THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON DECEMBER 2ND 1978 AT 13 WHITEHEAD STREET, RAWTENSTALL. THE INFORMANT IS JOHN GREENWOOD, FORMER MANAGER AT SPRING VALE MILL. THE INTERVIEWER IS STANLEY GRAHAM.
I'm just having a bit of difficulty with this tape, because John's being a bit obstreperous this morning! Now then John, we'll carry straight on with where we finished the other day and if you remember we were talking about food. So what did you have for Christmas dinner.
R- Well it varied. Usually we had fowl of some kind, and that was the main item and when funds permitted, Christmas pudding. Of course the point was that in them days mother used to prepare Christmas puddings you know, put them in a basin covered with a cloth and keep them for weeks and weeks you see? And of course that always come out at Christmas lunch you see? But I mean as for anything extraordinary, like soup was an unknown item. I mean you just sat down to the main course and then you had your sweet and of course you got mince pies and biscuits. Providing that, of course, we had the means to get it. We didn't always have the means to get it.
Can you remember any bad Christmases John?
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R- I can indeed! One in particular which I mentioned to you before. This was when my father was ill and there were four children in the house and me mother had to come off work with him and the only money we had was the money that our sister, who was working half time brought in. She was working half time as it was in them days. She was half a day in school and half a day at work. And the only money we had coming in was father’s ten shillings from National Health and the little bit my sister earned. And with six mouths to feed I mean, it was a very bleak outlook I can tell you. And I mean the thing was that at that time I was taking papers. I had a paper round morning and night. It was the custom, well, people used to give you little Christmas gifts for taking their papers, everybody expects service nowadays. But that particular night on the night round, I knocked at every door and wished them Merry Christmas. And quite honestly people were in those days not quite as affluent as they are today. Anyhow I did fairly well with not being cheeky, which is not my nature, and I took this money to me mother.
And then she went out and bought some shin beef and a rabbit and a few oranges and apples. And then she said to me, I can remember it now, did I mind if she bought a bit of something for the younger children if there was any money left? I said I didn’t mind. I was about twelve at the time so I wasn’t very old. So she went out and spent it and that day of course it was rabbit pie for dinner and that was it. And father died that night actually, just turned midnight he died. But I’ve never forgotten that.
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And that was at Christmas?
R - That was actually on Christmas Eve.
Now you were twelve year old when that happened. Now I mean, obviously, I find that a very touching little story and all the rest of it. I say touching, but you know that’s the sort of thing that makes the world go round. But it seems to me that you were acting very responsibly for a twelve year old. Now would you say that the conditions that you were reared in, obviously short of money and whatever you had you had to work for, did it bring, for want of a better way of saying it, an adult frame of mind earlier than children nowadays. In other words do you think that you were more adult at twelve years old than a child would be now?
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R- Oh yes without a doubt. Because when you think that both mother and father are out to work and you had younger brothers and sisters, you had to accept the responsibility for looking after them like. In the interim period before me mother came home from work. And of course, taking them to school and then home again. And then again, it was a facet of family life that when we came home from school we did the washing up and such chores as we were able to, ever since I could remember. Because I had a sister older than me and she used to look after me mainly until the others came on the scene and then of course she adopted the role of little mother in between mother being at work.
That's it. Yes.
R- But we always did what we could in the house, like washing up and you know, mopping the door step. You'd to keep your door step clean in spite of everything.
That's it. No matter what else happened, the door stop had to be clean.
R - Oh yes. And the window bottoms of course. You used to put this rubbing stone on.
Aye, donkey stone, aye. What were your favourite foods when you were a lad John?
R - Well, I never had any favourite food, it was a case of getting what you could in the house. It was very rare you were able to pick and choose. And I mean if mother bought something for dinner that was it. There was no saying “Well I don't want this.” Or “I don’t want that.”
That's it.
R - You had to have what you were given. But I mean, special concessions you know, occasionally. Say when me mother used to make apple pies as I've told you before and that kind of thing. They didn’t use to last long you see?
No. I can well believe that John. And do you know, one of the things in connection with people living such affluent lives nowadays. Now, I have often said that I think one of the finest things that could happen is for wartime rationing to come back for three months. I think it would be a fine thing for the country. They wouldn't like it but I think it’d be a fine thing.
R- Well, you have a point there because, let's face it, I mean people do eat far more than they ever need to.
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And they waste far more.
R - Well, I was going to say, the variety of food is such that they only have a little bit of each course and then the other is thrown away.
