THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON THE 16th OF FEBRUARY 1979 AT YORK HOUSE, THE HOME OF THE INFORMANT ON LINKS ROAD, ST ANNES ON SEA. THE INFORMANT IS GEORGE FORRESTER SINGLETON, RETIRED SENIOR PARTNER IN THE FIRM OF G F SINGLETON AND COMPANY, ESTATE AGENTS, OF BLACKBURN. THE INTERVIEWER IS MARY HUNTER.
R - The star card marker stamped your square in the register and then at the end of the year you were awarded a prize according to the minimum number of attendances you see? Now, many a prominent figure in the business world had started his career as a star card marker in the Sunday school. In fact in the train going to Manchester, men of varying ages you know, friendly. And one would say “Well of course he was a star card marker” as a kind of pleasing tribute to the past, you see?
Yes, I see.
R – Yes. Well, it’s the first rung of the ladder of service in a Sunday School, you see?
Yes. And would it be an adult or would it be one of the older boys?
R - Oh no. A boy, a junior, whoever was available you see. He would be appointed, he would be appointed officially, “Star card marker John Smith.”
(50)
And the prizes you got, were they books usually?
R - Books, oh yes.
With the sticker inside to say which Sunday School it was?
R - That's right.
Yes. Awarded to, and they filled in with your name. Yes. We’re talking about the social events connected with the Church or the Chapel. We mentioned class distinction before, would you say that the Church unified everybody in that sense?
R - Well, I will say thing there was no class distinction in the Church as such, but Church members as a rule were, by virtue of conduct and occupations, were able to dress themselves relatively well which in itself
(100)
marked a difference between [them and] many of the non Church goers who were indifferent to religion you see? It was as a self sorting arrangement rather than a deliberate class distinction.
So if I was to say to you what sort of people would you say went to the Chapel? Would you to able to give me an answer?
R - Well all kinds. There was no embargo, in fact most of the churches, on the notice boards or advertisements finished off with the expression ‘Everybody welcome’ you see?
And do you find, can you remember at that time that we are talking about every class of people would be a Nonconformist? What I am saying is that it didn't tend to direct itself to one sector of society being Non-conformist, or Methodist or whatever.
(5 min)
R - No but speaking generally the Non-conformists had greater freedom in their method of worship and generally led in enterprise but by no means
(150)
was that confined to one particular sect. In fact there was action and reaction with one denomination or another as improvements took place in the development of society.
Yes, yes. Can you recollect any occasions where in fact the group didn’t mix very well? Perhaps even some may have seemed rather stand-offish to you as a youngster?
R - Well not as a group, but there were always certain individuals who developed superior airs, but that applies to society as a whole and not just to church.
Yes. No no. Yes. Can you ever remember going away for a holiday when you were young?
R - Yes.
Can you remember where you went?
R - Yes. One of my first holidays was to Blackpool.
From Darwen or from here?
R- From Darwen.
From Darwen.
(200)
R- And, I suppose I should be about five but what impressed me was that the blinds had stripes in them as compared with the plain blinds at home.
These would be Venetian blinds, would they or roller blinds?
R – No, cloth blinds.
Roller blinds yes?
R - Roller blinds yes. And I still remember I thought “Oh how nice!” you see? And also I remember that the son of the people we were staying with was building a boat in the back yard.
Really?
R - Yes I remember that.
So in fact, did you go into lodgings or were they friends?
R - In rooms, yes, rooms yes.
Rooms yes. And did the whole family go?
R – Yes, what there were. Yes, there were only three of us then.
Well yes, you weren't complete, as I say you weren't complete then were you?
R - We weren’t complete. That’s right.
And did you tend to have fairly regular holidays?
R – Yes. After that we went to Colwyn Bay on several occasions. And I remember we had our group photographs taken then.
Would you go by train to these places?
R - Oh yes. And my father’d try to get as many children on one half ticket as possible.
Yes. Enterprise, anyway. Yes. And, when you came to Lytham, oh sorry, St Annes presumably the need to go away for a seaside holiday was rather pre-empted.
