THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON THE 9th OF FEBRUARY 1979 AT YORK HOUSE, THE HOME OF THE INFORMANT ON LINKS ROAD, ST ANNES ON SEA. THE INFORMANT IS GEORGE FORRESTER SINGLETON, RETIRED SENIOR PARTNER IN THE FIRM OF G F SINGLETON AND COMPANY, ESTATE AGENTS, OF BLACKBURN. THE INTERVIEWER IS STANLEY GRAHAM.
Now then, what I want to do this week Mr Singleton is take you back and find out one or two things. We’ll get away from the structured interview this week from the list of questions. Now the first thing I’d like to ask you is about your recollections of the Boer War, or the African War as you’d call it. What can you remember about the years before the Boer war, what caused it and the events of the Boer war. Now, there is a nice big question for you.
(50)
R- That's true . Well, I was ten when the Boer war started, ten years of age. And, my early recollections were due to collecting cigarette cards because Ogden’s, and Wills’, and Player’s of those days were in very keen competition, and we had coloured cards of generals and, on the back we had details of their careers, you see? Well now, that brought us vividly into the, what was going on from conversations at home and reading the papers. And I was an early reader of the Manchester Guardian and remember the line drawings then of the battle formations and the references to what was going on - Spion Kop Ladysmith, Mafeking and the rest, you see. And, I can remember the names; Sir Redvers Buller who was at Ladysmith, Sir Robert Baden-Powell at Mafeking, and then the leader of the campaign I believe was Lord Roberts and his aide-de-camp was Kitchener you see? Well now, after the war I remember there was a camp at Squire’s Gate, Blackpool and it was announced that Lord Roberts and Lord Kitchener would attend and I walked over from St Annes and I remember them entering the field on horseback. Crossing, seen Kitchener; well of course, they were the bright lights of that campaign. I remember the excitement that took place, following the various - I was going to say defeats - it wasn't a walk through, a walk over by any means. And
(5 min)
my impression is that the government of the day thought it was an easy, it would be an easy matter to win the battle. But the Boers adopted what we would now call guerrilla tactics and they pipped our soldiers off in all kinds of unlikely places and so on you see. So we had a very difficult time and there was great concern about the siege of Ladysmith, which was, to a large
(150)
extent made famous to school boys by Winston Churchill who was only a journalist and he escaped by climbing the wall of this, of the town, and waiting until the sentry had gone past before dropping over and making his escape. Well, that filled the headlines and, as it happens Winston Churchill’s birthday was on the same day as mine, the thirtieth of November, he was fifteen years older than I was so he was twenty-five at that time you see. He was a society man, his father of course had been a member of the government, Lord Randolph Churchill, and the headlines in the papers were full of this marvellous escape, and I had an interest in his career ever since. Well, to revert ...
(200)
If we could, if I could just make a suggestion, could we go back to before the war. For instance, in the run up to the war, do you, can you remember anything about Lloyd George and the pro-Boers?
R- Oh yes. Now Lloyd George was unique, he was of what you would call the left wing of the Liberal party. He was a very gifted speaker and early developed an insight into political affairs. He was brought up in a non-conformist religious atmosphere and he clearly
(250)
sensed that this war was a war of aggression and he came to the conclusion that we were wrong in attacking the Boers as we did. And I think the two other men that provoked the war, one was Cecil Rhodes who founded Rhodesia and the other was Joseph Chamberlain. However, the war came and whilst we won by force of arms it wasn't long before the Liberal Government under Sir Campbell Bannerman decided to virtually hand back South Africa to the control of the Boers on the understanding that animosities would be forgotten and that those who lived in South Africa would make a fresh start. That's my recollection of the situation.
(10 min)(300)
Yes. When you say that the two people that you consider to have been leading lights in starting the Boer war were Cecil. Rhodes and Joe Chamberlain, what do you think were the motives that drove them?
