THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON MARCH THE 9th 1979 AT YORK HOUSE, THE HOME OF THE INFORMANT ON LINKS ROAD, ST ANNES ON SEA. THE INFORMANT IS GEORGE FORRESTER SINGLETON, RETIRED SENIOR PARTNER IN THE FIRM OF G F SINGLETON AND COMPANY, ESTATE AGENTS, OF BLACKBURN. THE INTERVIEWER IS MARY HUNTER.
Now, Mr Singleton, when I was last here we were discussing education.
R - Yes.
And the last point I think we made was the studying you did after you left school but I think we concluded that point. So just for a little while longer we'll discuss education and your schooling. When you were at school were you able to get home for your dinners?
R - Yes.
So, you just came home during the lunch hour and had lunch with the rest of the family?
R – Yes, we’d a two hour interval.
Two hours?
R- Half past twelve till half past two.
Did you?
R - But we worked till half past four.
Yes.
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R - You see? We’d start at nine o'clock till half past twelve with a break at eleven for a quarter of an hour and we were provided with a glass of milk and a thick piece of bread covered with syrup. This was a private school, a boarding school, but boarders and day boys got this refreshment in the middle of the morning. And to growing boys it's a very good thing.
Lasted you out till lunch time.
R - Yes.
You walked home presumably did you?
R – Yes.
Yes. Were you trained in any practical work at school?
R- No. Not at this private school. At the Darwen Higher Grade School there was a subject called Manual which in effect was woodworking. We were taught to use saws and chisels, but at the private school we had no such facilities we had a full programme without. Yes.
Did your parents ever visit the school?
R - Well, they were invited to speech days and prize giving and such occasionally but otherwise there was no need to visit the school.
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Presumably because it was a boarding school as well, there weren’t such things as ‘Parent’s Evenings’ because of the problem of distance for some of the parents.
R – No. But the parents had direct access to the headmaster. You see there was no interfering authority between the school and the parents.
Yes well, the general thing of course…
R - You see the whole concept of education has developed and I’ve seen it grow and known of it before I was born because my mother and her aunt were teachers under the Education Act of 1870. Now perhaps I might say at this stage that up to that period education
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was provided by Christian Churches. Anglican, Roman Catholic and Non-Conformist. As good as that was it had limitations and difficulties caused by inter-denominational rivalries.
Yes they were quite ... running high weren't they?
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R- You see? Now as a result the board of Education developed a method of control whereby there was an Education Committee formed in the town of sufficient size. And the Education Officer exercised some form of control as to standards and as to the qualification of teachers. Well, eventually this local Board of Education brought in what was known as a Higher Grade School to take the education of the scholars beyond the elementary teaching of the churches you see?
R - Now, that involved the coming together shall we say…(stop it will you?)…This brought the higher Grade Schools above denominational interests and it might be said it was the foundation of the educational system as we now know it because after 1900 and up to the first world war, Board Schools were introduced for elementary education as well an higher education. But in certain area’s as in Blackburn they had a Boys Grammar School of an early foundation and the Girls High School. Now, each with an independent lot of Governors. Now the Grammar school has remained independent to this day but the High School became absorbed in the local education system and was lost. Now then, how far have we got? What’s the next question?
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Well it was in fact the degree of interest shown in your school work but 1 think you've you already answered that by your previous question. Did the school contact your parents about your progress?
R- Well they got, I think we got weekly reports. We certainly got terms reports and so there was direct contact between the school and the parents. And the parents had no difficulty in making an appointment to discuss anything they wished with the headmaster.
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Did your teacher suggest types of jobs which you might pursue?
R- No, that kind of question was unnecessary in a private school and whilst in general conversation the headmaster would chat with the senior boys in a general way and might point out interesting features in different careers there was no programme of career guidance.
What sort of jobs or careers did the headmaster sort of regard as a good career.
R- Well I couldn’t recall, but I remember the headmaster was interested in what happened in the world outside the school, and used to think that the cotton trade, which was the principal trade of the county, was very interesting and its ..
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Prospects?
R – Yes but he’d no decided influence and it was generally assumed that parents would look after their children in the choice of their future.
How did your school mark Empire Day and other special events like Queen Victoria's Jubilee or Coronations?
R - By a half day holiday.
Well, that’s simply answered. You can't recollect sort of doing massive projects or anything to mark it or decorating the school or anything?
R – No. But you see the civic authorities of those days recognized Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee and Edward VII Coronation by giving school children medallions to celebrate the events. And a certain amount of entertainment and firework displays, but there was no big scale of events.
