THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON THE 7th OF DECEMBER 1978 AT 14 STONEYBANK ROAD, EARBY. THE INFORMANT IS FRED INMAN, TACKLER AND THE INTERVIEWER IS STANLEY GRAHAM.
Right Fred this week I want to talk to you about conditions in the industry after the war. Now in 1947 you went to work for Newbridge Manufacturing Co. didn't you?
R - That's it yes.
And how long did you stop there Fred?
R- It were 1952, five year, nearly five year.
Aye till 1952. And what was trade like while you were there with them?
R- Oh they couldn't make enough cloth, couldn’t make enough. None of the cotton mills were making enough and they couldn't get enough weavers, they had looms stopped. Tacklers were bad to get. In fact when I were at New Bridge we were never what you could call full up wi’ tacklers. There were allus one giving up and going to a better place for more money. They were bribed were a lot on 'em. to move away from where they were. But as I telled you before, I didn’t move because of work or owt like that, it were 'cause I had just got an inkling that it were just coming to an end were this bit of a boom. So I thought well, they'll be one to shut up, they were merchants and I think they only started these looms up to get more cloth. Because they couldn't get cloth off other people. But they also had a little mill at Kearsley, I think that shut up as well after they closed down in Earby. They were in it for what they could get just at time. But I never bothered, you know I were happy and I learnt a lot wi’ going there, it stood me in good stead. But I didn't leave the other place for money, I left because of the conditions we were working under before the war and I thought conditions might come back the same way, and I didn't want to be stuck there another twenty odd year.
In point of fact, talking about Birley's now, I know you weren’t working there, but you’ll have a fair idea of what were going on. Did conditions ever get back to what they were before the war?
R- No.
In what way did they vary Fred?
R - Well they just hadn’t enough workers to, you know, to frighten people with.
Yes. In other words they hadn't got weavers stood in the warehouse.
R- No.
Aye.
R - And they knew if they stopped a tackler they couldn't get another, that were another thing.
So what effect did that have on the way they treated the weavers Fred, I mean you know..
(50)
R- Well. It started declining cotton didn't it wi’ weavers getting their own way and workers going a bit too much that way. I think so, I think they went too far. And that started another slump didn’t it. Contracting looms and paying manufacturers to get out and that sort of thing round about that time.
When did that start Fred?
R - It ud be round about 1952.
I'm going to ask you about weavers conditions, I'm not talking so much about whether they swept their own looms or whether cloth were carried for 'em or this that and the other but do you think the weavers were looked after any better after the war?
R- Yes to try and keep 'em there.
In what ways were they looked after better?
R- Well they started carrying rollers in for 'em and there were some places where they'd have three shuttles to a loom, not two, and they'd have a worker going round, what they called a ‘weaver’s help’ and when this weaver changed a shuttle wi’ the weft done, they put that shuttle up and someone came round and filled it for her, put another pirn on. They didn't do what you might call any shuttling.
(5 mins)
Aye.
R- That were a scheme what were tried to try and help weavers and get weavers to come and work for you. Then they started having their bits of bonuses. And they weren’t as strict on weavers. If a weaver says can I have half a day off, 'Oh yes, yes, you'll he back to-morrow?’ Not like it used to be. Oh weavers definitely had it easier 'cause they weren’t on their back all time and tacklers, they started getting standing wages and then they weren’t flogging the weavers the same.
I’ve often heard Jim say that. I know that it's very nearly the same as a weavers help, but I’ve often heard him say that a trap hand is a good thing Have you ever worked at a mill where they've had trap hands?
R- Yes, yes.
What were a trap hand?
R- If a weaver had a nasty mess they used to go and take it up for 'em. Especially they had to have 'em where they were weaving these silks and artificials. I've seen messes there and they couldn't take the warp out to re-loom it or owt like that 'cause ends is all, you know, what they call leased, one on one. And I've seen a trap hand, he’d be four hours straightening a trap out to make sure that he got every end just perfect. Because wi’ them class of goods if you had an end crossed or a few ends crossed they wouldn’t weave. I've seen messes they've had and it's taken ‘em eight hours to take one up.
