THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON THE 17th OF SEPTEMBER 1978 AT HEY FARM, BARNOLDSWICK. THE INFORMANT IS ARTHUR ENTWISTLE, RETIRED ENGINEER AND THE INTERVIEWER IS STANLEY GRAHAM.
Now when did you first have electric light Arthur?
R - First have electric light? That would be 1935.
Ah, so that wouldn’t be at St. James Square?
R - No this was after I was married of course.
That's it, well we'll get round to that when we got round to your marriage. Now how did you dispose of the household rubbish in St. James Square?
R- Oh there was dustbins. Just let me get this right. We used to have what they call an ash pit not dustbins, and that was emptied periodically. It was, all the refuse was tipped into this, it was open with a roof on this ash pit because the main heavy rubbish was the ashes from the fires. Cartons and paper of course was fired but empty tins, well when you think of it, tins of salmon were a luxury in those days so there wasn’t much rubbish like that. There’d be mainly ashes, coal ashes and things like that, that was rubbish.
So It ud be true to say that very little ud get thrown in the ash pit that would ever start smelling. Most of the stuff had been through the fire first.
R- More or less, yes.
Yes, and many a time, tell me if I'm wrong, many a time even the tins were put through the fire weren’t they.
R- Yes it's always been, and you may quote this, it's always been a habit of mine, even today. From the point of view of discouraging vermin and health hazards. I always have done, and I even remember me dad always burned empty tins when we were lucky enough to have salmon.
Yes, and apart from that, you know yourself, a tin either side of the fire hole makes the hole smaller doesn’t it, you can get by with a smaller fire.
R- Yes, that’s true.
I've seen that done in our house, you know, an A1 tall tin each side of the fire and it's amazing, it'll save half a shovel full of coal in a day. Aye. Now how did your mother do her washing?
R- Well, rubbing board, dolly tub, posser. The early posser was a thing with four legs on like a stool on a stilt which you twisted round and then later on there came conical shaped copper things with pipes threaded through which would then squirt the water different ways through the wash. In other words to get, force the dirt out of the clothes by the friction of the water. And of course the old wooden rollered wringing machine which invariably stood in the back yard in many cases with an old coat thrown over the top to protect it from the elements because they were a cumbersome thing.
How about, I nearly said washing powder! What did she use for washing? Did she use soap or..?
R- She used to use grated soap in the early days until the washing powders came on the market, say in the middle thirty's.
How long did it take her to do the washing?
R- A full day without question or doubt.
And how often did she do it?
R - Once a week.
And how did she dry it?
R - Well if it couldn't be dried outside it was dried inside on the maiden and then when it was sufficiently dry it was ironed and then put up on a rack which you wound up, long bars of wood..
That's it, in front of the fireplace on pulleys.
R- On pulleys yes, which was wound up and you’d hang your clothes there.
Would a rack like that be a luxury Arthur or would it be a fairly common thing in almost any house?
R- No I wouldn’t say it was a common thing in every house, if you had one that wound up on pulleys you see it was a luxury. Prior to that it was a piece of string hung across the fireplace and you put a few clothes on it with the risk of scorching or what have you. But the mantelpieces were fairly broad and fairly far out from the wall in many cases and that's how they got by.
What can you remember most clearly about washing day?
R- Well, most clearly, the personal discomfort in the home of wet clothes hanging about, irregular meals because when washing was in progress it was, well you take your bloody chance sort of thing.
Would Monday be the usual washing day?
R- Monday invariably was washing day.
(5 mins)
So dinner on Monday would be resurrections?
R- Well, come back to St James Square where there was a limited area there was a communal arrangement where Mrs So and So would wash on one day and Mrs So and So would wash on the other day so that the lines would be available for all the washing in the yard. It was a kind of a small, very small community arrangement which until the women fell out, which they invariably did, seemed to work successfully.
And how did your mother clean the house Arthur?
