THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON THE 4TH OF JULY 1979 AT 16 COWGILL STREET, EARBY. THE INFORMANT IS HORACE THORNTON, TAPER AND THE INTERVIEWER IS STANLEY GRAHAM.
Tape 79/AD/03
Right Horace, some more questions about when you were living in Carleton up to when you were 12 year old. Anyway, your early life. What we are on now is clothing, which can be a very interesting subject. Right, did your mother make any of the family's clothes?
R- Yes, making lad’s trousers out of old trousers she got, cut them down. And she used to knit all of our socks, you know? Well they were knee socks you know, stockings that come up to us knees. And the one sister as I cam remember, she used to make all her own clothes. So you were asking was she a milliner, now Amblers must have been dressmaker and milliners because she could do the lot.
That's it, I'd forgotten what her job was, yes.
R - Yes, I think that's what she must have been when she worked at Mrs Ambler’s.
Yes, did she have a sewing machine Horace?
R - Yes and it were a Jones treadle machine.
(50)
Aye, me mother used to work at Jones’s. And so obviously if you tore anything or anything wanted repairing she’d mend clothes as well.
R- Well she did. And she often tells tales about you know, four lads being out, and get to bed time when she were tired out and it were time for bed, and we’d get undressed and she’d he examining our clothes and there’d be all t’back torn out of one of the pair of trousers, beyond repair, so she’d to turn round and sit up while morning side to make us a pair of trousers to go to school in the next morning. And she used to go to rummage sales or what, the second hand sales, and buy old clothes and what could be cut down they were cut down and what weren’t, they were torn up and
made into peg rugs, that's what happened. And we all had to give a hand at pegging rugs.
Tell me, how did you peg rugs Horace? Every time, a number of times people have told me that they have a peg rug in the house. I know how it’s done but people might not just know how it was done.
R – Well, the pricker, we used to get a sheep bone out of a leg of mutton or shoulder of mutton. There'd be a straight bone with a knuckle end on, there's the ball end on and they used to saw it off about that long.
About six or seven inch? Yes.
R- And then grind it down to a point you see. And this knuckle
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piece fit into your hand and make it smooth, went shiny and that's what you used as a pricker. It’d last for ever you know. And if the point end got a bit blunt all you got to do is rub them down a bit on a stone and they were sharp again.
Aye .. And all you did actually, was make a loop of material and push it through the backing.
R - You made a hole and pull one end through, and made another hole and pull the other through in the sacking, we used to call it sacking, canvas they call it now, or Harding, there's another name for it, Harding. But that were all you did, push it through, and you’d to be careful not to break the weft or warp you see else that were no good. You had to push them into the .. make a hole and push the pricker in and then every piece of cloth were cut to a point, the ends are cut on a cross so there's a point on you see, and then you just push one end through and took hold of it underneath and push the other end through and pull them down so as they’re equal.
(5 min)
And you get a piece of crayon round the outside and make a black line on and then you always put a black border and then if you could get any red cloth, what they used to be after was soldiers red uniforms. In those days soldiers wore red tunics, and if they could get hold of those red tunics they were worth their weight in gold, or a lady's red dress; but the soldiers uniforms wore for ever.
Aye.
R- And .. put black and red and then the inside, if you made a diamond pattern, any pattern on, you may pick your colours out, but otherwise it were all mixed colours that the rest of the rug were made on.
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So you worked from the back really.
R - You had a frame, a rugging frame. It were a piece as wide as ever you, well you could have it as wide as you wanted, and mortises at each end, two of them. And you'd two laths that went through and peg holes in, you put a metal peg or a wood peg
in and as you started at one end of the rug you wrapped it on you see? And unwrap the other end then pull it tight and put the peg in and it were always taut.
Yes.
R- You see? And you were working over the roll ... and you’d lay it across two chairs you see. Have it on a chair at that side and on the table, on the table at one side and on a chair at the other, back of a chair. And you sat and worked with your rug in front of you.
Yes, that's it, aye. I know about ten or fifteen year ago round the farms, I tell you what were popular for doing them, nylon stockings.
