THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON NOVEMBER 18TH 1978 AT 13 WHITEHEAD STREET, RAWTENSTALL. THE INFORMANT IS JOHN GREENWOOD, FORMER MANAGER AT SPRING VALE MILL. THE INTERVIEWER IS STANLEY GRAHAM.
Right, John. Some nice quiet simple questions and we'll get through them. How old are you?
R - I'm 69 actually.
Yes. So you were born…
R - Born on August 24th 1909.
Nineteen hundred and nine. Yes. And where were you born?
R - Well, I was born in a street called Green Street which has now been demolished which is within 100 yards of where I'm sitting now. And I've lived in this area within what you might call a quarter of a mile, all me life. Yes.
Yes. Aye, that’s grand is that.
R - I was. born over to me left, and the thing is then we moved down at the bottom of the main road here and then when I got married I moved into a row of terraced houses 200 yards away. Then we moved into another house 100 yards away and from there we've come here. Aye.
Aye, good. How many years did you live in the house that you were born in?
R - Oh, I wouldn't say above six at the most. I can remember moving, I can remember moving, but [I can’t] just say just exactly .. but I was a small child you see.
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Have you any clear memories of the house in Green Street?
R - Oh yes, I have indeed. The thing is it was a two up and two down. When you went in the front door you were immediately in the living room and in it there was of course the old fashioned oven and the fire grate with the boiler at one side and an oven at the other, with the fire in the middle and that's where, like, the main living was done. The back kitchen is where the sink was, and of course in those days the only means of cooking that we had were pans and the fire oven.
Yes. We'll go into that in a lot of detail in a minute or two. Just one or two things that… Can you remember why your family, or do you know why your family made those moves?
R - Well as far as I can gather, my paternal grandmother lived in a street about 400 yards away and I understand me mother and father moved nearer to her, you see. But this was it, but it wasn’t satisfactory. I mean actually the area where we moved to wasn't quite as good as what the one that we left and me mother was very much against it, but of course father had the last word and that was that, because it was his mother you see? So we moved into this area which was actually a worse house that what we were in.
How long did you stop in that second house?
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R - Oh well, now then. I should say about 10 or 12 years. And the point was that father died in that house you see, he died, and those were the days when there were no such things as funeral parlours you know, they used to spend three days under the window when they'd passed on. And I can see now, you know, him being laid out and I had a sister who died in the same house at the age of 22 you see?
Where was your father born John?
R - Oh my father was born in Rawtenstall as far as I know but his family actually came from the Peterborough area you know in Lincolnshire you know, with the industrial revolution. And my mother’s side came from Soham in Cambridgeshire. You know, they came up here, their parents came up here when the industrial revolution was on and they wanted all these workers. They were putting cotton mills up and they came up here. Now me paternal grandmother worked in the cotton mill right from my knowing her style of thing. She was what they call a winder, where they transfer yarn from small packages on to bigger packages. Now me maternal grandmother, she was one of the old type, what they used to call .. they call them midwives today but I don't think she had any qualifications for being called a nurse, but if anybody were having a child she were always there, and at the deliveries you know?
That's it, yes.
R- And me maternal grandfather .. you know all the hills round here are absolutely lined with stone. Well he was a crane driver, a steam crane driver at one of the quarries over the hills. And, well I don't know how, mother and father they got together and they married and that was it, and the thing is they…
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So your mother was born in Rawtenstall actually, but of Lincolnshire, Cambridgeshire parents.
R- Cambridgeshire parents. Well I should think so, I can't just exactly be sure of that because I never heard her mention kind of being born in Cambridge, you see?
Yes, well that’s what I mean, you know that's the thing ...
R - And the same with me father.
We're just, you know, if you don't know you don't know and that's it. How many brothers and sisters did you have?
R - Well there were six of us altogether. There were four sisters and one brother.
Whereabouts did you come in the order?
R - Second.
Second? Can you give me the names of all the brothers and sisters in the order that they were born, you know, including your own?