R- Clean the house. [laughs] Well I think today's modern woman would shudder. You had a stiff broom and I remember, as I remarked earlier on, you would have coconut matting and the floor was vigorously brushed with this stiff brush. Occasionally the mat would be rolled back and the muck underneath that would be brushed out through the doorway and out, into the back yard more often than not. Carpet sweeper, well until you got into a house with the luxury of a wooden floor and carpets, they were practically, virtually unknown and in the house that we were living in it wouldn’t have been a bit of use nor would a vacuum. Well a vacuum might have been but…
(100)
Now about furniture Arthur, can you remember anything about the furniture?
R- The furniture was always the hard bottomed hard backed kitchen chair. Sometimes bentwood chairs which have gone out of fashion. One always had a big square table with a white deal top, well scrubbed and of a Sunday of course you always had a cloth on it. During the week you would have had what we called an American cloth on it, it was a kind of, well..
Soft oil-cloth?
R- That’s right yes.
Yes, I know what you mean. Was there a sideboard?
R- We did have a sideboard yes.
Corner cupboard?
R – No, no corner cupboard.
Was there any piece of furniture that your mother particularly looked after? You know, that she was very particular about.
R - Well this again was at a different period of time. It seemed to me that we had the best furniture when me father was in the army. I remember we had a round table, a mahogany table with a velvet table cloth.
That's before you went into St James Square.
R - Yes that was while me father was in the army. But after that until we left St. James Square it was just what you might call good solid rough uncomfortable kitchen furniture.
Aye that’s a good description.
R - Well to give you an idea. I didn't have a seat. My sister and I this was before the other two boys were born, was not allowed to sit at table, we stood up for our meals and when I wasn't playing out my seat was a coal bucket by the fireside with a sack on top of it.
Aye.
(150) )10 mins)
R- And when I started work I was allowed to sit down at the table.
We'll get on to that when we get on to meals Arthur. I'm very interested in that but we’ll get on to that when we get on to the meals. Did you or your brothers and sisters do any jobs in the house?
Oh yes, yes definitely. I must just point out here that there’s a discrepancy of twelve years between my other brothers and myself and my sister. One of my jobs, we had a steel fender round the fire, in front of the fire, and the usual fire irons, tongs and long poker and it was polished steel and my job was to brush the hearth, take the ashes out from underneath the fire, which was in a pit under the fire with a grate on top to let the finer ashes through. The other, the cinders, you used to shovel back on the fire. But anyway to come back to the fender, the method of cleaning it was a piece of rag, and you spit on it put it into the grit, the dust off the ashes, then scour the steel work of the fender and then polish it until you could see your face in it. Not only that,
my mother and father were working and I were still at school so we had to wash up and lay the table ready for our parents coming home. Of course, chopping the fire wood, bringing the coal in and running the Sunday errands was all part of life we didn't question it.
Did your father do any work in the house, like mending things or decorating, cleaning, cooking or anything like that?
R - Well not regularly. I remember, we’re still, we're back in St. James Square when he came out of hospital, the military hospital before he was fit to work and mother was working he did cook the meals and I must say this, he was a very proficient cook at that which I believe he had learned whilst he was in the forces. But what he used to commonly call Mary Anning such as washing a floor, scrubbing a floor, no. He would make a meal and superintend me sister and meself doing other jobs in the house until he got fit enough to go to start work,
(200)
R - Oh he could cook, but after that, after he started work, we would never do anything in the house at all. It were what he called Mary-Anning.
When you lived in St. James Square did the family own that house?
R - No. Rented property.
Any idea what the rent was?
R- To be quite honest I haven’t. I think during the war years it was about 8/6d and then it went up I think to 10/-. (ten shillings)
When you say during the war years, do you mean the first world war?
R - Yes. The first world war.
How was the landlord?
R - That I don't know.
Did you ever hear your parents saying anything about him? Whether he was a good landlord or a bad one?
R- No I can't recollect they did. The only thing I might have heard them complain that he never did any decorating for you. You did all your own painting more often than not, white washing the rooms or distempering 'em according to your circumstances.
When you say decorating, do you mean inside or outside?
R - Inside and I remember outside, me dad did cement wash it every year.
Cement wash the stone work?
R - Cement wash the stone work.
