THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON MARCH THE 9th 1979 AT YORK HOUSE, THE HOME OF THE INFORMANT ON LINKS ROAD, ST ANNES ON SEA. THE INFORMANT IS GEORGE FORRESTER SINGLETON, RETIRED SENIOR PARTNER IN THE FIRM OF G F SINGLETON AND COMPANY, ESTATE AGENTS, OF BLACKBURN. THE INTERVIEWER IS MARY HUNTER.
What kind of jobs did the men in your street have Mr Singleton?
R - Well now, at what period of my life?
Well I think we’ll take the Darwen because as you have said, St Annes was more like a village and it’s more difficult to do.
R – Yes. Well now, I was nine and a half when I left Darwen, but after I set up in practice on my own account in 1922 in Blackburn I was remembered by a number of Darwen people who were good enough to
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instruct me in some cases to look after their work. So, it helped with my memory of the early days. Now you asked me what kind of work did the…
Men in your street.
R – Yes. Well, I lived in Belgrave Road at the top of a hill. Now at the bottom was a wallpaper printing works, then going up the hill on either side were cottages with gardens which were a step above the rows of cottages in the town without gardens. Then at the top where I lived, was the beginning of a larger type of house, although terraced houses. The people who lived in those were professional people - I remember an architect, a works manager, a works secretary, an engineer, a cotton manufacturer and so on. So that natural selection played its part in so far as those who were able to afford a larger house were able to obtain, them and live there.
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Just completely, a thought that's just come to me - did you have a system, sort of mortgages then?
R - No. There were certain societies which helped financially in the purchase of houses, one comes to mind was known an the Star Bowkett, B o w k e t t, but of the details I don’t know. There were mortgages but done privately, on fixed terms, for a fixed term of years and for a fixed rate of interest. But the Building Society mortgage as we know it today was none existent. But at any rate, I wasn’t aware of it.
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So in fact, most people were, would be…
R - They saved up sufficient money to pay for their own house.
Outright?
R - Outright yes.
Yes, that's interesting. Now in your, the previous answer, you gave some indication of the sort of natural selection and types of housing in the, with gardens and without. What was thought of as the rough streets in your area?
R - What?
What was thought of as the rough streets?
R – Well, rough streets so called were in the centre of the town because Darwen is in the shape of a valley, and the early development naturally was in the centre. And I think I've said earlier that the trades which developed in the town were the cotton mills and calico printing works and wallpaper works, relying on water from the surrounding hills.
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Yes. So they were, they were in the valley bottom.
R – That’s right. Well now, the early operatives were reinforced by people coming in from different parts of the country. And my grandfather informed me that his father came from Poulton le FyIde and I gather had been attracted by another man who'd left Poulton le Fylde earlier for Darwen you see? Well when you say rough, I suppose you mean houses with few facilities. Well, in the early days there was no piped water. I have already referred, either with you or with Stanley, to they the old pail closet system…
Oh yes.
R - .. being converted to water. Well naturally the houses with poor accommodation were occupied by people who were on relatively low wages.
Would you say that the rougher, poorer or whatever streets were synonymous with age, and in fact the older streets in the oldest parts of the town were for want of a better word, less salubrious?
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R – Yes.
On the typical growth pattern of a town, that suburbia or the outlying parts where the… yes…
R - Gradually you see, this is a, a town in effect is a living organism and as opportunity arises it stretches out and with transport
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facilities, people lived further away from their employment. Until now we have got a highly sophisticated society relying on motorcars.
That’s true. So the better streets, or the better parts of town were the outskirts.
R – Yes.
Who wore considered to be the most important people in the town and why?
R - Well I would say the doctor and the employers. The doctors because of their ability to relieve pain and restore health to people and the employers for their efforts in bringing business to the town and then providing employment.
Where do you think the teachers came?
R - Oh yes the teachers were respected but they were if you like, a step below the medical profession. They weren't regarded as so important.
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But nevertheless, there was a regard for education and as people realised the advantages of, and as I have already said, it was the aim and object of parents to give their children a better education than they had.
Yes. What did the children in your area think about the police?
R - About what?
The police.
R - The police. Well, they treated them with a certain amount of awe and respect, but at the same time they never missed an opportunity of poking fun at them.
In what ways? Can you remember?