R – Yes, but they are a bit soft. Peg rugs, if they were done close, the clippings as we call them, stood up you know. And if you put a backing on it, put a sacking lining on, they wore for ever. And if the sacking wore through, replace it with another, they’d wear until, the clippings used to wear down till there were only the knots left. And . that was what you had on the floor and lots of people had just two or three rugs down, hearthrugs as they called them, and t’rest of the floor bare.
That’s it, aye.
R- Stone floors.
Did you ever have any passed on clothes?
R- Yes, relations would pass you clothes on and I remember, perhaps
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you can remember them black suits that were very popular, they were handed down from grandfather to father and to his grandson and they were worn and worn and worn while they went green.
That's it ...
R - But such good cloth. It were like, cloth like boards.
Right serge, weren't it?
R – Well, right fine .. right fine stuff you know that. But I tell you I wore me grandfather's stuff cut down you know?
Yes. People can't understand that nowadays you know. I talk to younger people you know and everybody seems to think nowadays that clothes are something that wear out in a year and they can’t understand people [wearing a suit for years] And I'm not talking about people having a suit that they never wear, I’m talking about people that used to wear suits day in day out for years and years and years.
R - Yes and they didn't wear out.
No they just went shiny didn’t they? That were all.
R - Yes they did, that were it. And blue serge suits…
Flannel .. ?
R - But these, same as these, I've had these a long time they've just gone threadbare.
[Horace was talking about the tweed trousers he had on]
Yes, aye.
R- But the thing is when I'm doing anything about the house I always wear overalls on the top. And .. this has got fairly well plucked going after blackspice, the thorns catching them, you can see…
Aye, aye, that's it, aye.
R - All there, all over the place. That’s what happens to my clothes.
Aye. Oh well, it's .. they’re not very .. it's happened in a good cause Horace!
R- Yes. Oh it is.
Did your mother buy many clothes? Did she buy any clothes at all?
R- Yes. We used to get a suit when we got, well, at my age, we got a suit once a year. Lads got a suit once a year, before Easter.
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When? Yes, were that for the Whit walks?
R – Well, probably, but you had a suit for Easter then. But you put them on
at Sunday afternoon, but you took them off after tea when you went out you see, with the lads, you hadn't to go out in your best clothes. But everybody
(10 min)
tried to have… Well, all t'lads about tried to have new clothes for Easter.
Yes. That's another thing that strikes you when you're looking at old photographs and family groups, especially when you look at some and people can tell you the history of the families . And something that I’ve noticed is that it doesn't matter how poor the family was, they all used to dress up in their Sunday best for this photograph and they did look respectable. And it seemed as though everybody, it doesn’t matter how poor they were, just about everybody had at least one good suit.
R- Yes, you'd a good suit. But now people don't seem to have a suit at all. Jeans… Well I wouldn't have been allowed to go outside the door at Sunday with jeans on. And patched jeans, same as you see, and my wife says to me “I wouldn't have gone outside t’door with you!” And she wouldn't today, with jeans on, patches on and you go away, away into towns, there's nothing but jeans and rag ones as well.
Ch you can go to places, you can go to weddings nowadays and there's people there in jeans.
R- Yes. And at a funeral everybody had to be in black. But that’s…
That's gone be the board yes. What happened to, well, when she did buy clothes, where did she buy them?
R- Well, Co-op. You could go to the Co-op and a tailor in Carleton measured you for t’Co-op. They'd be sent, the orders were sent away to the wholesale and that's how you got your clothes.
Did you ever come across Scotchmen?
R - No we didn't have them round.
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Do you know what I mean when I say Scotchmen?
R – Yes, and a bag man. Yes. I can never remember them being around, they never came to our house but they were probably, would be paying so much a week for the clothes. But in me mother’s case she'd be able to pay so much a week at the Co-op, they got clubs, you'd to get a club card and you paid so much a week and kept on paying so much a week, and then you spent on you wanted.
Very similar to them mail order clubs nowadays, very similar.
R- Yes it is. The Co-op were always club conscious.