(250)
R – That’s right, yes.
Andy can you remember sort of having long summer holidays on the beach here?
R - Oh yes. But then as we were getting older and as individuals, we took holidays visiting relatives and friends as distinct from family holidays you see? Yes, I think that was the end of family holidays, coming to a holidays town, seaside resort, you see?
And what did your parents think of you each going off individually on holidays?
R- Oh I would say they encouraged it, as the occasion arose.
Even the girls?
R – Yes. Oh yes. Well, as girls they were going to relatives you see? If not, or friends, it’s not as if they were seeking adventure in unknown areas. They were going to friends so they, our parents knew they'd be taken care of.
Would you say that during the time you were a child and, and had these family holidays, that the practise of having a seaside summer holiday was quite well established?
(300)
R - Oh yes it was.
Yes because it came didn't it, with the ...
R - Development of the railways.
Develop, railways yes. Which, I suppose by then you could say it was, oh, about seventy years on. Well perhaps not as many as that, perhaps sixty?
R - From the establishment of railways? Yes, that's about right.
And besides the actual annual holiday where you stayed away, can you recollect any day outings or trips or visits to places of interest?
R - Well nothing special. No 1 don't. Speaking generally we were quite happy to play about. But, I remember having the liberty to go to Blackpool if there was anything special, for instance a cricket match. I once saw the famous J L Jessop.
Did you?
R - Scored 26 in one over. Because Jessop was a mighty hitter in those days. At Blackpool that was.
(350)
Yes, did, did you have? ... Yes. Did you have any family means of transport?
R - No.
Nothing at all?
R - No.
No. It always had to be on shank’s pony.
R- That’s right.
Can you ever recollect having a…
R- I remember the first motorcar that came to St Annes to ply for hire, it was a small open tourer and he could, the chauffeur could carry three passengers and he charged half a crown each for the trip around the area.
(15 min)
It was, it was supposed to be a scenic ride, was it? Yes.
R - Yes that’s right yes. That was the first car in St Annes for public hire. It only operated for a few weeks and then vanished but it was something special.
How old would you be? Can you put a date on it?
R - 1903 or 4.
Yes. Golly. Can you, did you ever just go out with your father?
R - Occasionally. Yes he made a point of taking me to anything special. For instance, when I was 11 he took me to Preston to hear Joseph Chamberlain. I think I have already referred to that, haven't I?
(400)
Not on tape I don’t think. Did you?
R - Oh, yes well I may have referred to it with ...
Stanley,
R - With Stanley.
Probably.
R - I think I have.
That would be a big outing, wouldn't it?
R - It was, yes it was. Very impressive.
Can you remember it?
R- Oh yes.
Can you really?
R- Yes. And my father was an active liberal and Joe Chamberlain was a Liberal Unionist who had joined the Conservative Party and I was evidently as a small boy enthused by what Chamberlain had said and I remember my father pretending to chide me for being a Conservative.
Lovely. Were your family connected with the Temperance Movement?
R – Yes. We were encouraged to attend the Band of Hope meetings.
What were you told about the evils of drink?
R - Well we were, it was pointed out to us that it didn’t do any good, rather the reverse. Had an effect on the health of people. I remember when I was nine, attending a lecture at the Darwen
(450)
Higher Grade School, presumably given by a representative of the Lancashire and Cheshire Band of Hope Union who made a point of sending speakers to schools. Then, all the Bands of Hope, we had lantern slides of the evils you see? Oh yes.
Did you? And would these be special sessions for children or did you all just go along?
R – Yes, they were, they were mostly for children you see? Yes.
Yes. Do you ever remember seeing women going into pubs?
(20 min)
R – Yes. Well, there was no distinction, once they, if their habits, there was no distinction between the sexes. If the habit was to attend the public houses, the men or the women, they just went. And, it was accepted in society, that was it.
It was accepted?
R – Oh yes. They weren’t, what shall I say, they were looked upon as mistaken people by those in the Temperance Movement and that’s it.
Do you know of any families ruined by, or more members drinking in your locality?
