you needed any convalescence they had some convalescent homes at various places. They’d send you to a convalescent home.
Had they any political ideas or anything like that?
R- No 1 don't think there were, no 1 don't think so. In fact I think me brother, he'd be in the Oddfellows up to him dying. He joined when he were a young lad.
Is it still going on?
R - I don't think so.
No. And if your dad were off sick would he get any money off his employers or off the trade union?
R - No.
Nothing of that sort. Would he get Lloyd George?
R- Yes. But before Lloyd George came in there were the Oddfellows.
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Yes.
R- They were like a friendly society..
Yes.
R- Where they got about ten shillings if you were off your work..
Yes, that's it aye. And did he belong to a hospital scheme at all. You know, like penny hospital or owt like that.
R- Well, it came in later. It were when I were working that came in.
What were that for? That wasn't for Reedyford was it?.
R- No, he went to Burnley.
Burnley. Aye. Because that’s how Reedyford were built, that hospital there. That house were left ‘em and that's how they built it there wi’ penny's and twopences. How about insurance, you know, or death insurance, you know? Were any of you insured?
R- Aye. Me brother and me father had no insurance and me mother hadn't any insurance but we were insured me brother and me. We were on that penny a week.
That's it.
R- It used to be a penny a week.
What were it, Blackburn Friendly Society, there used to be one weren’t there..
R – Aye, and Prudential were this one we were in. And when 14/18 war were on they fetched another insurance scheme out and it wore sommat. money were intended for war. I allus remember it were when, I don't know how many year it were but we'd draw twenty pound each would me brother and me. I'd be about twenty when we drew it. It had been in a long while. And he were coming round collecting were this collector, me mother says “Oh it's up now is this here, this twenty pounds.” Well anyway, “If you read the small print, it's up now but you can’t draw it while next year. You'll finish paying but you can’t draw it while next year.” So me mother says “I want it now!” He says “If you get it now, you'll only get eighteen pounds.” So she says “Well I'm having eighteen pound!” I allus remember that and so she drew thirty six pound and me father got nine pound, I got nine pound, me brother got nine pound And you know, we’d nine pounds apiece out of the job.
Oh that weren’t so bad.
R- Well, that were a good lift, only th’old do. Read the small print.
Aye.
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What did you do with your nine pound?
R- Well me father and me, we put it both together and we built a pigeon hut.
Aye.
R- Aye we built a pigeon hut.
Now then, so you were in the pigeon job were you, you and your dad.
R- Aye we were in the pigeon job a bit, aye.
What, did you fly 'em, did you race 'em?
R- Aye, aye.
Oh, pigeon clocks?
R- Yes.
What were you in, which federation?
Earby, they had a big club in Earby then and then you were in North East Lancashire.
Aye, where did you race from?
R- Just on the fields on here. Back of here.
Yes. aye.
R- We raced to there from Congleton and as far as Nantes. We hadn't a lot of success, we just had a bit. I were second from Jersey one time.
How did you send 'em, by train?
(25 mins)
R- Aye they all went by train then. You'd to take 'em all to the Station Hotel and stamp 'em all at Station Hotel. And then just across on to the railway.
[Edgar Wormwell told me that they used to clock birds in at the Clarence Club. This was at the bottom of Stoneybank and in 2003 is a builder’s yard]
Aye. How long were you in the pigeon club Fred?
R- Oh, I’d be in about four year and then I got wed and couldn't afford to keep 'em then.
Oh, did your father keep on with 'em?
R- No we selled out.
Aye.
R- It weren’t long you know, and then he built this place up here and he give up wi’ all the pens on there then.
Aye. Did any of the family ever have an operation at home.
R- No.
Can you ever remember your mother or your father on about anybody having an operation at home?
R- Only for tonsils, I've known 'em get their tonsils out at home, that were all.
Aye. How long ago's that, how recent?
R- Oh it ud be fifty year back or sommat like that. They used to do it on the table in houses you know. And happen some folk wi’ an abscess or a carbuncle or sommat like that. They used to came and lance 'em and doctor 'em up at home,
Aye that's It.
