THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON THE 26th OF JANUARY 1979 AT YORK HOUSE, THE HOME OF THE INFORMANT ON LINKS ROAD, ST ANNES ON SEA. THE INFORMANT IS GEORGE FORRESTER SINGLETON, RETIRED SENIOR PARTNER IN THE FIRM OF G F SINGLETON AND COMPANY, ESTATE AGENTS, OF BLACKBURN. THE INTERVIEWER IS MARY HUNTER.
Well Mr Singleton, when I was last here we were talking about curtains and water closets and things like that, and I seem to remember that the last thing we talked about was electric lighting which was quite a new thing when you were a child. Anyway you answered that question and we move on to the next thing, which is household rubbish. Can you remember how the household rubbish was disposed of when you were a child?
R-Yes, from an ash pit.
So you had an ash pit at the back of the house?
R - Yes. It was thrown in and then shovelled out by the man who came round regularly.
Did any of them have dustbins as we have them now? Can you remember?
R - No, that was a later innovation.
And how did your mother do the washing?
(50)
R - In the cellar. We had a what is known as a copper which is a boiler and under which was a coal fire and that had to be set going, boiling the water in advance of the washing operation.
And how long would it take to boil up?
R – Oh I don’t know, possibly half an hour.
It was an all day job was it? Washday?
R - Oh it was certainly. I would say a whole morning job. And then after the clothes were washed they went through what was known as a mangle or a squeezer with wood rollers.
How often did she do the washing?
(100)
R - Well. Monday was the normal washing day. But I think that with a family the size of ours that there were other periods of washing. But it was a major, having regard to getting the boiler going it was a major operation. You couldn't just do as you can with modern appliances, switch on and off. You had to plan ahead and it all took time.
Yes. And how, you said you thought it must have taken most of the morning.
R- I am sure. And at that time the fashion was for business men to wear white linen shirts with cuffs and loose collars. And my father had a clean shirt every day which had to be ironed. And that was a big job, ironing on top of everything else. It was hard work.
(5 min)
Particularly linen.
R - Oh yes. But it was hard work yes.
How did she do the ironing?
R - Well, with a box iron.
That you put water in, hot water in?
R - No.
That you warmed on the stove?
R - You put, you had a heater, a piece of iron which you put into the fire. With the tongs you pulled it out and put into what was known as a box iron which then was heated and used for the purpose.
I had understood box irons to be heated with hot water, but you have put me right on that now.
R - We also had the irons which were heated in front of a fire.
Flat irons.
R -Flat irons, yes. But the box iron was the main one.
(150)
R- The favourite.
And presumably the secret was to get the linen shirts with just that sufficient amount of dampness still in them to get out all the creases.
R- That’s right, that's right. Whilst you were using the box iron, one heater in the box and the other was in the fire ready when one had cooled you see?
Yes, that’s right. Have you got any vivid memories about washday yourself?
R – Yes. I remember going down into the cellar as a small boy, filled with steam, water on the flag floor, it wasn’t an attractive place.
I thought you were going to say falling flat on your face because the floor was wet!
R – No, I don’t recall that. But I recall one day my eldest sister getting her fingers caught in the mangle and getting the middle finger squashed. Which was not uncommon because children got hold of a handle you know and put their hands on the rollers and they were easily taken in.
And presumably she relied on the outside weather for drying her clothes.
R - Yes with a rack in the kitchen.
Ah, yes, the old pulley rack, yes.
(200)
R - Of course I must say that for many years we had a maid to help. Otherwise it was just impossible, a family of six.
Quite.
R- Indeed an aunt lived with her for several years and she died when I was eight. So it was a full household.
How did your mother clean the house? I know it's rather an odd question but did the...
R - Well, there was a thorough spring cleaning once a year from top to bottom. And that I do remember. And then weekly there was a tidying and dusting operation.
And did the maid do that, or did your mother do that?
R – Oh, the maid did the wet work and mother did the cooking.
Was there anything you can remember your mother paid particular attention to in the cleaning operations?
(250)
R - Not particularly but she was very exacting, worked to a high standard.
So woe betide any muddy hands on walls and things
R - Well, we’d to be careful.
Did you or the rest of the family help with any of the jobs?
R - Well, are you referring to my Darwen days?
Well, yes really.
R- Yes, we left Darwen when I was nine and a half so it’s before then. Right. Well, we were all taught to help in one way or another. My job was to clean the boots. They weren't shoes in those days, they were boots. And my sisters were taught to do needlework, it was a case of all hands on deck.