R- Right, me eldest sister was Lillian, she was the one who died when she was 22, she wouldn’t have died today, she died of pneumonia. Then there was myself and then there was Sarah and then there was Betsy and then there was James, he died in infancy, and Anice, she died within a week of being born.
Anice?
R - Anice, A n i c e. My mother was called Sarah Anice you see, Sarah Anice, and my father were called John Henry.
How many confinements did your mother have?
R - Six.
Six. Yes, that's it aye. You know I mean, you realise in those days it were possible to have, I mean I have one case where there were 11 confinements and four children you know.
R - Oh aye. Well they were all born alive but I mean James died when he was 18 months.
Yes and Anice died within a week?
R Oh aye, she was … aye, very…
What would you, can you hazard any guess at the cause of her death you know?
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R - Oh well, the thing is that… Well James, he died of croup you see. And in those days of course croup was a childhood disease in as much as they you know, when they used to get that it used to be touch and go in any case
That's it yes.
R- You see with there not being the drugs and that we have today. So this is why, and he were a grand lad, I mean, but he just got this croup, it started with a chill and it turned to croup .. he passed out on mother's knee.
How about Anice?
R - Oh well, she was an infant. I can't really tell you as I wouldn't know whether it was ... Let's say she lived…
She never got going.
R - She never really got going no.
Never got going, yes. When you were a child can you remember any relations living in the house with you?
R- No. We always lived on our own. Mind you, I've made up for it since.
Yes. Did the family ever have any lodgers?
R- No. I mean there were, we had never no room for lodgers in as much as you'd two bedrooms and that was that.
Yes. What was your father's job when you were born?
R- Well as far as I can remember me father was always a coal carter. That's the thing in getting the coal from the station, putting it in hundredweight bags, putting them on the lorry and carting them round to the houses and delivering.
So it were domestic deliveries not mill deliveries.
R - Well not wholly. If they were a bit slack on the domestic side of course they used to take coal to the mills.
Yes. Who did he work for?
R - Well a chappie called Jimmy Barrett who was at one time the Mayor of this town. And he worked for him as far as I can remember all his life except during the first world war when of course he was grade III. And from being a coal bagger they put him into stoking a boiler at the generating station. And then of course at the latter stage he had to go, he went into the tank regiment because he had a dicey heart I think. Anyway, as far as I can remember, his condition was a ‘smoker’s heart’ whatever that is, I've never… Aye.
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Smoker's heart ... Aye.
R - But he, he was grade III.
You'd be five years old when the first world war started?
R- Oh yes.
Have you any memories at all of the start of the first world war?
R – Well, I wouldn't say I have a lot of memories about the actual starting of the war, but I've a lot of memories of the war you see in as much as there was rationing and at the beginning there was queues and that sort of thing. For instance, just to give you an example, with father going down to the local station and the main volume of goods being carried an the train he always had advance warning when there was a supply of margarine coming to the Maypole. And one of my earliest recollections is that he came home, you know he dodged home, he’d been down to the station. “Oh, there’s margarine coming to the Maypole!” so he came and told mother. Now me mother sent me sister, who would be seven at the time, down to the Maypole to join the queue. And this would be before half past eight in the morning. And I can remember she said “Now, you go down.” Because she had to work you know. She worked all the time, right up to the time that she became disabled through rheumatism. But she said to me, when she came home to breakfast you know at half past eight. She said “Now you go down and go in the queue while Lillian comes home and has her breakfast.”
That’s it, aye.
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R- And at five year old I went down to the Maypole and stood there and then when my sister had had her breakfast of course, later on she came and we both stood there. We missed school by the way and the thing was of course, the lorry brought this margarine up of course, they carted it all into the Maypole as it was and then when they started opening the boxes they opened the doors at about half past eleven and we had been stood there from, you know, about half past eight.
How old was your dad when he died?
R- 42.
42?
R- 42 yes.
Was that, would you say that that was very young to die? Even then?