(100)
How many ends were there in one of them warps?
R- Oh well, I mean, they could have been taking a thousand ends up you know.
Aye.
R- Straightening a thousand out and taking a thousand up. And then they started at cotton places, having trap hands there. If a weaver had a bit of a mess they went and put their number down and when the trap hand got straight he used to go and look. But that were another thing what went wrong, weavers then took advantage of the trap hands.
In what way Fred?
R- They were putting numbers down for little bits of messes, just a few ends, what they could have taken up themselves. And when they had these messes they put their number down and they might put smash eleven o'clock. Well they wouldn't touch that smash and then the trap hand came and he’d to start and do it. But at week-end when they were going round and making the wages up they'd say four hours, smash four hours, whereas if they'd just straightened a bit out it ud happen only have been two and half hours. They took advantage of that.
So they'd draw stopped time for a smash.
R - They drew stopped time for smashes.
How about training Fred after the war. If they were short of weavers the obvious thing would seem to be to train more weavers.
R- Yes, they tried all sorts of methods but 1 don’t know what appertained in these big mills in Nelson and that sort. They had a training room and you know, looms, but I don't know whether they were a success. I've never heard of any being a success. I think the best way were when you were young and you went and were taught wi’ one weaver what were a good weaver. And in them days tacklers knew who their good weavers were and whether they were suitable. Well in some of these other mills the tackler had nothing to do with the weavers. Managers, they didn't allus know who were the best weaver for teaching. You could get a good weaver but they couldn't pass knowledge on. And then you've got to have a good learner haven't you. If he were interested or she were interested to pick it up. I've known weavers come, young uns from school and you'll think, oh they'll never make owt and they've been interested and made real tip top weavers. In fact I can remember one young girl coming to New Bridge,
(150) (10 mins)
she’d been to grammar school, she'd been to that secretarial college at Burnley, [Alston’s Business Collage, 4 Colne Road, Burnley.] She'd worked in offices and then there were that more much money in weaving so she came to learn to weave and I’ll say within three month she were as good a weaver as any that went into a mill. 'Cause she enjoyed it and she enjoyed the money. Where she might have been earning six pound, she'd come into the mill and she were earning ten. Well that were a big jump weren’t it. They were definitely earning good money in that New Bridge.
So in about 1947 to 50 when the place were full up they could earn ten quid at New Bridge.
Oh yes, good weavers yes. Them what came to weave. They got paid for every yard they wove them places. They were measured were all the pieces and sometimes your warp, you know, we'll say it had on the ticket five thousand yards, happen at five thousand. A thousand yards we'll put, they might have a thousand and two hundred on. Well in olden days they wouldn't have been paid for that but they paid 'em to make sure that they could keep their weavers later on. Well, before then they were fleecing weavers wi’ the length of the cloth.
What, you mean the pieces were actually longer than hundred yards?
R- Yes. They were getting paid for a hundred yards and they were weaving a hundred and three and hundred and four yards. But when it came in that they had to put these meters on.
True Meters.
R- True Meters and measure all the lengths. And when a weaver downed a warp, all these extra lengths were added on and they might have thirty yards to add on, which it boosted their pay up for that week then.
Aye, well that's a third of a piece isn't it. And you say they were fleecing the weavers on their lengths. It seems a very hard attitude to have towards your workers. Would you say that that sort of attitude were fairly common?
R- Oh yes, aye. Aye, the cotton trade, even when it were booming, I think they'd rob 'em. They just run 'em ower the plaiting machine didn't they and they counted 'em, but as far as you knew they were only 90, 100, 150 yards. You took it what it had on your card. Well in dry weather you didn't get the same length off as what you did in wet weather.
Aye because of the warp taking up.
R- Stretch aye. They used to be coming round, “Get some more weight on!” you know and accusing weavers of taking weight off. And that, I don't think they were ever, when they told 'em to put more weight on, I don't think they'd ever be under 100 yards. But they wouldn't be that yard over do you see.
