THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON MARCH THE 9th 1979 AT YORK HOUSE, THE HOME OF THE INFORMANT ON LINKS ROAD, ST ANNES ON SEA. THE INFORMANT IS GEORGE FORRESTER SINGLETON, RETIRED SENIOR PARTNER IN THE FIRM OF G F SINGLETON AND COMPANY, ESTATE AGENTS, OF BLACKBURN. THE INTERVIEWER IS MARY HUNTER.
Now, we were talking about your brother who joined up in 1914.
R – Yes. My youngest brother, after leaving school, became a laboratory assistant at the Blackburn Technical School and eventually he got a job as a junior chemist with a Canadian firm in Trafford Park who made a sugar substitute, I forget the name, it’s a kind of…
(50)
Glucose?
R - Maple syrup something like that. From corn products. Anyway he then joined the forces in January 1915 and became a sergeant in the Royal Engineers in the laboratory at Borden Camp in Hampshire. He also served abroad but after the war he became my assistant when I started on my own account in 1922.
(100)
I see yes.
R - And remained in that profession until he retired.
What work did your father do in the first world war?
R - Well, he continued his business as a machinery merchant you see?
And what about you? Sorry, carry on.
R - No, I already told you what I did see? I was until 1911 was at Airie Entwistle until 1916 and then I joined the forces.
Yes, that's what I meant.
R - Well, during the war of course he was in great demand because new machinery couldn't be obtained and so second hand machinery, when available, was in demand.
(5 min)
So it was quite a good few years of business for him was it?
R – Yes, that’s right, until the slump in 1921 yes. Right?
Yes. I just was going to ask you to actually say what your particular work was. Entwistle’s until 1916 and then you served in the army didn't you?
(150)
R – Yes.
As…
R- Oh I joined, as I say, the Royal Engineers and I eventually managed ... well I wanted a commission and I got the opportunity of going to the Artillery Cadet School at Exeter, and then I transferred to the Heavy Artillery Cadet School at Trowbridge from where I got a commission. And a few weeks after I was sent overseas to France.
Did anyone in the family work on munitions?
R – No.
What jobs, I mean you have mentioned teaching and nursing, what jobs were there for girls and women when you were young?
R -There were jobs in industry, the cotton trade took a large numbers weavers, winders, warpers. The garment making up industry took a large number, were operated sewing machines you know? But professionally the choice was very limited, mostly teaching and nursing.
(200)
What did you think of as being women's work?
R – Well, anything within their capacity as far as I was concerned but males had their line of operations and perhaps they were jealous of what the women could do, if they got the chance. I don’t know beyond that, women weren't expected to do heavy work, not like on the continent. And no, that was the setting 50 or 60 years ago.
Did the first world war make way difference to that?
R - Oh yes. You see, there was a shortage of labour in manufacturing munitions. Ladies came into their chance because there was such a demand and they found they could be trained to operate machine tools and do dirty work and, within limits, handling heavy goods, shells for instance you see? And, they proved
(250)
to the male world that they could do more than the males thought they could. So when it came to the vote there was no argument, they got it on merit, quite rightly so.
(10 min)
How did your family manage in the depression of the 20s.
R- Well we managed with having a determination to give satisfactory service, that was my ambition on my own account. My eldest sister had started her school in 1922, a private school and she likewise had the same ambition. My youngest sister was with a Nursing Home in London. My youngest brother was working with me. The other, one brother was in Australia and
(300)
the other, he tried his hand at several jobs eventually undertaking to acquire, along with a partner, a non-ferrous metal foundry near Altringham at Timperley I think it was, and he was there until he sold out to a larger firm and retired. That’s it.
What can you remember about the general strike of 1926?
R - A lot.
Go on then.
R- It was an attempt by the Trade Unions to strangle the country and it was a development, a political development ware than a financial adventure shall I say. Admitted, conditions of trade were bad, rightly or wrongly we had gone on to the gold standard in 1924 and it well may be that that action had curtailed the trade of the country. But in 1926 there was still the spirit of adventure by the general public. It was only eight years after the war and many of those partaking in the war were again to undertake their survival in industry. By this time there were more motorcars on the road, there were volunteers capable of manning the railway engines and there was a lot of voluntary work. I remember the Government published a newspaper - I'm not quite sure whether I have got a copy left - and ...
What was it called? I have just, I have forgotten …
R - I've just forgotten the name.
Yes, I have too. Was it The Daily Post or ...
R – But, something like that, but, or was it the British Gazette?
Ah, that’s more like it.
R - Well my recollection is that Churchill had to be curbed.
Yes that's right. Yes.
