THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON THE 16TH OF NOVEMBER 1978 AT 14 STONEYBANK ROAD, EARBY. THE INFORMANT IS FRED INMAN, TACKLER AND THE INTERVIEWER IS STANLEY GRAHAM.
So we're carrying straight on now from the last tape we did which was 78/AH/08. And we’re still talking about your dad and his work. Was he ever out of work?
R- Not because he hadn't any work no, but he were out of work when he were put on dole to play for a week. Week off or sommat like that but he were never out of work.
Yes.
R- Never out of a job, we'll put it that way.
So you draw a distinction between being laid off for a week because of bad trade and being actually out of work?
R- He still had a job to go back to when trade mended.
Yes, so that was fairly common then was it Fred?
R- Oh very common.
When you say very common, how often?
R- Well you might go about six months and then you come to play off you might work a week, play a week and then go back for a fortnight and have another week off. If trade got bad and they were stock piled in the warehouse.
Just tell me again, which mill was your dad working for?
R- A. J. Birley's, Albion Mill when he finished.
Yes, would they be weaving for orders Fred or would they be weaving for stock?
R- No they wove a lot to stock 'cause they had like these continuous orders.
Yes.
R- But I suppose the merchants only took it as they wanted it.
That's it.
R- The manufacturer, he'd have to risk all the stock.
So Birley, old AJ, if he thought there were a chance of getting rid of the cloth later like. If he’d got some yarn in cheap he’d keep weaving even though the cloth weren’t going out of the warehouse.
R- That's it, yes.
As long as he were weaving cheap cloth.
R- I suppose he had a limit to the amount of money he could safely build up in a stock.
Yes that's it. What sort of time would we be talking about now Fred, about what year would we be talking about now?
R- 1930's,
Aye and thirty's weren’t so good in Earby were they on the quiet.
R - No they were the worst, it were a real slump in Earby then in the thirty's.
Starting when Fred?
R- Well I should say about 1930 itself.
Yes.
(50)
R- Actually there were three firms weaving at Albion.
Who were they?
R - There were AJ. Birley, James Watson and Nutters [Nutter Brothers] They were a part of Grove were Nutters, Nutters from Grove but it weren’t Nutters from Barlick. It was Earby Nutters. And then AJ had these thousand looms in Victoria Mill. And Watsons, they more or less went out, they were slipping a bit. Nutters, they banked and AJ got Watson’s to move up New road. And then he took all Albion Mill over did AJ Birley and he moved all his looms from Victoria and then they were all under one engine.
How many looms were there in the Albion then when AJ finished gaiting up?
Yes.
R - ten fifty six. [1,056]
Aye.
R- I think they had about twelve hundred and forty when he had both sides going.[Albion and Victoria]
Aye. Still ten fifty six, it were still a handy number of looms weren’t it.
R- It were a fair do. And many a time they'd have nine hundred I should think on what they call Limbricks that were a fine quality cloth.
Yea, What were them woven on, a plain loom?
R - Plain, just plain but they were all Egyptian weft and Egyptian warp. And then that seemed to slip a bit and they went on to Fibros then. That's spun stuff, I should think there weren’t a lot on that Fibro when they started.
(5 mins)
That, would that be acetate yarn?
R- Well they called it Fibro.
A similar stuff to that Lustrafil..
R - Yes.
They made that out of wood shavings. Rayon that's it.
R- It’s broken up and spun isn’t it. Broken rayon then spun. [What Fred is saying is that the rayon monofilament is broken down into staple and then spun like cotton fibre.]
Aye.
R - It gets all sorts of name doesn't it, Fibro and Spun. I just forget the other name but it has three names. But they used to weave some top quality stuff but they were very very strict on the job but weft you know, was real good tackle. It ud be about 58's or sommat like that would weft.
Aye.
R- And the yarn ud be about 62s or 64s.
Is that reight?
R- Yes
That were fine stuff then.
(100)
R - And some on ‘em had a 101 pick to inch, a fair lot of pick in. But in a museum down at London there is a piece of Limbrick cloth in a frame and it's come off a mummy. And that were similar weaving as what they were weaving at Birley's. Similar pick and similar reed.
Aye?
R- And similar counts and it were absolutely perfect, for no reedyness, bang on. As good as what they were weaving at Birley's.
Aye.
R- And it's still in the museum now.
