THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON THE 23rd OF FEBRUARY 1979 AT YORK HOUSE, THE HOME OF THE INFORMANT ON LINKS ROAD, ST ANNES ON SEA. THE INFORMANT IS GEORGE FORRESTER SINGLETON, RETIRED SENIOR PARTNER IN THE FIRM OF G F SINGLETON AND COMPANY, ESTATE AGENTS, OF BLACKBURN. THE INTERVIEWER IS STANLEY GRAHAM.
Right Mr Singleton. Well as you know very well, what I want to do this week is look at your experience of the first World War, the Great War as I think it was called the Great War then.
R - It was
That’s it yes. Now we got nicely up to it in political terms, and very largely in social terms on the last tape that we did together. But one thing that struck me was you saying that you walked down to the offices of the Northern Daily Telegraph in Blackburn and if I am right you were
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a very young mill manager at that time weren't you?
R – No. I had, by this time I had changed to a professional life on the valuation of mills and works.
That’s it, yes.
R –That’d be 1912. Now the mar was 1914, 1 think it was August 4th was it?
I think yes, August 4th. So, but you had been a mill manager.
R - Oh yes.
Andy now, when you walked down that street in Blackburn that morning and saw that sign in the window, tell me what effect it had on you and what your thoughts were at that time. If you can think back to what your impressions were at that time you know. What you thought about the war and what you understood about the war then.
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R – Yes. Well, it gave me a shock and whilst at that time I couldn't visualise what was going to happen, at the same time there was a fear or dread of the unknown because war is destructive both of materials and human life, and in one sense I was horrified with the prospect.
In your mind then, did you even conceive the scale that that war could be on?
R- No, nothing like. Because previously all we had experienced was the Boer war which, my impression was it was mismanaged but nevertheless a lot of heroics took place and it's the heroics which one remembers such as the relief of Ladysmith the relief of Mafeking, and so on.
Do you think anybody at that time ... you know, did you hear anybody saying at that time, voicing any doubts as to what the scale of the conflict would be?
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R- Oh no, the man in the street, of which I was one, I don’t think had any idea of what was going to take place and what it meant. It was a head on collision, and we had to take the consequences whatever they were.
Yes. Now at that time of course there was no conscription. Some people volunteered immediately didn’t they?
R- They did.
Yes. And when did you volunteer? I take it you volunteered.
R- I did, but I was the eldest of the family and the bread winner. Now I had three brothers younger and the second youngest volunteered with a number of his pals from the Sunday school and joined the army within a month or so of the outbreak of war. My youngest brother joined
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in January, and the elder of the three younger brothers also joined in January. Meanwhile I went on with my work. Not that I was unwilling to go but my salary was required to maintain the home. However when the Derby Scheme was introduced I joined. Now the Derby Scheme was to enlist volunteers but to defer their call up until required by the services. Well, whilst waiting for a call up of course, I was on the look out for
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joining an interesting branch of the army and as I was in training as a surveyor I heard through a friend there were vacancies open in the Royal Engineers. So I mentioned this to one of my pals and we decided to enlist with the Royal Engineers instead of waiting for our call up which is what happened.
Now then, I take it that all the family, you were living with your brothers at the time, all the family were living together? Yes. Was there any discussion between you about, on the general issue of volunteering and who should go or stay, was there any discussion at all in the family?
R- Well I don't recall specific discussions but I do recall the
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surge of feeling for the protection of the country and there is no two questions that the early volunteers were, I was going to say inspired to join the forces by virtue of the danger to the nation. It was a wonderful response all over the country and indeed it caught the supply services short because uniforms and equipment were not ready for the volunteers and they were drilled in their ordinary clothes for weeks. I remember in particular the Manchester Pals who were stationed at Heaton Park. There were rows and rows of huts and there the recruits were, shall we say housed, accommodated and the old soldiers were brought out of retirement to take charge of the training, the drills, This is what happened.
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Would I be right in thinking that the first people to go would be the Territorials?
R - Oh well now, the Territorials were under orders. So they were called up as required, but bear in mind they were volunteers in so far as they were prepared before the war to undergo training for the purpose.
When you say that the early volunteers were, to a large extent, inspired by love of the country, by patriotic feelings...
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R - Yes.
Am I right in saying that probably not at that period but later, things went just a bit further than that and there was actual pressure on young men who hadn't volunteered, to volunteer. One thinks of things like the white feather that we have beard about, you know, and things like that. Have you any experience of that?
R – Well, yes. Well, early on there was definitely a recruiting campaign and the army authorities used the picture of
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Kitchener. And indeed, for a time, the early volunteers were known as Kitchener's army. So the voluntary recruitment went on I should thinks for over 12 months. I don’t think the compulsion came until later. And indeed, as far as numbers were concerned, the authorities were successful but then, later on, it was found that many people had volunteered whose services were more valuable on munitions or in coal mining. And so there were a number transferred back to civilian life on account of their specific skills.