Did your mother do any work in the house to earn a little bit extra money. You know like child minding or taking in washing or anything?
R- No I can’t remember her minding anybody else's child because she was always at work herself and I don't recollect, she wasn't a needlewoman.
Did she weave up till when she died Arthur?
R - Well 1 can't say up till she died. Lets say she wove until she left the town in 1940.
Yes of course, I'm sorry I was forgetting that. Were there any women in the neighbourhood doing anything in the home to make a bit of extra money, like taking in washing or mending, dressmaking.
(15 mins)
R - Yes very often some women neighbours, I can't specify who because it's a long time ago. Many of them would cook a meal in their own home and have it ready for a neighbour and was paid for doing it. So that they had a hot meal when they came in from work.
Good idea too.
R - And I had an aunty who was very, very skilful at crocheting and needlework and so was popular and so good that she could knock quite a bit of money up at it.
(250)
R- Course in those days interior decorations, the fireplace being the focal point in the house, eventually instead of just having the iron mantelpiece they started off with having a board put on top. Extending it and deepening it, and then having it curved. And very often either they would have a velvet pelmet as we would call it today or more often than not it was needlework, made in kind of like a green hard linen type of stuff, hard wearing. And she could knock up quite a bob or two on that. And she even crochet and knit baby’s shawls and that sort of thing and made herself quite a bit of money.
What did your mother cook on?
R- Well we had the old fashioned range, oven. More often than not in those days it was pans on the top bars as we called it. The kettle was on a swinging iron above the fireplace, swung away if it wasn't needed. I remember the main diet in those days was hashes, stews and that. In my days, what I used to consider to be a luxury was plum duff.
Aye, we'll get on to plum duff in a minute or two. When did your mother have her first gas stove?
R- Now then.
That's a difficult question actually I know.
R- First gas stove, I’m just trying to get, she had her first gas stove, oven when she left St James Square and went to live in Lower North Avenue.
So all the time you were in St. James Square it was..?
R- Open fire and an oven.
Open fire. Reight Arthur. Did she bake her own bread?
R- Yes.
And how often did she bake?
R- Sometimes twice a week.
And did she bake cake. When you say twice a week, she didn’t bake, well obviously I was just going to ask a silly question then. I was going to ask you if she baked enough for all week when she was baking twice a week. I'll forget that question Arthur. Did she bake cake?
R - Well what one would call today oven-bottom cakes, sad cakes, currant cakes.
(300)
How about fruit loaf, sweet loaf?
R- Very rarely, they were luxury.
You see that’s a striking thing, well I say striking, that’s a small thing that nowadays, when we talk about cake we mean what you and Amy, that’s your wife of course, that's for the tape because they don’t know that your wife's called Amy yet, would call sweet loaf and fruit loaf.
R - No when I say cakes I mean what were commonly called sad cakes. Unleavened some people would say.
That’s it, oven-bottom cakes, sad cakes.
R - Some with currants in and some plain. And the sad cake we used to eat warm from the oven, quarter it, slice it down the middle and put margarine or butter as the case may be. And we used to eat them warm.
Did she ever make it with mint in?
R - No not to my knowledge.
It's nice with mint in. Did she make pies?
R- Oh good lord yes. She was renowned for making pies.
What kind?
R - Meat pies and meat and potato pies.
And sometimes if things were bad, just tattie and onion?
R - Very often, sometimes a little bit of corned beef which was a cheap form of food in those days.
Did she make jam or marmalade?
R - Not very often, not very often.
If she did, did your mother have a jam pan?
R- I don't think she did as such. If she made jam of course cast iron pans would range from, I won't say quite enormous, but largish pans down to what we called milk pans.
(20 mins)
Yes.
R - So there was no such thing as a proper jam pan as we know today. Brass or copper.
Did she make home made wine or beer?
R - No never.
Pickles?
R - No not to my knowledge.
Did she ever make any of her own medicine?
R- Well, if you can call it medicine. Yes she would make a kind of medicine where she combined sulphur, thick black Spanish and some sort of evil concoction when you had a cold or whatever, it sort of cured all, kill or cure.
