THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON THE 4th of AUGUST 1978 AT MRS CLARK’S HOME ON MANCHESTER ROAD. THE INFORMANT IS EMMA JANE CLARK AND THE INTERVIEWER IS STANLEY GRAHAM.
R- Well, there’s, you know where Steeles live?
Yes, that new bungalow. [Opposite Bancroft Farm on Manchester Road]
R- No, no. Before you get round the corner to Homelands which is at the corner. [?]
Yes that’s it.
R- Well, Jim Nutter built those and he built the two further down, and I think those were the first two that were built. And then those up Manchester Road next to Fred Steele’s bungalow, this side, he built those and he built Grimestopes, he built all his sons one but for Ephraim, because Ephraim lived at Glen View I think, Ephraim was the eldest. Yes he was.
And Grimestopes is down at Coates isn't it?
R- No, down Gisburn Road.
Gisburn Road, that’s it yes. Because - now wait a minute – ah, that’s it, because those houses up there that we are talking about that Jim Nutter built, those would be some of the first houses in Barlick to have electric light because that electricity came from the mill.
(50)
R - Oh, did it? But the mill weren’t built then. [Bancroft]
No, but when they built the mill… Because they didn't get public electricity till about 1930 did they? [September 1929] Andy when they built the mill, those couple of farms, Bancroft I think it was and Moses Lea, Newfield Edge and those houses up at the top there were on 110 Volts DC from batteries in the cellar at the mill. They were charged up during the day from the engine because I went into Newfield Edge oh, about three or four months ago. I was talking to the lady there and I noticed that there's some electric light fittings that aren't used and she said that they didn’t take them out because they were so beautiful, they were all brass. And I had a look
at them and I said, “Do you know these are DC fittings.” You know, very old fittings. You know there are two sorts of electricity, AC and. DC, well we are on AC now, and they were 110 Volt DC. That’s what that’d be there and I bet that come from the mill as well.
R- Yes, probably.
(100)
Anyway, I’ll tell you want I want to ask you about this week. There’s two things in particular. One of them is when you started working and the other one, I think we’ll start with it. It’s a nice pleasant subject for ladies, It’s really about the condition of woman in those days, you know, the sort of circumstances that women had to put up with in those day. Because I think meself that they were you know, that they were a lot different than they are today. You know, for instance I think I've asked you before what sort of a life you think that your mother had.
R – Yes, bringing up a big family yes.
Yes, that’s it.
R – Well, when my mother, when we were little children you see there were no amusements in Barlick at all. Oh, it was Chapel, Sunday School and Chapel and things connected with it. That was our life really you know? There was no other enjoyment only going for walks. But that’s between 70 and 80 years since you know?
Well yes but, I mean, the thing is that things were like that then, and I mean nowadays, people are used to all sorts of labour saving devices aren’t they. But in those days I think I heard you say that your mother didn’t even have carpet sweeper until she went down Gisburn Road.
(5 min)
R- Oh I can remember getting our first carpet sweeper and we thought it was marvellous. Even in them days we had to take the carpets up and beat them at spring cleaning. I mean, they don’t take
(150)
the dust, they don't go through you know and draw the dust out, they only take the top off.
That's it, yes.
R - I still have a carpet sweeper.
Oh, we used to as well.
R – Yes, just to take crumbs up you know#. If you don’t want to take your vacuum out.
Of course I've always thought the trouble with vacuum cleaners is they take the carpet and all don’t they?
R - They what?
They take the carpet and all don’t they?
R – Well, I don't know, we always said dust in your carpet wears your carpet more than a vacuum does because it takes the dust out you see? Whether that’s for, so that people will buy vacuums or not I don’t know.
Your mother really was relatively lucky wasn’t she because…
R- Yes, you see when she married my father he had two daughters who were growing up you see. Now, my sister Sarah was eighteen years older than me and then there was another sister older, perhaps two years older, so she’d be twenty you see, but that was when I was born you see. They'd be practically working when my mother married my father. You know, they’d be not so far off working.