(10 Min)
But your job was cleaning the boots?
R – Yes, which I disliked.
Did you? Oh dear!
R - Very much. But I had no option.
So you had what, six pairs a day to deal with did you?
R - Something like that.
Can, can you remember - and you were the eldest, weren’t you?
R - Yes.
Can you remember taking on particular jobs of responsibility in looking after the younger brothers and sisters?
(300)
R - Oh yes. I had to take them out into the park which was near by, Bold Venture Park as it was called, and the younger were in bassinettes before the days of perambulators. And then after the bassinette there was what was known as the mail cart, a lighter model, when they were getting a little older you see.
Were they sprung? Did they have any springs?
R- I can't recall the mail cart, I think there must be something, but I do know the bassinette was like a large cradle and rested on bent steel springs so there was a certain amount of spring you see. But I don’t recall springs as such. They were very useful.
Yes. So you had to take them all for a walk in the park.
R- Yes. I remember being called in one day, one morning, and I turned the corner In a hurry. and upset the bassinette with my youngest brother in.
Oh dear. And what about dressing or eating? Did you have to help there at all, or not?
(350)
R - I don't recall that. Except of course the youngest, they were sat in a tall chair. which folded up and provided a seat and a table for being pushed around on the floor you see? They were very useful, they were very useful, you have seen them.
Oh yes. I can remember something like that but I don’t think you can get them now.
R - No.
Did any of the family do any jobs for the family outside the home, like running errands or gardening or ...
R- No, not as a regular thing. I was the, being the eldest I had to do most of the errands.
(15 min)
Can you remember whether your father did any work in the house that perhaps wouldn't normally be done by the head of the house like mending or cleaning or cooking. Doing the fires?
R - No.
Looking after the children?
R - Well he took his part as far as that was concerned but, he had a busy day, and when he got home at night, you see. He got home to lunch occasionally which was called dinner in those days.
What about decorating, was that done by outside people?
R - Yes definitely.
(400)
Yes. Did your family own their own house?
R-Yes.
That's the Darwen house and the one here?
R - No, we owned the Darwen House, but the one in St Annes was rented.
Yes. Can you remember or would you know in fact how much the Darwen house cost?
R- No. No clue*
Or in fact how much rent was paid for the Lytham house? No clue?
R - No clue.
Did you ever meet the landlord? At the Lytham house?
R- Yes.
Was he a good landlord do you think?
R - I would say yes. He was an architect and his father had engaged him to build a block of five houses as an investment. You see this is how many professional men started, got a backing with the parents. And then he left then you see? Well the father would have the income from the rents, and the son would have the experience and the fees would be carrying out the work and so it went on.
Can you remember his name?
R - Wade.
Oh well done. And would that be sort of annual renting arrangement, or would it be a longer term thing?
R - Oh, I would think a three, very frequently they were, houses were let for three years. On lease for three years.
So you rather think that it might have been that.
(450)
R - But there were many on what is known as annual tenancy you see?
Did your mother do any work in the house to earn a little extra money?
R - No, She had no time.
No. Did women in the neighbourhood do that at all? Was it a general practice?
R - No, there were what you may say, help was obtained from certain women who had a little spare time or who didn't go out to work, and they used to help out - what is known as occasional help, household, domestic help. There was a certain amount of that.
What about things like child minding or taking in washing or cooking things to sell?
R – Well yes, there's always been that, shall I say local accommodation in the past. There’s not so much now because we are living in so called affluent days.
Is the house that you lived in Lytham still standing?
R - Yes.
And it’s still in its original form?
R – Yes.
Right. Well we have finished with that section for the moment and perhaps we move on to something you can remember better because it's about what you used to eat, and things that you could buy. So you might remember that. What did your mother cook on, can you remember?
(500)
R - Which house? Darwen or ... You have finished with Darwen now have you?
Well. if you can remember the Darwen days better.
R - Well you see she'd an oven at the side of the fire, the kitchen fire.
An ordinary range. Yes.
R – Yes, a range. Now ... and I believe we had a similar one at St Annes but I think later we got a gas oven.
(20 min)
Can you remember when that would be?
R- No.
No. Did she make her own bread?
R - Yes.
So that had to be fitted in regularly as well as the washing.
R – Yes, once a week, and I helped to do the kneading.
Did you? At what level? Did you get up on top of thing?
