THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON THE 10th of JANUARY 1979 AT YORK HOUSE, THE HOME OF THE INFORMANT ON LINKS ROAD, ST ANNES ON SEA. THE INFORMANT IS GEORGE FORRESTER SINGLETON, RETIRED SENIOR PARTNER IN THE FIRM OF G F SINGLETON AND COMPANY, ESTATE AGENTS, OF BLACKBURN. THE INTERVIEWER IS MARY HUNTER.
Now, Mr Singleton, this morning we are going to look at your very earliest memories. So in fact it's more of a social tape than a tape about your working life. So if we start in the household. One or two of those things you may have told us in your first tape but that doesn't matter. How old are you?
R- 89.
When were you born?
R - 30th November 1889.
And where?
R- At Darwen.
Can you remember the street?
R - Yes. 41 Belgrave Road.
41 Belgrave Road, Darwen. Can you remember how many years you lived in that house?
R – Yes, nine and a half.
And how many other houses can you remember living in while you were young?
(50)
R - Oh, one other. Because when I was nine and a half, my father, owing to my mother’s health, came to live to St Annes and he brought his family of six, and we lived here until I was 16 when I was ready to go to work. In fact I had got a job at a cotton mill in Blackburn, so the family removed to Blackburn in 1906.
For you to be able to start the work there?
R- That’s right.
And so you moved to St Annes in the first place because of the health features of a coastal town.
R- Yes.
Where was your father born?
R- At Darwen.
Same place. And your mother?
R- Broughton, Manchester.
And you say you were one of six?
R- Yes.
How many brothers and sisters did you have?
R- Two sisters, and three brothers.
And whereabouts did you come?
R- The eldest.
The eldest. Did any of your brothers and sisters die as children?
R- No.
You were a healthy lot.
(100)
R- Very healthy lot. As a matter of fact my two sisters are alive. One 87 and the other 86. And my youngest brother is 81. I have two brothers who died in their seventies.
I think it’s called longevity isn’t it.
R- Longevity, that’s right.
While you were young, can you remember any of your relatives living in the same house?
R- Yes, my mother’s aunt who was eight years older than her grandmother. She died in 1894 or 1892.
It doesn’t really matter.
R- And so in early days we had two extra living with us you see. My great grandmother died in 1894 and my mother’s aunt died in 1898.
So she would be quite young in fact. Would she?
R- She was 46.
Can you remember what from?
(150)
R- Cancer, and in those days there was no cure. But there isn’t a cure now. But there was very little relief and I can remember she suffered agony.
She was at home most of the time and she wasn’t hospitalised?
R- Oh no. Oh never thought of that you see, not for that complaint. Now, to relieve pain they gave her brandy and champagne.
Really?
R- Yes, there were no drugs as we understand them. In other words, alcohol in one form or another to relieve the pain. Oh the agony was terrific, I can remember.
So in fact you had two extra people only really while you were young.
R- That’s all.
Yes. Until you moved here?
R- No, none here.
None here. And did you ever have lodgers? Not even perhaps during the first world war?
R – No.
Can you remember what your father’s job was when you were born?
(200)
R- Yes. Textile machinery merchant and mill furnisher. It was connected with the textile trade, of course.
And did he remain with that job or did he have a change?
R- No, he was in business on his own account.
How old was he when he died?
R- 88.
So you’d be well grown up by then.
R- I’m just leaving him you know. Yes, he was about two months short of eighty nine. So I have just beaten him.
You have haven’t you? What was your mother’s job before she married?
R- Teacher. School mistress.
And did she continue with that work after she was married do you know? She stopped once she was married yes, and did she go back to teaching after?
R- No. No, she’d a family in quick succession you see?
And even after you were grown up?
R- No.
So she didn’t have any other sort of a job, part time or work in the home or anything like that?
R- No. She had plenty to do bringing up a family of six you see?
Of course, yes. How old was she when she died?
R- 80.
So it comes from both sides, this long life doesn’t it.
R- It does.
And did any of your brothers and sisters leave St Annes or even Blackburn after they had left school, for jobs? I think we must count Blackburn as your base probably.
(250)
R- Yes, Blackburn is the base now. Well, in that space of years you see.
Did they leave to go to a job, or did they all get jobs locally?
R- Well, it’s difficult to say for this reason. Well now, take my oldest sister, she went to a teacher’s training college, she came back to Blackburn, taught in a local school and then she got a job with another education authority and left home for a few years and then she came back again to help mother and start up on her own account. She commenced a private school, Westholme School, which is now a Trust and has 600 scholars.
