THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON THE 26th OF JANUARY 1979 AT YORK HOUSE, THE HOME OF THE INFORMANT ON LINKS ROAD, ST ANNES ON SEA. THE INFORMANT IS GEORGE FORRESTER SINGLETON, RETIRED SENIOR PARTNER IN THE FIRM OF G F SINGLETON AND COMPANY, ESTATE AGENTS, OF BLACKBURN. THE INTERVIEWER IS MARY HUNTER.
Well a bit earlier on Mr Singleton we were talking about tinned food.
R - Yes.
And you told me that tinned pears were perhaps the most…
R- Popular…
Of the tinned food. You also mentioned that you had occasionally# as a Sunday treat, tinned pineapple. Can you remember any other tinned food that would be about then?
R - Well perhaps we might have tinned sardines. We had on occasion I remember, but there was nothing like the range of tinned foods that there are today. And I would say we rang the changes on those you see?
(50)
Yes. Did you ever have bad tinned food?
R - I don’t recall.
Yes. But your mother wasn't averse to using tinned food.
R - Oh no.
Right, you have mentioned earlier that tea and cocoa were drinks that you had at home. Did you ever drink much coffee?
R – No.
Because it was too expensive?
R - I don’t know why but it was not often. Indeed we had a bottle of Symington’s coffee essence available for use when required you see. But we were not coffee drinkers as such.
Do you think people were at the time?
R- Well, coffee was always popular with the commercial people in the cafes in Manchester and these cities and towns particularly where transactions were discussed. Coffee was the acceptable means of a beverage whilst discussing these problems.
(100)
So mid-morning you would have a cup of tea rather than a cap of coffee would you?
R - Yes.
Yes. Now tell me what memories have you got of Christmas Dinner?
R- Oh well, that was a regular thing. Turkey, plum pudding, mince tarts, cheese, lemonade, with, what do you call it, paper caps and crackers you know? A good, solid Englishman’s Christmas meal. Yes.
Did you eat cheese with the Christmas pudding, or you had it with biscuits?
R- With the biscuits.
With the biscuits yes. So that ? very little.
R - Yes, very little.
Had you any particular foods that were favourite when you were a child? Favourite foods for you?
(150)
R - Yes. I was very fond of barley puddings as a change from rice puddings.
Barley pudding?
R - Barley pudding, yes.
Made from pearl barley?
R- Yes. And I was fond of whiting. I think I remember as a small boy being ill in a cot, well having to be in a cot in my parent’s bedroom. My first nourishment was whiting and I think barley pudding, and from then on I look forward to them as, well I like them you see. I think that was the, certainly about the whiting, and I rather think with the barley pudding. But we were brought up to eat what was set before us. And
I don’t remember any trouble from objections, from any of us.
Did your mother try and give you favourite food, say on your birthday or something like that?
R - Oh well there was usually a special treat on the birthday according to what was going and probably invite one or two friends in you see?
(200)
1 always remember I was allowed my favourite meal the day before I went back to school. [boarding school]
R – Yes. Things like that, that's it.
What did you have to eat when your family was perhaps going through a bad time financially. If that applies.
R- Well, it would get down to bread and dripping, boiled potatoes, or potatoes in jackets and oatmeal porridge.
You survived though didn’t you?
R - We survived.
Did your father come home for all his meals?
R- No.
And, do you know what he ate then? What did he take to work, to eat?
(250)
R - Well you see, his business caused him to travel to various towns in Lancashire. So he started off with a good breakfast, if he got up in time. He would get a meal at midday at an hotel or a restaurant wherever he’d happen to be. But on two days a week, when he had been to Manchester, he would return with a tit-bit, whether some fish or pigeons or something special which was the habit of those days before the first world war. Businessmen taking up little tit-bits for their own consumption at home. It was a regular thing.
(10 min)
If he was based at his office, could he always get something from the town with him?
R- Oh yes.
There would be no canteen, would there?
R - Oh no. Canteens were first introduced in the first world war.
Yes. At family meal times did your father always have the same food as the rest of the family, or did he have sometimes something special?
(300)
R- Well, he had these special, because you see we had our meals before he returned from Manchester so that we were ready for our meal round about five o'clock or half past you now, whereas he would come in about half past six. So of course he invariably had his evening meal by himself.
So your mother ...
R - Or mother might have hers with him. But it depended upon the circumstances you see?
Yes. Can you over remember your mother going short of food to feed the rest of you?
R - Well I wouldn’t say that she never had anything, but we all felt the scarcity in that time of difficulty, which I mentioned you see?
Who used to do the shopping in your family?