Yes. If things were really bad, you know, if you were you know… If you were just in a bad period what would be the sort of things that you'd eat then if you were really hard up.
R - Well ...
In other words, what was the level that you got down to?
R- Well, it’s rather a difficult one is that because I mean, there was always bread and jam. But again you see, as I’ve told you, their were times when it was either bread or butter, but not butter and jam you see, which today, I mean. you wouldn’t, well I don't anyway, if I'm having toast I want butter and marmalade, you see? But this was the way it was. But as I say, as regards food we more or less had to have what we were given. The odd occasion when say you went to a party or something like that. If you were lucky enough to he invited. For instance, let me give you an example. When 1 went into the mill, this particular firm, every year they used to give the employees a dance. It was kind of the highlight of the working year was this, they used to have a dance and of course there was a buffet there. Well, I mean to say, when you used
to see all this food and that kind of thing you used to go to town. But even then, I'm speaking now up to about the age of 17, of course we went into the mill at 14 you know. But of course as we got a bit older and more money coming in, we were able to vary our own routine diet more than what we had when we were really put to. Mind you, let me say that I don't think we
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were what you might call the every day run of the mill family. I mean for instance if the father was a tradesman like a plumber or a joiner or something like that, of course they got more money for their wages. But with us of course, I mean it didn’t work. So of course, your diet varied according to the means. You used to make a special effort as I say like at Christmas when we had the money. We used to buy dates and nuts and raisins and oranges and apples. But normally we’d have oranges but you wouldn’t have nuts and dates.
One of the things I’ve come across is the fact that at that time a lot of people, well I say a lot of people, there were people whose diet was so bad that they could be said to have been suffering from malnutrition and you got things like Rickets and things like that. For instance now, when I see somebody aged over say 60, and they have bandy legs I automatically think of Ernie Roberts the tackler at Barlick, because he has bandy legs and that was caused by the fact that they were very badly fed when they were children. And he said something to me one day, He said “You know, None of Nutters ever had bandy legs!” Well, they were mill owners.
R- No, aye no.
And you know it's a very telling comment. Do you think that you actually suffered because of your diet, did your health suffer at all?
R - Oh yes. I mean as a child I can remember having such things as boils and of course it used to be quite common to go down the street and see children with spots on their lips you know, scabs and in point of fact there was a local chemist who made an ointment and it was quits common for people to go down to Lawrence Lord and get some Number 9 ointment, it’ll clear them up. But actually, while it might have cleared the spots up it didn’t clear the cause of the spot you see? Oh yes, it used to be quite common to see people with spots and that on their lips. Even at school; this used to happen you know.
How about teeth John?
R- Oh teeth. Well you’d go to the bottom of the street here, there are two old houses
just across the road, 1749 (?), and there used to be one chap there by the name of John Willie Booth.
Good Lancashire name!
R- They used to call him the Tanner Ripper see? You'd go there with a tooth ache, his wife would hold you in the chair, and he’d take the tooth out for sixpence, no anaesthetic or anything like that. [I had exactly the same treatment in Barnoldswick, including the wife holding my head, in the mid 1960s.] They used to call him the Tanner Ripper. And he lived in that house there. Well, teeth of course, the thing was that until you got more adult… Well as far as I was personally concerned it wasn’t until I started taking up a little bit of physical culture and this kind of thing, which I used to do and still do, that such things as like teeth and various other health thing were taken into consideration. For instance, for years, I’ve never eaten anything except brown bread. And this was one of the things that stemmed from taking up this physical culture. But of course into keeping your teeth clean and other bodily arrangements and it went on from there. One of the things we used fro cleaning teeth was soot and salt, that was the poor man’s toothpaste. We used to get soot from the back of the fire, the fine soot of course and mix it with salt and clean your teeth with that. And I might say it polished your teeth up as well as, if not better than a lot of these so-called concoctions we use today.
Yes, I’ve heard that before. Did you use a toothbrush John? Yes? Fairly affluent, a toothbrush!
R- Oh yes, you used a toothbrush. Before that you used a bit of rag, just get it damp, dip it into the salt and soot and rub your teeth round and that sort of thing. And then of course you bought a toothbrush and that were it.
Did your dad come home for all his meals?
R- Yes. I mean with being a coal carter locally. And of course the stables were only about 300 yards away from where we lived in any case. He came home to all his meals. Irregular you know, in as much as if they had a late train, they'd so many loads of coal to get out during the day and if they were behind schedule he’d be half an hour, even an hour late for his dinner you see.