(500)
R – No, I didn’t at the time, no.
Presumably it would have, I would think it was quite one of those things that would escape children to a certain extent I think.
R- Yes. Oh yes. Yes it did. You see, as it happens my parents selected their residences in pleasant surrounding and consequently we were away from, shall we say the poor quarters of any of the towns. And these things weren’t brought to our notice, you see they were, they simply, as far as we were concerned they didn't exist.
No. Yes. Would you know if in your, in your local pub, certain rooms were set aside for certain people?
R - I wouldn't know because I never went in.
Perhaps you might remember street performers or sellers who entertained passers by.
R- Oh yes. Now then, with the men came round with the, they called them organ grinders, they had hurdy-gurdies which rested on a wooden leg. Later on there was the piano which was put on a trolley for travelling purposes, and music was obtained by turning a handle. I suppose there’d be
(550)
a tape inside which would strike the chord. And for a period before the first world war they were regular contributors to the outside entertainment. Then now and again we’d men with bears who'd come round.
And these would be performing bears would they?
R- Oh yes. They'd just roly-poly you know, and rolled. They rolled over a time or two, and the bears were, they had a ring in their nostrils so that they were under the control of the man looking after them.
Any monkeys?
R - Ye. I was going to say. Occasionally we would have the hurdy gurdy in particular. My recollection is they were mostly Italians and they would have monkeys tethered to the instrument you see and dressed
(25 min)
with little coloured jackets and things. And that’s entertainment. That was the question was it? Entertainment?
Yes, street performances, street performers or sellers.
R - Or what?
Sellers. People who sold things.
R - Oh yes. Well there were fairly regular people who came round selling buttons and pins with a basket over their shoulders you see. Then we had the people who brought onions from Brittany.
Really?
R- Oh yes, that was a regular trade.
All the way into this side of the country?
R – Yes. Oh yes.
Good heavens. On a yoke? In bunches?
R- Well I believe, I learned since that their ships brought them over to a convenient port in the South, and they housed the onions in a warehouse and then the family who grew these onions, the male members, would spread out over the country with bicycles, or they'd go on a train and take so many strings of onions, and when they'd sold up they would return to another supply until they'd sold all the stock.
(600)
Really?
R - And that went on until a few years ago in St Annes.
Really?
R- Yes. When we came to St Annes there were fairly regular onion sellers visited the town.
What time about? October, September, October?
R- The end of the year, that's right, yes.
Yes. And did they, did they have the yoke over their shoulders as you see in the pictures?
R - Yes. but ..
With the…
R – But more often than not they would be the, on the bicycle you see, they put them on the handlebars of the bicycle.
They would put, yes, I see, yes. And did any of these street sellers have a sort of patter that went with their selling that entertained you?
R - Oh yes, the different cries you mean, of different vendors. What else would there be ?
I think some of them had a sort of, a bit of entertainment that was their means of gathering their possible …
R- Oh yes. Well, we had the rag and bone men as we called them, and they provided children with balloons in exchange for whatever the parents…
Contributed?
R - Would give them. And sometimes they had those little windmills that children have.
Oh yes, that you could, they’re associated with seaside resorts. Yes.
R – That’s right. And, something like that to attract people. Then of course before the first world war we had a Bellman in St Annes and I
(650)
think we had a Bell-man in Darwen who would be engaged to announce the date of a performance or of an event you see? And he would go round to a street corner, ring his bell, make the announcement, and walk on to the next street corner and repeat. That was one means of advertising you see?
Yes. And would he have a special uniform?
(30 min)
R- No, just ordinary civilian clothes.
And the ‘Hear ye, hear ye’ bit? Or would, not even that?
R - Oh no, they were, no they were as a rule… But I remember one Bell-man criticising another by saying, for opportunity he called it tuniopperty. Now whether that was as a trick to attract attention or else I don’t know but…
Can, you mentioned the street performers and, and the sellers who entertained you. Can you remember if they were, they were more frequent visitors in St Annes than they were in Darwen? I'm just wondering if there were more because it was a resort.