I think I've heard about that. It come out of one of the pyramid's or sommat didn't it.
R- Aye, it has counts on and all.
Aye. So on the whole, was everybody in Earby weaving fairly good stuff then like, 1 mean towns use to get a name for weaving different sorts of stuff didn't they.
R- That's it aye.
I mean Nelson were always noted for good cloth weren’t it?
R- They were.
And Burnley were allus a rag shop.
R- That's it aye, Burnley printers and that. They all went for printing didn't they.
Aye. That's it aye. So Earby were like fairly good cloth would you say.
R- They ware fairly good. Nutter's at Grove, they were on Burnley stuff you know. That were what you might call the rag shop in Earby. But Birley's and that James Watson’s they were on very high quality stuff.
Oh, and Nutter's were the ones that banked.
R- Aye.
Could they be weaving, when you say they were on like Burnley stuff, I mean they wouldn't be weaving for somebody in Burnley.
R- Oh no.
They'd be weaving for their own orders like.
R- Yes but they used to call it Burnley cloth.
That's it yes, I understand you Fred.
R- They were all like common plain uns, no pick much in ‘em and you know, shoddy weft, shoddy warp.
Anyway to get back to your dad. When he were unemployed, how did the family go on. You know, was there any dole, unemployment pay or owt.
R- Aye, well he were never out of work when we weren’t working. We were grown up when he come out of work. And aye, there were a bit of dole. About, happen seventeen shilling or sommat like that for him and me mother but it didn’t seem to affect us much ‘cause he allus had plenty of hens on and he could get catched up with a bit of work there when he had a week off. Sometimes it were beneficial for him. But it were a pity for others.
That wasn't general then?
R- No. No you’d never have any help from the Board of Guardians then because you were all working.
Nor any other charity?
R - No.
If you were really badly off, you know, I know we’ve talked about the workhouse haven’t we before, but apart from the workhouse was there any other relief for somebody that was really badly off.
(150)
R- Not to my knowing.
I mean did the church do anything or the Salvation Army or soup kitchens?
R- No, no I don't think it ever got so bad but 1 will say this, 1 can say it now like me fathers gone and me mother. There were folk got food parcels off me father, they never knew where they came from.
Aye?
R- And there’d be other people like me dad and they'd know somebody that were in a very, very bad way and well me father used to go to this Albert Bailey's that were down at bottom and he’d write a bit of an order out, like will you deliver that and nothing said.
(10 Mins)
R- And probably there were other people what were just a bit better off what ud do the same for somebody that were you know, happen children poorly.
You’d say that that were perhaps fairly general.
R- Oh he did it many a time. And I only know him, there’d be other folk as well what were doing it.
And what do you think would be his reason for that Fred. I mean that might sound a silly question but I mean can you make a guess as to what his reason would be for that, do you know?
R- Well he’d feel sorry for 'em and all that. You might call it Socialism. Like, I don't know.
Yes. Oh it's as good a name for it as any Fred. It's as good a name for it as any. And how did. you know, how did the family get to know about it?
R- What, my father?
Yes, but how did you know that your dad was doing that?
R- 'Cause I'd heard him talking to me mother. We were never told but it were discussed in the house.
Aye, like your mother ud tell him somebody that were a deserving case?
R- Aye or he might have had one of his weavers off work. Yes.
R- You know and in bad circumstances. Or you know, a good hard working person, and come to be off work.
Yes. Would you say that there were many in bad circumstances
R- There were and I think they got helped by either relations or friends. I know wi’ his garden, he'd fill a bucket wi’ potatoes and cabbage and cauliflower and he’d take it to somebody that were in need on it. And happen. you know, a rabbit and then they were reight for a Saturday and Sunday dinner. And when he had his hens he give nearly all his cracked eggs away. But 1 do know this, he used to give a lot of eggs away to folk what he didn't just know and they wore flogging ‘em. [selling them] I got to know that later on.
(200)
R- Aye and then I mean you could get a bucket full of eggs for ten shilling in them days. You know, when they were laying in spring. They used to come up did folk and it were ten shilling a bucket full. Pick their own out of the nest, aye. And they had ‘em. They didn't want any cockerels running with 'em, they wanted 'em for pickling. And they said they didn't pickle right if they had cocks running wi’ ‘em.
Aye. Did he belong to a trade union your dad?
R- Yes aye, overlookers.
Yes. When did that start Fred, you know?