R - Oh yes definitely. Because I mean…
What was the cause John?
R - The actual cause what was on the death certificate, this I don't know but I think he finished up with cancer. But he was ill for 18 months you know before he died and I might tell you he’d a very trying period was that. Because me mother had to work and I remember one Christmas in particular mother… When he died, he died on Boxing Day, me mother had to stop off work for three weeks before you know, and I had one sister working half time and there were six of us and that's the only money we had coming in apart from ten shilling he got off what they called Lloyd George you see which was a National Health… But that was it. But you see although he was a coal carter he was a chappie that, and I say this with all respect, neglected himself. In as much as he would get wet through and instead of changing himself when he came in he’d put a good fire on and dry his clothes on his body.
That's it.
R - So you see, and then he used to smoke twist and chew twist and I don't think that did him any good.
How old were you when he died John?
R - Twelve.
Twelve years old, so he died in 1921.
R – Thereabouts.
1921 yes. What was your mother's job before she got married?
R- Well me mother, as far as I can remember, always was a ring-spinner you seep in a cotton mill.
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Yes. Ring-spinning?
R- A ring spinner, yes. And I can give you an early recollection of that, I mean one of my earliest recollections as a child was being got up at five o’clock in the morning you see, and along with me sister, me mother used to take us to an old lady who was commonly known an Snuffy Martha.
Snuffy Martha?
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R- You see, and this was because she took snuff. But she used to take us, and I can remember because it was down the road here, me sister and meself holding hands, Winter and Summer, and she used to take us to Snuffy Martha’s and then she had to go down to the local centre and catch a tram to Acre Mill at Haslingden which is what, three miles away to start at six o’clock in the morning. And we were there, I mean, Martha used to feed us whilst she came home at night at six o'clock and then take us home you see. And I can remember that very vividly.
Yes, and you'd only be about three year old or something like that then. Yes.
R - I'd only be a toddler yes that’s all yes. Aye, I'd only be a toddler and I can remember it very vividly.
Yes. You remember winter's mornings, frosty mornings and that, yes.
R- Oh yes, aye.
And she carried on working outside the home after she was married.
R - Oh yes. In point of fact she continued working right up to, as I say, she was disabled with rheumatism 16 years before she died, and that was the only time she kept off work. But she was a ring spinner all her life. Aye.
How old was she when she died?
R – 68.
And when was that, John?
R- Oh now, let’s see. I’ll have to think back, I can’t just remember the date, about 1952.
1952. And you say that she was disabled for 16 years before that.
R- Oh yes aye.
And who looked after her when she was disabled?
R- Well, yours truly, and me sisters.
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You did. Yes.
R- You see because it was a kind of creeping rheumatism, arthritis and for the last four years of her life she was totally disabled in as much as she couldn't feed herself and then in the last two and a half years she went blind.
So she was disabled really from 1932 till 1952.
R - Well not totally incapacitated you know, I mean…
So that she couldn't work.
R - Oh no, aye that’s right yes.
Aye from 1934 till 1952.
R – Yes.
That’s a long time John.
R- Well this was it you know. I mean this rheumatism, it creeps on gradually. It's not a sudden do. But I mean it was so.
So you’d be 27 when she started to become disabled in 1936, you'd be 27. Now you weren’t married then?
R- No. I didn't get married until 1950.
Yes, so would you say that if your mother hadn’t been disabled, do you think you would have got married?
R- Oh definitely yes. I mean, I had a lady friend but of course you see she couldn’t wait indefinitely and you were torn between two loyalties you see. Always having gone to church and that kind of thing you know, you're brought up to ‘Honour thy father and thy mother.’ style of thing and it was very much emphasized so that you wore torn between the two, getting married and …
Looking after your mother. Yes.
R- Aye. So I looked after my mother and unfortunately, I realise it now of course, it was a mistake not to get married. But finally I did get married three years before she died.
That’s interesting John. Can we talk a bit more about that? Why, when you say it was a mistake, in what way?