Yes, I have come across instances of that in textile factories particularly. Tacklers I think was one area where…
R - They were, they were very scarce.
Yes. Where people were brought out of the army to keep the mills going. Yes
R - Oh yes they were. Right.
What I'm really thinking about is I'm wondering if you had any experience of personal pressure on people from say family, friends or even strangers. You know the sort of thing, “You're a fit young man. Why aren't you in the army?”
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R Yes, that's true. I was accused of being a coward when travelling in the train to Manchester on one occasion.
Can you tell me about that?
R - And, well ...
This must have been a very painful experience for you, I realise that.
R - Well it was, it was.
But you know, I think it's important.
R- It was. But you see there were very strong emotions developed, particularly after the first 12 months when the campaign in Flanders began to tell their tale of heavy losses. So the media, to a certain extent, encouraged the services and tended to criticise those who were not in. And also people with relatives in the services thought it strange to see apparently healthy, capable young men still in civilian life. It was a misconception, because they didn't know the circumstances of the
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individual with whom they were travelling but it was embarrassing. But I remember on getting out at Salford Station along with another friend much older than me, he said “Well, I don't know how you stuck it.”
Can you tell me of the actual circumstances of the, well it was an attack on you, I mean it was an attack.
R - Well no, I can’t remember the words, but I remember being strongly criticised for not being in uniform.
By an older man was that?
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R - Yes, oh yes. But, what shall I say, it’s understandable because people don't always think things through and they couldn’t, they didn’t know what I was doing or a few other people, I wouldn't be the only one.
That’s it yes.
R- No, there were others carrying on their jobs and I satisfied myself by joining the Derby Scheme voluntarily.
Yes. What sort of an effect did that have on you, that incident. What sort of an effect did it have on you?
R – Well a little resentment but then you had to let it go, there was no point in arguing, the carriage was full of people.
It must have been a very difficult situation.
R - Well it was very unpleasant.
Yes. And would you say that that was quite common that sort of thing?
R - Well when you say quite common, yes. I would say mine wasn't an isolated case.
Yes.
R- The emotions were whipped up by I say a) by the media and b) by the fact they had relatives serving and perhaps had lost relatives and there to all intents and purposes there were young men going about in civilian life quite indifferent to the dangers of the nation. This was the spirit.
Yes. You have mentioned something there which I think we ought to just talk about a little bit. The role of the media, which obviously at that time was the newspapers and advertising. That’s true isn't it?
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R – Yes.
Yes. What sort of a picture, I’m talking now about the early part of the war when your brother, one of your brothers had volunteered and the others were going to volunteer, the early months of the warp you know, probably say leading up to the first 12 months. What sort of a picture did the newspapers present to the people at home, what sort of impressions did you have of the course of the war, its scale, its conduct from what you read in the papers?
R - Well, the papers of course published official communiqués. But they also able to interrogate soldiers and sailors on leave. And so generally they got the story over as to what was going on. I remember, shall we say the nation was horrified with the slaughter on the Somme, so much so that Lloyd George who was then the Prime Minister challenged Sir Douglas Haig and the Generals as to the necessity of this slaughter. Indeed the enquiry is still going on because an author called
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John Terrain produced a book last year on Passchendaele. Now as I was in that battle I bought the book.
Yes, well you did mention that the other week and when we get to that I want to go into that very deeply with you. I want to give you a chance to say just exactly what you want to say about that.
R – Yes. Well, shall I say we were horrified? And we wondered about the necessity.
Can I just interrupt you there Mr Singleton? When you say that “We wondered about the necessity” what do you mean by “we”? Do you mean the people that you spoke to? You know if you were talking to somebody in the train or something like that?
R- Yes. Shall I say those who read the papers and these people generally
were shocked by the realities of the dead and wounded. And of course
a lot of the wounded eventually returned home on sick leave. My comment in retrospect is this “Was it necessary to take the initiative to press the Germans back, or should we have adopted a defensive role? Having established a line and say “Thus far and no farther.” you see? Now that is the big question. But our Generals at the time decided that they should attack, and in the event we find that in many instances our plans were discovered by the enemy and consequently the difficulties were
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greater. I have in mind the sinking of the H M.S. Hampshire with Kitchener on board. We now know that the Germans knew he was on board. Also the Gallipoli campaign, we now know that the Turks were prepared, they knew our plans. Well, of course we were unsuccessful.