R - Mother, and I would go with her to do the carrying and then odd journeys I would be sent, you see? Being the oldest.
How often was the shopping done?
R – Well, mostly weekly.
And then you were sent to this corner shop presumably for things during the week.
R - Well, during the week but of course there were no refrigerators in those days and we had a stone slab in the larder on which to place food we wanted to keep for the day following. Now, one of the titbits I remember was lettuces. Now lettuce leaves the day following can be very limp, but we had no option. We might have a plate over to keep the moisture in and things like that, but refrigeration has made a wonderful difference in the last fifty years.
Can you remember where the vegetables were bought?
R- Well, from a greengrocer and then put in the larder. We had a separate larder from the kitchen.
Yes. And the meat you'd have bought from the butcher.
R- Yes. Again, we had to have meat covers to keep the flies off.
Did you have a meat [safe]?
R- No.
Just the wire mesh cover.
R - The wire mesh cover.
Where did your mother buy her groceries?
R- Mostly from the grocery shop, her regular grocer’s shop. Occasionally she would buy from the Co-op which was nearer, which was near by you see.
Did she fill in an order?
R- She had no prejudice against the Co-op.
No. Did she fill in an order book for her groceries?
(15 min)
R- No. I think at one time she might have worked on that system. Because groceries were delivered by tradesmen in those days. Not all the time but occasionally.
Did your mother ever shop in the market?
R- Well, there wasn’t a market in St Annes. There was a market at Darwen and there was a market at Blackburn. And where there was a market she shopped.
Yes. For everything or ...
R- No. For variety for one thing, and in some cases price and freshness you see.
Was there any difference between prices and service and quality too between the local street corner shop and those in the town centre?
(450)
R- Yes, those in the small corner shops, the food there tended to be stale because there wasn’t the same turnover. Fresh deliveries, all right, but their roll of bacon for instance would last longer at the corner shop than at the central shop and therefore it tended to he a little bit off, stale. But that was accepted, you couldn't have helped it, if you wanted a food at that particular moment, well, that was it.
Do you think prices were higher at the corner shop?
R- Possibly. Well it was customary for corner shops to charge slightly more than central shops because there is less turn over and they save transport costs and time in going into the centre of the town. I agree that they are entitled to their increase in price you see because in those days there was no question of profiteering. Profiteers weren't known. It was the war time that started profiteering business. Scarcity of goods.
Did the shops you used, or your mother used, give credit?
R- No. Well they would have done I suppose if we had wanted it because there were people who bought on request and had the goods delivered and got credit. But mother didn’t believe in credit.
(500)
Can you remember the pawnshops doing good business when you wore young?
R- Well, there weren't any pawnshops in St Annes, there were a few in Blackburn and before the first world war they wore busy. People did tend to overspend for various reasons and they would pledge their goods until the weekend. It wasn't an economical method but it operated, and now pawnshops are virtually non existent.
(20 min)
Did your family ever use them?
R- No.
Can you remember your neighbours using them?
R- No.
It's a world you weren’t strictly familiar with at the time.
R- True.
Was there anything you ate when you were a child that is no longer obtainable?
R- I don't think so. I can’t think of anything off hand, I don’t think so.
Would you know how much housekeeping money your mother had?
R- No.
No. Now on to the first world war. Food. Can you really remember food being short during the first world war?
R- Yes, because, shortly after it had been going food was rationed and therefore each person had a card. And I remember for meat you cut a bit off your card and handed it to the butcher. In the second world war it was a different system, but in the first world war you had a piece of
(550)
paper on which was your entitlement and when that was done that was done. So you spread it over the period, you see.
You wouldn’t remember how much?
R- No, but it was very little. Oh it was very little.
Can you remember queuing for food at all, in the war?
R- Well by this time, I was 25 when the war started, 24 – 1914, yes, 24 and I was working in Manchester. So I had no occasion to do any shopping. I was out during the day and my sisters would… We wore all, all the four brothers were away in the war you see. So there were certainly shortages and no but 1 don't remember the queues like we had in the second world war. But there were definitely shortages, you were on short commons unless you were in a government factory, and then of course you had canteen meals you see?
(600)
Do you feel your family was better fed during the first world war than before?
R- During? Oh no.
No I didn’t think you would but…
R – No. We were, what shall I say, quite happy to get through you see. We had to put up with what we could get and, well we did get through.
Right, Now then. Slightly different facts now. On clothing. Can, can you remember your mother making any of the family's clothes?
R- Yes.
Children’s clothes.
(25 min)
R- Yes.
And did she have a sewing machine?