R- I’ve no idea, although I've seen books many a time with it in. But it's a thing I never bother about.
[The Combination Act of 1799 banned trade unions but was partially repealed in 1825. The General Union of Loom Overlookers was founded in 1885.]
see.
Did he go to the union meetings?
R- Very seldom I think.
Where were the union meetings held in Earby?
R- Well, when first I used to go to they were in the Ambulance Hall down in Earby.
The Ambulance Hall, where is it?
R - Next to the Band Club.
That's it aye, on New Road.
R- New Road.
Yes.
R- Then it got to be they started having 'em in the Band Club and I think when they went to the Ambulance Hall they might have given about five shilling of a donation to the ambulance, you know. And then they started having ‘em in the Band Club and I think it were a bit of a racket. Instead of giving a donation to the ambulance, well it ud only be about sixpence a pint. They'd give them what went a check for a pint of beer or sommat like that. And I think that's why a lot on 'em approved of ‘em going to the Band Club 'cause they got a pint for nowt.
Aye.
(15 mins)
R- There's allus that bit of greed isn't there, whatever it is.
Aye, there is, there is. It's human nature I suppose Fred. Did he hold any office in the union?
R- No.
Would you say that he was a strong union man?
R- Well I wouldn't say he were out and out, you know, acting daft. He paid his subs and he kept up to the rules and regulations I should think.
R- I don’t think they were ever as strict in Earby as what they were in places like Colne. Earby came under Colne you know and there were none of that, as soon as the engine stopped they just finished work. If you were finishing a warp off, you’d finish it off and that sort of thing. But in Colne I believe they used to, as soon as the engine finished they finished.
Yes, I've heard.
R- And they didn't go in while it set on.
(250)
Yes I’ve heard this before Fred and it intrigues me a bit because I think it was very similar in Barnoldswick as well. [Like Earby] What do you think was the reason for that? You know for 'em not being as strict as they were say in like Colne, Nelson you know, these bigger towns.
R- I wouldn't like to say Stanley. I think they were the same in Barnoldswick and Earby, there were a lot of family firms weren’t there. They'd [the workers] put money in and these tacklers and weavers they were working for part of the family. I think that ud be one reason, same in Earby.
Yes.
R - And one weaver ud do it and another weaver ud do it and they'd do the same.
In the old days, when I say the old days I'm going back to about 1900 now, it was a fairly common thing for somebody that had some money laid by ‘em to lend it to either one of shed companies or one of manufacturers at so much interest a year and very often the firm they were working for, weren’t it.
R- That's it yes.
That were fairly common.
R- Yes it were.
Would you say that that was still going on, you know in say the 1920s up to 1930.
R - Oh yes there were firms in Earby what were like that. Them what were running the firm they were workers there and you know they'd pool their money.
Yes now what we’re talking about is something just a little bit different now isn't it. We’re talking about self help now aren’t we?
R – No.
Oh. Go on then.
R- A fella might have hundred pound, another fella ud have hundred pound and another a couple of hundred or sommat like that. They say let's start up.. And one ud happen be a taper, one ud happen be clever enough to go to Manchester, another might be the office bookkeeper. And then they'd have their wives working there weaving but they'd happen have about four hundred loom.
Aye.
R- There were one in Earby. It allus got called Pickles's. I don't know what it’s reight name were but it allus got Pickles's because Pickles were the main shareholders probably.
Which, would that be Stephen Pickles, Barlick.
R - No. No it were Earby Pickles.
Aye.
R- Somewhere and it were even that Johnny Pickles. They were up at Sough. Johnny Pickles were up at Sough weren’t he.
Yes. Now I've heard Jim say that Sough got to be a self help shop.
R- Aye.
Now explain to me what a self help shop is.
(300)
R- Well, that were after this Nutters at Grove shut up. They had Grove Mill, they had a third of Albion and they had half of Sough. They had all them looms in Earby had Nutters.
Yes.
R- And when they shut up there were a lot on them they put off, were it £2 a loom or sommat like that, they had six loom. Paid about twelve pound to get some looms but everybody what worked there paid money in to buy the looms. It weren’t just run wi’ four or five. And everybody had to have money in it, that were self help. And that were the beginning of Johnsons in Earby. Johnson & Johnson’s. They bought ‘em out.
What, bought the self help out? When was that Fred?