So I mean, in some ways that would make it easier for her, but I mean a lot of women were in a position where, in order to keep the home going, they had to go…
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R- They had to go out to work yes, they had to go out to work.
That’s what I mean, yes.
R - And then if they had any children they used to have to take them out at six o’clock in the morning to be nursed with somebody else. And then they paid these people who looked after the child. And then they’d call for it at night. But I mean, that never happened to any of us because you see my mother was in that position that she didn’t need to go out to work because me father was working and the two oldest sisters were working,
Yes, that’s it. And did you know anybody that did childminding?
R- Oh I know lots of people who looked after little, young children before they could go to school yes. Oh, I’ve seen women carrying babies at six o'clock in the morning you know, before six o'clock because work started at six o’clock in those days you know? And it was murder. Wicked!
Well it was.
R- I was heart broken you know. I used to go to my work every morning asleep. You know? I used to go with me sister you know and I had my arm in hers and I was asleep.
At what age did you start work Mrs Clark?
R- I started at twelve, going half time.
When you started, what mill did you start at?
R- Nutters at Bankfield, I never worked anywhere else.
Yes, Nutters. There’d be Nutters and Bradleys in the same shed weren’t there?
R- ‘Cause my husband’s brother married Miss Bradley [Ella] you know.
Aye, that’s right.
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R- That’s why we spent all our courting days up at Highfield House. It’s called Deerstones now. When Bill Bailey went to live there he changed the name from Highfield House to Deerstones but it was Highfield House when it was built. Beautiful houses you know? But big, they’re too big. But they’re beautiful houses, you needed a lot of money. I used to think it was heaven on earth up there because they’d money for anything you know.[January 2003. I have been getting very confused about Highfield House and decided to nail down where it was. Emma had led me to believe it was down Gisburn Road somewhere but in fact it is at Coates
just off Greenberfield Lane on the left about 150 yards from The main road and Moorfield on the corner. I went down there this morning, knocked on the door and asked. There are two houses there built by the Brooks family, there is no trace of the tennis courts.]
And what was it like going to work first thing in the morning in the dark to the mill?
R- Oh well, it was dirty roads you know, no tarmac roads and when it was wet the road was filthy. Oh it was horrible. I thought so. Yes, I did. I didn’t dislike weaving really but I didn’t like the life.
How did the, and you were working down there, how 1ong were you, when you went half timing you’d be a helper weaver, tenting, wouldn’t you?
R- Yes, well until after I learned to weave, yes, and then I got half a crown a week.
Who paid you that?
(10 min)
R- The people I tented for. It was a married couple and they had ten looms between them and I was supposed to run the two you know? But they were there to help me you see, I was only just learning to weave you see?
In point of fact you were being paid by them and not by the management.
R- Oh no.
That’s right, yes.
R- But then you got looms of your own you see, but you couldn't have looms of your own till you’d left school. Well, I didn’t leave school till I was fourteen because I’d stopped on, I’d been off that much, I used to run away.
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You’ve never told me about this!
R- You see my friends, their mother used to say “Well, it’s a nice afternoon, you can go for a picnic.” And I thought well if they can go, I’m going! And I never used to tell me mother and if you hadn’t got your full attendance you had to go for another year to school.
Oh! Is that right?
R- Yes, but I mean, I didn’t mind, I liked school.
Oh so you actually left school when you were fourteen.
R – Yes.
So you wouldn't get, officially you wouldn’t get your own looms until you were fourteen?
R- No, and then I got two looms and I hadn’t two looms long and then I got three looms and then I got four. And then my sister and I had five looms and there aren’t many men that had five looms in those days, not a lot.
So your sister and you were running a ten looms set between you? Now that was a lot in those days!
R- Yes and during the war we were on six each because you know there were such a lot of men gone to the war.