R - Yes. A hand wheel. I remember she made me a blouse, a cotton blouse when I went to higher grade school when I was eight.
You went to a higher grade school when you were eight?
R- Yes.
Did you?
R- Started the standard five. Well I had been to a private school you see? My mother’s aunt, known as Miss Sedgwick’s school, I think I told you before. And, I think I can show you some work and I’ll get it ready for next time. I have got some. And then she died in 1898 and I went to the higher grade in the latter part of 1898, Standard five. And the school had only been opened a few years before following the, they were a sequence to the formation of the School Board.
(650)
And to give a better education to those children leaving day schools which in those days were mostly church schools. Both Church of England and Nonconformist. All right?
She mended the clothes as well did she?
R - Oh yes. Darning trousers and torn shirts and those kind of things. Oh yes, there was quite a lot of sewing to do.
Now, even though you were the eldest, did you have any passed on clothes? Passed on from relations or the neighbours?
R – No. I was a pioneer. I had nobody I knew, nobody my parents knew, where I could do that you see?
No. Then you had new clothes, but presumably your brothers and sisters had passed on ones.
R -They had. Well, not my sisters because they, again, they were, no in those days they wore, we had no influx of second hand clothing. We’d no near relatives who had children the same age or similar. No, we were pioneers if you like and my brothers had to use some of the things that I had used, with a little bit of life left in them.
Can you remember where your clothes were bought from?
(700)
R- Yes, they were bought from shops in Blackburn and my mother and her aunt used to have shopping expeditions and I would go with them you see. And I remember in particular two shops in Blackburn, one was T E Briggs, and the other was Tills and another Bottomley’s and they catered for hardwearing boy’s clothes you see? Now there was come# there was some boys clothes made of corduroy. It wasn't the fashionable quality cloths as you see in the shops today, and it smelled horrible because there is glue in the size and when you get a whole bundle of boys' clothes stacked in a corner, well, I have not forgotten. I still remember the smell of the corduroy, which I never wore. They were considered outdoor garments for work people you see.
Your trousers would be flannel would they?
R- No, they were cloth, I reckon it was cloth. [worsted cloth]
What happened to the clothes as all your brothers and sisters finished with them?
R - They'd be given away.
(20 min)
To a…
R- Charity. We never sold any.
You wouldn’t know which charity?
R- Oh no. There wasn't the charity organizations then as there is now. But, occasionally one got to know of families in poor circumstances and clothes were distributed accordingly. With a certain amount of discretion because people in poverty have their pride, rightly so. And that's the way things operated.
Can you remember what you wore for school?
R - Yes. Short trousers, it depends what age but short trousers and a blouse when I was very small and the next move was to a jacket, no waistcoat, a jacket with a shirt and a collar with it you see?
Did you have a uniform at the private school you went to?
R- No.
And did you eventually go into long trousers while you were at the higher grade schoo1?
R- No.
It was always short trousers, was it?
R - Short trousers. I didn't get long trousers until I was 14.
And that was when you started work.
R- That was in St Annes. No, I started work at 16. And 1 remember getting them from a certain tailor’s shop, now closed and it was quite an event to get long trousers.
And were they specially made for you?
R- Reach me downs.
Yes. And when you wore a blouse and later on a shirt for school what was the blouse?
R- Well, it was a, if I remember rightly it was a woollen garment with a collar, like a sailor's collar. And sometimes there was a white collar over, now whether the white collar was attached, I rather think it was you see which could be washed. Something like an anti-macassar. [Macassar oil was used for hair dressing and cotton covers were placed on the backs of upholstered seats to protect the fabric]
What kind of footwear?
R- Boots.
Lace up boots?
R- Lace ups. In the early days I remember having button ups as we called them, and then lace ups.
And these were these things that you have to polish every day.
R- That’s right.
Did you have any head wear?
R- Yes, a cap, used to always wear a cap.
A flat cap?
R - Yes a flat cap.
And you would wear that for going to school?
R - Yes.
(800)
But it wasn’t expected of you. I mean that was your choice to wear was it?
R- Yes, but most boys wore caps.
Was it quite an event when you had your first cap?
R- Well no, because I always had head gear. I never remember going out without. I mean as a very small boy I had, you know, the youngster’s straw hats, baby hats, you know but I always wore a hat. So it wasn’t a sensation like long trousers, no.
What did your father wear to work?
R- A business suit.
Black?
(35 min)
R- No, a variety, blue, brown, speaking generally sober colours. Sometimes with a pattern, but there was nothing ornate, they were suitable for the occasion.
And what kind of headgear and footwear did he wear?