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And Empire Day? No particular…
R- Oh no. It was, I think if I remember rightly, Empire Day took place on Queen Victoria’s birthday, I think it was substituted, I think so. Because Empire Day only came in, not long before the war as a special day.
Yes I see.
R- Not been going all that long. I've an idea it was Disraeli who put forward the suggestion of Empire Day when Victoria became Empress of India.
Oh I see, yes.
R- I think there was some connection that way. It was on May 24th wasn’t it? Yes, I think it was May 24th and I think it was a substitute for Queen Victoria's birthday. But we also celebrated May 29th which was Royal Oak Day.
[June 1st was Empire Day. Oak Apple Day or Royal Oak Day was 29th May]
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Oh yes. By a holiday again?
R – Yes, which meant an extra game of cricket.
Yes. Now then we'll leave education for the moment and go on to another area. Did the neighbours help…
R- Wait a minute. Have I made it clear that the relationship between the school, and they were mostly private schools in those days, between the parents was direct and there was a close interest and if the parents were not satisfied with the school they gave a term’s notice and transferred their children to another school. There was a certain amount of transfers and for a variety of reasons. And, some headmasters had a reputation for a particular slant on education and so on. But it was largely the private schools, it was largely a development of
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the desire on behalf of parents to give their children a better education than they had, and they were able to do so by the prosperity of which prevailed in the country. Now that didn’t eliminate poverty, it didn't eliminate the whole areas where people couldn't afford education but it was a development and I would say a general improvement in the body politic which had led to a great development in the education of young people, until now. Yes. To use Macmillan’s phrase ‘They have never had it so good’ But 1 don’t think they appreciate it, appreciate their opportunities as much as we would have done had we had a chance.
True. You tend to take for granted what's always been there don't you? It's a great shame but still. As I was saying, did the neighbours help if someone was ill, or someone died or was confined?
R - Well you see, as far a St Annes was concerned it was little more than a village. It had only been established 25 years when we came to live here, and there was a friendly atmosphere. I don't recall any specific case where one neighbour came to the help of another but there was a general good will amongst the people in the town. Right.
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Did they do much borrowing?
R - Borrowing?
Yes.
R- Well, this is a rather interesting question. There wasn’t a lot but there are people who form the habit of spending as they go and then relying on kindly neighbours to help them out when they'd shortages, but there wasn't a lot of that kind of thing and, to a large extent it’s a matter of training and temperament.
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Did you have much visiting by neighbours?
R - Well it all depends what you mean by such, but in those days, latter Victorian days, there was a convention of ladies calling upon each other and presenting their cards and having afternoon tea parties which were very pleasant occasions and it gave the ladies the opportunity of a good gossip.
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It certainly did yes. On those occasions would they be invited or did they just, as you say, present their cards?
R- Well in the first place they’d present their cards, but I think that, as matters developed there would be little parties arranged for future occasions.
At homes.
R - At homes. That's it yes.
With the cucumber sandwiches.
R - Yes, that’s right.
Yes. This is perhaps directed at a different, for want of a better word, sector of society, the business of neighbours chattering to each other on door steps, can you remember that particularly?
R- Well, there weren't sufficient houses.
No.
R - You see building plots were taken by builders in different parts of the town, and they would build according to what they thought saleable and suitable. So there wasn’t the mass of people as you get in industrial towns since they have been developed. So the circumstances are rather different from that question.
Yes. They are indeed. Do you remember any poor children in the neighbourhood? And were they treated any differently?
R – Yes, there were, there were some families where they had large number of children and where the father, there was only one wage
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coming in, and the mother was hard put to it to provide for the children but that's always happening, and there was no welfare state. But there were charitable people about, most of the churches had what was known as a poor fund, where the clergymen or minister, knowing of cases of hardship, would provide the cash for the family to tide it over the difficult period. And somehow or other we got through you see?
What kind of families were thought of as being particularly rough?
R- Well, to a large extent it depended upon their previous education. Now, rough jobs were done by navvies, who came over from Ireland. Likewise the hay makers came over from Ireland. Speaking generally, they were illiterate. Some of them settled in the area and, generally speaking, were on the poverty line. But they got through.
Would you be able to decide which kind of families were regarded as being respectable?
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R - Those who paid their way.
That's an excellent answer. Yes. This next question, I don't think would probably apply to St Annes but do you remember any soup kitchens? Soup kitchens?
R- No, not in St Annes.
And Darwen?
R - I've heard of them but, what I remember particularly with a regard to poverty, was the Irish potato famine. And families collected money for the purpose and at Darwen I remember taking my family Saturday pennies to the offices of the Darwen Advertiser which were the headquarters for collecting funds for the Irish famine. This was before 1900.