R- Well, let's say, I mean 40 years of age to get married and to think of starting a family, is a bit off. And I mean like the thing is I firmly believe that every child has a right to be well born you see. I mean… And the thing was at 40, mind you I mean my wife, she was very understanding in as much as, you know she was younger than me by about 10 years.
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Yes. Do you think you could have made as good a job of looking after your mother because evidently you must have done. I mean you must have made a good job of it . I mean could you have made as good a job if you had been married?
R- Well I shouldn't think so because .. let’s say this you see. I mean for years I used to, we used to have what they call a bed chair and I used to sleep in the same room as her in as much as whatever she wanted, if she wanted a drink, if she wanted easing or the other human functions, I used to do all the lifting. You see the couldn't stand up, she couldn’t help herself in any shape or form, so that had I been married, you see…
It would have been a terrible strain on your marriage for a start off.
R- Well it was.
How about work? You'd, because obviously you'd have to go to work.
R- Oh yes, well, what I used to do you see, I used to attend to her in the morning. And then in the latter years of course it came to the point where one of my sisters had to stay at home with her you see and I used to attend to her in the morning and you know, fit her up for the day. I mean because there were no such thing as district nurses coming round then. And then, if it was possible, I used to come home at dinner time you see. And certainly as soon as I came in at night she’d be waiting to be attended to. And then of course, well I went out very little actually because, as I say, if she wanted to be lifted out of bed you know, and this kind of thing, my sisters couldn’t do it.
Looking back John, do you regret doing what you did?
R- Oh not at all, oh not at all. In as much as the thing is that I can honestly say that I did my duty. Oh no, I’ve no regrets at all. It gave me, shall I say, a far greater insight into feeling humanity towards anybody that’s ill than ever I could have had if I had gone through life without any illness or attending to anybody.
I'm sure it must have done.
R- You see I mean, I feel for anyone that’s ill. Aye.
Yes, right, we’ll leave that alone for a bit, we’ll probably come back to it later on. But I find that … It’s creditable to say the least John. Did any of the family, you know, any of your brothers and sisters leave the Rawtenstall area before 1930?
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R- No. We’ve been native bred and born and we’re still all here. Well, I mean the two who are still alive, they are still here, yes.
Yes. Out of the houses that you lived in as a child, which one do you, remember best?
R- Oh well, 1 remember they the one that we moved into.
From Green Street?
R – Well, the one that, shall I say, strikes me most is possibly the one… Because when we were married we went living with the wife’s mother, and then I got a house of me own and we bought it.
Yes. But I mean when you were a child.
R- Oh, when I was a child?
Yes when you were a child you know?
R- Oh the house that ...
You know, which one do you remember best?
R- It was in what we call Barlass Street.
Yes. That's the one that you moved into from Green Street is it?
R – No. We moved into a place called 'The Fold’ and as I said earlier, this to my mind was worst than the one in Green Street. Now in Barlass Street of course you see you had a parlour, a kitchen, an out kitchen, two bedrooms and an attic.
Yes. What year, when did you move. Now you were at Green Street for about six years.
R- Yes.
And then you moved to The Fold. And how long were you at The Fold?
R- About 12 years, let's see now, I would be eighteen, aye, happen about 12 years.
Yes. Well let’s talk about Green Street first, and then we'll try them all. Green Street first, how many bedrooms did it have?
R- Two.
And what other rooms were there?
R- There was nothing only what you might call the living room, and then a kitchen.
Yes so it was like a two up and two down.
R- Two down, that's it.
Was there a proper staircase?
R- Oh yes, there was a proper staircase.
Can you remember any of the furniture?
R- Well again, way back in the archives I can remember like we had a fairly decent house of furniture, at least I thought so. And then all of a sudden it went very austere you see. And, well I should say that I was about 30 before I ever found out why. And it seems father had ideas of going into business on his own which he did, you see. The trouble was
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he was too generous, in as much as he left that much tick, he was made bankrupt and we were sold up. Now this is the story that I heard. As I say I was too small to remember the details but I can remember like, we used to have a sideboard and that kind of thing and we finished up with just a chest of drawers you know I mean and that's very vague.