Yes, well that's something that I want to talk to you about later, about the war, what went on during the war. Now, when you were in the shed weaving, you'd have to carry your own weft would you?
R- Oh yes, and got your own pieces into the warehouse as well. Yes.
Yes? Plait them on the loom?
R- Pardon?
Plait them on the loom?
R- Yes.
That’s it, yes.
R- And take them into the warehouse, put them on the table and then you see they’d book them down. And you had a card you know? You got a card when they put your warp in.
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Did you ever get called into the warehouse for a fault? Can you remember?
R- Once, only once.
Tell me about it.
R- Well, I’d gone without, I used to wear, I had to wear glasses you know? And when I was going to school, the school inspector, perhaps about two or three years before I left, they used to come round did the school inspector to examine your eyesight. Well they found my I was short-sighted, I had good sight for distance but I was short-sighted. Well, I had to wear glasses in the mill. Well I’d gone without me glasses this day because I never wore them, you only wear them for going to work, and I’d let an end run down about a yard. Perhaps the only time I was ever called up you know and I said “I haven’t me glasses, I couldn’t see.” But I’ll tell you something, Liza, she had a son called Harold and he had two looms next to me had Harold, he was learning the business. [This is confusing. Liza Nutter was one of James Nutter’s daughters and she married John Slater. I think Emma has made a mistake and the lad she’s talking about is Liza’s brother. The only other alternative is that there was another Liza who was wife to one of the Nutter sons. All is well! Later on she corrects this and makes it clear it was Harold Slater because she’d married a Slater.] He had two looms next to me had Harold, he was learning the business. He’s dead now, he died, oh he’s been dead above ten years, nearly twenty years I should think. Oh and he was a right nice lad you know? And he’d be perhaps two years older than me and he had two looms next to me. Well, he wore glasses and this morning I could see he were struggling away you know and he hadn’t his glasses on. And then he came to me and he says “Do you mind Emma, do you mind taking these ends up for me, I can’t see them. I’ll run your looms for you while you do it.” And he was the boss, you know, he was one of the Nutters. His mother was Liza. And so I did. Anyway, when I came back to me own two he’d let the ends come down. But it wasn’t so bad, he couldn’t see it you see.
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And he was a right nice lad was Harold, in his teens. And he once asked me to go for a walk with him when he was about seventeen but I never went because I believe he was getting to be a bit of a star then. And he finished up, well, he got to drinking and his mother were very upset about him. And then, eventually, he got married, he married a nurse and, he used to live, you know where I told you where Jim Nutter used to live?
(15 min)
Yes, opposite the mill in that end house.
R- Yes well he used to live at the other end in that house when he got married did. Harold. And oh he got into a right drinking… Anyway he got married and I think they had a bit of a rough time. Anyway, they left Barlick and then they had a baby and he just turned round and he was different altogether. He never touched drink or anything. I think they lived near Blackburn somewhere, no, not Blackburn, Bolton, somewhere on there. He died quite young, he wouldn’t be above fifty I don’t think and his wife died of cancer two years since. They went to live at Blackpool and she was a nice person, she used to play bridge with us when she came over, she was very friendly with Mrs Pickard. And when she came over, Alice, Mrs Pickard, asked her to play with us. She used to have a box here to put her cards in. Her arm was like a big pudding and she'd to have a cushion and she’d pick her cards out to play bridge. She was so brave, she knew what was happening to her and yet she never grumbled about it and she died two years since. She lived in a nice semi at Blackpool and she had a son and he was engaged and she said she wanted to live until he got married. They got married and she died about a year after and she was so pleased that her son had got married. She was a very nice person. Sorry to interrupt you.
No, no. That’s right enough. The world doesn’t stop for this. And so while you’re working at Bankfield, when you first went to work there you’d go in, it’d be 1909 wouldn’t it? You were fourteen.
R- I was twelve when I went at first.
Yes but I mean when you were full time?
R- Oh yes.
Yes. So when you were going full time that’d be…
R- Well, I was born in 1895.