R- Just before war, happen about 1938 or sommat like that,
And was Sough a self help then?
R- Yes they had some there and then they had the Ballroom at Earby. You know, what we called the ballroom, middle floor in the mill. Aye they had some there. And that Percy Low, he were the market man. Well actually he’d trained at Nutter's at Grove Mill. He’d had a real good grounding had Percy and he knew the cotton job from A to Z. Well he were the main man at self help and then when Johnson's bought 'em out Percy were still the main man in Earby. Well they expanded then and got a lot more looms did Johnson's. And there’d happen be three or four tacklers at self help and they all came to Johnson’s as well. They all got paid out wi’ Johnsons, whether they made any profit I don’t know.
(20 mins)
How do you think, course it's all conjecture isn’t it. What I was going to say was, how do you think they'd have gone on if there wasn't such a thing as self help. When did self help start, you know when did it start happening?
R - Happen about 1929 or 30 happen.
Yes. So in effect it ud start with the bad times. It would be one way of counteracting the bad times.
(350)
R- That’s it. As I say this Percy Low had had a good grounding and probably he'd have a lot of contacts what Grove used to bother wi’ you know, Nutters. He’d know all their ex buyers and that. And there were another fella, Harold Wilkinson they called him, he were very, very clever, a market man. Well he went flop an all when Nutters finished. He were, I should think he were the main man at Nutters were this Wilkinson but they get men in mills now, they've never been grounded like this Percy Low were.
Yes. When you say that he'd been really well grounded with Nutters, just explain to me what you'd call a good grounding in the cotton trade.
R- Well he’d probably start there when he left school. Then he’d be called up in the forces. Then he’d come back after he’d finished his time in the forces and he’d be out looking for office work. You know, booking cards and that sort or thing and then working his way until he were working in the office and then probably going to Manchester with this Harold Wilkinson, ‘cause they used to work to fractions of a penny and that didn't they. And he weren’t learning wi a dud or owt of that, if I were one of them, if I'd have been in same position, I should have thought I were learning the job wi’ a good man. And I should have been proud to work with him.
Would you say that that was a fairly general way of somebody getting into management in cotton in those days?
R- No, I think you know, the father belonged the mill, so the lad got to come into the office and that sort of thing.
Yes.
R- And these others what had, you know four or five on 'em had started a mill up, well their lads would have to, if they came into the mill, they'd have to have a reasonably good job. 'Cause after all, like at this AJ Birley's me uncle Willy, he were market man for AJ. I don't think AJ did much. Well he’d two lads what were in, one got to be in the office and started going to Manchester wi’ his dad and t’other were manager.
(400)
What, your Uncle Willy’s lads.
Aye.
R- So that's how it were. I mean wheels within wheels it were.
Would you say that was a good thing or a bad thing.
R- Well I don't think it were a good thing.
Aye. You know the old saying. Clogs to clogs in three generations. It very often seems to have been proved to be true. Would you think that that was anything to do with that.
R- I dare say it were.
I mean taken on the whole, I mean don’t just take it just because I say it, but I mean you know the saying as well as I do. Would you think that there was any truth in that saying.
R- Aye I should think there were a lot of truth in it.
Yes. Can you think of any examples in Earby.
R- Well not just straight out.
I know I'm pushing you a bit, I'll tell you who came to mind. Nutters at Bancroft. Because I mean that were Wilfred’s trouble weren’t it, that he had nobody to follow him that was really interested.
(25 mins)
That ud get stuck in. I mean Wilfred ud be one of the old school wouldn't he.
R- That's it yes, like it were his money an all weren’t it.
Yes.
R- Aye.
I often think you know that Jim slipped up badly there. And I mean obviously I've interviewed Jim and I get the idea that Jim was very slow or else he, you know, I can’t see him muckying his slate Jim, he’s to good a bosses man, I think he must have been very slow somewhere there because you know Wilfred used to take him all over the place.
R - He were a favourite with Wilfred weren’t he?
Yes, aye. And it make you wonder whether Wilfred, you know would have treated him like a son.
R- Well he would have been better than a son probably.
Yes.
R- 'Cause, you know, some of these son's they grew up didn’t they and the nest had been feathered all the time hadn't it. No trouble and me father has a good job and he's found me a good job. I don't care whether I work or I don't.
Yes well, there were one, aye.
R- But I dare say you got same as that cousin of mine what were in the office, he were no duck egg, he were very clever and a smart fella. But you got others what weren’t.