Yes. Did you, you wouldn't have a parlour there, you'd have a living room and a kitchen and that's it, yes?
R- Oh no. Aye that was it, yes.
And you'd have your meals in the living room.
Oh ye, aye.
Yes. And where did your mother do the cooking?
R - Well in the living room, because that was where the fire grate was.
That was where the fire grate was.
R- You see, and the oven and the boiler.
And where did she do the washing?
Well, depending, again, mainly in the living room because the hot water was there, you know there in a side boiler
Side boiler ...
R - And the fire was there.
Yes.
R- And you know the thing in that the fire grate just let me think, oh no it hadn't, not there, but you used to have a great big pan, a washing pan, two handled pan that she used to put on the fire you see with water in you see for the washing. So I mean instead of carrying all the hot water into the kitchen, at times she used to do the hot water in the kitchen because the sink was there but mind you, it was only a stone slab, only a stone slab you know with a drainer in.
Yes. That's it yes. And you wouldn't have a bathroom?
R- Oh no, no.
Where did you have a bath?
R- Always in front of the fire.
That's it, what night?
R- Well, Friday night was always bath night for the kids, one after the other.
John, every time I ask that question I know what the answer’s going to be! Everybody had a bath on Friday night.
R- Aye well, let's say this, there was a routine at our house. I mean me mother had, she had a routine that she really couldn't get away from. Because you see she used to bake her own bread. And I mean at Monday night, and mind you this is after working from six in the morning until half past five and then bringing the kids home and giving us our tea. On the Monday night she used to wash you see. And then at Tuesday night she used to bake bread. Now, Wednesday night she used to iron, and it was a cast iron, the old flat iron you know, you'd to get your heaters in the fire and then put them in the box. And then at Thursday was cleaning up night you see and then Friday it was bath night for the kids. And then at Saturday afternoon you see, after she’d done her bits of cleaning up she might take us to the market which was an event see. From just up here down to the market which was an event on Saturday. Now Sunday of course you had your breakfast and then it used to be the big day, potato pie and rice pudding for dinner you see. And then she'd bake bread as well and oven bottom muffins. Oven bottom muffins with butter on, sometimes a tin of pineapple chunks, that was Sunday tea. Aye. Mind you she used to make currant cake and apple pies you know but this was, Sunday was the highlight for feeding because you can quite see that coming home at night, you know. Well, as I say…
Yes. Well we will do a lot on food later. Was the, the lavatory, now where was it?
R- Well you went through the back door, you went across a little landing, down some steps and the lavatories were about 20 yards away.
Yes. And were they water closets or dry?
R - Oh they were dry.
Yes. Night soil man?
R - Oh no, I beg your pardon, no, they were tippler type.
Tipplers? Aye that's it.
R – Aye, tipplers, yes.
And the house had piped water?
R- Oh yes, it had piped water and lamps.
And gas you mean?
R – Lamps, oil lamps.
Oil lamps. Aye. What sort of lamps were they, were they wicks or mantles?
R- Oh no they were wicks. Aye, and candles of course. You see candles for upstairs and, but the lamp was always set in the middle of the table and they used to fill it with paraffin you know?
Yes. And did you have a stair carpet?
R - Oh no.
No. Were they stone or wood steps?
R- Stone.
Stone steps aye. Can you remember any of the neighbours having a stair carpet?
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R – No, nobody had a stair carpet. In point of fact they hadn't carpets on the floor because we used to have sand.
Yes, that’s it.
R - We used to have sand on the floor and then we’d sweep it up and then at Friday night, no on Saturday we always put the hearthrug down and we used to have a peg rug.
That's it.
R- And that was put down at Saturday.
And it’d be took up Sunday night.
R - And took up, took up at Sunday night. Yes, aye.