R No I got on my knees. We’d put the basin on the floor. The bread mug as it was called, put it on the floor and on my knees and kneaded.
Good for you. Andy presumably one of those lovely earthenware bowls.
R - Yes. With a cream lined finish you see, yes.
Yes I know what you mean, yes. How much did she make at each go?
R - Oh I don't know, I think it was fourteen pounds.
That was some kneading to have to do then, wasn’t it?
R - Or would it be seven pounds? Oh well, she would bake for a week. Now, I suppose we’d shift two loaves at least a day, with a family of eight, there was six children and the parents. So that’s probably
(550)
fifteen or sixteen loaves a week. Now, we’d pound loaves, that’s the finished article, now I don't know how much flour it takes to make a pound loaf. Do you?
Yes, I should do, shouldn't 1? 1 was doing some ...
R - I would think ... oh, fourteen pound, I would think I am not far wrong with fourteen.
And did she put the dough into containers or were they free standing? She made a shape, did she?
R - Oh, they went into bread tins.
They went into bread tins.
R - Oh yes. Standard size, and they were all greased before you put the dough in, and then put ..
Oh yes, yes. And then knock them on the bottom to see if they are cooked afterwards.
R - That's right.
Did she also bake cakes?
R - Yes.
What seemed to be the usual ones?
R - Barm cakes from dough, known as Barm cakes. You see, the yeast in those days was known as barm locally. [or balm] You see? So they get the name Barm cakes
And were they sort of like a scone then?
R - Well they were made from dough. The result was, they were similar to bread, but they were dainty, particularly when they were warm and nicely buttered, you see? And then she'd make tea cakes and a cake with pastry and currants, a flat ...
Eccles cake?
R- No, a large flat cake with currants and it was known as sad cake.
Oh yes.
R - Sad cake. You have heard of that before.
Yes. No chocolate cakes or anything like that?
(600)
R - Oh no, no, We didn’t, chocolate was a later development. But there were, you know, cakes from raisins and currants and occasionally a plain cake, Good stuff.
You look well enough on it anyway.
R - That's true.
And what about pies?
R – Yes. She used to make pies. Apple pies and fruit pies according to the season and mince pies at Christmas.
And presumably, were they the pies that just had the pastry crust with the, what are they called in the middle to hold the pastry up, or were they
R – Well, there were both kinds, that’s what we call the pies with the lid which had a kind of cone to get the steam up, you see.
Yes, I’ve forgotten what they are called.
R- And then there was the other, the flat one which was known as a tart.
Did she make jam and marmalade?
R- Yes.
So marmalade would be about now I suppose with the Seville oranges.
R - Yes, that's right.
Yes. And would she use preserving sugar? Do you know that? You don’t see it often now, but ...
R- I don’t know about that, the distinction between preserving sugar and ordinary sugar, I don’t know.
No. And what sorts of jams did she usually make?
(25 min)
R - Victoria Plum, Damson, Strawberry, Blackcurrant, Greengage, and so on.
Were you all brought in to help with the picking of all these things?
R- Well, occasionally, as required. My sisters of course did the more delicate works, see? I did the shoes and the errands and chopping the firewood, and that kind of thing.
Did you have a Victoria plum tree in the garden or were there…
R- No, we had to buy all the fruit.
Yes. And what about pickles? Did she make pickles?
(650)
R- No. She might have made pickled cabbage, and red cabbage occasionally but we didn't go in for that kind of thing.
And presumably not homemade wine either.
R- No, It was unthought of in those days.
Well yes. Just a few people did. Can you ever remember any of her own patented methods for curing things? And even medicines she used to make herself and what were they for?
R- Well, she made a cough medicine. And she herself believed in homeopathy. That medicine with pills you know. Belladonna, Aconite and that kind of thing. Not heard of it? It's a section of medicine which, I don't know how to put it, but it's a specialised form of medicine which is successful in some cases. Don't ask me to explain how it works.
You don’t know. Not one of these business of mind over matter.
R- No, there may have been something in it. But she believed in homeopathy for treatment on herself. On the whole we were very healthy, living a simple life on good food.
Can you remember what she made the cough mixture from? That you mentioned before.?
(700)
R- No, well treacle was one of the ingredients and honey.
Can yeti remember having rations of malt or anything like that particularly in winter months.
R- Yes, she did give us malt extract occasionally, and cod liver oil.
Which I’m sure you loved.
R - Nauseating.