R- It were all done on the kitchen table.
Aye. Let's see your brother were younger than you were he?
R- Older.
So you won't remember anybody being born at all. Were you born at home do you know?
R- Yes.
And your brother?
R- Yes.
That ud be the usual thing then?
R- Oh it were the usual thing.
Aye. Midwife?
R - Well they used to call her nurse.
Yes, nurse aye.
(450)
R- Aye she'd be midwife but now you mention midwife, that Jimmy that you were talking to last night, his mother were midwife in Earby, one on 'em like.
What were her name?
R- Heap. Aye, what did they call her? She never got called Mrs Heap. Martha. And when anybody died she used to lay ‘em out and all that carry on. And anybody coming into world she fetched 'em into world. I should think a lot, you know round my age, she’d fetch 'em all into the world.
A bit like Edith Barlow.
R- That's it aye. She were well known weren’t she.
Aye. Edith. Oh Christ, you know what she used to say? She always used to say that if women had the first child and the men had the second there’d be a hell of a lot of families with an odd number of kids! [Stanley and Fred laugh] She’d be reight an all I think.
R- Eh she were a case weren’t she. Typical weren’t she. Big strong woman.
Aye. And I mean they wouldn’t really be trained would they.
R- No. Same as Jimmy's mother, she'd only pick it up.
Just grown up wit job like but useful women to have about.
R- Oh they were.
Aye. Were there any diseases that the family particularly worried about catching?
R- Oh aye. Diphtheria and Scarlet Fever, them were two terrible does weren’t they.
In them days when we were kids. Smallpox came over occasionally. Just now and again smallpox came.
Aye, can you ever remember any of your mates having scarlet fever, diphtheria or owt like that?
R- Yes, aye.
Aye. Where did they generally take 'em like, where were the isolation hospital for Earby?
R- At Barlick, I think.
That's it aye. There were one at Barlick, the fever hospital. [At Bank Hill, Lane Ends].
How did they take ‘em?
R- Now then, I wouldn't like to say, happen push 'em on a cart.
I were just wondering you know, whether they had a different coloured ambulance. Because I know like, I can remember when I were at school, like during the war. In Stockport they had a different coloured ambulance. It were a yellow ambulance and they used to call it the fever ambulance.
R- Well, I don't know whether they'd have owt like that. Because if anybody were taken ill in Earby or Barlick then, they used to have to go on the train, they had a bier like,
(500)
a stretcher on wheels like. And you used to get on train at Earby into the luggage van and then they got off at Brierfield and then they had to run to hospital. They used to run wi’ it. 'Cause Brierfield station were nearer the hospital than Burnley.
Yes, that's it aye and it were down hill from there an all, aye.
R- Aye and they used to have to run wi’ 'em and they used to fetch 'em back home the same way. It were all done by the St. John's, they did it. St. John's Ambulance Brigade.
St. John's Ambulance brigade. Did you know any children with rickets Fred?
R- Yes aye. Bent, both legs. You know, some on 'em bow legged some on 'em. Knock kneed and crippled all ways I should think.
What caused it Fred?
R- Well it were malnutrition weren’t it, mostly.
Yes. The funny thing is, until I started doing these tapes I never really thought about it. But now when I see somebody your age or Ernie’s age, like Ernie’s legs, that’s why they are like that.
R- Aye.
(30 mins)
When I see anybody like that I think straight away, bloody hell, he had a rough bringing up. Because that's what it were. Ernie once said something to me, a very perceptive thing. He said “None of Nutters kids were bow legged.”
R - No, no.
And that's about the size of it you know.
R- Aye. I know one or two, they’re the same as Ernest and they all say it were the way they were fetched up when they were a kid you know. Big family and some of the older end, they were fetched up rough.
If, in them days if a woman hadn’t got enough milk for a child what would she do?
R- Well I think there were a few powdered does. Like Glaxo and that sort of stuff.
Did you ever hear of anybody nursing somebody else's child?
R- Not as I know of anyone. But I've heard about it being done.
Like if two women had a child at once and one's got plenty of milk and the other hasn't got enough.