That’s it. Do you know, that's something that people can't get hold of nowadays. You know yourself, everybody has everything now and they cannot understand somebody having to make their own hearthrug and only having it down at week ends.
R- Well, the thing is, I can remember some of the big girls as we used to think they were, when we lived over here, they used to get sandstone, you know plenty of stone and they'd chop it up you know with another stone and then they'd go round selling it, pennies and twopences to sand the floor. Oh aye, you used to sand the floor.
[John is illustrating something that few people realise today. Ordinary sand, because it is water worn, has rounded edges and if scattered on the floor is actually slippy and won’t stay where it is scattered. Crushed stone has sharp edges, is not slippy and scours the flags when you walk on it. Much of the wear noted on stone floors and doorsteps is caused not simply by wear, but by the scouring action of sharp sand on the floor.]
Yes that’s it. So they were flag floors downstairs?
R- Oh yes, aye, they were all flag floors, generally wood upstairs of course.
That's its aye. Yes. Did you have curtains or blinds?
R- Oh we had blinds.
Yes, those with the spring or the paper ...
R- Paper blinds. Paper blinds, you pulled it up with a string.
That's it yes. Any curtains.
R- Not beyond, oh lace curtains. Oh aye, she used to have lace curtains.
How about any other sort of curtain, like a bigger curtain. Similar to the curtains what you've got here.
R – Well, they used to have them lace curtains similar to those you know? Or on the other hand you just had one that went half way like what you see, like half way across. Aye.
Yes that's it. Did the neighbours have curtains?
R - Oh yes, oh aye, I means they all had curtains.
You can’t remember anybody not having curtains?
R - Let me think now. No I can’t say that I did no.
How about donkey stones?
R- Oh aye. Well the thing is you knows you used to save your rags and when the rag gatherer come round you got donkey stones or salt.
Yes. Or salt?
R - Or salt. Oh aye, they ...
One thing John, that salt, what sort of salt was it?
R- Rock .. it was
Like block salt.
R - Block salt you know, happen about two foot by about six inches square.
Aye?
R- And one chappie in particular that I remember, they used to call him Salt Sammy, and he used to have a barrow that he trundled. And he had an old saw. He’d cut you a chunk off, you brought him some rags and he’d get this saw and sawed a chunk off this block of salty and give it you. Aye.
Aye. I've never come across that before John. I've come across donkey stones but not salt.
R- Oh yes. Oh aye it, well it used to be salt or donkey stone.
Yes, when you got your donkey stone, you tell me what you did with it.
R - Oh well, let's say this the hearthstone in the front, you know under the fireplace was always donkey stoned.
Yes. What colour?
R - Well, my mother always went for whitey she wasn't one for cream. And you always used to stone your step of course, your door step.
How about the kerb stone?
R – No, we didn't do the kerb stone but you always used to swill your flags you know. But, 1 mean, they, every time you wiped your door step you’d give it a lick of donkey stone.
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Aye, just round the edges. Aye.
R – Yes, oh aye.
How was the was… Oh but you told me, the house was lit by the oil lamps and candles upstairs.
R- Oil lamp, yes.
When can you first remember having electric light?
R- Oh well now, this was in Barlass Street. And the thing is that I can’t remember what year it was, but I know at that time it was coming in that they'd put you electric in for a pound a light. You see, with a pound a light. And I know that we had seven lights put in this house in Barlass Street which as I say it had two bedrooms and an attic, an out kitchen, a kitchen, what you might call a dining room and a lounge.
Yes. That’d be marvellous wouldn't it, when you got electric lighting?
R - Oh yes it was indeed.
When did you first have gas light?
R- Ah well, now then, we had gas light .. again, the house in Barlass Street, when we moved in had gas but the house in The Fold had lamps and candles. Aye.
Yes, that’s it yes. How about, were they fishtail burners or were they incandescent mantles at Barlass Street?
R - Incandescent mantles. Aye, there were no fishtails. No.
No. How about getting rid of the household rubbish, what happened to the household rubbish.