[The Great Famines were between 1845 and 1850. Perhaps there were later failures of the crop]
Yes. You say you remember them, so there was one in Darwen you think was there? Soup kitchen?
R - Well not to my knowledge but I have read of them of course so I can’t give evidence, it's irrelevant
Oh I see, yes. So in fact your family wasn't involved in helping.
R - No.
Do you know anything about the old workhouse?
R- Yes, I remember the workhouse for the Fylde being built at Kirkham just after the turn of the century but when I removed to Blackburn I do remember the buildings of the workhouse. But what I do remember is the horror in the minds of people having to be sent to the workhouse. Now this instigated
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all kinds of improvements to help society. There were savings clubs, there were burial societies, the sick and burial societies and there were friendly societies formed largely in the Victorian era to assist people who in their later years met with a misfortune or who had been unable to save. And there was in society generated a good will towards those who’d fallen by the wayside. It didn’t cover everybody but it was a development in society before Lloyd George introduced the pensions in 1909 and the Labour Exchanges which were generally speaking the foundation of the Welfare State.
That's right, yes.
R - But in my early days these various voluntary organisations may be said to be a run up to the state provision, and eventually many of them were taken over you see?
Have you got any personal memories of this dread that you spoke of earlier?
R - This what?
Dread.
R- Oh yes. I remember being in conversation with people and they had a fear, indeed it was a dread of losing their independence, of losing their own homes and being sent to the workhouse. Now the workhouse methods were very primitive, the men had standardised clothing of a poor quality, likewise the women they had standardised frocks, bonnets, and aprons. And all that could be said was that they were kept alive you see? With, in a very primitive fashion.
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You didn’t actually know anyone who…
R - No.
No. Can you remember how widows managed to make a living?
R - Yes. By taking in washing, by going out to help in homes, sometimes doing sewing and generally helping in domestic matters.
Did you have any relations living near by you who could help your family if someone was ill?
R - No.
Not even when you were in Darwen?
R - No. No we hadn't. They couldn’t be, no they couldn’t, my grandmother died when I wan four, left my grandfather a widower. He had a spinster sister who kept house for him in his later years, but they weren’t in a position to help.
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When did you see any of your relations?
R - When did I see them?
Yes.
R – Well I used to call in occasionally on my way down to school, call in to see my grandfather and that's about it. The others had left the town, you see?
Yes I see, yes. What social class do you think your family belonged to?
R- Well in those days we never thought of class distinctions. I know nowadays it’s one method of grading society but we weren't class conscious as at present understood. It’s difficult to define, but if there was any classification it was those who were in work, and employed and those who were self employed. And, speaking generally, it was the desire of operatives to become employers in one form or another. And, to a large degree, it was a question of self help and opportunity. Of course we were aware that some
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people were better off than our family, and we were aware that other people were not as well off, but apart from a desire to improve our lot I don’t recall any envious eyes or jealousy because other people were better off. But we all hoped to be better, a little better, as opportunity came our way, and that's summed it up.
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Yes. Do you think generally speaking people did not think along lines of class? Do you know, that the class consciousness was not evident, or was it something that just your family encouraged?
R - Well, no, they didn’t, no, class consciousness is developed by politicians largely through Marxism.
It’s an interesting point that actually.
R - Yes. Well I don't want to embark on a hypothetical exercise at this particular moment, I want notice but I think that's a fair statement that when I say people were contented with their lot, they accepted their lot in life as they found themselves but they had a desire to improve and they made the effort then they had the opportunity. With the result that this country developed by leaps and bounds up to 1914 when the Great War came and upset everything. I was going to say, it became the watershed of a different way of life.
Do you think it would be fair to say that up to 1914 the principle of self help was indeed very evident?
R - It was. Oh yes. You see now self help isn't, doesn’t mean selfishness. Self help means self improvement. You see?
Oh yes, Samuel Smiles.
R - Samuel Smiles yes. He was a great power, by inspiring young men to develop their abilities. Now, I can say this, that several successful men in the social life of the town of Blackburn told me that they owed their success to having learnt shorthand after leaving school with the result that they were often called upon in emergencies to take down notes for somebody in authority, and as such, those in authority found the young men who had taken shorthand were very knowledgeable and so they got their opportunity. That’s just one line of development. What do you want me to say?
Did you know anyone from other social classes.
R - Well as I said earlier on, we didn't recognise social classes. We were conscious that some people were not as well off as ourselves and we were not as well off as others but in the social life of the town, we mixed with one another. We took part in games, we took part in our Church life and we didn’t think of distinctions.
SCG/09 June 2003.
3,220 words.