Which’d make it hard for your mother.
R- Well the thing was, with mother working, it was nearly always a cold dinner you know.
Yes, that’s it aye. Did he always have the same food as the rest of you or did he have something special?
R - Oh no, well, he used to get the little tit-bits you see. I mean in as much as he had to keep his strength up to keep him working. But no, he used to get like extra tit-bits that we couldn't afford. For instance I he’d have a piece of steak when we wouldn’t you see. I mean he used to have the little bits of extra. Whereas with us going to school we didn’t need extra sustenance, we did actually but we didn’t get it, let’s put it that way. But like for instance, when mother baked or if she bought something where we could all join at it he had the same as us. But I can remember the times when he used to have that little bit of something extra.
Did your mother ever go short to feed the rest of you?
R- Oh undoubtedly, undoubtedly. The thing was that I honestly thought that through personal neglect, I mean me mother contracted rheumatism at what was a fairly early age you see. But yes, I’m sure she did, I'm sure she did. Aye. I mean father came first and then the children after.
Did she normally eat her meals with you?
R- Yes, aye. We all ate together, yes. And you used to stand at the table in those days, there wasn’t enough chairs to go round. Aye.
That’s it aye. That’s something I’ve come across in Barnoldswick and a lot of people don't believe this but up to about 1925 it was quite common for children never to sit at the table from when they came out of their high chair until they started work.
R- That's true, yes.
Yes. Was that the same with you?
R- Oh yes. We used to stand at the table, yes.
Yes. Yes well, we'll come on to table manners and things like that, that's a subject all of its own. Who usually did the shopping for the family, John?
R- Oh me mother. Except that when we were old enough she used to send us on errands and things like that. I mean from being about maybe seven or eight you did errands in as much as like, going for the meat, going to the greengrocers, go down to the market and get this you see. And of course the thing is that me mother hadn't a lot of time to go you know on shopping expeditions like it is today where Saturday morning is devoted to going and buying in, going round the market and it’s a semi-outing today, is to go shopping. And I mean they don’t think anything about being out shopping for two or three hours, because there is so much variety and so much to see whereas in those days you used to get a list. And another thing, in those days we used to have what we called a ‘shop’, in as much as we went to one place for our groceries. Mother would write a list out and we’d take it down to the grocers and he would make it up. Well you don’t get a lot of that nowadays, I mean with supermarkets and what have you. You go round and select your own.
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Yes, that’s it.
R- But in those days you know, the small grocer particularly, or even the greengrocer, you used to have one shop where you went week after week after week,
Yes, funnily enough, my wife still shops like that. I think it’s a good way to shop really. But how often did, with you saying that, did your mother like having one good do during the week or how?
R- Oh yes, always on a Friday.
Fridays yes.
R- Friday or Saturday morning you see if they got paid at Friday. You know she'd pay the shop bills, we used to pay from week to week you see?
That's it, yes. Where did she get her vegetables John?
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R- Well, at the most convenient place. Sometimes on the market. Of course, you see, the market being handy. In point of fact you see you had a greater selection on the market say than on the street where [you went] to one shop, but we used to go anywhere.
Yes. How about meat.
R- Again we used to have like one butcher in a way but at the same time you know that people are a bit fickle, in as much as if she sent us for some meaty and the chappie gave us a lot of fat which is a thing we don’t like, and we don't like to this day, she wouldn't send us there again. She’d send us somewhere where she thought that children wouldn't be taken advantage of.
Then you got your groceries at one shop. Which shop did you get your groceries at? Which were the shop?
R- Well if we went to a private grocer he was called Tommy Taylor. And he, mind you in those days in the shopping street in Bank Street there would be about, what, seven or eight, probably more, grocers, whereas today I think there’s one.
How about the Co-op?
R- Well she joined the Co-op. Well we were grown up anyway, you see? And she didn't join the blue Co-op, she joined the Red Co-op, what were the difference I really don't know except they were different societies in this town.
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Aye, yes.
R- That big derelict building, that big derelict building in the bottom of the street, now that was one of the Co-ops. I think it were the Blue Co-op and they built that building and it used to be, really before my time, it used to be a kind of place where there wee shops and they used to have a concert hall you know, magic lantern and all this kind of thing, all in one building. But beside that there were two more, there were the Coal Terrace and then there were what they used to call the blue Co-op. Mind you they all had branches scattered about.
I don’t think I’ve ever come across that before John, two Co-ops. You know, two different Co-ops in one town.
R- There were two Co-ops here up to what, 15 years ago.