So it’s still running to this day.
R- Yes. Then my younger sister stayed at home to help my mother for a number of years and then entered the nursing profession. Therefore she was away from home and has been away ever since.
So after she qualified she stayed away.
R- She stayed away. My next brother, he got a job locally and then joined the forces in 1914. You see there was only eight years between coming to Blackburn and the war starting. Well, in those eight years they were only young you see. So then he joined the forces. My next brother worked in an ironmonger’s shop, he4 joined the forces. My youngest brother was an industrial chemist and he got a job in Manchester and then joined the forces. So that we might say eventually all three were away from home.
And the brothers that joined the forces, after the war did they come back to B1ackburn?
R- Yes. We all got through with our lives. One brother was wounded, another was gassed, and two suffered from fatigue including myself. I was invalided from France with appendicitis and had an operation in London but I was left with a thrombosis. I’m very fortunate because I had a clot of blood in my lung which I coughed up and my life since then has been a bonus I always say. When I was discharged the surgeon told me that I would never have a nearer squeak in my life and I was to forget it and get back into civilian life which I have done. Right, now then, I have accounted for my sisters. My next brother took a course in schooling and he got a post at Woodhouse Grove School near Leeds. He became a housemaster but he wanted to get married and he found that with entering the profession late he was on a low scale so he resigned. He had various posts in commerce and eventually acquired a non-ferrous foundry which he ran successfully until someone wanted his business and he sold out and retired. The next brother decided to go to Australia after three years in England and he died there in 1972. My youngest brother found things difficult after the war and as I had decided to set up in practice on my own account, in 1922 I engaged him and trained him in my profession as a valuer of mills and works.
(400)(15 min)
And he remained with you did he?
R- No, he retired some years ago.
He stayed in the profession then?
R- Oh he stayed, yes. He stayed in the profession.
Well, let’s move on to more details about the actual physical details of your house, and housing at the time, or what you can remember. Which is the house you can remember best of your child hood?
R - I can remember them both extremely well. I've, if I may say so, I've got a very vivid memory of my early days.
Well. it seems so yes. You have indeed. Well, perhaps we’ll take the first one first then. Well, in Darwen first of all. Can you remember how many bedrooms that had?
(450)
R - Three and an attic.
And was the attic used as a bedroom?
R - Oh yes.
Yes, yes. And what other rooms were there? Just the usual ones or anything?
R - The front room, the dining room, the kitchen and a basement wash house. Then one bedroom had been converted into a bathroom and there was an outside toilet as was customary in those days.
Was it a water closet or a dry one?
R - Yes. Water. Well, this is a rather interesting question, because it was, but the next row of houses bad pail closets and it was in the very early days changed, but it was nothing like the convenient toilets we have today. It was rather primitive water carriage, I don't know whether you have seen them. There was a kind of an open channel drain, constantly running you see, right down the streets and of course each house had its own privy as they call them, or toilet and that's it.
Was this an open channel?
R- Well, it was a sunken, it was an underground channel, below ground channel you see? And then later on they were converted to the present system you see?
You mentioned the word pail, was it a pail closet you mentioned?
R - Yes.
What was one of those?
R- Well, before the water carriage system, which was introduced in this country possibly 1892, 1900, the excreta was collected in pails, iron pails and the toilet was at the back wall of the yard, and the night soil department as they called them, they came along, and there were two men, a horse and a tank cart, and they emptied these pails, you see. One after the other.
(20 min)
Can you remember how often?
R- I can't remember how often, but it must, I would think once a week. But I’m not sure about that. Because of the, you see they had a limited number of these men and, they'd have sufficient to attend to what was required. It wasn’t exactly a pleasant place to wait in. No you see, people today, they have no idea of the vast improvements in a single life time, you see? And they tend to judge situations by the present standard, which is not correct. Anyhow, carry on.
(550)
The house here, was it fairly similar to the house at Darwen?
R- As far as capacity yes. I think we had an extra bedroom, just a minute ... Yes we had no cellars at St Annes. Five bedrooms ... a bathroom, separate WC, front room, . dining room, kitchen, larder, wash-house.
So it was quite a bit bigger in one respect.
R- Yes, not a great lot, but it, fitted in.
In Darwen, can you remember anything about, anything special about the furniture you had there?
R - Yes. The front room furniture was supplied by my mother’s aunt and her mother, you know?