R- We used to put it in the dustbin. And of course the Corporation came round every week and emptied your dust bin.
Yes, so it was a dust bin. How about ash pits?
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R - Oh well, we never had an ash pit but me grandma had an ash pit. And it was like a communal place where everybody threw their rubbish. And then again the Corporation used to come round and clear it out, you know, when it got full.
But am I right in saying John, that most stuff was burnt on the fire?
R - Oh you burnt as much an you could. Well, let's face I mean the thing is that your old paper, you always used to use that for kindling and wood. You know I mean, you used to go round scrounging bits of wood and chopping them up. I mean orange boxes, when oranges used to come in boxes with three compartments in, you used to get an orange box. I mean I've broke up many a hundred but I used to like apple boxes best because they split easiest. But this was like mainly my job, specially with a blunt axe. And oh aye, I mean even in Barlass Street we had firewood, and I used to, in the cellar, there was a cellar down there. There were recesses in, you know, set back along the passage of the cellar, recesses. And we used to keep one of them specially piled up with kindling wood. You know I used to have a session breaking it up.
Yes. Who used to light the fire John?
R - Well now then, that's a bit of a, it presents a bit of a poser in as much as I would say who was up first. But when we were all going out to work we never lit a fire until we came home at night. You see we were all going out to work. But even when were going to the school we never had a fire you see although we had a fire guard, me mother never lit a fire. And well, what used to happen was that as you get older, of course you could light a fire. I mean when you got up to ten or something like that you could be responsible. Well in point of fact we used to be because although we hadn’t left school we used to clean up you know. I mean, we used to all do what we call mop round. You know, that was mop the hall floor, flag floors you know and then we used to… Well I know, I can remember it being my job to blacklead all this grate.
That's it.
R – But like as for lighting fires, I mean from the age of eight I took a paper round you know. So like, as we used to go out I used to go out at ten past six in the morning and if I was lucky there was a fire in when I came back at half past seven you see, so I fancy my mother lit it mainly. Aye.
How did your mother do the washing?
R- Oh well, yes. That was the rubbing board and the dolly stick, posser.
That's it.
R- Aye, I mean .. What used to happen, she used to get her hot water and put it in this zinc tub.
Yes. Dolly tub?
R- Aye, t'dolly tub, and then of course she used to put her, they used to call it dry soap then. You seep they call it detergent today but it were dry soap.
What sort were it, can you remember what she used to put in.
R- Oh well it used to be, there used to be Compo and Rinso. Now Rinso has been going donkeys years, and then there were .. oh, what was the other one called? There was Rinso .. Compo .. I've forgotten what the other one was called but it was…
Acdo was it?
R- Oh no, Acdo wasn’t thought of then. It was a local compound, and I’ll tell you what sort of soap she always used, she used to use Dr Lovelace’s made in Accrington.
That's it. Aye that's it. Lovelace’s soap aye.
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R- And then what she used to do you know, she put her, used to put her clothes to steep while we were having our tea you know? As soon as she got enough hot water that was it and then of course she used to poss them. Of course it used to be my job as I got bigger to poss them you know whilst she was doing something else. And then she’d rub them. Well the girls then used to do a little bit of hand washing you see. And we used to have a big baking mug, about what, nearly a yard across, earthenware, glazed on the inside. Well the girls would happen be doing a bit in the sink, on the sink you know, the stone sink, while the old dolly tub and what is it were going. And then we had one of those big, upright mangles, you know, where you have a wheel at the top and you used to put the pressure on the springs on. Then you
used, I used to have to turn it, two hands you know, I can remember doing
all this of course. I mean the thing is in those days in the working class families, lads were as domesticated as the girls.
Yes well, they had to be. Yes.
R – We all had to ... pig in as we say.
And she'd do her washing once a week obviously. And how long did it take her to do the washing, John?
R- Well, it just depends, it just depended. I mean she was only human and if she had an off day she wouldn't do so many. And then if it were bedding week, you know she'd skip it a week but I shall say that to do the washing, oh it took all out of two to two and a half hours.