Well as far as your mother was concerned that was medicine, she was making her own medicine, yes that's it.
(350)
R- It was medicine yes.
And how about sulphur and black treacle. Brimstone and treacle?
R- Brimstone and black treacle. That was a common thing in the Spring. If you got a bit spotty or something like that.
You know my mother was the same, she had this idea that sulphur cured spots. It did something to your blood, purified the blood.
R- That’s right purify, that's it.
You could get sulphur tablets couldn't you. Do you remember them? You used to suck them. Ernie Roberts tells a good tale about that, about his mother dosing him with flowers of sulphur for tonsillitis and the way she did it, she put it in a tube and blew it down his throat, and be blew first so there you are.
R – (Arthur laughs] Coming back to home, what you might term home remedies. Of course in those days I didn't know a lot about those sort of things myself, but I can remember amongst the women, Senna pods was a universal must to make sure that they had their menstrual periods. There was a firm belief in Senna pods too if they thought they were pregnant. If they missed a week it was always Senna pods or a strong brew of Senna pod tea.
Have you ever come across Penny Royal?
R- Now then, this is only vaguely in my mind. I’ve heard the name but I can’t remember. I’m not going to honestly say that I knew of it at all. I've heard of it.
I've been told that penny royal, I've no knowledge of this, I haven’t gone in to it. But I’ve been told that penny royal was a herb which was supposed to be of value in inducing an abortion.
R- You've jogged my memory. That's where I may have heard of it listening to women talk. You know as you were a kid, well they think you're a kid, you have big ears and you hear a lot of things you're not supposed to do. As I say I'd heard of penny royal but didn't connect anything until you've just mentioned it now.
Yes, well that make it suspect. Now you were mentioning earlier on about the lady that got sent to Strangeways.
(401)
Would that be a fairly common thing in those days. I mean obviously a lot of women would be frightened of pregnancy wouldn't they. They were in such, there was such poverty. Was it fairly common, abortion?
R- It was, it was quite common. I'd go as far as to say it was common even in the late thirties. Not as common as it had been, because married women invariably, as far as my aunt goes that was sent to Strangeways, it was invariably unmarried women or in some cases during the war, where their husband had been away on service and it couldn’t possibly have been, you understand what I mean? And then they went for help for creating an abortion. She did it manually, I can't say just exactly how but as far as 1 can remember it was sort of if you could prick or puncture the womb it would bring about an abortion. But of course where so many young women died was by the lack of the proper high sterilised equipment, if you follow what I mean. And there were certainly a lot of young women did lose their lives by it. That's why the law was so strict and they jumped down heavily on women that were known to abort people. As I say she got many a woman out of trouble in this town and then of course when she went to prison nobody knew her. But she lived it down you see. A sort of nine days wonder.
(25 mins) (450)
What did you usually have for breakfast Arthur? Straight from abortions to breakfast Arthur.
R- Porridge on some occasions, toast on some occasions. Bread an jam invariably and this, I might emphasise on this, the only time one saw an egg was on a Sunday and until I got working my sister and I shared an egg. If it was boiled it was hard boiled, cut exactly in two and we had half an egg each. Or if it was fried in the frying pan it was turned over and we had half an egg each. It wasn't until I got working or started apprenticeship that I was allowed to have a full egg. Then of course my sister had to have a full one, because there wasn't anybody to cut in half with if you follow what I mean.
Aye it ud he a good thing for her wouldn't it. [both laugh]
R - Yes and then I was allowed to sit down at the table.
Yes now you were saying about this. Now you've mentioned one or two things that are starting, to knit together. Now we've got the big square wooden table with a scrubbed top, you've said that on occasions there was American cloth on it.
R- More often during the week.
Yes that’s it. Now at weekend, what was there on the table.
R- Well you’d have, I don't know whether I'd call it linen but it was, it had a design woven into it type of thing.
Tablecloth.
R- Tablecloth.
Yes. Now when you had a meal, during the week we're talking about now, did all the family have the meal at the same time?
R- Always unless [someone was working].
Did all the family sit down?
R- No, not until I got working.