Who were living with you, yes.
R – Yes, who were living with us, you see. We had a sofa which was upholstered in horse hair. And when the, as the seat, the upholstery got worn, the sharp horse hair came through.
You didn't use the word parlour for any of your rooms, did you?
R - No. no, although parlour was a term in frequent use. But it more often referred to the front room in a cottage house.
(600)
Yes. Where people would sit in their recreation time. Yes.
R - That’s right.
Did you eat in the dining room?
R- Yes. Well, breakfast in the kitchen. Main meals in the. dining room.
It wasn't just for Sundays?
R- On account of the sizes you see, we couldn’t all get in the kitchen.
Your mother obviously did the washing in the basement.
R - Yes.
And was it a fairly common thing for people to have a separate room for washing then?
R- In a family house yes but not in the industrial cottages. But in a family house yes. and we had a maid who helped.
How did she heat the water for that?
R - With a fire.
You had a boiler or something like that?
R - We had a boiler yes.
Now you mentioned that you did have a bathroom. Now presumably that was quite rare then was it?
(25 min)
R - Yes. yes. The bathrooms came with a rise in status of the able people in industry. Put it this way. Those who had worked through the mill become foremen, managers, salesmen and the like. As salaries increased, so they sought slightly better accommodation and this led to bathrooms etcetera.
Now you said, you mentioned that you had the lavatory outside. The water closet outside and you've told me about that earlier. Did the house have piped water then?
R - Yes.
And was that common?
R - Yes. By that time, by that time, yes. But going back of course I should say. perhaps fifty years before, water was obtained from local pumps and the like you see but that was before my time.
Yes so, so in fact while you were a child you didn't see pumps or…
R - No, no.
Can you remember if the stairs at Darwen had had a carpet?
R - Yes.
And. did your neighbours and your friends, did they have carpets in the house?
R - Yes.
Can you remember what sort of floor coverings you had in the downstairs rooms?
R - Yes, a carpet in the front room and I suppose oilcloth or linoleum in the rear. If I remember rightly the middle room or dining room had a flag floor, which was fairly common in those days.
And would there be mats scattered on that?
R - Oilcloth, oilcloth or linoleum. Well, it was oilcloth, linoleum was a superior covering which was coming into use. Earlier on I said to you that about that time there was a period of refinement in the requirements you see? And, and so on. But I remember we had a carpet in the bedroom, I am trying to recall the name of it - Kidderminster. Now, a Kidderminster carpet. You know what a Kidderminster carpet is. The pattern alternates, you see? On the front, say it's black and white squares, the white square would be on the top, the black square underneath you see? But say it would happen to be, a light brown and a dark brown.
(700)
And were there carpets in the other bedrooms too?
R - No. Floor cloth. Instead of linoleum, call it floor cloth. And then that covers a variety you see? As I say, linoleum as we know it today is a far superior quality to the floor cloth of those days you see. But that was the best obtainable at the time.
So, during your childhood really it would not be uncommon for people to have carpets in their front room although it might be quite a, the status symbol perhaps.
R - Well, it's not uncommon but they weren't the quality of carpet they have today. you see? I mentioned the Kidderminster carpet, but that was a simple carpet without any, what do you call it…
Pile?
R - Without any pile you see? And there were floor coverings of a variety but they were relatively simple.
Can you remember anything about the curtains or the blinds, or whatever you had for windows?
R - Yes, they were lace curtains.
Just lace curtains?
R - Yes, with as a rule a pelmet you know?
So you didn’t have any thicker ones that you drew at night?
R - No, we had Venetian blinds. Yes, you see, you’re bringing back ... and I remember Venetian blinds are awful job to clean. and take down.
Were they similar to the ones we have today?
R- Yes, same model, except you have nylon cord today, whereas we had a cotton cord, and they wore out frequently and then the thing clattered down.
Yes, do you remember people having curtains besides lace curtains, like we have today to draw at night or would people just tend to have the lace curtains?
(750)
R - The majority would be lace curtains.
Upstairs and down?
R – Yes.
Did the women usually whiten the steps, the front steps?
R - Yes. And there was a certain amount of pride but the house I was born in was a terraced house and with a garden in front and access by steps, stone steps which was, without snobbishness, superior to the cottage house type where they were houses in rows, and where each housewife was proud to have the window cills and the stone steps stoned you see? By the way, you might be interested in this ... it's all right (Showed us a book on town life.)