R - Well there was a jingle “I wish I was a bobby, dressed in bobby’s clothes, a big tall hat, and a belly full of fat, and a pimple on his nose.” Eh, I forgot. That’s come back over eighty years.
And did you sing it?
R - Of course we did. We used to go about the streets.
Oh come on then. Let's hear it.
R – No, we used to go about the streets as youngsters you know, singing jingles and little songs, enjoying ourselves, but…
That’s a lovely one, lovely! Oh I wish you’d sing it for me. Can you remember any more like that?
R - No, not off the record, but that just came spontaneously from the reserves.
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Well you see what you have got stored up there? Yes. Did, you presumably had one policeman, like the sort of village policeman did you?
R - Oh, now then, in Darwen of course there was a police force you see but in St. Annes there was only one that I recall. Or may have been two, but there was a sergeant in charge of a small station you see?
So he would be well known wouldn't he?
R - Oh yes. And highly regarded. What shall I say? The offences in those days were relatively small, there weren’t the number of offenders that there are today. There was greater respect for authority and the effect of Christian religion told its tale. I think I said that the bulk of the children would attend some form of Sunday School whereby they were taught to behave, to respond to good conduct and so on, which created an atmosphere whereby we expected people not to break the law
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But there have been big changes since that relatively simple life. Things have got very complicated but we had not the distractions that there are today. We children got our homework to do, and then to play as we wished either individually or mostly in groups and we enjoyed our life accordingly.
How did the police treat the children?
R - Oh, with a certain amount of paternalism, speaking generally they were very kindly.
Would they know your names?
R- No I wouldn't say they got that far because there were rather more… But they had their own field of operation, they didn't deliberately mix with us, but we knew who the police were and treated them with respect.
They were still paternal even after you had sang your little rhyme to them?
R - Oh no, they didn’t hear that.
I’m sure they knew though. Which parts of the town did you go to regularly other than your home area?
R - The park. That's about all. Oh, and the market.
Would that, how often did that take place?
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R - We had no fixed plan, it was just as occasion arose.
Was there anybody, whether they were of a different religion or foreigners, whom your parents preferred their children not to marry?
R - Not to?
Marry.
R- Oh yes. The Protestants had an aversion against marrying into Roman Catholicism and vice versa. Yes. Apart from that I don't think there was any other shall we say hindrance.
No. And that was a common view as well as yours, a view held by your parents, was it? Yes.
R - Oh yes it was.
Yes. Do you remember anyone being called a real gentleman or a real lady?
R - Well, it depends in which part of my life. I'm familiar with the expression so there must have been people held in esteem in that way you see? And I recall remarks such an ‘being ladylike’ and so on. But such qualities were genuinely given to people who respected, shall we say the
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lower grade of society. And indeed there were many good natured ladies and gentlemen who of their time and substance gave to objects for the benefit of those not so fortunate. Indeed, that was the essence of Victorian society.
Yes. Right well, we'll move on a little bit further now and discuss matters of health. Did your family have any special cures for illnesses?
R- For illnesses. I don't recall except that mother made her own cough mixture for the family.
Yes, I think you mentioned that earlier on.
R - I don’t recall anything other than that, not special.
No. Did your family have to call the doctor very often?
R - Not very often. No, as a family we had got good health but there were children’s diseases you know, we passed through the lot I think. And the doctor was called in of course. Now the doctor was a real support of society, everybody relied on their doctor.
Yes. When your aunt was ill you perhaps saw quite a lot of him then.
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R- Oh yes. But what could he do? Have I told you what the … You see?
Yes you have, yes.
R - They did their best.
Yes, it was really a matter of relieving rather than … yes.
R - Oh yes. That's all, that's all. And indeed the relief was of a doubtful quality because, being alcohol, it brought other reactions than the numbing of pain you see?
Yes quite. Can you remember your family finding it difficult to pay the doctor?
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R- Well, normally no, but in the incidence of business I do remember my father having made a bad investment in connection with his business which seriously affected his income for a number of years. (That’ll do won’t it?)
Yes. Did your family belong to a friendly society? You mentioned them before.
R – No.
No. And you, presumably your father wouldn’t receive any money from a trade union if he was sick because presumably he didn't belong to one, did he?
R – No. He didn’t belong to one no.
When it came into operation, was your father covered by the Lloyd George scheme?
R - No, he was self-employed.
That's what I thought yes. Did your family belong to a hospital scheme?
R – No.
Or did they pay for death, family, or funeral insurance?