Did any of the family get to sit at the table before they started working?
R- No.
Did everybody at the table have the same things to eat?
R- More or less yes. Apart from, as I say, when you come to the egg and you only had a half.
Yes.
R- But apart from that if it were, well mussels and cockles or
(500)
fish and chips or hash, stew or whatever it was, we all had the same sort of food.
On the whole would you say your fathers diet, and the food he ate, was it better or worse than yours or just about the same?
R- Just be about the same, only the quantities would be different.
Yes. And did the family have a garden or an allotment?
R- Oh no, not at that time.
But later on?
R - Well later on the old man had a hen pen down the Butts where he had a few fowl and goats.
And did he use the produce himself or did he sell any.
R- Used it domestically.
Yes that's it.
He reared young goats and when they were old enough he’d slaughter them and we’d eat them in the family. When I say the family, I mean uncles, aunties.
Did he slaughter the goats?
R- Oh yes. He used to bring ‘em home, bring them into the bathroom the young goat…
Into the…?
R- Into the house..
Yes, you said bathroom.
R- This is when we were in Lower North Avenue when we’d moved up just as I said. And of course he’d use the bathroom as a slaughterhouse, the animal in the bath until it bled and then it was skinned and cut up and uncles and various relatives had portions of it because you'd no means of keeping it you see. But I will say this, people today would look down their nose on it but I’ll say this, it was far superior to any of the best lamb you could possibly buy today.
This was Goat meat?
R- Goat flesh.
And what year would that be about Arthur?
R- Let's see, 1926 or 1927. Thereabouts.
1926 or 1927, aye just about when your dad finished for the railway.
R- Yes.
How much milk did the family get each day?
R- Narthen. I couldn’t say with certainty, because milk was relatively cheap. I could safely say it ‘ud be a minimum of a pint a day.
Yes.
R- A minimum.
How often was it delivered?
R- Morning and evening.
And how was it delivered?
R- Well horse and cart, kits and boys with little cans with the correct measure came into your house and poured it into a jug and then back to the cart, get it filled up and deliver it next door, the milk boys.
And did the family have butter, did your mother use butter?
R- Not very often. It was more often than not margarine.
How about dripping?
R- And dripping.
What fruit did you eat most often?
R- Well, I should say if we did have any fruit as a luxury it more often tin pears and things like that.
Aye, and how about fresh fruit?
R- Very little unless what you bought when you was going to school, that sort of thing.
Now there's a thing, you don't eat fruit do you?
R- I don't now but I did until I was fifteen.
Yes, what changed you Arthur?
R- Well 1 don't know, it's something psychological I think. Down Frank Street there was a big greengrocer’s shop and fruiterers and what have you. Not only was he retail he was wholesale and there must have been fruit gone bad and I know I was passing this place one day and I must have got a real lung full of this. What I would call a stench and today the very smell of fruit puts me off. I don’t know why, something psychological. I can’t really explain it.
Well we're not in the business of explaining, no, that's all right Arthur.
(600)
Now I’ll just mention a few foods here and just tell me if you had them, every week or once a month or very rarely or never. Bananas?
R- Bananas, sometimes we’d have them on Sunday as a dessert at tea-time after a meal of sandwiches and what have you, with skimmed milk on. Cream was virtually unknown. Bananas sliced up you know with milk, tinned milk and sugar.
[Arthur means evaporated skimmed milk when he says skimmed milk. It was a cheap alternative to cream]
If yon had bananas with the skimmed milk and the sugar would it be usual to have bread and butter with it as well?
R- Yes I’ve know me sister and I've seen me dad make sandwiches out of 'em.
How about rabbit?
R- Well I wouldn't say every week, but if I said twice a month that we had rabbit pie I wouldn't be far wrong.
Where did the rabbit come from?
R- My uncle was a poacher.
Oh there was a lot went on! How about fried food, out of the frying pan Arthur?
R- Fried food, well apart from bacon, kippers, the occasional Haddocks something like that there was not much fried food.
Any other sort of fish?
R- I’ll tell you, well I’m telling a lie when I say there wasn't.