Yes, so that would be 1909. Yes, So the number 2 shed that they built, they’d be building that while you were working there?
R- Which other shed?
Well, there was the big shed they built in 1905, that Nutters and Bradleys were in wasn't there? And then they built that shed that Sagars went into, Sidney Sagar and the others.
R- Oh yes, who were the others? There were a few of them. Baxter and Whipp and yes, Sidney Sagar, he had, I think he had 400 looms or two hundred looms.
That’s it, so while you were working there?
R- Oh yes. That was built after I started working.
Yes, 1910 that shed started.
R- Oh did it?
Yes. So I was just wondering whether you'd…
E - Which shed?
Sidney Sagar. Aye, 1910, I know that date’s right because I have an old letter book of theirs, of Sagars and it gives the date when the engine started.
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R- Yes it would be because I was working full time when it started.
That’s it, I was just wondering whether you could remember anything about them building it.
R- Well, I can remember them building it but that’s all.
Yes, that’s it.
R- There was Sidney Sagar and there was Baxter and Whipp. Who else was there? I can’t remember anyone else.
Aye that’s right. Was it fairly common for a manufacturer’s son to learn how to weave?
R- Well, he learned to weave to learn the business that’s all.
Yes I realise that but it’s like starting from the bottom isn’t it.
R- Yes, they had to learn from the beginning.
Would you say that was fairly common in those days?
R- Well in my day it was. Harold Slater, his mother married a Slater you see, she was Liza Nutter and her father was James Nutter and she married John Slater, well they used to call him Johnny. He was a cloth-looker at Nutters was her husband and Harold was learning the business and he’d to learn to weave see?
Aye. Did you have loom sweepers in those days or did you sweep your own?
R- Oh we swept our own. We had to do everything ourselves.
That’s it. That’s right. Was there a canteen?
R- No, there was just a boiler where you could go and brew your tea for breakfast. You took your own tea and your own mug. Some of the men used to have what they called kits. [Brew cans]
Yes, that’s it.
R- With a lid on but we always had our own mugs and took our tea and milk and sugar. [I can remember small double ended tins like oval mustard tins which held tea at one end and sugar at the other.]
Was that free that water or did they charge you for it?
R- Oh no, they didn’t charge for it.
Oh some mills did. Yes, aye.
R- No they didn’t, no. They were a good firm to work for were Nutter’s. If you did for Nutter’s they’d do for you. It was a good firm to work for.
Now at that time there’d be Nutters Brothers as well, another firm, wouldn’t there? There was James Nutter’s…
(550)
R- James Nutter and Sons.
Yes And then there were two more firms of Nutters weren't there. WD & E Nutter’s…
R- Yes, that’s right, they lived up here. Yes.
Yes? And there was also Nutter Brothers wasn’t there.
R – Yes, but that was Rupert &. Randall.
Yes. Now where did they weave, can you remember?
R- Yes, I think it was at Wellhouse Mill as far as I can remember. Was it at Earby? Did they have a place at Earby?
That’s it. Some of the Nutters did weave at Earby at one time but I’m not sure just when.
R- Yes, I think they were Rupert and Randall, the two youngest.
Yes, now I have heard it said, I don’t know whether it’s right or not, that it was Nutter Brothers who started to build Bancroft.
R- Yes it probably would be. I can remember the father dying [James Nutter] and I’d be only in my early teens. [He died on February 14th 1914 so Emma would be 19.]
And yet it was James Nutter and Sons that moved from Bancroft. [This was wrong] That’s the story I’ve been told. Now I don't know whether it’s true or not. I haven't asked anybody else but what I’ve been told is this, just see whether you know anything about it. They told me that at that time James Nutter was weaving down at Bankfield with 900 looms.
R- Yes, nearly 1000 looms.
Well that’s it, yes. Over 900 , that’s it. And I was told that Nutter Brothers actually first conceived the idea of building Bancroft Shed only then, when they started to build it, they weren’t going to call it Bancroft Shed.