(450)
Mm. Taken on the whole would you say that as regards actual knowledge of the trade and knowledge of weaving and you know knowledge of the processes, if you were to compare say the old time management. Well, if you were to compare say the management of Birley's, AJ's as it were when your dad was working for them and just for arguments sake, Johnson's nowadays, who would you say was the best management? You know, best weaving management?
R- Well as regards management I should say Birley's ‘cause they were fetched up with the job, they knew the trade.
Yes.
R- These days, you get these modern does now like, they are just educated aren’t they.
Well I think you've just about hit the nail on the head there. I get the impression now a days that in a modern weaving set up, admittedly there aren’t so many about, but I think of Johnsons in particular. A really complete knowledge of the process of weaving doesn’t seem to be one of the requirements of a weaving manager now.
R- No. I've seen all that difference in Johnsons. I worked there twenty one year and I worked several years under this Percy Lowe and he knew everybody in the mill and when he walked round, and he used to walk round, you know his eyes and his hand were watching everything, he knew everything what there were. And he’d say to the manager so and so wants doing, get all the tacklers in at Saturday morning and get it done. And another time they were going to make some Lenos. Get to know how to do them, get tacklers in at Saturday morning and it were one of these places, you never said how much will we get, what are we getting. You said nothing but your money were allus there. You allus left it to Mr Lowe. Whatever he asked you to do, whatever you did, there were no quibble about paying for it. But I suppose if you’d have gone to him and said how much are you going to give us for the job he’d have said, if you don't want the job, get out. Just like that. Happen used a bit stronger language an all.
Aye. which of course was possible in them days.
R- Yes. I know we did a lot of Saturday morning work then. There were allus sommat. He’d allus walk round and he’d see sommat you know. Same as you used to lap sand rollers wi’ gauze so as they didn’t pluck. One time he said it looks like a Booming rag shop, we'll have ‘em all painted. Tell all the sweepers to come in Saturday morning and lift rollers up and tacklers can paint ‘em, we'll have it looking tidy. That were what he used to say. It were what you call good house-keeping, he were allus on about good house-keeping. Every day there were a fella there and he used to go round all the mill picking all the wrappers up, you know what, them spare ends what were running round. The weavers used to cut ‘em off and they used to put ‘em on the floor and he used to go round and all the lap ends off the warps were all on his arm. None had to be laid about on the floor and none had to go into the sweepings. They were picked up and put in a bag all tidy. And twice a week he had to go down the main shafting and sweep the dust off the main shafting. He’d keep things as tidy and as clean as he could. He were interested in the job, he knew what he were doing. But there's some of these others, they wouldn't know one thing from t’other.
(550) (30 mins)
When did you actually, I know we're getting in front of us selves a little bit here, but still, when did you work for Johnsons, what years Fred?
R- 1952. I worked for ‘em twenty one years.
1952 to 1973, aye. So Percy would be there then of course.
R- He were there when I went at the beginning yes.
Aye. I’ve bear Newton talk about one mill, I can’t just remember where it is, where they used to polish the shafting.
R- Yes.
They used to have a shaft man going round all day with a stick with a hoop on the end of it lined with emery.
R- Aye, they had one at Johnson’s.
Is that right?
R- Aye.
Cleaning the shafting.
R- But I mean they didn't go round regular but they had one.
Yes.
R- And occasionally they'd do this here, you know part of the line shaft, it might have been raining in or sommat you know and a bit of rust on it. Well they put this here on. It was an iron bar.
That's it aye. I know Newton said they'd polished the shafts that much in this shop, they had an old fella going round all day doing nothing but. He said it were a beggar when you come to move pulleys. He said you had to alter all the sizes of the bushes.
R- Aye.
Because where the pulley's were they hadn't polished the shaft and of course where they'd polished the shaft it were thinner.
R- Thinner aye.
So they couldn't use the same bushes they had to use over-size bushes. He said it were a pain in neck actually.
R- Yes.
But it looked lovely. He said all the shaft were like chrome plate.
R- Course they'd never think of moving drums in the days when they were doing that, would they.
No.
R- They wouldn’t.
Because I mean, things were set for ever weren’t they.
R- Aye, they just had thirty eight inch looms or thirty six and forty’s, forty two's hadn’t they and that were it. They were set there and never thought of altering the width or anything.