R- Aye. What do they call ‘em.
Wet nurses.
R- Wet nurse. Aye.
(550)
‘Cause it’s like going back to slavery, they used to have these black women fetching white children up.
Yes aye. Was your mother particular about disinfecting the house or catching flies? You know, keeping stuff clean or owt like that?
R - Oh yes aye. Summer time we allus had fly catchers up. [Fred laughs]
What sort?
R - Them sticky uns.
Oh aye them..
R- Them were the only things like in them days. And then she used to put some stuff in the window bottom. Eh, what the heck did they call it, Pennv Royal or sommat. Oil of Penny Royal, she used to sprinkle it in the window bottom. And she said it kept flies away from windows did that. Whether it did or not I don't know, but you could smell it as soon as you come in the house.
Have you ever heard of Penny Royal being used for anything else?
R- Penny Royal Tea.
Yes, now what did they use that for?
R- Well it were colds I think, colds.
R- And then did some of the women take it for their periods or sommat of that?
That's it Fred yes. I have an idea, I don't know, I’ll have to have a word with a chemist and find out what Penny Royal were, but it reckoned to be, if somebody were, if
somebody had missed a period you know and they thought they were expecting a good strong dose of Penny Royal, a hot bath and as much gin us you could drink and it reckoned to work wonders.
R - Aye they did aye.
Now one thing you were saying, I'll go back to it, about your dad being a bit of a one for herbs. When you say that, do you mean he used to collect herbs?
R- No, he’d buy 'em at the herb shop. Fennel, that were one of his does.
Fennel, yes. Where were the herb shop?
R- There were some herbs what he did used to get out of the fields for back ache and that’s a white flower, he used to gather theme.
Not cow parsley?
R- No. There's a lot up here. And a lot of farmers used to have it hung up.
(600)
Was that wild Garlick?
R- No. It’ll happen come to me. Like there’s things you forget.
Aye that’s it. No you're alright.
R- They never mention that doesn’t folk.
No. Whereabouts were the herb shop in Earby?
R- Well it isn't there now. You know where Water Street is? There's a paper shop on Water Street isn't there, tobacconist and paper shop. Then there were Tyrrell's opticians. Then there's a house and then next to that there were a shop and you went in at the corner, that were allus the herb shop in Earby.
Did they sell anything else besides herbs?
R- Aye they used to sell toffee's. But it were, they could get any sort of herbs there I should think.
Could you get a drink of Dandelion and Burdock there?
R - Yes home brewed sort of.
Home brewed aye. There used to be a place in Stockport until, oh, until about ten year since and you could still go in and get a drink of either the Sarsaparilla or Dandelion and Burdock. Eh, it were good stuff. He used to make it his self. Course that's gone now, that's finished. It used to smell lovely that shop an all when you went in.
R- Aye, well they used to be reight old time you know. And all these tins and bottles and Parkinson's pills and Stothard’s pills.(?)
Aye. Tell me sommat, you've reminded me of sommat else. How were your mother for taking pills?
R - No I don't think she ever took any.
Wasn’t there anything she took regular?
No. All her drink were coffee. It cured everything did coffee.
Aye, well I don't know there might be a lot in that.
A- That were her idea.
There might be a lot of truth in that.
(35 mins)
R- Me father used to take Beecham’s Pills, I can remember that.
He took Beecham's pills did he?
R- He were a big believer in Beecham’s pills.
Aye. I’ve heard Ernie say that his mother, even in the days when they had no money, she allus had a twist of Beecham’s pills about and allus had at least one before she went to bed at night.
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R- And I can tell you just a bit of a tale about that. It were a farmer and he had a couple of sons I think and two or three daughters. And he’d come off the farm, he were retired and he’d been in bed quite a while. He were upstairs in bed and they were sitting up wi’ him day after day, wanting him, hoping he were going to die sort of thing. And they couldn't find out where he had his bank book or where he had his money or owt. And it didn't matter, when they asked him he wouldn't tell 'em. And they knew he must have some money somewhere. And then one night they thought well he's going, he’d been laid there quiet for a long while and then he looks up, he says “John.” “Yes dad.” “In that drawer downstairs in the sideboard.” “Yes dad.” “On the left hand side.” “Yes Dad?” So their ears pricked up. He said “Will you go down and get us a Beecham’s pill?” [Fred laughs] They all thought he were going to tell ‘em! And they telled the tale them selves did these fellas like. They were thinking they were going to get to know sommat. He’d be pulling their leg.