R – That’s my recollection, because he loved adventure, and here was an opportunity to show his, a general ability in manoeuvring and so on. But he was overruled and shall me say wiser counsels prevailed. And the - I don’t know, was it six weeks? I forget now - and then the six weeks loss of wages had caused privations and the women folk had had enough and altogether there was a general collapse of the attempt. It was, as I say, it was a political move and it didn’t do the Trade Union Movement much good. It's still remembered in the Movement and its defeat rather. rankles with some of the rebellious elements in the Union Movements.
(400)(15 min)
Are the history books right when they say that because the Government had warnings, it was one of the things that the Union threatened, that they were able to be sufficiently prepared with things like the organisation for the maintenance of supplies and training up volunteers to man the buses etc. that in fact that was a contributory factor in its failure? Are they, are they right when they say that would you think? (450)
R - Well I couldn't say. It well may be but it's only one factor. The limited income on the domestic household, for so long a period, after a period of bad trade, had I think a more important effect. To my mind it’s very unfortunate that so much stress is put on the Trade Union Movement by the political activities. It’s a long story but the question of responsibility came in and I think it's high time that the Trade Union Movement came to terms with society so that there was an agreed method of deciding the amount of earnings ... I do really.
(500)
Did you hear the latest on the radio this morning? I heard it coming over that the Government and Labour M Ps, a group who got together, are going to suggest via legislation that there is a minimum wage act for a 40 hour week set at £60?
R - Well I didn't hear that but the income of the individual basically depends on the prosperity of the country and unless we get, we restore the position whereby the earning capacity of the nation exceeds its expenditure, the increase in wages or the right to increase in wages is very dim. Now of course, in theory a lot can be said for variations and it's a common expression to say that workers are entitled to a bigger cut of the cake. Well that’s a political expression, and it’s an emotive expression and you hear it on political platforms. But, unless the size of the cake is understood you see it’s really meaningless.
Quite right.
R - I am afraid that democracy as we know it is in danger of
(550)
a collapse, because it has lost the sense of justice. I think I mentioned that
earlier. Now unless a nation in ruled by justice there are inherent dangers of a collapse, because people have a sense of what is known as ‘fair play’, and if it's unfair, whatever we describe it, it leaves an unpleasant feeling which may erupt in various ways. Now there is a danger of democracy being sold to the highest political bidder, a real danger and for the moment we'll assume two political parties. Now the
Labour Party ostensibly promises as much as it possibly can for the benefit of its members and I would say regardless of the real welfare of the nation. So, they are promising more than the nation can afford you see? Now, the Conservatives, they are in a difficult position because they can’t promise much, they daren’t because they know they can't deliver and the danger is that both parties promise more than in reality can be delivered by either of them. So unless the voters are educated to the real financial position of the country and are willing to work accordingly - in other words give value for their services, economic value - then
(600)(25 min)
some day democracy will come to an end. You see, it's like a private income really. Charles Dickens said you know, “Income£1, expenditure 19/6, result, happiness. But it the expenditures are £1-0-6, result misery.”
That's right.
R - Now therein lies a profound truth which can apply to the nation as well as to individuals. Andy this is the tragedy as I see it, there's so many people politically illiterate and don't want to know the truth, they have been brought up to expect, I wouldn't say something for nothing - but to expect all that they want regardless of its effect on the remainder of the nation. And this is as I see it, is the real problem, but unfortunately at my time of life I cannot go on the hustings and proclaim my views.
We started with the General Strike would you believe, that’s what we started with.
R – Yes well now, oh I remember vividly getting lifts in cars, and going to Bolton station for instance and getting out, and then getting a lift from there in a car to Manchester. Fortunately it was in the summer, the weather was good and we got through. And it's, what the enemies of this country - political enemies - who disregard justice between one member of community and another, and there we are. Of course
(650)
you get back to fundamentals, is this a moral world or not? And I believe it is and therefore the moral condition should prevail but if people ignore them then somebody has got to pay the price sometimes themselves unwittingly see, in the course of time. However I hope for the best but I fear the worst.
Oh well, we change the subject then. Can you remember how your spare time activities changed after you started work?
R - Yes my time was limited, I had not the same time for sports or amusement because my hours of work were 53 ½ and then I had night classes so that there’d be not much time left. And it was rather tiring because after a ten hour day, working day, which it was and two hours at night on three nights a week, well that was 12 hours a day on three days in the week. So what spare time had we?
Quite. So, did you ever go to dances?
(700)(30 min)
R – No. My family tried to teach me to dance but I can no more waltz than the man in the moon. It's one of the tragedies of my life.
Oh dear.
R - I can’t. The number of ladies feet I've trodden on is disgraceful.
What is it? You can't co-ordinate steps?
R - I can't, I can’t co-ordinate that’s right.
Oh dear.