Yes. So like wi’ putting more weight on the back it were putting more strain on the warp and stretching it. And getting more length out of each piece.
R - That's it and making it weave worse an all. 'Cause there were a happy medium as regards weighting.
Yes.
(15 mins)
R - And then when they come and they put these humidifiers in, well they just shot up. Well we'll say from hundred to hundred and three, hundred and six yards, wi’ humidifiers in.
Aye. So really..
R - Really they should have altered their tape length, you know. Altered the marks but they didn't.
So in other words if you were a manufacturer and you put a humidifier system in, one of the things that was on your mind was the fact that that could mean that you were getting more cloth. You were getting more stretch on your warp, so you were getting more cloth out of them looms.
R – Yes.
Well that's a bit of an eye opener for me Fred. I've never known, there you are, you see we've come to the right fella here! But I always thought that humidifiers were put in to make the cloth, you know make it weave better.
R - Well yes it were that dampness. And it just give 'em that bit of a stretch. It stretched two yards in a hundred easy wi’ humidifiers in.
Aye. So like if you had humidifiers in and plenty of weight on the back you were..
R- Oh they could get any length they wanted nearly. And that's the sort of thing. I’ve said before, a place wi’ happen six hundred loom all on one kind paying weavers for hundred yards and they were coming wi’ hundred and fours. Well they were getting some pieces for nowt you know.
Yes. Were there any other ways it were possible for the manufacturer to, well to rob the weaver, apart from what we were talking about?
R- No, I think that were biggest thing what they did.
Tell me something Fred, have you ever come across a firm using bastard reeds?
R- No but I've heard about 'em. That were another weren’t it. They were robbing them what were buying the cloth then weren’t they?
Yes well I've already gone into the bastard reed job.
(250
Funnily enough I were talking to somebody the other day and he was talking about a manufacturer who said to him, he said “We run on the bastard reed system here.”
R- It were fairly common in Burnley I think were bastard reeds.
Well this were over Burnley way. In fact I'm not sure if it weren’t Queen Street at Harle Syke.
R- Yes it could be.
I should have thought that it was a very dangerous thing to do nowadays, because I mean surely it’ll come under things like the Fair Trading Act you know.
R- Yes aye, I don't think they'll do it now like they did then. Still that cloth were going abroad weren’t it. Once it got abroad it never come back. There is another thing as regards bastard reeds, not to do with robbing anybody but if you're weaving some fairly heavy stuff, strong stuff and your reeds are fairly fine. Well when you get to your selvedge, the reed might be, you know, instead of being a seventy reed they might put about a sixty six or sixty seven in the selvedge. Just to make it that little bit stronger to stand nipping up a bit. But they had to be spot on you know and they were just for selvedges were them reeds.
Those wouldn't be them bastard reeds with about six inch [variation] at either side.
R- No. They’d just have the odd inch like. At the edges.
For the width aye.
R- For better weaving were that. But you know same as them bastard reeds at sides when they had four or five inches. Your cloth allus nipped in a bit didn't it. And you wouldn’t be able to just pick that out at a rough looking at it. Although they were saying all them thousands of yards of thread weren’t they.
Yes, aye. Anyway, you’re working at New Bridge and as you say you left then because you got an idea that things were coming bad again. But tell me, what actually finished New Bridge?
R- I think it were when there were plenty of cloth. The markets were saturated and so they just closed down, they could buy it, probably cheaper than what they could make it then.
So they didn't wait till the contraction job and get paid for their looms?..
(300)
R- No. No they were out reight away nearly.
Aye. So they really slipped up in a way then there.
R - In a way yes.
Aye. So you moved to Johnsons. Now Johnsons then was the same firm that it is now I assume, Johnsons and Johnson’s.
R- Yes.
And they’d be weaving, what would they be weaving then?
R- Mostly Gauze and bandage cloth.