You know that reminds me of, now wait a minute, who were it. Do you know I can’t remember who it were. This dad were dying and they were all gathered round the bed you know. Anyway they’re all gathered round the bed and he was sinking fast, you know.
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And he called one of lads over to him and he couldn’t speak hardly. And this lad had to bend right down and get his ear right close. The old fella says “Don't forget to take the empties back.”
R – [Fred laughs]
And there were some empty bloody beer bottles. All he were worried about were whether they'd remember to take the empty beer bottles back, you know.
R – [Fred laughs] Aye, get sommat back on ‘em!
I says to him, I says to this lad I said, “Oh, he’d be like wandering a bit, you know, fading.” He says “Were he buggery! He were making sure we took empties back!” Aye, it's funny isn't it things like that. Anyway your father's job. Your father were a tackler weren’t he. Whereabouts did he work.
R- He worked at this Bracewell Hartley's most of his time.
That's it aye. What hours did he work Fred?
R- Six o'clock at morning while half past five at night.
Yes. Well what were breakfast time, when were that?
R - Half an hour breakfast.
What were that, eight o'clock?
R- Right, till half past.
Yes.
R – Mm. Then an hour for dinner, then till half past five at night.
How much did your dad earn, any idea?
R- No that were one thing I never knew. I don't think me mother even knew an all. He used to give her house-keeping money and then he used to do the saying up and then they wore buying a house. I suppose he paid the mortgage but she were never ever short.
Would his wage go up after 1918, after the war.
R - They went up a bit and then they came down you know with a bump. Because just after the war they were reight up at top and then they came down and down and down and they came nearly down to where they were before the war.
Aye 'cause there were a hell of a boom after the first world war weren’t there.
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(40 mins)
Was he paid when he were on holiday?
R- No.
Did he ever have a part time job?
R – No, other than gardening, that were..
Can you ever remember him having an accident at work?
R - No.
If he had had an accident would he have got any compensation?
R - Doubtful.
Aye. Do you know of anybody that's ever had an accident at work and got compensation?
R- Well in weaving in Earby, may be the same in Barlick they had a private insurance of their own had the manufacturers and it were like getting blood out of a stone getting owt out of them. We once had a bit of a test case. Me wife fell and broke her wrist in the mill and we’d to go all the way to Burnley on the bus and that on the morning following. So I say's what about some compensation, how do we go on about it. And the manager said what for? I says for me wife breaking her wrist. Well he says, it were after half past five. I says it doesn’t matter, they don't go out of the mill while after half past five and she broke it before she got to the door. She banged her head an all and another manufacturer, he came to me and he says oh Fred I want you to take this test case on, and he says I'll back you up 'cause I want to know if anybody has an accident at our place and it's very, very serious how I'm going to be fixed because if I can’t draw
(800)
out of that, I'm going to throw out and go into another.
What do you mean, with it being after half past five?
R - No, this insurance scheme, they wouldn't pay out do you see. Well if somebody had an accident, happen got fast in the belts and got killed or sommat like that, were they insured, would they be able to get owt for 'em. So I stuck out wi’ this here case and she got about three and odd a week. Three bob a week I think, wife got. And me Aunt Maggie says “When's Margery going back to work?” I says “When she's better.” She says “Well, you know she's been off ten week now Fred” As though she were paying the ruddy money out! I says, “Well, when the doctor says she can go back to work, she'll go back to work.” She says “Well, you know they can’t pay compensation for ever!” I says “What, three bob a week?” She says “It all adds up you know!” Well 1 mean they were, me aunty Maggie and me Uncle Willy, he were managing director there. Oh, paying three bob a week out, his premiums ud happen be going up or sommat like that ‘cause you'd had a claim.
