THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON MARCH THE 9th 1979 AT YORK HOUSE, THE HOME OF THE INFORMANT ON LINKS ROAD, ST ANNES ON SEA. THE INFORMANT IS GEORGE FORRESTER SINGLETON, RETIRED SENIOR PARTNER IN THE FIRM OF G F SINGLETON AND COMPANY, ESTATE AGENTS, OF BLACKBURN. THE INTERVIEWER IS MARY HUNTER.
R - Well, continuing the subject of Trade Unions, to my mind they were formed to deal with the injustice in the terms of employment. Not only wages but conditions and hours, and so on you see? Now, I want to emphasise the word injustice, it wasn't just cash it was the whole set of circumstances. Now, and it was the injustice which appealed to the Christian tradition. Now, things have changed, and the opposition to injustice
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has developed to a self-interest for a particular group. Now this indicates a very important change in society and unfortunately, to its detriment because farther injustice is being made, and society is now suffering from the self-interest or selfishness of certain trade unions. In other words, the pendulum has swung too far the other way and therefore it will need an effort to restore the balance in society. It’s disgraceful that human suffering should be used as buffer for the self-interest of hospital workers, it is really shameful. And I think society, society will turn against it, but it takes time to make these adjustments.
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Did you have any part-time job before you started full-time work?
R - No.
What job did you get when you left school?
R - I became an office boy at a cotton spinning mill in Blackburn.
And what year would that be that you started?
R – 1906.
And you went straight on to full-time, did you?
R - Yes.
Yes. Why did you choose that job?
R – Well, that's a leading and interesting question, but by this time the cotton trade had been so well established that it became the object of the young men of the day to follow in the parents occupation in the cotton trade. Of course, as you will appreciate, there are quite a variety of work and services in the cotton trades, it wasn’t just simply being set to mind some machinery, there was a whole range of services from elementary to complicated management and so on. Well, do you want me to go on from there?
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Yes do.
R - Well that was the cause of the family leaving St Annes to go to Blackburn and I joined the technical school as it was then called. And to give you an indication of the interest that at the beginning of the first year 80 students gathered from the town and surrounding towns which will indicate the interest in the cotton trade.
And would the boys all be about your age?
R - Well, they varied in age. I was probably the youngest.
You were about 17 weren't you?
R – 16.
Sixteen yes.
R - And probably the oldest would be 21 or 2. The head of the department was a Mr Henry Neville who had made some reputation as an author of cotton weaving and being one of two delegates from the Blackburn Chamber of Commerce to its mission to China in 1898 I think. So he was considered an authority, and he was also a little dapper man and an obvious target for
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teenagers who attended the classes in their spare time. So whenever they could, they took liberties. But he was a good man and he organised the department very satisfactorily, we had diagrams of the machines and we had instructions as to calculations, and there was a weaving shed with a variety of looms for the manufacture of a variety of cloth so that it was a comprehensive education on cotton weaving.
And how often did you attend?
R – Oh, three times a week.
In the evening?
R - In the evening. I think it was seven o'clock to nine o'clock, there were two hourly sessions, one was the practical and another was art you
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see for design and pattern, and so on. So the subject was divided into three, a practical, and the art, and then the - what shall I call the ...
Theory?
R - The theory, that's it.
And you did that three times a week you said? Yes. And so presumably when you began as an office boy your intention was to…
R – Improve.
Learn the trade, not just stay in the office.
R - Learn the trade and improve my assets shall we say – yes.
Now this wasn't your father's firm though, was it?
R - No.
What hours did you work during the day?
R - Eight O’clock till half past five.
With an hour for lunch?
R- With an hour for lunch yes.
Can you remember what pay you got?
R – Yes, five shillings per week, which was a standard going rate for office boys.
So you thought that was a fair wage in fact yes.
R - Oh yes, it didn't matter whether you went to a solicitor’s office, or what, the going rate was five shillings for an office boy.
How much did you give to your mother?