R- I should think there’d be more in Darwen because of the size of population you see? And more people to attract their attention.
But, this was a resort then as well, to….
R - Oh yes They came, it was as a general pattern of earning your living by street entertaining.
Now you mentioned earlier that you either belonged to the Band of Hope or certainly attended their meetings fairly regularly and obviously the Sunday School as well. Were you a member of any other club or society before you left school? Like the Scouts or friendly society or church choir, or...
R - The Scouts hadn’t been formed when I left school.
No they hadn’t had they, that's true. That, that was a slip up.
(700)
R- No, there was nothing in St Annes.
Now you've grown up, presumably you formed opinions of what Darwen and St Annes was like to live in. Can you ever remember having any thoughts then? I think one tends not to think of the place you are living in and form opinions about it. But can you ever remember .. well perhaps you compared St Annes and Darwen. When you moved to St Annes you might have compared the two places as a youngster in the sort of different things the places offered to you.
R – Well of course we simply came to St Annes for the health of my mother. So that was it you see? I think in the event the family got the benefit, both from the health point of view and from educational facilities.
You didn’t feel at all out of place coming here?
R - Oh no, we simply accepted the fact, and that was it.
Got on with making new friends. Yes.
R- Oh yes.
Do you remember going to a wedding when you were young?
R - When I was young? Yes.
Can you tell me any details about it, clothes, or any changes perhaps in the getting to the Church routine or what happened afterwards or the meal or anything that was different to the form that we tend to tend to follow now.
R- No, I remember my mother's half sister being married from our house at Darwen before we left, about ten months before we left, and they were married at the Holy Trinity Parish Church, she was an Anglican. But I don't recollect any details. It would be a quiet wedding because her husband came from Middlesbrough, so they had not many guests. There were simply family guests on that occasion.
You think, you think perhaps much of the proceedings were as they are now?
R - I would say so, yes.
Yes. Something that’s just coming to my head now, can you remember anyone getting married without going to church?
(35 min)
I mean, like we have registry office weddings today.
R- Well I don’t know of any but the Registry Office wedding was occasionally used before the war but not many. They were mostly connected with, marriages were held at churches.
What was the feeling of Registry Office weddings?
R - Well, I thought that they, they missed something, as it were. They missed the atmosphere of the Church, they missed the benefit of the marriage service. And, well, we church goers looked upon the registry wedding as a very poor effort.
And at the other extreme can you recollect any details of funerals when you were young?
R – Yes. They were very solemn affairs, invariably the mourners wore black. It was common for the bodies to be taken direct from their houses in which they died and it was a practice for the curtains to be drawn on
(800)
the day of the funeral. The curtains in neighbouring houses would also be drawn in sympathy. Of course in those days the hearse and the carriages were horse drawn, very often the horses had black plumes on the harness, over the heads. But the whole occasion tended to be a solemn affair and we felt there was something that had happened which was mysterious and that the person who'd died wouldn’t be seen again. That was the feeling you know.
Yes, yes, yes. They, one of the interesting points you made is the business of the body was usually laid at rest at the home?
R- Yes. Until the day of funeral, because that is fairly rare now isn't it?
R- Yes. Well, what has happened is the undertaking has become a business. Previously undertaking work was done by joiners, or carriage proprietors who combined with the coffin makers, and the basis of charges have altered entirely. In those days they would charge so much for the hearse, so much for the coach and extras. But now they give the mourners a choice of an inclusive price without giving details and so you take it or leave it. In other words it's got now to he a very high priced industry and is not exactly a monopoly but I think they might well be the subject of, what’s the thing
(850)
Royal Commission?
R - No, well not the Royal Commission but Enquiry into the prices. They might be the subject of an enquiry on the Prices Commission.
Oh I see. Yes, I am with you.
R- Yes. Oh yes.
It was a very discreet sort of local community type business wasn't it at one stage.
R - Before, yes.
And you knew the undertaker.
R - That's right.
And it was so and so’s uncle or something but it’s become much more impersonal hasn't it.