What happened to your old clothes.
R- Well a rag man used to come round. Any that you couldn’t use for peg rugs, rag man got that.
What did you get back off the rag man?
R- Well they paid in them days. Now, if I get a sackful of rags, old clothes and there's a rag man coming and I’ll say to him “How much?” “Oh, we don't pay for rags!” Well, I say “You're not having ‘em then.” I just throw them on the rubbish cart.
Aye.
R - They always used to, they always used to pay for rags.
In money?
R - In money, always in money. There were one man, he were an Irishman, he came for years and he had a hand cart and he had a spring balance, and he put your rags into a sack and he weighed them and he paid you for them, so much a pound.
Aye, Can you remember how much?
R- No, but you had some satisfaction that you were getting paid and my mother always used to save all her rags for that chap because she got money and you got weight. But this one, he’ll give you a scouring stone ... Well a scouring stone was something and nothing.
Yes. Have you ever seen them giving salt for old clothes, with a block of salt on the wagon?
R - Well no, but there were Herds from Colne used to come round Carleton with a horse and cart with blocks of salt on. It were called the dry salt of Herds from Colne. Came for years.
Yes. And you could buy a block of salt off him.
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R - Yes, off the cart. It wouldn’t be above sixpence I don’t suppose, for a big block of salt. And then you kept it in the cellar and you used to chop a lump off and break it up and jut it in the salt pot when you, just as you needed it. We’d wooden salt boxes.
And what did you wear for school Horace?
R - Fustian
Aye. Lined?
R- Yes there would be, and jacket, waistcoat and trousers. And you didn’t have handkerchiefs.
(15 min)
Aye that’s it, your sleeve!
R- Yes, on your sleeve.
How about .. I’m very interested in the history of underpants. How about underpants, did you wear underpants?
R - We wore loose, we wore cotton linings and me mother used to unpick them, they were fastened in the trousers but she used to unpick them.
That's it.
R- And wash them you see? They never seemed to get the ideas of having separate underpants, they were always in the trousers.
No ... That's right.
R - And asI1 got older I went to a tailor at Skipton and he measured me for the suit and then he said “Do you want loose lining, or do you have underpants?” I said “Oh no, I always have them lined.” “Well - he said - it's a dirty way.”
Aye, yes.
R- And I realised then, the difference you see, but it were what we’d always known. I'd perhaps be 14 or 15, just started working.
So that were you converted to underpants? Aye. I’ve always said that .. and mind you a lot of people nowadays can't remember this, but at one time underpants used to have tapes an them. [These were on the waistband which wasn’t elasticised in those days. You slipped the ears of your braces through them before attaching them to the buttons on your trousers. This meant that your shirt always had to be tucked in your underpants.]
R - Yes, but me mother used to make them, you got what they called shed cotton. You went to the mill and said “I want a pound of shed cotton.” and it were one and three pence, and the warehouse manager need to measure so many yards and tear it off, roll it up and that were it. And you made your underpants out of that.
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R - And cotton vests were made out of the same cloth, cotton vests for summer, well they were summer or winter, there were no difference in your attire, winter or summer. And me mother made us shirts, bought shirting and made them and knitted the socks. Of course when you'd no money coming in you had to be self sufficient.
Aye. Tell me something Horace. Can you remember being breeched?
R - Yes because .. I've a photograph somewhere about, a photograph taken at school with all the other scholars and I were in a white pinny and a frock.
Yes, what age?
R - I were under three. We lived quite near the school and me mother having a lot of children, they let the younger un go before they were three. There were a Mr Lily was the headmaster, and he’d two daughters who were school teachers and a Miss Bridge were the teacher at the Infants. And they'd take then at two, just to help the mother a bit. But I have this photograph, a frock and a white pinafore on, and long curly hair, you'd think it was a girl. And then, I can remember my uncle sort of remarking “Oh, you’ve got breeched have you?” See? You see, before that if you wanted to do your business, anything, you just sat down anywhere, you'd no knickers on or anything. You’d just sit down and do it wherever you were, not in the house but outside ...