Horrible, isn’t it. And things like inhalers when you had a cold, things like that, did you have to go through? Steaming.
(30 min)
R- Well we had an inhalant. There weren’t these devices on the market then as there are today, you see.
No. A big china pot. Yes.
R- We’d have a jug with, what is the stuff we put in?
Vick.
R- Oh no, Vick was a modern invention. No, Friars Balsam.
Friars Balsam yes.
R- Yes that was the inhalant that we most frequently used.
Yes. Right, what did you actually have for breakfast?
R- Porridge.
Every day of the week?
R - Yes. A little bacon bread and butter, sometimes toast, and tea as a
beverage.
And presumably the toast would be made from the open fire with a toasting fork.
R- On the fire. Open fire with a fork, that’s right.
And was that a nice job to have, to make the toast or .. a bit of a chore?
R- I don't recall making much toast myself. The introduction of toast was a later development really.
What did you have for Sunday dinner?
R - A roast, invariably. Well you see, there were eight and sometimes nine and the roast was more economical.
(750)
Quite. And was the Sunday dinner a special affair? Did you perhaps eat in a different place, or with different china?
R- Well, sometimes different china yes but we all had our meals in the dining room, because we had the meals together more or less. We were going to school you see. All at the same time.
What would you usually have for your other dinners during the week?
R- Well one day we had fish, Fridays, not as a ritual but as a variety. And stews, was it, Irish stew was one then haricot mutton was another and that kind of thing.
Presumably there wasn’t much left of the joint by the time you'd had it on Sunday.
R- No, except Monday, there was generally sufficient for Monday which was cold meat, and to me never appetizing.
You came back from school for lunch then did you? All of you?
R - Yes.
And, was tea any different, was tea time a different sort of meal?
R- Mostly jam and bread, which was good homemade bread and butter and jam as required.
And cakes and pie or not?
R- Occasionally cakes, not every time. No, not every time.
But never any meat. No.
R- Not at night, no.
And then did you have a supper time? Before bed time or not?
R- Sometimes a cup of cocoa or a drink of milk.
But nothing to eat. No.
R- Nothing to eat.
Was there a garden or an allotment attached to your house?
(800)
R- No. We had a front garden, small front garden. And the yard was paved, we had no garden at the back.
So in fact you didn’t really have any access to your own-grown produce of any kind?
R - No. No that’s right.
(35 min)
And coming back to dinner time again, did you ever have pudding?
R- Oh yes milk puddings.
Milk puddings regularly.
R- Regularly. Rice, tapioca, sago, semolina.
And it was normal to have a pudding at every meal?
R- Oh yes, a pudding yes, it was a standard part of the midday meal.
Even for example on washday or bread making day?
R- Well my recollection is it was on daily. There may have been days when it was missing, but ...
Presumably you went through quite a lot of milk in your house
R- We did.
Can you remember vaguely how much you'd get through in a day.
R- No. No.
Did you collect it from a local farm, or was it brought to you.
R- Delivered.
It was delivered. So you used milk for the puddings and your drinks at night. Any other obvious uses of the milk?
R- No.
And you have mentioned a minute or two back that you had bread and butter and jam for tea. Was it always butter?
R- Mostly, I would say. Occasionally margarine, but mostly butter.
And did you ever have things like bread and dripping from a joint?
R - Oh yes, yes we did. And bread and dripping can be very tasty.
Oh I know yes.
R- Yes we had.
Yes. From the joint presumably.
R- Yes.
Yes, but your mother didn’t make the butter, surely, did she?
R - No, Oh no.
No. Can you remember what fruits you most often ate as a child?
R- Apples.
Non stop apples.
R - And oranges. Apples and oranges were the principal fruit.
Round here you didn’t have any particular fruit growing?
(850)
R - In the summer time, of course, we had the stone fruit, plums you see and strawberries. In season, whatever was in season, we’d, mother did her best to give us a variety.
But she always had apples at home did she?
R - Oh apples yes, my father used to get a barrel at a time.
Did he?
R - Of Baldwins. Canadian Baldwins were the principal ...
Really? And what sort of apples were they?
R- Oh a nice red apple.
I have never heard of those. Can you remember what vegetables appeared most regularly on your table?
R – Potatoes, cabbage, cauliflower, peas. Yes those were the principal ones.
Now then, we are going to go through a selected list of foods now and I’d like you to tell me whether you had them every week or perhaps just once a month or very rarely, or in fact never. Okay? Bananas.
R- Occasionally.