Yes, for their own products, for Johnson & Johnson's products. Things like Elastoplasts, things like that.
R- Band Aids, [laughs]
Band Aids aye. Oh aye, Elastoplasts were...
R - Smith & Nephews.
Smith and Nephew, that's it, aye. It were Band Aid weren’t it, Johnson and Johnson’s.
R- But it were still in the old way even when I went.
What do you mean by the old way?
R - Looms all crammed together.
(20 mins)
R- No space. No spacing out.
Hadn't they spaced out?
R - No. Oh no.
When did most of ‘em space out?
R- Oh about 19.Just after war,
Yes.
R- Happen about 1946/1947. 'Cause they'd spaced out as well as they could at Birley's when I left in forty seven. But actually spacing out in an old mill took a bit of doing. Alleys were either too wide, back alleys were too wide and your belts were too long, when they took an alley out. [the shafting wasn’t moved, only the looms] And in one way it worsened conditions as regards working. Even now I can remember when they spaced out I were a long while before I could get into the rhythm. When they got these wide alleys, weavers alleys, it were alright for passing [each other] but instead of setting a loom on here and just turning round to the next one you'd to take a step to set the other looms on and they were a long while of getting used to it were the weavers. In fact it made it hard work for ‘em, they were doing a lot more walking about. You used to get into that habit, you knew just the exact width of your alley and you could just turn round at one and be at your looms.
Yes. Now Johnsons, when you went there, that was the first place
(350)
you ever saw self threading shuttles wasn't it.
R- Yes they started on there. Aye that were one thing they modernised wi’ the shuttles and all new shuttle guards, and all these cloth roller motions for taking rollers out easy. But otherwise they still [worked on the old spacing] Two on you having to lift warps in and out. You couldn't push ‘em down some of alleys, you had 'em to lift all the time.
What did you think of the self threading shuttles when they first come in?
R- Well they were definitely better as regards health I think but you'd a lot more bother with weft breakages and it put a lot of expense on 'cause you were having to put fur in the shuttles and put drag in and that sort of thing to make 'em weave.
Yes. Didn't you put fur in kissing shuttles?
R- Very seldom. ‘Cause they were a different shape altogether were the old kissing shuttles.
Yes. What was the weavers attitude to self threading shuttles?
R- Oh they liked 'em. And if they didn't weave, well it were the tackler that couldn't make a do, that were it. But they were in their infancy for quite a while were self threading shuttles. As regards these eyes what they put in. They were putting the eye in and some were coming loose, some were breaking. They tried all different sorts, a lot of different sorts. I think they have more or less got on to it now but these wire eye's what they have, they've got to be spot on or they don't thread properly.
And then the weaver’s fetching 'em to you. Weft breaking and they haven't been threaded. But it used to be [with kissing shuttles]when you were having a lot of weft troubles, which you used to do, and you were getting these shuttles off weavers. Some of these fancy women wi’ all lipstick. All their shuttles were covered with lipstick. And I think that were one reason why a lot of tacklers, they didn't really chew twist but they allus had a little bit in their mouths as what as you might say, for a disinfectant. And some on 'em they were caked up wi’ lipstick and it got then well you got some sandpaper and you given ‘em a good cleaning up 'cause you’d to kiss the shuttle to thread it.
(400)
You'd to take it back to the looms you know and you might have to kiss 'em two or three times to get ‘em going ‘cause the weft were breaking. They said that there were more false teeth in Lancashire weren’t there and more empty mouths than any other county in England.
Is that right?
R - And they said it were, they blamed it on to kissing shuttles and I mean round here we didn't know much about it ‘cause we were only kissing ordinary weft weren’t we. But you got to a fancy place they were kissing dyed weft or red weft, black weft and it weren’t all clean weren’t weft what they were kissing.
No.
R- And they were allus getting a mouth full of it.
Aye. Aye when you think of the number of times that you could thread a shuttle in a day.
R- Aye 'cause they were little shuttles then, little cops.
When they went on to the self threading shuttles Fred, did they go on to a larger yarn package at the same time?