R- Oh, weren’t they?
They were going to call it Newfield Shed.
R- Oh yes, like after Newfield Edge.
That’s it, Newfield Shed. But I think that from the impression I get, they realised that they’d bitten off a bit more than they could chew.
R - Well you see the war came, the war came and they were held up.
Yes, and what they tell me is that Nutter Brothers came to an arrangement with James Nutter and sons and James Nutter’s took over Bancroft and Nutter Brothers moved into Bankfield in place of James Nutter’s. Now whether that’s right or not I don’t know. I keep asking. And so you don’t know anything about that?
R - No.
That would be after the first world war. Yes.
R - Yes, well, after the first world MW you see I was married in 1920 but I still worked at Nutters at Bankfield for nearly four years, until 1924.
[Latest information about this question in 2003 is that James Nutter and Sons were one of the original tenants in Bankfield no. 1 shed when it was built in 1905. Rupert Nutter and Co was weaving at Grove and Albion in Earby and as Nutter and Turner at Sough Bridge mill. James Nutter formed the original concept of building Bancroft Shed but his death seems to have caused the handover of the project to Rupert Nutter. It looks as though he went in with his brother Randall and formed Nutter Brothers at this time. This was a new firm and was separate from R Nutter and Company. Nutter Brothers are mentioned as running Bancroft in a report in the Craven Herald dated 23 April 1930. It was at about this time when R Nutter and Company ran into trouble and failed and it seems that it was at this time that Wilfred Nutter took over Bancroft trading as James Nutter and Sons, the old firm which was in Bankfield with 900 looms.]
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So that’d be James Nutter and Sons at Bankfield and you were working for them there until 1924.
R- Yes, early 1924. I went, when I got married I said I was going out to work and I did. Mind you, I gave up the first week we paid the house off.
Well, that’s interesting because that mill started in, I think it was winter of 1920. [Christened on March 13 1920 and started soon afterwards, see Jack Platt evidence] Can you remember anything about Bancroft starting?
(25 min)
R- No I can’t. My brother was an overlooker there.[Fred Greenwood.] He went from Bankfield to Bancroft because he lived in one of those bungalows that face down to Salterforth. He was an overlooker there.
That’s it, so that means that Bancroft Shed started before James Nutters left Bankfield.
R- Oh yes.
So it looks to me as though it could have been Nutter Brothers that started Bancroft Shed.
R- Could be but I wouldn’t know.
But of course it’s no use saying it if we don’t know. So, you are weaving down at James Nutters at Bankfield and you’d met your husband.
R - I met my husband in 1916.
And then he had to go away to the war.
R- Yes, it was at the Liberal ‘At Home’ and he fell madly in love with me although I say it myself. I couldn’t get away, everywhere I were, he were there!
Aye, it sounds like a serious case!
R- Oh I know, we used to go out with a lot of, about four or five boys. We’d gone out with them from being about 15 and one of them said to me, well it was Sidney Brooks’ brother, Christopher Brooks’ brother, he were one of them. He says “Are you serious with Willy Emma?” I says “Oh, I don’t know, I never thought of settling down yet.” He says “Well, he’s a nice lad”
(650)
I says “Oh, yes he is, he’s very nice.” Anyway he had to join up at the end of March. I only knew him six weeks before he joined up. Anyhow, he wanted to write to me and all the rest of it and it went on from there.
So he joined up in March 1916, now was that conscription or…
R- No.
He volunteered?
R- Yes. Him and Frank Barrett you know. You know Frank Barrett the laundry man? Well his father and Billy and another young fellow were all pals and so was Eddie Bradley, Billy’s brother married Eddie Bradley’s sister. But he wasn’t going to join up but these other three wanted to get into the machine gun corps. They all had motor bikes and they were interested in things like that. They could have gone long since but they wanted to get in this corps and they’d to wait a bit. They went in in March, I know it was March, the end of March. So I’d only known him between six or seven weeks, I liked him but still you know, I couldn’t say it was really serious. But you see it goes on and I couldn’t have had a better man. One of the best of husbands was Billy.