R- The lot.
Oh good for you. How did your employer treat you?
R - They treated me very well as far as treatment was concerned. You see, in the office there were two senior clerks and the secretary, and a
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salesman, and then in the mill itself there was a manager you see? Then there were heads of departments known as, for instance the man in charge of the cotton opening machinery was known as the blow room major, delightful title. And then there was the carder in charge of the card room and the spinning master in charge of the ring frames, which were, that was the method of spinning at that mill and then the winding master who had charge of the finishing department, you see, into either beams, skips or ball warps or cheeses, whatever was required.
Wool warp?
R - Ball, b a 1 l ball warp.
Oh yes. What other jobs did you do after your first job, up to 1930?
R- Well, I left the spinning mill by mutual arrangement with the secretary, and went to help my father.
When was that?
R- Oh about six mouths after.
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Of the same year? Yes?
R - The same year. And meanwhile I attended the technical college, or technical school, and over the years proceeded to quality and get my certificate for cotton weaving. In the course of helping my father I did his office work and went out on inspection with him to see machinery and then he, as an extra, started a beaming business, along with the yarn agent and it was rather a one sided affair because my father took the responsibility for carrying out the work whereas the agent supplied the yarn and found the customers. Well then I was the secretary for this company sending out the accounts and dealing with the orders and so on.
When did he start that business?
R – 1908. But it was relatively short lived, I think it lasted no more
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than 18 months because it was an ancillary trade, and when trade was good there was the demand for extra beams but when trade was bad the small companies were the first to lose their business you see? Anyhow, it served a temporary purpose. And then in 1910 I was introduced to the Blackburn Manufacturing Co. Ltd, of Moorbrook Mill, Blackburn who wanted a mill manager. And I got the appointment, at the age of 20.
I was going to say, and had you got your certificate by then?
R – Yes.
And that was a weaving shop was it.
R - Weaving, yea, It was owned by two brothers Hugh Barton and Robert Barton who basically were cotton-waste merchants so this was an extra investment and they wanted somebody to manage it for them you see? Well I suppose they were attracted by the fact that I was prepared to take a small salary, I won’t tell you how much it was.
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Oh won’t you? Oh well ...
R - I don’t think so at this stage, at any rate we'll see. As far as cotton mills go, it was one of the early ones and small. It had 361 looms, 44 inch and 50 inch widths and the cloth woven was known as mole dhooties for the Indian market.
What sort of cloth was it?
R - It was a fine cloth with coloured borders for wearing - I think they call them saris - you see?
Yes, that’s right. So it would you liken it to a cotton lawn?
(20 min)
R – Yes. The specification of the yarn was 60s twist and 80's weft, you see? Which, which produces a very light pleasing fabric yes. Well that's what we made.
And how long did you work for them?
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R - About two and a half years, it was a very interesting experience. I think I got on well with the operatives in fact I'm sure I did. And they treated me with a certain amount of curiosity, being a young man but I always endeavoured to be fair with them and I must say I enjoyed the experience. It was hard going because in those days we worked 53 ½ hours per week starting at eight o’clock in the morning and finishing at half past five with breaks of half an hour for breakfast and one hour for dinner and on Saturdays till half past twelve - or was it twelve o’clock? – Yes, one period, half an hour, was taken off for Saturday morning, I think for one reason that was so the male population could attend the football matches and cricket matches you see?
[George has his times wrong, they don’t add up. I think he meant half past six in the morning and not eight o’clock.]
Yes well, in the course of my duties I had to keep the books, the account books, to prepare the particulars for warping and arranging delivery times for the production. And (I have got a photograph of it.) being one of the older mills, we did not get the quality of the staff that some of the modern mills had because they could earn more money at the larger mills Nevertheless, we’d quite a - shall we say - a happy party because many of them lived near by and found it very convenient and indeed there was a spirit of camaraderie in the mill in the sense that we all had to work hard. Because getting to work for six o'clock on a cold winter morning was no joke. We relied upon the engine tenter who also stoked the boilers, the boiler, one boiler, on being there at least half an hour beforehand to get the steam through the beating pipes. And occasionally, but not often, the trip gear on the engine would fail, and the engine would race
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away made worse by all the looms being stopped and the shafting rattling away at high speed. It was a frightening experience and the operatives rightly used to rush out of the mill when it happened.