R- They went on to a larger package. Just a bit longer, before they went on to self threading shuttles when they went on to this six loom system. And I’ll allus remember this at Birley's, this were before the war like. More looms.
(25 mins)
It were when we were on us own, just three tacklers there. At Friday night as the holidays were starting for July, we’d to collect all us shuttles up and we’d tied 'em all together and numbered 'em all. Them what weren’t numbered, which were very few, we allus numbered 'em. We tied 'em all up together in pairs and put 'em in us weft box and during the holidays they were going away to the shuttle makers to just bore a little bit more out at the eye end so's they could get a shuttle peg half an inch longer. Well, when we went back to us work at Monday morning after the holidays, there's this here box come back, every shuttle’s loose and then we’d to start going through 'em all. Finding us own shuttles. What would there be, there’d be going up for four hundred shuttles.
[What Fred is describing here is modifying the shuttles to take a longer yarn package. This was an essential part of making More Looms work but Birley’s were taking the cheap way out evidently, not altering the boxes and slays for longer shuttles but modifying the old ones.]
(450)
We had 'em all to sort and then we had to put pegs in, change all the pegs and some of the shuttles, they weren’t long enough for your peg to go in so you’d to cut about a quarter of an inch off your peg and round it off. And what you did, you did one shuttle [per loom]for each weaver. Well it ud be getting on for ten o'clock at morning before all your weavers had got a shuttle. And that were the conditions you were working under then and as I say they weren’t long enough weren’t them shuttles for these longer cops and longer pegs and you'd give a weaver a shuttle and then she'd be fetching it back, it won’t weave. Well they hadn't another shuttle to go in. We were a full day, well I'm saying a full day, above a day getting all the shuttles to the weavers. And nothing for it and the time the weavers were losing, they were losing on their pay, we were losing on pay as well.
Yes, because that were before the days of the standing wage.
R- That's it aye. That were how they treated you in them days. That were after we’d stopped in, I think we stopped at half past five and we stopped in fastening all them shuttles up. [before the holidays] So we didn't get paid for doing it but we thought well we'll have ‘em all spot on when they come back and then naturally he’d [the manufacturer] said oh chuck ‘em in anywhere, it's reight, chuck 'em in, they'll have ‘em to sort out. Then there were another case, it were some selvedge bobbins what they put on. They'd had some bother about some of selvedge ends going into the warp ends when the taper were taping. Well that were nowt to do wi’ the tacklers and nowt to do wi’ the weaver. So what they did, they got some selvedge bobbins and the beamer, he might put five hundred yards on to one of these bobbins. Well a bobbin at each side, before that warp were out the bobbin were done. And, well the weaver, they couldn’t really expect the weaver to do it.
(500)
Well you'd to get another bobbin and then you’d to tie all these ends together, you hadn’t to make a mark in the cloth, you'd to tie ‘em all on before they wove reight off, and in different stages so's the ends wove in gradually like. There’d be thirty six ends on a bobbin, that were seventy two ends you had to do.
(30 mins)
R- And we had a do wi’ this fella, he were a grand fella what were the beamer. We said why don't you put enough on? He says “I've been told to put so many yards on and that were so they wouldn't weave a warp out. Throwing some more work on to tacklers. Oh they had a down on the tacklers at Birley's. I don't know why, whatever they could do to make ‘em have some extra work they did do. And like there's only one fella left now what I used to work with. You know, if somebody said “We want some proof of it.” There's only one fella left.
You mean they've all died.
R- Yes.
Worn out.
R- And age. This fella he's eighty odd what’s still living.
[I’m smiling as I transcribe this because it’s 25 years since Fred and I made this tape and he’s still alive and well in Earby! I don’t think we expected it!]
Aye.
And when you went on to the self threading shuttles at Johnsons, those shuttles ud be longer still wouldn't they? Or would they?