R- Well, as far as Cecil Rhodes was concerned I would say control over the area for the benefit of the natural resources, diamonds, gold and the like and as far as Joe Chamberlain was concerned, my recollection is that he was accused of Jingoism which was a favourite word in those days which was if you like - boosting the British interests.
Yes. There was a rhyme wasn't there, ‘We don't want to fight, but by Jingo if we do, we have got the ships, we have got the men, and we have got the money too.’
R- Yes. Well that was it. We had the power and we had been successful and indeed we had contributed a lot to the welfare of the world at that time, because, in view of the control of the seas by our Navy, there was a period known as Pax Britannica you see? Of course, looking back, it would
(350)
appear to have been a mistake but it's very difficult to say because there is a streak in the Boers which is not compatible to human freedom which must have existed before 1900 and probably had been a contributory factor to the difficulties which Rhodes and Chamberlain were faced with you see? And of course we see now, eighty years after, the effects of this policy which is one of the great problems before the human race at the moment. A wonderful country, delightful climate, so I am told - with possibly one of the best in the world for living and with natural resources unrivalled and yet this policy of apartheid is casting a blight over that part of Africa.
(400)
What were your own sympathies at that time? Would you say that you sympathised with the, let's call Rhodes and Chamberlain, let's call them the imperialistic point of view, or Lloyd George and the pro-Boers?
R- Well, my father was an active Liberal and naturally my inclinations were as his and Lloyd George was held in great regard by the Liberal Party.
(15 min)
And whilst I wouldn’t say the family took an active part as pro-Boers, I would say my father had a lot of sympathy with them. But of course communications then were quite different to what communications are now and we’d not the same information before us. But in the event, I think Lloyd George was right in calling the attention of the nation to the, well, how shall we call it, to the wrong done to the people on the spot.
What, in your understanding then, apart from the political attitudes, what in your understanding were the actual events which led up to the start of the war. When I say events, you know, the actual reasons why. What pushed Britain over the edge? I mean I haven't to prompt you I know, but I’m thinking obviously of things like the arguments over the franchise in South Africa and things like that. But what were the reasons as you understood them at the time? And perhaps even more important, what were the reasons that the Government at the time were putting forward for going to war? Because I think, well I'm sure that you are intelligent enough to realise that there could be a difference between those two things, between what the actual reasons were and what the reasons were which were put forward to the public.
R- Well, I was nine when the war started and twelve when it was over, so that my political inclinations were by instinct and family opinion rather than my own. I don’t recollect any run up to the situation, I simply remember the fact that the war had started. Of course, at that period, Britain had developed its Empire, and it played a wonderful influence throughout the world, but we did, as a nation, tend to be possessive, and of course this led to jealousy and envy on the part of other nations. But in the event I think history will show that in spite of our mistakes we were the best colonisers that's ever appeared on this earth. Latterly of course, again, self interest and greed keeps cropping up, which is largely the result of individuals on the spot. It may not be normal policy but these things develop and then trouble starts.
(20 min)(500)
You are asking me how it started. Well, we had been successful all through the peace, all through the years and I remember at the school to which I went we had a retired captain, regular army captain, who'd been through Aldershot and knew the ropes. And he used to tell us a lot about what was going on you see, which, coupled with the cigarette cards information you see and made it rather vivid to we schoolboys. Well, we had - we, that is the British - had had several campaigns. There was one in Afghanistan, that was before my time, and I remember references to the Khyber Pass. And then I think we had something in Bechuanaland and so on. And we assumed that we should always be successful, that we were - shall we say - running the world almost by Divine Right at that period. And the nation was wealthy because we had been pioneers in the industrial era and as such, we had acquired a lot of wealth by supplying goods which the world wanted before the development of competition. Now of course by the turn of the century we were feeling the effect of competition. America, Germany, in particular. But it was rather, the war was rather a salutary lesson to us and it rather hurt our pride. Now then of course that would lead me on to the next war which I know more about but ...