R – No. No you see, I know the idea behind those two questions but people who were employed and on a limited wage or income joined such societies for their mutual benefit and to avoid the effects of sudden illness or tragedies taking place in their lives, so that there was a distinction between people who operated on their own account and people who were employed.
Yes, quite.
R- Now if I may say here, people operating on their own account had been classified an private enterprise. Well now, to my mind that is a misnomer, because there is no such thing as private enterprise. If your enterprise has to be successful you must be in contact with other people and you must supply a service or goods which they are wanting.
Quite.
R - So I prefer the description of a person [who is] self-employed as being of the category of direct responsibility.
Obviously your coined expression.
R - It is. And I thought about it for some time. But it is a better description of the facts of life concerning self-employment.
Yes. It certainly makes you very distinct from those companies where they have shareholders, and therefore responsibility is not direct of course.
R- Quite.
Yes. And likewise I suppose you can almost apply it to private education, as well where the term of course is also sort of misleading.
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R - Yes it is misleading. We can't live a private life. We have periods of privacy admittedly but man is a social animal putting it crudely and he lives by performing a service in one form or another which is mutual.
That’s right yes. Coming back to health, did anyone in the family have any operation at home?
R - No.
It's just as well I think. My great aunt tells a very gory tale of a rapid operation she had to have at home on the kitchen table.
R – Yes.
Were the babies in the family born at home?
R - Yes.
Can you remember any of your brothers and sisters being born?
R- Yes.
What sort of happened in the house can you remember?
R - Yes. I remember being wakened in the middle of the night, wrapped up and carried to a neighbour's house.
So that, presumably you…
R- And taken to a bedroom. Yes, quite.
And instructed to go back to sleep again. That would be so that you weren't aware of the toings and froings, and they …
R - Well it wasn’t so much that as out of the way, you see? There would be a noise, the baby would cry, waken the children and what were the children going to do while the doctor and the nurse were busy, occupied with the mother? So obviously it was a sensible way to unload the family.
Quite. So you had both a doctor and a midwife did you, in attendance?
R - Yes when available but 1 remember on one occasion I believe I had to go for the midwife. We called her a nurse in those days. Nurse Saunders name is coming back to me. But where possible the doctor and the midwife were in attendance you see?
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Can you remember whether the nurse was trained?
R - Trained? Oh she was trained in a practical manner by previous midwives. There were no…
By a sort of apprenticeship?
R - Oh now, a kind of apprenticeship, they were what shall I say, as a little boy I would think they were a kind of a secret trade. A mysterious secret trade. But they were taught by or they picked it up by being with an experienced midwife.
Were there any diseases which your family particularly dreaded catching?
R – Well I wouldn’t say particularly dreaded, but it was accepted that children went through the usual routine of measles, whooping cough what other things are there?
Chicken pox?
R – Chicken pox and that kind of thing. I don't know that they were dreaded, they weren’t wanted but they were in a sense expected.
Am I right in thinking that scarlet fever was particularly….
R – Yes, scarlet fever, yes. Yes now, scarlet fever was regarded as the worst, and sometimes whooping cough. Oh, typhoid was another that occasionally cropped up. Well, you say dreaded, it's…
It’s a bit strong.
R - Aye it's a bit strong for young children but we picked up certain things, we had to be careful and we had to do this, that and the other. But where children are playing together and there is a certain infectious disease, there is no escape from it you see?
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No. But you had no recollection say of your mother sort of keeping you in if she knew there was an epidemic of something that she wasn’t particularly keen on you catching?
R - Well she exercised every precaution if it was known that a certain infectious disease was in a certain family. Well we had to avoid that family for the time being. Things like that.
Did you know any children who had had rickets?
R - No but I've seen them.
11ave you?
R - In the towns. Yes thin legs, bent knees and the general effects of malnutrition you see?
Knees that wouldn't straighten in other words?
R - That's right, Oh yes.
It must be ghastly. If your mother was not able to feed her babies herself how did she feed them?
R - Well she did feed them herself and supplemented by the special feeds of the day. Melling’s Food was one.
The powder milk. Like we still have today?
R - Yes, the powder yes.
Yes. Was your mother particular about disinfecting the house and catching flies, and things like this?
R - Oh yes, it was a regular thing to have the sticky fly catchers hanging from the ceiling, or from gas jet lamp or something like that.