There you are.
R – And two distinct…
Yes, I understand you.
R- You know, Co-ops. There was Rawtenstall Co-operative Society and the other was Cloughfold Co-operative. Well we used to go to Cloughfold because they paid a bit more divi than Rawtenstall you see.
That’s it, a bit better divi, aye. Would you say there was any difference in the prices, you know the quality, between, like street corner shops in Bank Street and what they were down in the middle of town?
R- Well I think sometimes that the quality was, I don’t think there was any difference in quality but sometimes the prices were that little bit cheaper. And then when we went to the Co-op of course, you know…
Cheaper in the town or…
R- At the Co-op, the Co-op.
Yes, aye.
R- You see, and then again the thing was that, every quarter you know you used to get your divi you see. And the thing is that that used to be very acceptable at times, particularly say at Christmas.
How much did they use to pay out?
R- Oh, it got up to what was it in those days, half a crown in the pound you see which was quite an item.
Yes. Oh aye, in Earby they once got up to the magnificent figure of three shilling in the pound which must have been marvellous you know.
R- Oh yes. Well the, the Blue Co used to pay two shillings, you see, and then the Coal Terrace used to pay two and six, you see and of course you see when you went there for your clothes and that kind of thing. And as I say, it used to be quite an item did this divi, it were like an extra wage in one week.
Yes. The ordinary grocer shop that you went to regularly, did they as a matter of course, would they give credit?
R- Well, there used to he a lot of this on the slate at one time but as far as we were concerned, as I say me mother used to go and pay once a week, but, she never…
How did the system work John, if you were, if you were working on the slate. How did the system work.
R- Well I really can't tell you a lot about that, but I mean, up to recent times I do know one family who have been in the shop, like a little shop where we get our bread, and they've come in, “Take five pounds off that.” and that being a bill. And I mean, knowing the family personally I know that they went to this shop, got what they wanted when they wanted. And then of course you see, the thing is that… I mean five pounds, and there were four in this particular family, it was quite an item you see.
Yes. How about pawnshops, John?
R- Oh yes, aye. Well there used to be two pawnshops. There was one chappie called Herbert Catlow and he lived not far from where we lived and us lads we used to rag him unmercifully, in as much as we'd knock at his door and run away you know and all that kind of lark. But the pawnshop, and then there was another, Foster's they were called and they used to do thriving business. Of course you see, Monday was always the busiest day, they spent up at week end and they'd take the Sunday suit in to pawn you see, to raise money for during the week. And then of course they'd get it out at Friday when they got the wages. But, OK it used to be quite a thriving business and it…
What do you yourself think about the pawnshop system, like do you think it was ...
R- Well, you see there's one aspect of life that you haven’t mentioned and that is unemployment. And I mean ...
Yes well we get, do you know we do get, but anyway that’s right don't ...
R - But short time working was quite common in those days of course and then .. the point would be that if you were working a week and stopped a week, the week that you were working, actually was the worse week because you had no wage.
That's right.
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R- So that they used to take their clothes in to pawn or whatever their valuables and then when they got a wage they used to get them out again if they could afford it. But you used to be able to leave them, was it six months? And then if you didn't redeem them in six months time, of course, they were sold.
Yea, that's it, forfeited pledge.
R- Yes, forfeited pledge.
That's it aye. What were the rate they charged, can you remember?
R- I can't really tell you that no.
No, it doesn't matter John, it doesn't matter.
R- Well, if 1 remember rightly, and I don't know a lot about this, you used to take, say just for argument sake you'd take a watch in, and say “Will you give me a pound on that?” Mind you the thing might have been worth three or four pounds, and of course he'd lend you a pound. And then whatever rate he charged, I don't know, no.
Yes, it doesn’t matter, that’s all right John. What would you say was the attitude of the people who used the pawnshops, notice I say people that used the pawnshops, towards the pawnshops, do you understand what I mean?
R- Yes. Well let me say the general attitude of people to the pawnshops were, if you could get in at the back door so much the better in ...
In other words if people couldn't see you going in. Yes.
R- That’s right. I mean they the thing is that people didn't like to be seen going in the pawnshop you see.
Yes. And was it possible to do that John?
R- Well it was at one, and the other one I don't know a lot about it. The one nearest to us which was on, well it was on the street down at the bottom here you see.
Was that Catlow’s?
R- And as you were walking up and down, you know in your ordinary course of events you’d see people going in and coming out you see? Well they used to have a back door, you used to be able to go in at the back door and they said there were more people used the back than used the front, because it…
Yes. I can understand that. Do you think that there were, perhaps, you know, a sort of a sense of .. perhaps an element of shame that they had to go.