Yes. We'll come on to that, we’ll come on to that. I'm very interested in something that you were just beginning to talk about there, but we'll keep in chronological order. While the war was progressing, you have already mentioned the fact that the Boers used grossly unfair tactics in that hey didn’t stand there in the middle of the plain and wait to be shot.
R - Exactly.
They tended to hide behind hills, shoot somebody and then run off. And this was a big lesson for the British Army of course.
R - By the way, yes, and there were two men in particular for the Boers who excelled as generals: one was Jan Smuts and the other was Louis Botha. And they didn't half give us a pasting. No, we suffered from wounded pride at the end of the war.
(600)
That’s it, yes. Well, I was talking to a man who actually fought in the Boer war, and he said that looking back it really was ridiculous. He said we went out there and actually, I remember he said - that the army was still fighting in red coats.
R - Yes.
And he said that we stood in the middle of the plain in squares, like we did at Waterloo!
R – Yes. Oh yes, unfortunately our military leaders, they had not developed at the same pace as industry and other walks of life. Bear in mind the defence forces were the choice, sometimes the second choice of well educated people who if they did not follow in their parents, did not follow their parents in charge of the estates, they entered the services, defence services or the Church. Now to a certain extent that was understandable in view of the education system of the day, but as a nation we had been so successful that I think it got to our heads and those in the services had really a good time. They were called upon to look after our interests all over the world at key positions. Bahamas, Bermuda, Gibraltar, Aden, India, etcetera and they tended to enjoy themselves rather than get down to serious matters of war strategy, because it was never expected. The 1914 war came as a surprise to the majority.
(650)
So would you say that, during the early stages of the Boer war, you have already said it was a blow to our pride, do you think that in some ways it was, it should have been a lesson to our military tacticians. It should have made them start thinking that there were other sorts of warfare than the ones which had prevailed on the big battlefields of the 18th century, of the 19th century rather. As I say this Billy Brooks, he said in fact that the Boers called us Rednecks. He said that was the nickname for the English troops. One of the things that happened during the Boer war of course was the fact that - and I realise that this is something that a lot of people don't like to admit - but we actually did invent the concentration camps. They were, I think it was either Campbell Bannerman or Lloyd George that described them at that time as methods of barbarism. Would you say that people in this country realized at the time just what was being done there. I’m not thinking in terms of shock horror stories about cruelty or anything like that but the principles that were being used. The fact that it was thought to be quite right to take people from a certain area, men, women and children and concentrate them behind barbed wire in one place. Do you think that it was fully realised in this country just what sort of principles were being, well, abused would be a good thing to say?
(700)
R - No, the people didn’t know speaking generally. And what is more, they didn’t give credit to the natives for having any intelligence. Now this was highly understandable, because we’d not much information in any event, but there were two sources of feed-back of information to the country and one was from the missionary societies of which there were several and which did considerable pioneering work in their simple way. And the other was the early traders. Now, trade with India was largely done by general government licence I think. Any large undertaking had to receive a government sanction, but there was still a great amount of freedom in which to carry out the business. Then the producers of cloth and wallpaper and other goods began to spread their wings and developed what we now call overseas trade and we used to get a certain amount of information from the individuals who returned home. But you must remember the telephone was still in its infancy, so was the telegraph and communication was relatively slow.
(750)
And so we didn't get, the general population didn't get to know. Of course, a point to have in mind is that the population in 1889 when I was born was less than twenty millions and today I think it's fifty seven millions. Well now, the very size of the increase is astonishing, it only came to my knowledge by coming across an old book, and when I realized that there are virtually three times the number of people now living in this country than when I was born it makes you think of the consequences which follow. But the rapid and tremendous development in what you might call instant communication now, as compared with communication services of those days is just almost beyond comprehension. Yes.
That’s a very important thing that I want to come on to later on. Now I’m going to make an assumption now that you had an attitude to imperialism before the Boer war whether it had been learnt at school or from your parents or anything like that. Now speaking personally, I’m not talking about the country just for the moment, would you say that the Boer war and what you saw of the conduct of the war and the results made any difference to your attitude towards imperialism?