Yes. And presumably you had things like meat safes and things like that in the pantry because of the flies.
R – Yes.
And the fly swatter.
R - Yes that’s right. Oh the flies were dreaded. Now if it comes to dreading anything, it was the flies.
Really?
R - Yes. Well of course, they were known to be carriers of disease. Yes.
Right, moving on again, to work. We have already discussed your father’s job but perhaps we can look at it in a little bit more detail where you can remember. What hours did he work?
R - Well, he left home to catch the quarter to eight train in the morning and he got back about half past six at night.
Yes Darwen to…
R- Darwen to St Annes.
To St Annes?
R- Yes.
Oh I see yes. You wouldn't of course have any idea … just
R- Oh well, before we removed, well of course he kept ordinary office hours but his business took him to different parts of the county, and consequently his hours were somewhat irregular.
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You wouldn't have any idea of the sort of income he had would you?
R - No. No, but he, in the first 15 years of his business on his own account, he was successful, and he had saved sufficient capital to be able to continue his independence but then he made a bad investment.
Yes…
R- To which I have already referred.
When would that be about?
R – 1904. Which affected the family fortune adversely, very much so.
For quite a few years?
R- Oh yes. It took us, it took him several years to recover and in the meantime it was short commons. And that’s that. Leave it at that.
Yes. Would you know whether things improved after 1918 as far his trade was concerned, or his job?
R – Well, it improved for few years due to shortages, but then after
three or four years, the immediate cause of the shortages after the war were removed and so his business declined. You see, it was dealing in second hand machinery and so that the law of supply and demand governed his reserves of business.
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How many staff did he have?
R -A book keeper and dismantlers, machinery dismantlers.
Yes. And haw did, how on earth did he transport it all?
R - Well, he hired wagons and so that when machinery was removed from one place to another, his men prepared it for transport, supervised the loading and then the offloading and the placing in the new premises.
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And would these be horse-drawn wagons?
R - Ob no by this time they were motor vehicles, mostly after the war.
Yes. Oh after the war yes. Can you remember, or would you know, if he paid his staff for holidays?
R - I wouldn’t think so. The payment for holidays developed after the first world war.
And would you know whether his staff had any part-time jobs as well as the ...
R - No they hadn’t.
Did your father or his staff ever have any accidents at work?
P. - Do you mean physical? Occasional but non fatal
Or serious.
R- No, non disablement, nobody was disabled, not for a long period.
No. So the question of compensation never came up. No.
R- Oh no.
So in fact you wouldn’t know whether your father would have paid it or not.
R – No, he might have done something, but I don’t suppose he’d have thought to have paid a full wage. It wasn’t, but he looked after his men of course. There you are.
He was rewarded by their service. Yes.
R - Loyalty you see, loyal support.
Yes. Would you know much about the Board of Guardians?
R - I know name of them but I’d no reason to enquire into their immediate duties. I knew what they did, they controlled the workhouse and they carried out the duties of the Poor Law. They also had the, I think it was a branch of the Guardians appointed the panel to adjust the rateable values.
Oh yes?
R – Yes, at any rate they met in the offices of the board of Guardians and I think there was some connection.
And, were there any other charities who would give relief or help to families?
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R - Well there were private charities, and there were, as I have already said, poor funds associated with churches, administered by the minister who called on members you see? Now, in cases of public misfortunes there were very often ad-hoc committees appointed to deal with collecting funds you see.
Yes. Something that affected the whole town or part of the town yes?
R- Yes. But apart from that, it was the custom in the works and mills, where employees met with misfortune of one kind or another that their work mates made a collection and handed over the proceeds to the unfortunates. And I always thought that was a very representative form of the good will that prevailed in those days for the benefit of people having what shall we say, hard luck either by way of health or accident or something of that kind. Yes.
Yes.
R- There was a charitable streak in society in those days.
Implying that…
R - Well…
Yes all right.
R- They can draw what conclusions they like.
Yes. Did your father’s staff belong to a trade union?
R- Oh no, there was no need. Oh no.
No. No. Did you...
R - Have I ever told you about the trade union of my grandfather?
I don’t think so.
R - Oh well. The Darwen Winders Weavers and Warpers, oh, the Darwen Weavers Winders and Warpers Association was formed in my grandfather’s cottage, if you please. So that, and he was an ardent Methodist and indeed many of the pioneers in the Trade Union Movement were members of churches.
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