R - Very often. Yes that's true.
And of course everybody was buried, as opposed to cremated.
R - Oh yes. Cremation was never heard of in those days.
No. We’ll get on to more, better subjects anyway. Where did you enjoy going most when you were a child? Can you remember?
R – What, holidays?
Well holidays or days out or just somewhere in your locality, anything that is a particularly soft spot for you or full of memory.
R- Well, I enjoyed my holiday, family holiday at Colwyn Bay, we had quite a, several of them in succession.
Making sand castles and all.
R- But yes. But to me a holiday is a holiday wherever it is. It just so happened that my parents chose Colwyn Bay, and there we are, there we went.
Yes. You mentioned spending money I think on the previous tape, of a ha’penny a week didn't you?
R - Yes, or a penny yes.
And penny when you got a bit older?
R - Yes.
And, did you all have that or did it perhaps depend on…
R - No we didn’t all have it, it’s a question of ... when we got to the age of, we could spend and that wouldn’t be till I think we were about seven years old.
And when did you graduate to a penny a week?
R- Well, a year or two after that's all. But a penny a week was the accepted figure in juvenile society of those days.
(900)
You have no idea how much it varies today?
R- Well it frightens me because I hear of youngsters spending as much as two pounds on a Christmas card or a Birthday card. On a Birthday card, which to my mind is staggering. But I am informed this is what happens today.
Yes. Well anyway what did you spend your one penny a week on?
R- Oh sweets of course. Andy the sweets that lasted the longest had the preference.
Yes. You mentioned the peppermint ...
R - Aniseed balls was one. Oh yes, eh I had forgotten all about those things. But you see an aniseed ball had a brown coat, and you got that licked off and then it had a white body and then when you'd sucked the sugary white body there was a little seed left you see, which you broke with your teeth.
Yes. Did you call liquorice liquorice?
R - Oh yes, but we could buy liquorice roots in those days as well as the sticky liquorice, the Spanish liquorice. Yes, and that was a favourite.
Because everybody, well I don't know about round here, but certainly around where I live, calls it Spanish without thinking. And I'd never met that expression till I came up here.
R- Yes. That’s true, well we call it, we still, we call it Spanish more than liquorice you see? Yes. Why I don’t know. Oh, may be that the liquorice root originally came from Spain, may be.
Well from your comment you just said Spanish liquorice root, you, you mentioned it just before, I think you might be right yes.
R - Yes I think that was it you see?
Yes. So your money went on sweets until you had to contribute towards the next football.
R- Ob well, you see, by the age of ten I hadn’t a football. When I was nine at Darwen I had no football club and at school we had football, it was only after I left school that we had these voluntary clubs you see?
Oh I see yes. But certainly you'd be trying to buy marbles wouldn't you? Or winning them?
R - Oh yes, or win them, that's right yes.
Can you remember friends calling at the house often?
(950)(45 min)
R- Yes but it was more often than not on Chapel business.
So it was, it was a fairly what shall I say, open household. People did freely come and go.
R - Oh yes.
And they presumably were invited or did they just drop in?
R- Well I think it was, they were invited because we were a very… They dropped in for enquiries or some information or a request. We were a very busy household you see, so there was very little time for entertaining as such. No we hadn't, if the point, if the question is visitors to be entertained, I would say no.
Yes, it was always on some pretext or others.
R – Well, not pretext, this indicates something illusory.
Yes, true. On business.
R - It was for a purpose.
Yes, for a purpose, that’s a better word.
R – Yes. Special purpose, that's right.
Yes. Did Saturdays stand out as being a particular day in which leisure time was spent?
R- Well, as far as Darwen was concerned that had little effect. But we came to Lytham, St Annes and then when I began to take an interest in football, and association football by teams such as Blackburn Rovers, Bolton Wanderers, Preston North End, naturally we boys took an interest in the games.
So that very often occupied Saturdays.
R - Yes but we often played ourselves you see more than watched the games. We did at Blackburn when we moved to Blackburn in 1907.
SCG/07 June 2003
4,473 words.