Rabbit.
R- Yes. That would take the place of a stew. Yes.
Yes. Did your mother buy the rabbit? Sort of as it was?
R – Oh yes.
From a fruiterer or ...
R - Yes, that's right, yes.
Fried food?
R -Fried food?
Yes, well, you had bacon every morning didn’t you?
R- We had bacon, yes.
Yes. Now other fried foods like fried eggs.
R- Well yes, we’d eggs occasionally and sometimes eggs in place of bacon, you see.
And did you ever have anything like liver? Fried, or would it always be…
R - No. We had occasionally liver and kidney.
And it would be fried would it?
R- Yes.
You told me about fish, you had that pretty nearly once a week?
R- Yes.
Can you remember what sort of fish it would be?
R- Cod, Whiting, Plaice.
(40 min)
Cheese. Cooked or uncooked.
(900)
R- We had cheese occasionally and sometimes we would have cheese on toast as a rarebit, you know? As an alternative to something else. Oh yes she provided as good a variety as she could within the standard foods obtainable at the day. And then a lot of vegetables have came on the market which we never saw you see, asparagus, spinach ...
Sweet corn?
R- Sweet corny and there was another one with a purple top.
Pepper, aubergine? Purple sprouting?
R- Yes. Well those were not available you see?
No, no.
R- Costly at any rate. There may have been some but we just went for the standard goods. Oh, and occasionally we’d have lettuce in the Summer with our bread and butter in place of jam. Things like that. We lived like a lower middle class family. Plain, good, frugal in a way, that there was no waste you see.
No. Now then, what about something like cowheel, tripe, trotters or black pudding?
R- Oh yes. Cowheel and trotters were occasionally on the table as an alternative yes.
What did you think of that? Did you like it?
R- Oh yes. I liked cowheels and trotters and tripe. Yes, but I never fancied black puddings.
It's the one thing I have had out of that list. I’ve trying to persuade someone to do some tripe for me, so that it just lands on the plate. I don’t want know what’s happened to it till it gets there, to see whether I like it or not. I have never had any of the others.
R- Haven’t you? Have you had cowheel?
No.
R- In Lancashire of course there was a great import of cattle from Ireland.
Yes.
R- Into Liverpool and the abattoirs, and to other places and consequently what was known as offal was distributed you see, and large firms [dealt in it]. The population developed tremendously in the industrial era and there were shops, whole special shops who just sold these delicacies you see? Oh yes.
[There were many family firms that did nothing but boil and sell tripe, cowheel and trotters. There was one major chain of shops, United Cattle Products {UCP} who did the same thing and ran restaurants selling the cooked products. They had a large processing factory in Levenshulme, Manchester]
(950)
Was it a long operation, preparing things like cowheel?
R- They had to be boiled.
Presumably for quite a long time.
R- Yes, I would think the cowheel took longer, certainly longer than trotters and tripe.
Now you mentioned that you had eggs sometimes as a substitute for bacon.
R- Yes.
Can you remember which of the two was more expensive?
R- No.
No. I just wondered with you buying bacon perhaps more regularly than eggs whether in fact bacon was a cheaper commodity then eggs.
(45 min)
R- No, I don't think the variety depended upon price.
No.
R- It was having variety of food to satisfy our bodily needs you see.
Tomatoes.
R- Oh yes. They were fairly abundant in those days.
Were they. But presumably they would he imported.
R - Oh no. In this area, in the FyIde. It’s one of the largest tomato growing areas in the country.
But it would still be very much a seasonal thing, wouldn’t it?
R- Oh yes.
Grapefruit.
R- No.
It wasn’t in the shops.
R- It wasn’t in the shops.
And last but not least, grapefruit.
R- I didn’t have a grapefruit, my first taste of grapefruit was when 1 was married, on my honeymoon.
Really?
Yes. And that was when I was 30 or just before 30.
And was that in this country?
R- Yes, in London.
Good.
R- But I have it, now I have one, half a grapefruit every day.
Yes. Very good for you too. Only I can’t manage them without sugar.
R - Oh I can.
And what about sheep's head?
R- No.
No. No, never sampled that, Can you remember your family having any tinned food?
R - Occasionally. Tinned pears. Sunday tea time. Special treat.
Special treat.
R - Yes that's right.
And were there quite a few tinned foods around then, or not?
R - Oh no. Tinned pears were the most popular. Tinned pineapple.
SCG/24 May 2003
4,864 words.