Why did the looms stop?
R - Well because they were going too fast you see?
And they just cut out did they?
R - They cut out, that's right.
[Actually the weavers stopped the looms before they ran out in order to save having time and wage consuming smashes.]
Ah I see, yes. I should think it was a ghastly experience.
R- Yes, it was.
What did the tenter have to do? Did he have to stop the engine and start again?
R - Oh yes, stop it and start again that's right yes.
Oh I see yes.
R - Occasionally we had complaints for bad yarn or cops which were difficult to skewer on the shuttles. And I remember on one occasion receiving a deputation of weavers to complain but it so happened, oh and amongst the complaints were that “We can't earn a proper wage because our looms keep stopping on account of the faulty yarn.” But as it happens one of the deputation was one of the best weavers in the mill and normally he could earn 10% more than the average wages, how he did I don’t know but he was paid on piece work and he did. So, I turned to him and asked him what he was getting, so when he disclosed the amount to the deputation it quietly dispersed because he was not suffering you see and the idea was “Well, if he can manage we ought to manage.”
Even though he had been in the original deputation?
R – Yes.
Oh that was very diplomatically done.
R - Well it was a stroke of luck as far as that was concerned. We hadn’t many rows but we had no rows, we had complaints, legitimately, which were investigated but they were considered on their merits and dealt with accordingly.
Where did the yarn come from?
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R - The spinners, various spinners. Now sometimes the yarn from one mill was a better quality than the yarn of another. It was difficult, you couldn’t foretell, it depended upon the conditions in that particular mill you see, and the quality of cotton they were using. So matters like that arose occasionally you see?
So you didn’t in fact have regular supplies.
R - Well, we bought the yarn according to fulfil the orders, you see?
Of course, yes of course.
R - And, when an order was booked, a cloth was ordered, then it was customary to cover the yarn required, by buying from spinners at the then market price. Otherwise you ran the risk of the market going the wrong way in which case you would have incurred a lose. So the custom, and a wise custom, was to cover, because you take your order in the expectation of a certain amount of profit you see?
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Yes. How many weavers did you have under you? Because you mentioned 361 looms?
R - Well, they were mostly four loom weavers, I should think we have between 110 and 120 weavers. And then we had three tacklers, three men and a boy in the warehouse, a tape sizer, and a labourer. A coloured warper, that means to say a warper who warped coloured yarns. Three other plain warpers and about ten winders.
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Did you do the checking?
R - Yes. Yes, I was responsible for the production going smoothly, for the cloth orders being delivered to time and the right quality, and so on. So anything that came in I had to see that it was the right quality, as you say - checking - what is known as general management. It was quite an interesting experience and it was hard going but nevertheless it had its rewards, particularly in the, with the friendship of the people.
And you were there for, you mentioned two and a half years.
R - About two, two and a half years. Well, I remember one day my father came home and in the course of the evening he said he’d met a friend of his - an auctioneer and valuer in Manchester, who was in need of a an assistant with some knowledge of textile machinery and he asked me if I knew of anybody so that he could introduce them. Whereupon I said yes in answer to his question, and he said “Who?” and I said “Me”! As simple as that, instinctively I saw an opportunity of improving my chances in life because I couldn't see any other future for me in the mill than my present occupation. And as it turned out, oh my father arranged the interview, and I was appointed and I had no regrets, because the knowledge I had acquired at the technical school and with my father inspecting machinery in different parts of the county and at the mill itself came in very useful. And it didn’t take me long to understand what was required and I’ve never regretted the move.
Well done. Did you have to go to Manchester?