R- No they weren’t, they were just average. More or less like they'd had before. But when I went to Johnsons, 1 don’t know whether I’ve telled you before, they’d had nearly as many tacklers on that set as years they’d been working. I don't think they'd ever had a tackler what stopped above twelve month. There were some on 'em only
stopped a week or two. So you can imagine what that set were like when I went on to it. And they were putting these new roller motions on as well.
(550)
They'd never bothered putting 'em on this other set didn't t’other tacklers what were following it. And these other tacklers what were supposed to come on the set and run it, well beggar it, they weren’t bothered about putting new shuttles to and some on 'em got sacked, some on 'em give up. And I went on and big do's and little does I got all these self threaders on. I will say this about it, you weren’t expected to do it all in your working time. You could go in at Saturday morning and do four hours. And the first Saturday morning I went in, when I were going to start at Monday he says “Oh you can come in at Saturday morning and have a look round the set and do what you think.” I did that and then he says “You can come in at Saturday mornings while you get the set straightened up'.” Well that were a difference from what I’d been used to at such an Birley's. I were paid for all the work I did at Johnsons. That were when that Mr Lowe, Percy Lowe he were the boss. He were a director an all and if he said you could do it you could do it, there were no sending up to Slough [for permission] or owt of that. “Can I do this and can I do that?” Whatever he wanted to do he just did it.
That were Norman Lowe weren’t it?
R – No, Percy.
Percy Lowe, that’s it.
R - I think his house is for sale now at Barlick.
R - Where you turn going on to Letcliffe Park up at top.
Yes that's it.
R- When I were coming down on the bus yesterday I come over the top and I thought eh!, I saw this sign, I thought that's Percy’s house. He used to live just up here, just a bit further up than me.
Aye up Stoneybank.
R- Well he wore a fella what you looked up to. He knew his job and you could look up to him. And I don't think he ever asked you to do owt daft or owt out of the ordinary.
(600)
How had he learnt his job Fred?
R- Oh he started as a lad from school in the office and worked his way up. [At Nutter Brothers at Grove Mill under H Wilkinson. See Horace Thornton evidence. He had a good opinion of Percy Lowe as well.] Then it came when he were about sixty three they pensioned him off, early retirement, so as they could get somebody in to modernise all the place. He wouldn’t. He didn't believe in all this modernisation. All he were doing was getting money off, you know, profits, and as I say they paid him out and they got another fella in. You'll happen know him, Jack Abbott, he has that pet shop in Barlick.
(35 mins)
R- And he has them kennels down (?) He came then and he modernised it all. And he got these other looms up from Wrexham, they had a mill at Wrexham and they closed that mill down. He fetched all the looms back up here.
When you went to Johnsons in 1952 how many loom were they running Fred?
R- I think about hundred and twenty.
Oh so there'd only be one tackler?
Only be one tackler?
R - Where.
Johnsons.
R- Oh no.
No, how many looms were they running all told?
R - Oh all told, eight hundred and odd.
Ah.
R- Aye, nearly nine hundred.
there’d. be what, six tacklers?
R- Oh no there’d be seven tacklers.
Aye, seven that's it, seven tacklers.
R- Aye.
And so when this new fella Abbott modernized it, you say he modernised it. He’d space out would he, re-space?
R - Re-space yes.
What year did they do that? Roughly?
R- 1960, 1961 happen.
They were late.
(650)
R- They said you know that they were in the wrong, running like they were but this Mr Lowe, he had all his chairs at home. [Had his head screwed on.] He knew what he were doing and when they got shut of a lot of old looms they got paid for 'em and they got paid on modernisation. Some folk said it had to be done in a certain time but he knew when it had to be done.
So in other words he re-spaced and drew under the scrapping scheme at the same time?
[The scrapping scheme or ‘contraction’ was a government initiative to reduce capacity in the industry by paying manufacturers to scrap looms. The big mistake was that they didn’t scrap entire mills, they allowed individual firms to scrap their surplus. This meant that the remaining looms carried the full fixed overheads of the firm and reduced their economic contribution.]
R- That's it yes.
So the scrapping scheme paid for his re-spacing.