(35 mins)
One would have what we called bubble and squeak. In other words what we didn’t finish at Sunday dinner in the way of cabbage and potatoes and what have you was all chopped up and put in the frying pan and fat with it. And believe you me you can make a bloody good meal out of it with a slice of bread.
Aye, I've eaten it myself. Did your mother used to fry it until it went brown on the bottom or did she just...
R- Yes more or less when it was just starting to stick to the pan and that was it.
Just started to stick to the pan and that were it aye. Me mother were the same. Fish Arthur, apart from, you mentioned kippers and a bit of haddock fried you know. Did you ever have fish in any other way?
(650)
R - No.
We’re including shell fish of course.
R - Only the Finnan Haddock boiled, it was invariably boiled.
Yes with milk.
R- That's about all.
Yes, and you've mentioned cockles and mussels..
R – Well, Cockles and mussels.
Yes that's it.
R - In season of course.
Is there a season for cockles and mussels?
R – Yes.
Well do you know I didn’t know that Arthur.
R- Yes.
Well that's happen why I've been so poorly off 'em from time to time. Cheese?
R- Well there again I never ate cheese. Although there was cheese in the house.
Any particular reason why you didn't eat it or you just didn’t like it?
R- Well as 1 said it dates back to this psychological thing about smell. Now if I don't like the smell of anything I couldn't eat it to save me life. I couldn't sit down and eat a curry even though it might be delectable. But I just couldn’t and it's always been the same with vinegar or sauce even. The smell disagrees with me so I couldn't face it.
How about cow heel?
R - Oh yes cow heel.
Tripe, trotters, black pudding?
R - Tripe, trotters, black pudding, yes.
Great stuff.
R - Coming to black pudding. If I may just emphasise one little point here I don’t know why it was, but it was sort of a family custom in my father’s family and how long it went back I don't know, but Christmas Day breakfast was always nothing else but black pudding and bread.
Yes. Was it fried or boiled?
R - Fried.
Yes I like it fried. Eggs, well you've told us about eggs haven't you. They were a luxury. Tomatoes?
(700)
R - Never eat them.
Grapefruit?
R - Oh grapefruit wasn’t, at that time you're speaking of I don't think it had been cultivated.
Sheep’s head?
R - Very often.
Very often.
R- It was my mothers favourite. Sheep’s head with, I’m trying to think of it.
Lentils?
R - Not lentils, it’s another, is it barley?
Pearl barley?
R - Pearl barley.
Yes.
R – She’d sit and pick at a sheep’s head for hours.
Did your family ever had tinned food?
R- Occasionally, as I say high days and holidays you'd have tinned salmon, something like that.
Corned beef?
R- Corned beef. Oh corned beef very often was taken to work for sandwiches, in between your sandwiches. For dinner time, lunch time.
Yes. Can you ever remember tinned food being bad?
R- Being bad?
Yes.
R- No I can't say. I can't say honestly that I do.
Aye. Did the family drink tea?
R- Tea yes.
Cocoa.
R- Cocoa often yes.
Coffee?
R- Coffee, never.
Never. When you say never, why, price?
R- Well it might have been price or it might have been parents preference I don't know.
What did you have for Christmas dinner?
(750) (40 mins)
R- Now then, we’d either have a big hen, I never knew the luxury of a, I think once we did have a goose but never turkey. Sometimes a duck, but when there was a family of six of us, when me other two brothers were born, of course we used to get a good big fat hen or a couple of cock chickens you know. Enough to feed the family for that one meal. Same as the way today, as you know yourself, they get a turkey at Christmas and the damn things kicking about in the New Year if you're not careful if there's a small family. That’s it aye. Christmas pudding?
R- Always.
Always. What were your favourite foods when you were a child?
R- Favourite foods?
Yes.
R- Well my favourite food was meat and potato pie or pie and peas.
[Stanley laughs] It figures Arthur! What did you have to eat when the family was particularly hard up?
R- Ah, now then. Well it was more often bread and scrat as my mother called it. Bread and scrat which were dripping. Or bread and margarine and invariably jam like.