So he went away to war and you were still weaving during the First World War. Was there food rationing during the First World War?
R- I can’t remember. See, all we thought about it were having a good time.
If you can’t remember it, it doesn’t matter.
R- I can’t remember.
Now can you remember anything being short during the first world war? Did the war have any effect on you? Did it have any noticeable effect on you, did it stop you doing anything that you usually did?
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R- Oh yes. Well you see we didn’t go on holiday like we did before. No, not the same. I mean, it was terrible. It was a terrible thing was the first world war. I mean, there were next door neighbours, their boy died. You know they were mown down in France weren’t they, they were just mown down every day you know. There was somebody you knew or somebody that your family knew, some of your family knew. It was a terrible time. And then that horrible flu came you know. That horrible flu, and scores of people, young people in Barlick died. I had two friends of mine, not that I went out with but two people that I knew very well, they both died with it. And we were all in bed with it at home, four sisters and me father and mother and I'd never been as ill in me life as I was, never. And, what did they call it? Asian flu? [Spanish actually]
What year was that?
R- That was nineteen, I think that was 1918, 1917 … It was 1917 I think. It was before the war finished. Yes, I think it would be 1917. It was horrible, I’d never been as ill in my life and there were funerals every day.
It was so bad?
R- Oh it was shocking, shocking. People said that you could see funerals going down Skipton Road every day. Just for a period. Well I know me and me girl friends, Billy was away at the war of course. One of them had a brother in law that lived at Gisburn, he was a policeman at Gisburn, and we often used to go for the day, four girls of us. They used to love us to go, because it was quiet you know, there were no buses or anything in them days. And we used to set off in the morning and have our dinner there and tea, four of us, and they used to love us to go.
You walked there of course?
R- Oh yes, there was no other way of going. And I felt on top of the world that morning. And after dinner I didn’t feel so well at all. I don’t know how I ever walked home that night. And as soon as I got in me mother said “Up them stairs you go!” and I was in bed a week and I’d never been as poorly in my life. I was weeks and weeks before I could walk fast at all. I was walking right slow. I was off my work for a month and then I slowly came to and I’m still living
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That’s it. And while you were at work then, did you ever join the Weavers Union?
R- No.
Did anybody ever ask you to join?
R- No. I don’t know but we never did. But there was a strike on at one time but we worked.
When was the strike? Can you remember?
R- Oh I can’t remember when it was. It was before I was married but I can’t remember when it was, what it was about or anything. But we didn’t strike because we didn’t believe in it. We didn’t believe in unions because the unions were only just beginning then you know.
That’s right. And when there was a strike were the looms filled up? Did other people come in?
R- Oh no, not everybody, no.
No? But I mean, were there enough tramp weavers to fill the looms up?
R- No, there were quite a few looms stopped.
Can yon remember tramp weavers waiting in the warehouse?
R- Oh yes.
Tell me about that.
R- Well, they used to come in, it started at six, the mill, it started at six in the morning you know. And sometimes there’d be half a dozen men, and if someone didn’t turn up for work they’d put a tramp weaver on for the day. They used to live at the Model Lodging House down Butts. That used to be what they called the Model Lodging House where a lot of these tramp weavers used to live. Yes and they’d come and stand and if there was no work, well, they’d go home, they’d go back. Sometimes there’d be one or two, you know if anybody was ill and couldn’t come top work, but you hadn’t to do. You’d to have an excuse for not going and you hadn’t to be late. You know Ted Nutter, he always used to be standing and I were always late. I were always last up at home. Me father used to get up early and make toast for us all and I used to, I couldn’t waken. I was terrible, awful and all the others were good getters up but not me and I slept with me sister and she’d get up but Emma wouldn’t waken.