I get a picture Mr Singleton of the beginning of the war, you tell me what you think about it, I get a picture of a very proud nation, very strong, very sure of their own strength, presented with a challenge from Germany and reacting in what can be almost said, as I say I am getting this picture of a nation faced by threat and in some ways, I mean no disrespect when I say this, but reacting to it really in an almost unrealistic, amateurish way. You know, nobody seems to have really realised, the man in the street didn’t seem sufficiently prepared to realise what the possible scale of things could be. And what I'm wondering is how long was it before the reality started to dawn on people? The reality that what we were into was perhaps a lot more serious than people thought say, in between August and December 1914.
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R - Yes well, there was an optimistic feeling that it would be over by Christmas but of course when Christmas arrived, it wasn’t and we found we were in deep trouble, and from then it went on. But I wouldn't say amateurish but, because we probably had for size, the best army and certainly the best navy in the world, but I doubt if we were, well I’m sure we weren't fully prepared for such a determined onslaught as the Germans gave us you see. Again, with hindsight we find that there were diplomats, service men and politicians who did realize the seriousness of the war but speaking generally there were few. I have already referred to the fact that it was fortunate for this country that we had such an able government, men of ability and character. And it so happened that the change of
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government in 1906 had a very profound effect on events, because they did approve of Dreadnoughts to the navy, they did approve of administration in the army, they did establish the Territorial army, they did prepare for unemployment and the basics of the welfare state. So that they did gear the existing organisations into increasing the size of the requirements by way production of munitions and transport. And after the war we organised the nation in an orderly fashion through having the labour exchanges and the unemployment schemes. Yes. That is what happened. Of course,
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we were living from day to day. The events rolled over us like waves on the sea shore, and judgement had to be made by those in office, in power, as to what decisions to make. Fortunately, our determination won through, the whole Empire came to our rescue, I remember seeing Indians in their various regimental outfits, Negroes from the West Indies ...
Up to now what we have been talking about is mostly attitudes. Now I’d just like to finish this tape off with one last question about attitudes. It’s fairly well accepted now that, I’ll give you three names – Elgar, Rudyard Kipling, E.M. Forster. Three eminent men, thinkers, not perfect men by any means - anybody who has read the biographies of them will know that - but they all had one thing in common, they seemed to… I’ve heard you say that 1914 was a watershed as far as the cotton trade was concerned and I agree with you. From what I have read of the history of the cotton trade I can do nothing but agree with you. But it seems to me that it was also a great watershed in lot of other ways - and people like these three men I’ve talked about regarded the Edwardian period itself as a watershed in that at varying periods between the death of Queen Victoria and the start of the first world war, they seemed to think that their world had finished, that their world had ended. Elgar stopped writing music, Forster completely went to pieces morally and in a lot of other ways. And you get the impression from reading about men like that that the world changed completely. I think it was Virginia Woolf that said ‘On or about (I've forgotten the exact date, I think it was 1912) the world changed’ Would you say from your own experience that there was any truth in that sort of attitude, that there was a really big change sometime just before the first world war, when the world actually did change, when attitudes changed.
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R – Well, the war was the cause of the change in my opinion. War was the cause of the change. Now the Victorians, the success of the Victorian age to the Victorians was the expectation of the continuation of success. They never dreamt of any other because period after period, wave after wave, the increase of prosperity in this country developed until we became very wealthy with investments all over the world and an income from those investments and colonies, and other countries, backward countries and that brought prosperity. But it came in waves because with human nature, shall we say unable to cope with the vagaries of nature. For instance, the question of crops, sometimes they were bumper crops sometimes they were failures. Well, those caused more than ripples, they caused consternation in the financial world because those concerned, particularly in adversity, could not then pay for goods that we could make and so on. But nevertheless, there had developed a belief that generally we should, our success would continue year after year. Now I would say that was the common
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belief as far as a common belief can be defined. We, that is the population, weren't conscious of what was going on in other countries. We weren't aware of the jealousies which developed particularly with Germany and the Kaiser being a grandson of Queen Victoria and also having a deformity. He developed an ambition to a parity with, if not superiority with England. And I believe that was at the root of the outbreak of the war. It may have been embodied in one man but nevertheless the spirit of Germany was affected that way, you see. The effect of the war was to alter the mode of life in many respects, including the religions life of the country. Now up to the war there had developed a code of conduct which was more or less acceptable, the keeping of the Sabbath for instance, the attendance at Church, the training of young people through the Sunday Schools and so on. Now the war came and upset that routine and after the war it was never the same. The habit of Church attendance was changed, a lot of the taboos or
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prohibitions were changed. And speaking generally, people got more materialistic, may be because of the difficulties and shortages after the war because bear in mind it was a very costly business in terms of wealth as well as of loss of life and to get back to civilian life there were many difficulties.
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So what we are really getting to now then is that in the same way that the Boer war was a tremendous blow to ideas of imperialism and colonialism, the Great War was as great a blow to the sort of social structure that existed in England before it.
R - Oh yes. Absolutely.
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