Now. you were telling me about the pride people attached to whitening their steps and window bottoms. Presumably they used donkey stone did they?
R - Yes. Yes, and these were sold by men with small horses and horse and cart business, not a cart with sides, a flat top, rag and bone merchants. And they used to go round giving and exchanging these donkey stones. There were different colours - rubbing stones we called them - but there was one they called donkey brand, it was the softest stone.
[George is slightly off-target here, I don’t think he had ever donkey stoned a step. The two basic types of rubbing stone were hard and soft. Hard was lighter than soft which was almost a reddish brown colour. Donkey and Lion were two proprietary brands and they made both hard and soft.]
And presumably it was quite a skilled business knowing which was the right stone for your type of step.
R - Well we never used stones, we had no need, except for the edge of the step because ours was a terraced house with the garden in front and it was a different, different exterior. The cottages were where they used stones of that type you see principally but all houses
(800)
finished off the edge of the steps when they were clean, but they didn't necessarily always stone the whole of the step. Because there was a step and then there was a little kind of platform, and then another step to enter the house you see? They didn’t always stone the whole lot but they very often cleaned it to get that green that comes from the trees and you know, to give it an extra polish. But they didn't keep it white like they did on the cottage houses. Right.
Yes, yes. How often would they do this?
(25 min)
R - Oh, once a week.
Religiously.
R - Oh religiously.
Yes. Can you remember the first electric lighting?
R - No. I remember it generally speaking coming in but I can’t just recall the first occasion I saw it.
The house in Darwen, was that gas lit?
R - Lit by gas, yes.
Have you any vague memories of when you changed over?
R - Well you see, when we left it, it had gas, and when we went to St Annes we’d gas. We’d electric light when we came to Blackburn.
When you were 16?
R - Yes. We rented I should say in those days - and this is a very important social matter - before the first world war there were houses to let throughout the land, and consequently men with families who wanted to move, to improve their jobs or for whatever reason, they could do so with little trouble. They didn’t lay out capital except the equipping of the house they could rent, at reasonable rents. And it was only the Rent Restriction
(850)
Acts, the retention of the Rent Restriction Acts, which have made the present shortage. They have prevented the natural development of housing and no political party has had the courage to remove them. Macmillan did make an attempt for one section, and then he went out of office, and was succeeded by a Labour government. and they put the restrictions back again. And indeed, they made things far worse since they restricting rents on furnished houses and virtually everything. Now this is a challenge to democracy because it’s an injustice and where there's injustice, sooner or later attempts will be made to put things right. It’s an injustice to deprive landlords of a proper, appropriate return on their investment, and it's most unfortunate because there is a great shortage of houses because it doesn’t pay, it's not economic for anybody to build today to get a rent and yet there is money available. It goes a little further in so far as people have got used to being subsidised, which is another danger to democracy. And therefore they are not always prepared to face up to the fact of an economic price you see. They are, to a certain extent those with a certain amount of capital are able to
(900)
buy houses because of money being invested in building societies. But that’s only a palliative really, it’s not a cure. To my mind it’s a tragedy because it prevents people from finding employment in different parts of the country because they cannot get anywhere to live. That's a secondary effect with a very great importance to the national well being. And other effect, a side effect of this Rent Restriction Act is this, that with the saving in rent, tenants have been able to pay radio rentals and television rentals. Now, when the truth dawns, it will be unpalatable but until the Rent Restriction Acts are removed, and they can’t be removed at a stroke, they would have to be removed gradually. But until that day comes there will never be the number of houses available for the population. It’s a sad fact, but politicians are not prepared to face up to risking loss of votes by facing reality.
The thing that sparked you off on this was electric lighting. You were obviously going to say something about electric lighting and letting houses and renting houses. Can you remember what it was?
R - Yes. Our first electric light was in a rented house in Blackburn in 1906. And I think the house would have been converted say by about, to electricity about ten years before.
Yes.
R - Incidentally the town of Blackburn played a very big part in the development of the electrical industry. There was a very able man called
(950)
Thomas Barton who was a pioneer, with the result that people in Blackburn used electricity, yes used electricity earlier than people elsewhere. He provided telephone, private telephone systems from the country mills and works to the Manchester warehouses. And indeed the headquarters of the national telephone company were in Blackburn before they nationalised in I think 1908 or 1910 see? So that brings me, that helps me to focus the situation.
So in fact you were in a pioneering area altogether in this field weren’t you?
R - Yes. Yes I was.
SCG/22 May 2003
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