R- Oh yes. It had an effect because I was brought up to believe in justice, and justice for the individual irrespective of his colour of skin. And consequently the jingoists and the imperialists and such like were not looked on favourably by myself, and we thought there were adopted rather dangerous policies, and that has remained with me all the time.
(800)
I think that the idea of justice is being weakened over the present century and there were many side effects accordingly but that's another subject.
(35 min)
Yes. I quite agree with you but as you say, that’s a far [bigger story] that’s really outside the scope of today's conversation. Now speaking generally about the country, would you say that - the same question - would you say that the Boer war had any effect on attitudes towards imperialism in the country as a whole. Did it start to make people think about things like imperialism and colonialism and foreign expansion?
R- I would say yes, it had a salutary effect and by this time I would think the opinion of the nation was that we had enough on our hands and that there was no need to have ambitions to acquire any more possessions as we called them. Just then, hovering on the horizon was the effect of competitive nations which I have already mentioned, America and Germany, and consequently our attention was turned to our own development and to a certain extent, the preservation of the status quo. And also within the country was a conscious development of welfare. The turning point was in the election of the Liberal government in 1906. Now, do you want me to go on there or what?
We’ll just go on to that.
R- Because, because there is a sequence you see?
That's it. Yes there is, you are quite right.
R- You see, to understand the development of the way things have gone, it is necessary to understand the conditions of the time and this is what you are trying to get at.
That's it, you are quite right. Now during the period of the end of the 19th century and possibly moving into the beginning of the 20th century, forget about the Boer war and the First World Wary just for the moment and imperialism. How about movements for tariff reform and the argument between the free traders and the people who wanted tariff barriers to protect this country against foreign competition, what do you remember about them?
R- Well, free trade and tariff reform was the great bone of contention between the Tories and Liberals of my early days. Now to understand the situation I think you should go back a hundred years or so because the landed proprietors of this country based on London lost their power by the enterprise of industry, of the industrial north. and there arose great rivalry between these two, not only lines of thought but habits if you like.
(40 min)
The Southerners, and bear in mind you must have in mind that at that time more so than now there were the effects of history and different invasions. Now Lancashire and Yorkshire, where the great industrial
(900)
development took place largely, although you can’t omit Birmingham and other places, but primarily the inspiration came from the north, and the inventiveness of those people on consumer goods and the machines for making consumer
goods, coupled with the development of steam. Now, the people in the South, a line drawn from the, at an angle from the Humber to the Severn, in one sense splits the nation in two and you will always get a different approach to the subject from the Southern people from the approach from the North. That*s inherent. When the old regime shall we call it, lost their power to the industrialists of the North it created many problems. Agriculture for instance and so on. And naturally nobody likes to lose their authority or trade, so the agricultural interests got together for protection. Now the industrialists wanted free trade, not only in this country but abroad and therefore to get paid for their goods they wanted the products of those countries to where they sent their goods with the result that we got cheap imports of food. Now I would think, if I may put in a word here, that the extreme free traders and the extreme conservatives were both wrong because it affected the, shall we say, the rights of certain individuals and it upset the rhythm of life to an unprecedented degree.
(950)
Not only that, the cheap food came in and was consumed without the understanding of its effects. Now in the simple agricultural life people generally were healthy and were limited to wholesome food. Now, with the introduction of food from all over the world we developed fancy tastes and other things
(45 min)
and that’s had an effect on nutritional value, that’s as a side effect of the struggle. But the struggle was on and it was intense and Joe Chamberlain, who had been a Liberal, then a Liberal Unionist, became a member of the Tory Party and he advocated tariff reforms and talked about the German Zollverein system. As a matter of fact ...
(975)
SCG/04 June 2003
3,730 words.
[SG note. Anyone who has read other transcripts will have noted that these interviews with George Singleton have a very low word count. The reason for this is that George was a very deliberate man, if you asked him a question he would sit and think about it, formulate his answer and then deliver it. Once spoken, that was it, the definitive answer as far as he was concerned.]