Sounds unbelievable doesn’t it nowadays.
R- Aye.
I mean it's alreight but I mean that were nowt then, it were only one visit from the doctor and a bottle of medicine weren’t it.
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R- That's it aye. We’d to go to Burnley, I'd to get a day off me work to take her to Burnley. We went at, I think the buses ran at ten to nine then and it were ten to five when we got back at nights.
Were that to hospital or to the board?
R - Hospital.
Did you have to go in front of a board or anything like that?
R- No.
It was all done through the firm?
R- It were a fella down Earby, you'd to go and see a fella down Earby. 1 got a certificate off the doctor. And I’d to take this certificate to this fella down Earby and then he give me another certificate to say that we were paying into this hospital scheme. You know, penny a week or sommat like that. I were a member of that.
R- And that's, my wife could get treated for nowt then.
Yes. But as regards the insurance money itself. How did you go on about drawing that. What did you have to do to draw that insurance money.
R- Oh it just came to the mill and they gave me it at the mill. I used to just sign.
Aye.
R- Signed every week.
Yes that's it, yes that's another funny thing. Well I say a funny thing, that’s another thing you see, if you talk to anybody about the history of that period they say one of the finest things that ever happened were the Workman’s Compensation Act of I think 1906. And the Compensation Act was, it wasn't a government scheme, it was the government making it compulsory for employers to run their own scheme. It was all handled round here by the Manufacturers Associations, and in fact in the finish they had, I'm not sure, but I think the offices are still there at Blackburn. It was nearly all done from Blackburn by an insurance company and nearly all these manufacturers Associations worked through them.
(900),
R- Yes.
And as I say it's always said to be a great thing for the workmen, you know he knew that if he had an accident he could draw compensation. But in point of fact when you talk to people a lot of 'em had never heard about it and they say, as you say, it were like getting blood out of a bloody stone. Because I mean, the manufacturers weren’t noted for being open handed were they?
R- No.
They didn't want to know.
(45 mins)
R- No, they didn't want any paying out or owt like that.
And that was going, it was certainly going before 1910 because I have a letter book at home, and this manufacturer’s writing to somebody who's put some gas fittings in and they were leaking and he said, and he actually said, 'In these days of workmen's compensation I should think you would be more careful.’ So it must have been a big thing on their minds and yet they never paid anything out you know, it makes you wonder.
R- I can remember, that mate of mine Haydn, he worked at Birley's when I were there and all the electric lights, they were just electric wire you know, and a little shade on, no tubing. But on top it were split, you know, it weren’t proper conduit. It were split and somehow or another it fused and it went up this here wire and then it were running on another wire at top you know.
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In a nick and then there were some dawn dropped down and set fire. A lot of them they wore caps in there, I don't know why like. And Haydn gets his cap off and he's dabbing this fire out wi’ his cap. Well when he’d finished it's all burnt is his cap so me father took it across to the office at the other side. He says we’ve had a fire. What with? A fuse. Well what about that cap? Me dad says it belongs one of the weavers, he’s dabbed the fire out over his looms with it. The manager says well, that weren’t his job! Me dad says I’ve come to see about a new cap for him. The manager says no new cap. He shouldn’t have touched that fire. Me dad says they’re only eighteen pence! The manager says I don’t care. He shouldn’t have touched the fire. [Fred laughs] Me dad bought him a new cap himself out of his own pocket. They wouldn’t even buy him a new cap, might have saved themselves hundreds of pounds worth of damage.
He should have let the bloody mill burn down. [Stanley laughs]
R - Aye, aye he said nothing to do with a weaver hadn't a fire in the mill!
Eh, bloody hell.
R - Well it's first instinct isn't it when there's a fire, th’art going to try and put it out.
Course it is. Aye. But they didn't want to pay....
R- And them were the good old days.
Aye, he didn't want to pay out one and a tanner for a new cap Fred, that were all it were.
R- Aye.
Aye, as you say, the good old days.
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SCG/16 April 2003
7,425 words.