R - And yet I am musical enough.
Yes well quite.
R - But somehow. I suppose, if 1 didn’t try I might do it, you see..
That’s quite true actually.
R - I think so.
If you get a real thing of, that you can't dance, and that's it I think.
R- Yes I think ...
Well did you go to the cinema then, or the music hall or the theatre?
R - Well I finally found, mostly found amusement or interest in the Sunday School. We made our own amusements, we took part in our own concerts we took part in our own games, and other social events. And we were at liberty to attend other forms of entertainment and amusement if we wanted but we didn't want, we were more or less fully occupied you see? And I think that’s right, yes, there was always a number, there were theatres we can hardly say we had a music hall in Blackburn. We had three theatres, one definitely noted for theatrical works and another we may say light entertainment, you might call it a musical but it had on what you call light stuff, generally a comedian or a man with a particular qualification. Houdini the escapologist etc. And then you had the small theatre at the cheaper end. Which was
known as a rat pit but a dowdy place.
But as you say, you didn't, it sounds have much time for these things.
R - No we led a full life.
Yes. You continued of course with your church activities after you started work?
R - Oh yes. I was a member of the choir and one night was given up to choir practice.
(750)
Yes. So that’s four nights of the week you were going out.
R- That’s four nights a week.
Yes. And did you take an interest in politics?
R - Yes well, of course that was occasional, just as it cropped up you see? At election time, I didn’t do any work in the meantime you see? Perhaps helped at town council work but my political interests were largely with elections.
Canvassing and the like?
R- Yes.
lf you were to be asked why did you take an interest in politics would you be able to say why?
R - Well, I thought it was part of life, and my father took part in politics and my grandfather, so I followed suit.
Did you take part in or follow any sport?
R – Yes, cricket and football.
And you managed to do that after you started work as well did you?
R - Oh yes. And at the beginning of the football season we teenagers appointed a committee to interview a farmer and fix a rent and to allow us to change in the barn near the field you see? Having done that then we bought goal posts and erected them and we bought corner flags, and a ball and of course a pump to pump the ball up to keep it inflated. And then we marked out the field with a brush and whitewash and then one man was appointed secretary to engage games with other teams and so on. But we subscribed - in the early days it was 6p sometimes to get started you see?
(25 min)(800)
Very enterprising. Presumably you usually had the same field.
R- In most cases, but we couldn't always get it, sometimes somebody would beat us to it you see? And then we had to take the second best and walk a longer distance.
And did you do the same with cricket?
R - Yes. But I was more fond of football than cricket.
Right, last particular section for today I think. Can you tell me where you met your wife?
R - Now then that would be telling wouldn’t it? Well I was first attracted to my wife when I was attending a service at her church, and she was in the choir.
Yes, I can just imagine, go on…
R - This is a frank confession isn't it?
Yes.
R- Well, and then she was a member of the Wesley Guild of her church and I was a member of the Wesley Guild of our church and we had rallies when the various Wesley Guilds got together and then we had places where we’d go on a Saturday afternoon, and then have a place for tea and walks and talks and a few games like rounders and you know.
Yes.
R - Pleasurable afternoons and so it developed.
Where did she live then?
R - In Blackburn.
But it was just a different church, different part of the town?
R- Yes.
Yes I see. How long did you know each other before you got married?
R- Ah well, I knew of her for many years because I knew her brother, they were all older, three of them were older than she, they used to play in different teams whom I played against you see?
Oh I see, yes.
R - So I knew they had a young sister but…
Well shall we say from the moment when you viewed her in the choir.
R - Oh well, yes I would think perhaps five years after something like that.
And when did you get married?
R - 1919 after the war. Oh well that would take oh I must have known her more than that. Well, perhaps five years will do this.
Did she have a job when you got married?
R - Yes she was with her father's business.
And what was that?
R Wholesale grocer. And she had, all her three brothers were in the forces and she went to the office to help her father, and the two of them ran the business until the boys came back.
So, in fact she didn't continue working after you got married?
R - No.
No. How many children have you?
R - Five.
And, when were they born?
R- Eh?
Can you remember?
R - Oh yes. The first was born on, 24th of May 1920, the second – that’s a girl - the second a boy, on the 1st of November 1922, the next was a girl born on 9th October I think 1927.
I think that would be right because that was the same year as mum, so that’d be right, wouldn’t it? Yes. [Helen, the daughter in question, went to school with Mary’s mother I think so this is the connection Mary is making.]
R - Now then. Well then, twin daughters were born on the 7th of May 1931, I think I'm right.
Well done, very good.
R - I'm right on the dates, and I think I'm right on the years....Good.
Well, 1927 is certainly right, I can be a proof to that one.
SCG/10 June 2003
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