Aye. Round about 1930, this is a thing that I’ve come across in Barlick. Now there was a shed company in Earby wasn't there, The Earby Shed Company.
R- Yes.
(600)
When did they start, have you any idea?
R- You mean where the shed company owned the building?
Yes. Room and Power.
R- That would be New Road what ud be the last to be put up. [Brook Shed]
Which sheds in Earby were room and power and which were privately owned?
R- Well, Spring Mill, I think that would be more or less privately owned. Like Watson Bailey and Charles Watson, they’d all be shareholders but they didn’t work in the mill. Then there were the Earby Shed Company on New Road.
That's Brook Shed.
R- There were Big Mill and all. I don’t know who that belonged to.
Big Mill. Is that, that's not Victoria?
R- Well Victoria's attached to it isn’t it, well it were.
Yes, but at one time they were separate, well they still are separate aren’t they, Vokes is in Victoria Mill now isn't it.
R- Vokes aye, but same as Johnson’s. It were Birley's at one time, the shafting went across the beck to drive that. Actually it were joined up with shafting.
That big beam engine that was in at Big Mill, did that drive all that?
R- All of it, yes. Johnsons an all.
So it drove Johnson's, it drove Big Mill and it drove Victoria an all like.
R- Aye it drove all them*
Yes.
R- There were what they called the Earby Manufacturing Company [684 looms in 1912/1938] And there were Jackson & Thornton or Thornton & Jackson, then there were Shuttleworth’s. Then there were the Ballroom up at the top, then there were all Victoria where Johnson's is. I did reckon it up one time how many looms and I've forgotten now.
(655) (35 mins)
R- A fair lot. They allus used to say it drove the shafting from Empire cinema to New Road, you know.
Yes it did didn't it.
R - Aye.
I think I’ve heard Newton say that at one time there were about two thousand eight hundred looms on that engine.
R- There would be.
And then all the tapes an all. I've forgotten how many tapes he said there were. [Seven according to Horace Thornton] It were a marvellous old engine were that, you know and it used to drive the lot off forty ton a week. Aye. I've heard Newton say I think it were forty two ton a week it would drive it off. But I've heard him say that you had to have at least two of the boilers blowing off to start it. [Horace Thornton told me later that it had to barred round for half an hour before it would start in winter]
R - Aye.
It took that much starting. Marvellous engine, I’ll have to get Newton to talk a lot about that engine because it was a wonderful engine, it was that, really. I think it was an old Yates and it had been modified. I think everybody in Lancashire had had a do at it. It had been McNaughted and god know what. It was a tremendous engine.
R- Aye. I had a friend in Keighley and he came over one time and Tommy Almond were running it and 1 said would it be all right if he had a look up. He said “Aye.” And Tommy just explained a few things to him and let him look all round . He were really amazed with it were this here fella from Keighley. ‘Cause you know when Birley's moved from Victoria across to the Albion it were stopped then, and they said oh well it It’ll not be able to run won't the engine. It won't have enough weight on. And then another time all the mills stopped, when Johnson's starts up, there's only
(700)
Johnson's running, it's just running that half. All the other mills were stopped. It did it worked didn't it. As I say like, it were central were that engine weren’t it and it had to work at each side.
That's it aye, aye.
R- It didn't matter it run 'em.
Aye. Oh 1 know Newton thought the world of that engine, he did. Anyway, what we'll do we'll go back to when you first started work.. Now when did you first start work?
R- When I were twelve, half time.
Mm.. What year were that, that ud be 1916 you were born weren’t you?
R- No, 1908.
1908 well that's 1920.
R- Aye.
So you started half time. Did you have any jobs before you started half timing?
R- No, not in particular.
Did you go to learn to weave with anybody before you started half timing?
R- I used to go in when school loosed. I knew how to set looms on and stop 'em and put cops on before I went in.
Yes who did you go in to?
R- Well I weren’t particular who I went in to. Anybody.
Which mill?
R- That were up at New Road. They called 'em Bracewell Hartley’s, well me father were working there at time. Then when I were thirteen I left school and got two looms when I were thirteen.
Yes. Would you say that was fairly general then Fred? You know to like go into the mill either Saturday morning or after school and do a bit?
R- Oh yes. Aye there were a lot on 'em they could weave before they left school.
(750)
R- They used to come into their mothers and their fathers.
When you were half timing who paid you?