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You sound a bit like Vera.
R - I couldn’t waken. And me father used to say "I get up at half past four and five o'clock to make you lot toasts and you can’t get up.” And they used to 1augh at me. I used to stand in front of the mirror to do me hair with me eyes shut. Oh it was hard work. To me it was cruel having to go to work at six o’clock.
(35 min)
It was.
R - Yet when I got there I was all right. And Ted Nutter used to be, he used to always be there before six and if you were late you’d get in a bit “Come, come, come” and that were all he used to say “Come, come, come”
And that’d be, they’d be on gas lighting down there then?
R- yes, mantles. They used to come round you know with a long taper, the tacklers.
That’s it. Aye. And I was just going to ask you sommat then. Gas lighting. I’ll come to it again. And in Winter, was the shed warm when you got in?
R- Yes. It was warm but not always warm enough do you know? Sometimes it was cold.
Yes. What was the heating system down there, was it overhead pipes?
R- Steam. Yes, steam from the boiler.
That’s it, yes. They were all the same, overhead piping, all warming the roof up and nothing going on to the looms. Aye. You that was what I wanted to ask you. Now tell me something, when you were weaving you’d be weaving with mule cops wouldn't you?
R- With what?
Mule cops, you know, paste bottom and paper bottom. You know, the weft.
R- Oh there were no paper inside the cops when we were weaving.
You were on paste bottoms then. Yes.
R- They were, it were the cops you know and you just had to work your way up.
Yes, that’s it. And if you didn’t broach your cop properly…
R- Oh yes you could make a mess of it. And you could make a lot of waste and you had to take your waste in every morning and it was Aaron Nutter you know [inspecting the waste] He was a relative of the Nutter family, not one of the brothers or anything but he never used to say anything to me. And me father was a weaver and he used to go out with Aaron at breakfast time, a few of them and Johnny Slater, Liza’s husband he used to go with them as well. Me father, Aaron and just a few of them and smoke at their pipes you know. But Aaron never, you know, and I didn’t like to have a lot of waste. ‘Cause I tried to be a good weaver you know. Well, I must have been because there weren’t many women had five looms. I didn’t like to have a lot of waste but if it were bad weft you couldn’t help it. You know, sometimes some makes of weft were better than others. There were Croft and Clover, I don’t know whether they are still going.
Croft’s still going.
R- Is it? Well we had Croft and Clover and one of them was better than the other. The other you know, you’d to be very careful or you couldn’t get your shuttle, your, you know, the steel pin, [shuttle peg] you couldn’t get that up the same.
Ah well, they were going anyway up to, we were still getting Croft up to not long since. Well nowadays you never know, they are going out just like that.
R- Yes. There were nothing only weaving here you know. Nothing, not another thing. There used to be Pickles engineers you know at New Mill. Well, they used to call it New Mill It’s, what do they call it now?
Wellhouse.
R- Wellhouse yes. Oh it was always called new Mill and Barrett’s laundry used to be there.
That’s it.
R - Before they built that one down Gisburn Street.
Yes, that’s right. And did you notice any difference during the First World War, was it noticeable that there were less men working?
R- Oh yes, definitely. Because you had to, I mean, definitely because a lot of them had to go. Next door to us they had three at the war and the middle one died, he was about my age, Frank Sagar. And he was one of the very early ones to go, and although they had a big family they were very upset about him, he were a nice lad.
Well. It was a terrible thing, I know.
R- Eh it was dreadful.
One of the good things that did come out of the First World War in a lot of peoples opinion was that it did a lot for women. Would you agree with that? You know what I mean don’t you? It brought women, perhaps not so much in Barlick because there’d always been a tradition of women working in the mills, but in a lot of places it enabled women to go out and take jobs that they’d never have been able to have before.
R- Yes, I suppose it would yes.
Would you agree with that?
R - Not In Barlick I don’t think ‘cause there was nothing else in Barlick. There was nothing only weaving in Barlick.