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R- Yes.
To begin with? Yes.
R – Yes.
And how long did you work for that firm? Did you mention their name?
R – Yes, F.S. Airie, Entwistle and Co. I joined the firm at the beginning of the partnership, previous to which Mr Airie had been in practice on his own for two years.
And you joined them in what, 1913 did you?
R - 1912.
1912.
R - August 1st.
And you returned to them after the war?
R - Well then I was with them until I joined the army in 1916. I was the last of the family to join the army as three of, being the eldest of the family and the bread winner. My three brothers joined early, one in September 1914 and two in January 1915. But I joined the Derby Scheme, that is to say I was a volunteer to be called up when required but in the event I heard there was an opening in the Royal Engineers and so, by which time I was studying Municipal Engineering at Manchester Technical College and
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so a friend and I decided to join which we did.
So you joined up in 1916?
R - Yes
With your friend? And for how long did you serve?
R - Until the end of the war.
Until the end. And then did you return to F.S. Airie and Entwistle?
R – Yes.
Still travelling from Blackburn to Manchester?
R - Yes.
That was a fairly early get up then, in the morning?
R - Yes it was, I got the eight o'clock train.
And did you sort of get any promotion or progress career wise with this company in the years you were with them?
R -Well yes. You see the clients used to ask the firm to undertake their requirements. Now, how shall I put it, the professional work was of making valuations and conducting sale by auctions to industry was similar to the medical profession to human beings, that's the nearest comparison I can make because it was a service to people with problems concerning their plant and machinery. And factories, buildings, and also when they had served their purpose with that particular firm their disposal to the best advantage. In other words a surgical operation.
Yes. It's a very good - what's the word - simile?
R - Simile.
Yes. Your particular knowledge and experience was presumably used when they had mills on their books.
R - Oh yes, oh well, yes it stood me in good stead because when owners
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of factories sought advice, my experience with the mill machinery gave me an understanding of the requirements. In other words I was able to make an appropriate diagnosis.
So anyway you were a sort of a consultant for the firm you worked for, and in fact for the clients.
R - That's right. That's right.
Yes. And presumably at the same time, managed to keep yourself completely up to date with the world of weaving.
R – Yes well you see I then went to these mills, a great variety and found it extremely interesting. It extended my knowledge of the trade and I was able to apply the principles which 1 had learnt to the immediate requirements of the client.
And how long did you work for F.S. Airie and Entwistle?
R - Until I commenced practice on my own account in August 1922.
So you worked for them for exactly eight years then, didn't you.
R - Ten years.
Ten years.
R - Less war service.
Ten years, I’m sorry. Yes, that's right. Because you started with them in August didn't you? You started with them in August.
R - Yes that’s right.
Right we will, we’ll come back to you setting up your own firm, and
R – Later.
Yes, that’s right. Then you had mentioned that you did your City and Guilds training at the technical school.
R - Yes.
Did you serve any other apprenticeship or do any other kind of training besides that?
R – No.
No. You mentioned that in fact you were doing an engineering course were you at Manchester when you got…
R- Municipal engineering.
Oh yes.
R - Yes well that was after I had left the mill.
Yes, I see. You didn’t belong to a Trade Union every did you?
R- No.
What jobs did your brothers and sisters do? I know you have mentioned one or two of them as we have gone along, but perhaps if we can specify them all here.
R – Well, my eldest sister after leaving school became a shop assistant but she had a strong inclination for teaching and so, when the war came, she applied and entered Dudley Training College and qualified, and that was her career from then on.
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Then my next sister, after leaving school, stayed on at home helping with the domestic duties which were considerable with a family. But eventually she took up a nursing career and in which she remained until her retirement. My next brother on leaving school joined a firm
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of wholesale tea merchants, and then he joined the forces in January 1915. My next brother was an apprentice engineer for a period and then left to become an assistant with an ironmongery firm from which he left to join the forces in September 1914.
SCG/10 June 2003
3,656 words.