R- Oh a lot on it yes.
Aye. How much did they get when they scrapped a loom Fred?
R- I've forgot now. It were so much a reed space.
Aye.
R- So much an inch and I can’t remember now what it were Stanley. It were enough for some of these other firms to retire off.
Yes. Now when they scrapped those looms Fred, which looms did they scrap.
R - Well down at Wrexham they'd have 400 new looms.
Who'd made them. Whose looms were them?
R - Pilling's and Permberton’s. And when they were shutting up there they [Johnsons] came up to New Road and they put two hundred loom in at New Road, two hundred of these Lancashire looms from Wrexham and they also started an automatic place up next door.
What sort of automatics?
R - Them were Livesey’s.
R- Then they got that all going and then they re-spaced at our side and they sold a lot of looms but they kept a lot of looms. They'll still have some at Johnsons what used to be at Birley’s I think what will be going on for hundred year old. But they’re like little sewing machines, they've been looked after, they’re good.
Now when they came round to scrapping looms, how did they decide which ones they were going to scrap?
R- Well, where we worked then they had Coopers. Cooper 46s, Cooper 40's, Pemberton 40's and Pemberton 46s. And they scrapped all the Coopers and kept these Pembertons. But that were another little thing they didn't really know about. They'd Pembertons of different models and they thought a Pemberton loom were a Pemberton loom but they weren’t. And they finished up even on that set what I had after they'd modernised. They had what they call Pemberton old looms 40s, we’d Pemberton 46's old looms, we’d some Pemberton new looms plain and then we’d Pemberton's wi’ what could be converted into cross rods with driving at setting-on side. Then we had some Pilling 68 inch looms and we had a Pemberton 66 inch loom and oh Pemberton 68 and 66's in Pemberton. We had all them different make of looms. But according to them when they were setting up they'd only Pemberton's and Pilling’s.
(750)
And they must have thought every shaft ud do for every loom. And every wheel ud do for every loom but they didn't. As far as they were concerned they only had two sets of spares, whereas in effect they'd have six or seven.
(40 mins)
R- That's it. Oh, they had a great big store room. [for spares]
Aye. And you reckon that were a mistake Fred.
R - It were a mistake and another mistake what they made, they put looms across the mill instead of running with the bays at top you know. [Fred means having the looms in line with the shafting which ran across the line of the roof bays. Important to realise that this means they had done away with the engine because in order to do this they would have to have individual electric motors on the looms.] When you have your looms running the reight way you get light all down the alley's don't you.
Yes.
R – Well, to make place look tidy they put ‘em in other way across. [In line with the roof lights or bays] And then what were your looms here you’d no light shining on 'em ‘cause it [the ceiling] were plaster there. Then at the other side the light were shining on to them looms.
So in other words instead of doing as you do in a shaft driven shop and go across the bays, they put 'em in with the bays.
R- With the bays aye, the wrong way round. In olden days they knew what they were doing wi’ that didn't they?
Oh God aye.
R – They’d never a think of putting ‘em in the other way round would they.
And they just did that for tidiness? Just because it fitted better that way.
R- Aye and they did it up at New Road and all. And they had a manager came up from Wrexham he started, you know, measuring out and I said “They’re the wrong way is them.” He said “Oh well, it's the only way they can get 'em in to make it look tidy.” I said “When they put them in they might be in for fifty year and they're wrong, they're going to be wrong for fifty year.” He said “It’s nowt to do wi’ me.” [Fred laughs] And that were the answer you got. I’d studied a lot on cotton and looms and all that.
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I used to read books for hours and hours and the first thing 1 knew, it were wrong when they were putting looms in this way across. It does look tidy when you go in but that’s not the point. Many a time, you know, although they were gauzes, you’d be surprised, if it isn't light enough you can get 'em into the wrong dent on a gauze.
Aye.
R- Because they’re only one in a dent and they’d have some, lets see, one in a dent you know, about 90 reed. It were just hopeless trying to take them up. In fact I had a big torch and if I were having any bother I used to take me torch.