I must just say it while I think Arthur. As you know in many ways we've had similar setting offs in life. If you had bread and dripping did you ever get the luxury of pepper on it?
R - Salt.
Never pepper?
R- Not often, because I’ve never been a lover of pepper individually.
Aye that's it yes. You see I forget. But was it there if you wanted it, was it there?
R - Oh it was there if you wanted it yes.
Would you say that pepper was a fairly cheap spice, would nearly everybody have it?
R- I don't think it was a cheap spice in those days, a more common thing that was used, we had often on a Sunday, which you haven't mentioned or asked me, if I might butt this in. Invariably we’d have a milk pudding, rice pudding on a Sunday and I always remember me mother having a nutmeg and a grater and sprinkling lavishly nutmeg on the top of the pudding.
It makes you wonder if she’d have done it if she'd have known. I mean they say now a days that nutmeg is an aphrodisiac. It makes you wonder if your mother ud have been sprinkling nutmeg on.
R - [Arthur laughs] I don't know..
It is one theory..
R - Is it really,
It's reckoned to be a fairly potent drug nutmeg you know.
R- Oh, I didn't know that.
Yes. I can believe it an all, it tastes very strong doesn’t it. And it certainly does warm your stomach up. Did your father come home for all his meals?
R- Put it this way, if he wasn’t on a boozing session yes.
Oh good, that'll come in later. If not, if he didn't, well you’ve just said that he did, but can you remember him, you know, actually saying that he wasn't coming home and taking something to work with him?
(850)
R- Well can I re-cap back to when he started work on the railway. Very often he used to have to take a basin. When he worked on the railways it wasn't always possible to come home because he worked what would be called shift system today, there was an early turn and a late turn. First of all he was in the goods yard and very often I used to have to take his dinner down, it was done in a basin with a plate on top, rag round it. And you'd to go like hell down to the station yard to make sure he got his dinner hot enough so you didn't get your ear hole boxed. But apart from that, that’s just a case when he couldn’t get home for meals due to his occupation, otherwise he came home to all his meals, more or less.
Aye. How often would you say you took his grub down for him?
R- Oh, two to three times a week at least.
Do you think your mother ever went short of food to feed the rest of you?
R- Yes.
You're sure about that?
R- I'm sure about that.
What makes you so sure?
R - Well, it’s only in the light of later years that you think about these things and I remember sitting down, my sister and I sitting down to a meal and mother not sitting down to with us. Of course in those days, one assumed that she'd had her meal, which I suppose she probably intended us to think. But in later years I realised that she didn’t have a meal to feed us.
Yes. Who usually did the shopping?
(45 mins) (900)
R - Oh mother always did the shopping.
Yes.
R- Unless she sent us kids on an errand.
Yes. How often was it done?
R- Well in those days you'd to give your order into the shop which isn’t done to-day and it would be delivered to the house. You know more often than not I think we had food delivered to the house.
Yes, where were the vegetables bought Arthur?
R- At Savages.
Aye it figures, and where was the meat bought?
R- More often than not the frozen meat shop.
Dewhursts?
R - The Argentine.
Yes the Argentine, Dewhursts aye. And of course in those days it was the poorest people that went to the what they called 'Frozen' shop wasn’t it?
(950)
R- Aye definitely yes.
Yes. Where were the groceries bought?
R- Well, where the swap shop is now there was a very big grocer. I think his name was Singleton. I always remember that shop because he had a poster in the window of fried eggs with lashings of pepper on the top, you know, succulent looking. And the shop it sold everything type of thing, from butter out of a tub or margarine out of the box and the..
Just one little thing there now, that's something that's not been mentioned, butter out of a tub.
R - Out of a tub yes.
That’s it and it's, well the barrel's been lined with paper and then filled with butter hasn't it they used to break the barrel away from it.
R - Yes. They'd take the lid off, start there and then they'd break a couple of staves off. Serve down to that level and then they'd take the other staves off until you get down to the bottom of the butter. By that time then, if it wasn’t a shop that had a big turnover, it was getting a little bit worse for wear as one might term it.
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SCG/07 May 2003
6,500 words.