Yes that’s it. But it was really accepted that women did go out to work wasn’t it in war time.
(900)
R- Yes, Either you went into a shop or if you wanted to, if you were clever and went to the grammar school and went in for teaching. Well that was different you see but the usual thing was for ordinary people to go into the mill and there were some decent people in the mill, very decent people.
(40 min)
Oh yes. Just the same as there is now. Yes.
R - Yes, there is.
Would you say that as far as the manufacturers were concerned trade was good during the first world war?
R- What was good?
Trade?
R- Oh yes, I should think so yes, I should say so. Because we ran six looms you know because there were so many men off, me sister and I had twelve looms. Not for a long time, perhaps for twelve months or so when such a lot had to go. To keep going you see.
How much a piece were you getting then, do you remember?
R- No I can’t. Well, the average wage for four looms was about 24/- So perhaps we’d make 34/- or something like that.
Aye. So you'd only be on about 4 shillings a piece at that wouldn't you?
R- Fourteen?
I say, about f our, I say you’d only be on about four shillings a piece at that.
R- Oh yes.
Because that’d be like six pieces.
R- No, six shillings if you had four looms.
Yes but I mean for each piece.
R- Oh yes, for each piece.
Because I mean, if you were really lucky you’d get two pieces off each loom in a week wouldn’t you.
R – Well. It just depends on what kind, you know.
Yes, but if it was an average sort and you were really lucky you’d get about six pieces of four looms in a week wouldn’t you.
R- Yes I should say so, yes.
So that’d make it about four bob apiece wouldn’t it.
R- Yes, that was the average wage was 24/- in the First World War.
And then of course the war ended in 1918 and Billy came back.
R- Billy came back. It ended in November and he came, he got a Christmas leave and he thought he’d get his demob but anyway he had to go back. But he was back in less than a week. He had to go back to Germany and he was back in less than a week.
In 1916 they went off and volunteered, they wanted to join.
R- Yes, oh yes.
And what did he have to say about it when he came back?
R- Well eventually he was in the Tank Corps you know. Was the …
Machine Guns.
R- Machine Gun Corps, it was the tanks and I know he just came home after he joined up, he came home after seven weeks and he said then they’d never been out of camp for over a month. There was something very secret going on. He never told me what it was and when it came out it was the tanks. He said it was a dead secret. And he said when the tanks went out the first time he said the Germans were staggered. And he didn’t come home then till I think it was about September when he came home, August perhaps. That was his last leave and he didn’t come home till twelve moths the following Christmas. So that was just over a year before he came home on leave. And of course we had corresponded all the time and when he came home on leave…. Oh I’ll tell you something now. He only come home for, he’d travelled all Friday night, he wrote to say that he’d be home on the Saturday. He was travelling all night and he’d come down for me and he’d be at the top of our street at two o’clock. So I knew he was there you know. I waited till about five past two but Billy was waiting. It was lovely weather so we had a lovely walk, that was all there were to do in those days. And he left me, his father had got married again and was living at Barrowford. Before he joined up, Billy was living with a friend of his mother’s and George as well but George got married before Billy joined up. So I left him at teatime and he said he’d be down again at about quarter to seven, top of our street. Well, he never landed. Oh well, and Jessie, my younger sister, she was about fourteen at the time and her friend, they kept going to the top of the street to see if he’d come. I said Oh well, I’ve finished with him, I’m not going out with him any more. I wouldn’t have cared but all my friends had gone out. I didn’t know where they were. So at nine o’clock, about a quarter to nine, I thought oh, I’m going to bed. He hadn’t turned up so I got undressed and went to bed. And about nine o’clock Olive comes in, she says Billy’s outside. And I said well he mun stay outside! She says don’t be so silly, he were travelling all night. She says he was travelling all night and he told Mrs Broughton to wake him at half past five and she’d never wakened him. He’d overslept…. [End of tape]
SCG/22 January 2003
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