R - Oh definitely yes. Definitely yes. I mean the thing is that even in those days people had their pride.
Very much so I should say yes. Perhaps even more than nowadays John.
R- Yes. I mean today the attitude has completely changed. Whereas in those days, although you were poor, you were proud. And mind you, let me say this, the religious influence in those days was a lot stronger than it is today. And I think that has a lot to do with it, that people’s consciences were more in evidence than what. Well people, the conscience of people is today that ... Although you were poor you see you used to have a qualm of conscience if, like you were doing anything underhand. Or, on the other hand, you didn't reveal your poverty, but yet people had it, because it… Well it’s pride really, pride.
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Would you say that there was ever .. now, wait a minute. I've got to put this very carefully because I don't want to trigger you. If people were temporarily more hard up than they were usually, would you say that they tried to, did they try to conceal it from say, other people in the street in any way, you know, would they ...
Well, I should say yes. But at the same time there was in the people a different attitude to their neighbours to what there to today. For instance I mean, if Mrs So and So were sick or ill, right, make her a rice pudding and take it down you see. Ore if you like, say there was some where the children, she couldn’t make the children a meal, fetch all the children into your house and feed them with yours. Or on the other hand, “ Can we do you any errands?” you know. Always this kind of thing, particularly say on terminal illness. People would sit up all night with you and this kind of thing. There was this kind of fellow feeling which was very pronounced, because I know for a fact, well I know meself, I’ve gone out in other lad’s clothes because the lad himself had grown out of them. Rather than put them on the rag cart people would send them down. I mean, I’ve worn loads of cast offs.
There again, that's another thing we'll get round to, clothing. But would you say it was perhaps true to say that the harder up people were, the more they stuck together? Was it as simple as that?
R- Oh yes. The thing is I it was common to most people, and so as I say, there was this feeling of camaraderie that… and it used to operate and show itself in lots and lots of ways.
Shared experience, Yes.
R- Oh yes.
I once heard it said, well, I didn’t hear it, it was in a book by a fellow called Roberts, ‘The Classic Slum’. He said that, it was about Salford, the same time that you are talking about. Very bad conditions, the same sort of thing that you were talking about but perhaps worse in some ways in Salford. But he said that one of the things that struck him most as a child was the fact that people didn’t really like other people in the house when they were eating a meal. Because if they were eating a bit better than the rest of the street they didn’t want them to know because it seemed like showing off. And if they were eating worse they didn’t want them to know about it. Now would you say that that was right?
R- Oh yes, it was one of the things me mother instilled into us as children. If you go into a house, and they are having their meal, any meal, you came out. You never sat and watched them eat, no. No, I mean it was one of the things and it was kind of instilled into us, you didn't. And particularly if you went in a house and you come back home, you never talked about what they were having. I mean, I can hear me mother now saying “That'll do! If you can’t mind your own business, keep out.”
That’s it.
R- You see, I mean it. And likewise, if neighbours come in and it was meal time I’ve known us be waiting for them to go before we started. Before they put the meal out. Yes.
Yes. Did your mother, or your father, or you know, did you ever use the pawnshop?
R- On the odd occasion yes, when we were really put to. Because let me say this, that the National Health Service, just to give you an instance, wasn't like it is today. And I mean, the doctor had to he paid. Well, we sent for the doctor to come to my brother that was very ill, and he wanted a pound before he’d look at the child.
A pound?
R- Oh yes. Aye, he wanted a pound. The point was you see that even the doctor we paid so much a week to. And it must have been that we had a bill on
I see what you mean.
R- You see? And to fetch him out, he wanted a pound. So, well, pawnshop.
What went?
R - I really can't tell you. But mother had a silver teapot that was given to her from the Sunday School where she went before she was married you see. It was solid silver. Now whether that went I don’t know but I remember that. But I remember that occasion because after the doctor had gone I had to chase up to the surgery to get some medicine for the child.
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Was there anything, we'll get back to food a little bit now, was there anything that you ate when you were young that you can’t get nowadays?
R- Well, I wouldn't say that there's anything that you can't get but you don't see as much of it. For instance I mean, the pork shop that I've mentioned to you before used to prepare a concoction what they used to call 'savoury duck'. Now just what was in them, there was an element of meat, but what else I don't know. Well, I mean, we used to buy a lot of these. Mind you the pork butcher would have trays and trays of them you see. I mean it used to be three ha’pence you see. The equivalent what, of one penny now and you used to buy these, and they'd be about two inches square, and about three inches high. Well you used to slice it up and put it on your bread for sandwiches. Well you don't see much of that. And Polony which was quite a common thing of course, black pudding have always been with us you see but apart from that I can't just think of anything particularly that you can't get today.