And that were during the day?
R - Day.
Oh, very interesting Fred. Now when they got round to scrapping looms, who actually scrapped the looms. Did you scrap 'em or did somebody come in?
R- No, Rushworths came in, these scrap merchants.
George Rushworths from Colne.
R- Aye they came in and they smashed 'em all up.
But there were a big twist weren’t there when they were scrapping 'em in some places.
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R- They just hit the loom frame didn't they and they never knocked the loom in bits. And then they had welders coming in, welding 'em up again. They were paid for 'em and that happened at Spring Mill here. They got paid for a lot of looms and they never went out didn't the looms, they were never scrapped. They were hit with a big hammer but they were never knocked in bits. They were just cracked and then they came in and welded ‘em.
So they'd just crack the end frames like.
R - Aye just a little crack in ‘em, not too much. So as they could weld 'em up again. I dare say they'd have got in bother if the inspector had come round.
Yes. Well, Ernie told about a thing like that when they scrapped at Bouncer I think it were and he said that they came in and as far as he were concerned they must have made a bit better job of smashing ‘em up there. But he said as far as he were concerned these looms had been smashed like. And a loom traveller happened to come round, you know, just for old times sake. He says do you mind if I just have a look in the shed like. Because I can remember when we scrapped some at Bancroft we scrapped about two hundred loom not so long since and it's a terrible sight to see a pile of scrap where there was a loom isn't it.
R - It is aye.
It looks all wrong doesn’t it Fred.
R- It does aye.
It really looks bad. And this traveller went in to look, and you can just imagine, you know four hundred and eight hundred loom shop, every loom..
R - Smashed.
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..smashed. And he walked in and he looked and he said “This won’t do.” He said I’m going to make a telephone call.” And he went
(45 mins)
out and Ernie said he didn’t know who he rang up, but he said the following day the scrap chaps came in and smashed all the bits up that were on the floor. And evidently they'd smashed 'em in a certain way which meant that there was a hell of a lot of those looms that were still alright.
R- That's it aye.
Now what they’d done, I don’t know exactly what they’d done. Whether they'd left all cross rails and not smashed the gears you know, and this that and the other. But if a loom was smashed properly they'd smash the gears an all wouldn't they?
R- Aye well there were lots of looms, I never said owt, but there’d be a lot of other folk see it and never said owt, 'cause they were going. But they were taking bottom shafts out you know off looms. 'Cause one fella, he came in the store room when we were having us dinner one day. And he says has anybody any vinegar? We said no, what for? He said I thought you might have had a bottle of vinegar knowing you had fish and chips. I said well can’t you get some at the chip hole when tha goes for thee fish and chips? He says there’s a tappet on a bottom shaft yonder and I can’t get it off. I've taken the screws out and I were going to put some vinegar in. He says it's a good dodge I don't know whether you know it or not. He says it’ll free ‘em up. And anyway I'd had some pickled onions and there were some vinegar in the jar. He says I’ll take that. And he took it, next time I were round that way, the shaft were out and the tappet were off. Have you heard about it before?
(950)
What, vinegar?
R - Vinegar yes.
Yes, I’ve heard of vinegar for loosening stuff off like that
R- So they must have been, they were going for spares.
R- Saving a few tappets and some bottom shafts. They must have had some ordered.
And like a lot of firms, like Holdens in Barlick, they scrapped and started up as Bendem’s didn't they?
R- Oh aye. Well, Spring Mill, what were it, Speak and Booths and they started up again as Booth and Speaks.
Aye that’s it. Yes did they start up again in same mill?
R- Oh aye.
So they scrapped and started up again in the same mill with the same looms.
R- Well, not all, but a lot of the same.
No but a lot of the same looms.
R- In fact where they'd happen taken some slays out they were fetching slays out of other looms and putting 'em into, you know, might be a Dean's slay and putting it into a Pembertons as long as it ud go in and all that carry on.
Aye.
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SCG/05 May 2003
7,231 words