R- Oh him what you were learning with. Held give you tuppence.
Aye.
R- A three-penny bit. That were for sweeping. You didn't get any money, no. [wages]
That's it.
R- Aye a three-penny bit. [Fred laughs]
And that were what you started work for.
R- Aye.
And when you went to go half time, did you have to have a medical examination?
R- Aye he just come down did the doctor and had a look at you. It were sommat and nowt.
Aye. I've asked you about this before haven’t I. What was his name? That doctor’s name, was it Aldersley?
R- Alderson were it?
(40 mins)
Alderson that's it. Alderson.
R – Alderson, aye, that were it.
That fella must have had a lucrative job going because he used to get half-a-crown a time I think.[He was MOH to the BUDC]
R- Aye.
Aye, and he seemed to do 'em all in Barlick you know.
R- Aye. I think he did ‘em all in Earby.
Aye.
R- You know you had a funny feeling you know, you felt good and all that. Warehouse lad comes, he says “Doctors come, you've to go in the office.” I thought eh heck, you know. if he doesn’t pass you, what will you do 'cause there were no other work. A reight funny feeling come ower me but I think he just looked at me eyes and looked in me ears and me mouth and happen just sounded me chest and off back in to the shed.
Did you ever know anybody get rejected?
R- No, no. I dare say if anybody were too bad they'd never think of going in the mill.
Aye.
R- 'Cause I mean there were young lasses and that, they never went to work, they were never strong enough to go in the mill. They stopped at home, their mother ud happen be working and they would stop at home.
(800)
Aye. Did you ever know anybody that went weaving half time that you thought perhaps shouldn't really be weaving? You know, that you thought perhaps weren’t strong enough.
R- No, no I don’t think so. No I didn't know of anybody that died of owt, you know, with going into the mill.
That's it. Thirteen year old then you started full time and were you put on two looms straight away.
R- Well if you were lucky. Just as it happened, there were two of us. A weaver give over, well in them days the tacklers set their own weavers on. Well wi’ me father being a tackler he set his own lad on and this other lass that had learnt to weave at the same time, we got to join at these looms. But many a time you could be nearly twelve month before you got any work. Some places they had six loom weavers and then they had what you call tenters. You know when they'd learnt they happen got paid off one loom.
Even in those days they had six loom weavers?
R - Just a few. And they were supposed to learn other weavers what came in.
(850)
Yes. So like if you had five looms you'd be a top class weaver?
R- Yes. Well they’d have five loom, they'd draw their wage off five loom.
That's what 1 mean.
R- Aye and a tenter who’d get a wage off one, about twelve shilling a week.
Aye. So in about 1921 then, a really good weaver on good sorts could be on three quid a week. On five looms.
R- Oh if you were on five aye, but as I say there were only one or two in a mill. They made about twelve shilling where I worked. Twelve shilling a loom.
What were that, two pieces?
R- Well it varied. Some on ‘em were two marks and some three marks and you had to try and balance ‘em up 'cause you weren’t paid on picks.
Now that's an interesting thing. Now in Barlick I think they were just about all the same length, two marks, 100 yard pieces. Were they different lengths in Earby?
R- Well they’re two marks for 100 yard and three marks 150.
Aye.
R- They were all fifty yard to a mark. But, you know, you might have a three marker in and a two marker and it could be a bit awkward then if you hadn't a piece off your three marker you'd only twelve shilling off t’other.
Yes, that's it. Aye.
R- And I mean it appertained to people what had a home to follow as well. They could have nowt to draw off one loom. The following week like they'd have a good do.
(900)
How did it strike you when you went first time to the mill? When I say when you went first time to the mill. Well let me ask you when you first went half time to the mill. What was your attitude to going half time?
R- Oh I looked forward to it. Aye. I were really looking forward to learning to weave and then following in me father’s footsteps tackling.
Aye. And would you say that was fairly general.
R- No. 'Cause some of these other lads and lasses what went, their parents were only weavers, well they had no chance of getting anywhere only weaving all the time.
(45 mins)
R- It were one of them does, same as I were saying about manufacturers, they fetched their sons in. Well they allus said you had to be related to a tackler to get to be one.
I've heard Ernie say that. That you either had to know somebody on the committee or else be related to a tackler.
R- That’s it aye, it weren’t right easy to get in. Aye.
(935)
SCG/17 April 2003
6,852 words.