R - Oh he wore a pot hat, that is a bowler hat. Except on Sundays when he had a frock coat, linen collar, white shirt, waistcoat, striped trousers and - I wonder what we called that style of silk hat. That, that's the chimney pot, you know they the silk hat. Oh yes that was a regular headgear of business and professional men until the first, until 1914. Oh yes that was the done thing, Sunday or special occasions the top hat and the frock coat.
(850)
Yes. What a sight. And what did he have for footwear?
R - Well he had mostly boots. Shoes came in, became fashionable, after the first world war. For one thing there was economy in leather and I think that had something to do with the change over.
The first world war brought about a vast lot of change didn’t it?
R - Oh yes it did.
Can you remember what your mother wore when she was doing the housework at home?
R - Well she wore a dress, buttoned up, serviceable kind of garment. And for certain occupations she wore an apron, but she had no special uniform but that was the custom of that day you see. Right?
And she wouldn’t change that to go shopping would she?
R – No. No because she would put on a coat which I suppose would be - what do you call it - a half coat, down to the knees, something like that. Ladies coats mostly were that length.
Do you know anything about some ladies who wore an apron in the house and when they went out shopping instead of taking it off they would…
R- Roll it up.
Or pick up one corner and tuck it in the top, nothing about that?
R- Yes I have seen it done but no, most ladies, irrespective of status would take off their apron on going outdoors. If they were just going round the corner, a few doors from where they lived, they might have done that but I do know it was a habit to roll up the apron in the belt so to speak.
Would your mother put a hat on to go out shopping?
(900)
R- Yes, definitely.
What sort of a hat would it be?
R- Oh well, the type of hat of the period. You see the ladies headgear is subject to fashion. Usually they had some feathers in their hats in those days, mostly straw and dark dye you know? The prevailing colour scheme for women was dark, you see originally women wore black, and indeed if you go in the country, southern Ireland today, black is the standard colour now. As things developed there was a demand for a little variation, and so it worked up you see? But there was nothing like the choice you have today, both in material and variety.
There would be no sort of knitted hats or felt?
R- Well yes. I would may there’d be some felt hats occasionally but I don't recall any knitted hats.
Can you remember your father mending the family's shoes?
R- No.
He would send them to a cobbler?
R- No it wasn't his line. No we sent them to the cobbler.
Do you think he would have done had he been used to that sort of thing?
R- Well, for one thing he was away from home. He’d be down at the office at half past eight, and he’d be back at half past six. Well that’s a ten hour day isn’t it. So that it didn’t leave him very much time and then he was a useful member of the church and he was appointed secretary of this organisation and that organisation and so that his evenings spare, many of his spare evenings were taken up on church work.
(950)
How many outfits did you have at any one time?
R- Me? Two, one for day work, one for Sunday. One for week day and one for Sunday. Yes, that’s right, and then the Sunday one was demoted you see for week day and you got another one for Sunday.
And can, would you know how long any of these outfits lasted?
R- Oh well. It depended upon the rate of growth ...
Well I was going to say that.
R- For one thing. I don’t think I wore out many. I think they were mostly passed on.
How often did you have clean clothes?
R- Oh regular it were, the underclothes were washed every week. Oh that was a regular thing and the bed linen was washed every week.
Was it?
R- Well, at regular intervals. She’d probably do one bed or two beds in one week and two beds the next week or something like that you see.
That would be a big wash then, wouldn’t it?
R- Oh yes. It was.
Were any of your clothes made by a dressmaker or tailor?
R – No. Not until my late teens.
When you had a suit, perhaps?
R – Yes.
Were you sewn in for the winter?
R - No never.
Do you know anyone who was?
R – No. Now, as I have already said, in the early days not many houses had baths you see. And what they had was a tin bath which they put on the hearth, and then put hot water in from the fire, from the kettle, you see? And very often the fireplace, they had a tank where water was being warmed by the fire, and it was ready to be ladled out you see at a certain temperature.
(l000)
Did your mother belong to a savings club for clothing or boots or shoes?
R – No.
Would you know what sort of clothing your father’s foreman wore?
R – No. Well, at one period he’d only a book-keeper and one man, you see so I should know what they wore but no that wouldn’t lead you anywhere really.
(45 min)
No well, it's the reverse question normally. I’d be asking what the foreman as opposed to his boss would wear you see.
R - Yes of course, of course yes.
How did clothes change after the first world war?
R - Well in the first two or three years the quality was poor, gradually improved.
You mentioned a bit back I think, one or two styles you mentioned changed after the first world war, didn't you?
R - Do you mean men's wear?
Oh yes. I can’t remember exactly what it was now.
SCG/29 May 2003
4,180 words.