That's just to do the washing itself. That's it.
R - That's to do the washing. You see, because you used to, we used to have lines strung across the kitchen you know? Pieces of rope and she used to hang them on there to dry. And then ...
Did she ever dry, she'd dry them outside would she? Had she a line outside?
R – Well there was a drying outside, but with working all day you see and at night .. she could hang them out a bit in summer time at night but in winter time she couldn't hang them out.
Yes. That's it, aye.
R - You see, because 1 mean it were, it were dark you see?
Yes. And she ironed with a box iron?
R- Oh yes.
What do you remember most clearly about washing day?
R- Oh well ... Most clearly about washing day, it's a good question is that in as much an it used to be a day I didn’t like because there were water all over the place and then again you know, you couldn’t play ...
What was dinner like on washing day? Were it different than other days?
R - Oh well. Well I mean, meals, they were catch as catch can most days. If you had any meat left from Sunday.
Resurrections.
R – Aye, you had that. But I mean there were never no question of having a cooked meal. I mean it’d .. let's see .. I really don’t know just what we lived off in those days.
How did your mother clean the house?
R - Well let's say this, that she used to start upstairs. And in those days you know beds were about 18" to 2ft off, off the floor. And I know it were my job mainly to crawl under the beds with a hand brush and then every so often of course the beds were pulled out and it was all mopped you see. And how, it was mainly brushing and mopping and dusting, clean the windows you know? But downstairs of course
it was the old mop, the old open bucket. And we used to mop it as I say, mop round. And that was the main thing, and the scrubbing brush of course.
Yes. Was there any piece of furniture that she paid special attention to?
R- Not really, because we never had any particular pieces that were of any merit that I could remember. No.
And of course you and your brothers and sisters, you'd do, you had your jobs round the house like as you've said sweeping under the beds and possing and all the rest of it.
R - Oh yes ... Oh aye .. Well, I used to have to chop wood and…
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With you being one of the older children did you have to help the younger ones with dressing, or eating or anything like that?
R - Oh well let’s say this, you grew up as a family and of course you took your part in it. Oh it used to be a case of aye, looking after them. Oh aye.
Yes that's it aye. And did you do any jobs for the family outside the house like running errands or gardening or owt like that?
R- Oh I used to take the papers morning and night, oh aye. But never like running errands for neighbours or anything like that. But, no, I wouldn’t say so, like we never did any, well there were no gardens and there were no ground for gardens or anything like that because the houses were all huddled together. But I used to take the papers and that was as far as it went. I mean I used to get up at six o'clock in the morning and many a time if the trains were late, say it was foggy or anything like that, I'd nearly been late for school, gone without breakfast.
What were the local papers John? And the papers that you were delivering you know?
R - Well, there used to be the Daily Despatch, that was one of Hulton’s and then there was the Sketch and of course there was the Manchester Guardian, for the elite occasionally the Times. There were the Daily News, see that was another one and then the, oh there was the Sporting Chronicle, Sporting Chronicle and then the that were the main dailies. Well there was the Evening Chronicle and there was the Evening News and I can remember the, no, it were the Northern Daily, I can remember that starting up. Because it started up when they put them on the streets you know, on the … they used to have lads going round with them you know shouting and touting in the street, because I know the chappie I worked for he was very annoyed about it because they were selling this like local paper in front of his door, his shop door. And then of course they came to an agreement and it was incorporated then into the ordinary run of the mill shop you see, and they took the lads off the streets. Aye, but those were the main ones, the Guardian of course went to the better end and the Times but there were a lot of, there used to be a lot of comics you know, Comic Cuts and Tiger Tim’s and then there wore Film Fun and Film Weekly. There used to be Rainbow and Butterfly, and then as you got a bit bigger you know you got on to the Gem and Magnet, and the Adventure and Rover and the Wizard [and Hotspur] and these were the kind of things you know.
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