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Can you think of anything that you could get then and you can still get now, but the quality has deteriorated? Would you say that any food's, the quality is deteriorated since the times we are talking about, 1920 say.
R- Well, let's say this, it's become more sophisticated. For instance we used to get, which is a thing I haven't mentioned before, a lot of Quaker oats you see. And Quaker oats were the thing. And of course you used to make porridge out of it. Well I mean, the oats themselves were quite large as though they had just been rolled from the whole grain. Whereas today of course they are all ground up and chopped up, you know until you get a right smooth porridge kind of thing but in those days the oats were large, because what she used to do occasionally if we had Quaker oats she'd get some and mix some sugar in and put them in little bags or in paper, and we used to nibble this, you know, take a bit to school, Quaker cats and sugar.
That's it, aye. One of the things that I was thinking about John is something which I think was far better in those days was the fact that just about every town had its railway station and just about every town had its fish train and the fish used to come in, and it used to be, you know, really fresh off the dock whereas now it's mostly frozen fish. Could you say that fish then was better than it is now?
R- Oh well definitely yes, in as much as it had more taste. You see, I've mentioned to you about being down, you know, to catch the paper train. Well the paper train was also the fish train.
That’s it aye.
R- You know, the fish carriage, it was a passenger train, was at the back. And they used to be humping these boxes of fish out and of course they were packed in ice, but it was fresher, definitely. Well I should think so.
Yes, straight off the dock. I don't think there's much doubt about that John, I think that’s probably one of the areas where there has been a deterioration because you know it used to be a very, very well organized thing, the transport of fish and newspapers.
R- Oh yes.
You see it was straight to the door. Have you any idea how much housekeeping money your mother would have for a week in them days?
R- Well, if you said altogether two pounds to keep six of us. This is after the end of the first world war.
Yes like roughly 1920.
R- After the 1920's. Well I mean for instance, I started work in 1923 at the age of 14 years. Well, of course as each child started work, a family became more affluent.
That’s it.
R- But up to that time, up to about 1923, I should think that she had about two pounds a week, give and take a bit, because I mean, during that time she bore six children you see.
Yes. Interesting point there, John. You said that when you started working the family became more affluent. I don't know whether I've mentioned this to you before, but it's something I keep coming across. Would you say that it was true to say that probably the best, the most affluent time a lot of families would have was when they'd got say three or four children working and tipping up at home?
R- Oh yes, definitely.
Yes. Now I’ve heard it said that that was the time when a lot of families bought their houses.
R- I was just going to say that.
Yes, is that right?
R- The thing is you could buy a house then for about £150 to £200 you know, depending on the size, and the locality and that sort of thing. But this was the occasion that people used to save their money because I can remember after me father died and there were three of us working you see? Mother worked as well and.. well, we got to the stage where we moved into a better house, we got the electricity in and we got a gramophone, and we got a wireless you know. And of course we could go and buy a suit once a year, and that kind of thing.
(850)(40 min)
Living the life of Reilly John.
R- Well, but this was the thing you see as you got working, and of course mum, me mother you know, got to the stage where she always kept, when she was able to have enough food in so that if we had a bad time we could carry on for a while. And it's a system that pertained, I mean my two sisters today, even I now could put you on a meal. Mind you it’d be out of a tin, but we always got to this stage where…
Yes, that's a very good point, that, John.
R- ... where she kept enough in so that if we, well if times were hard. Just let me give you a quote. When the second war started and rationing was introduced we had enough sugar in the house to last us for about three or four months without any cutting down of ...
Would you say John that there was an element in that of, your mother had been hard up for so long that it’d make her feel very secure to know that she had a good do of stuff in the pantry. It’d be a great thing for her, couldn't it, you know?
R- Well, that's a point, a good point is that. Because our house was one of those places where anybody would drop in and they'd be sure of a meal. Because I mean a case in point that I can think of, where we had some friends who lived in Blackpool. Well they'd come over to see me mother, we never knew they were coming style of thing, but yet when they came there was no running out to the shop to buy anything in, it was there.
That's it. It's a point of pride isn't it.
R- Yes, aye.
Very good John.
SCG/23 July 2003
6,777 words.