Yes aye, that’s it. Different days Horace, different days and different customs and they’ve gone now. You know, people just don’t realise. Anyway, we’ll carry on with the questions. What kind of hat did you wear [for school]?
R – Cap, always a cap.
Yes, that’s a cap made up in segments, not a flat cap. Yes?
R – Yes, yes. No.
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And how about your boots?
R - Clogs.
Clogs? Irons?
R - Except Sunday. Irons yes irons. There were two cobblers in Carleton, Smith's and Mawson’s.
What sort of irons, thick or thin?
R – Thick, oh yes, I’d say you wanted…
Colne irons?
[Different districts used to have different styles of irons. There were the common irons, Accrington irons which had a narrower section at the toe, rather like a broad duck’s bill and Colne irons which weren’t ribbed like a normal iron bit were solid and heavier. Then there was the option of double irons which wore longer. I wore clogs when I was on the cattle wagons and always had double irons. The cattle heard you coming in ironed clogs and you didn’t get kicked. The reason why I asked Horace whether his clogs were ironed was because a lot of inside workers and women used rubber ‘irons’.]
R- Well, they come from Silsden over our way. It were a great clog iron making shop was Silsden. And they're always thick irons, you wanted to be able to make sparks.
[Horace is referring to the trick of striking sparks with your irons, a regular lad’s trick.]
(20 min)
That’s it. Aye. What would your father wear for work?
R - White fustian trousers, they always wore white fustian trousers did mule spinners to go to work. And I know I can see me mother t0 this day, if they couldn’t get the black oil marks off, she were scrubbing them and rubbing them with chalk. They wouldn't go, they wouldn’t go to work at Monday morning with dirty oil marks on. You see you were dirty if they turned them out at Monday morning. And then as time went on, what I can remember about them, they all worn cotton trousers you see. They were thick for wear. But they wore then inside, in the mill. White fustian trousers and a lot of the older end, I suppose they were pensioners, they wore white fustian trousers at Sunday, they hadn't anything else.
How about shirts, what sort of shirt?
R - Well me mother bought shirting, we didn't wear shed cotton shirts, she always made the shirts, our shirts.
What were they, Union?
R - They would be Union, same year round, but they used to, it wasn't like flannelette. Union's a twill. Aye
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Yes. That's it, yes.
R - And .. fairly strong were all Union shirts. I don’t suppose that people nowadays would know what you were talking about.
No, generally with a stripe in weren't it, with a thick and thin stripes, narrow stripes. Yes.
R- Yes they were. Yes.
Aye. You can still see them about occasionally.
R - Yes, But they did wear well.
Yes. Of course, Union, it were like wool and cotton mixture wasn't it?
R - Yes but it were all cotton were the shirts we used to wear. It were all cotton. And then Union shirts that were, they'd been raised, more like flannelette weren't they?
That’s it, yes. Aye that's it. What they call now grandad shirts, aye. What kind of hat would your dad wear to work?
R - Billycock. Brother went to work in a Billycock, they did. And in my time since the war, there were a tackler who used to work down here at Johnson’s and he came from Colne and he always came in a Billycock. This is since the war.
Since the second world war?
R- Yes.
What kind of footwear did he wear?
R- Me?
No, your dad.
R – It’d be boots. You see, everybody wore boots, elastic sided boots. Yes. You see… oh well .. roads were such a mess, I can remember.
Aye. Me dad used to call them laughing side boots.
R - Aye. I remember the road when they used to have a scraper, they weren't tarmac. And it were a thing, it dragged on the road, it had all loose sections on it. They dragged it on the road to scrape the mud to the side of the road. That were how the roads were mended. Pot holes, they'd fill them up with a barrow of stones and put some limestone dust on top of them. And then it came to be just in Carleton they were tarmaced, and then it spread out from the villages everywhere. But I remember all these roads over Pinner Moor were all loose stone.
Aye, water bound macadam.
R – Yes.
Now what sort of footwear would he wear when he were working?
R- Clogs, held go to work in clogs, take them off and he were bare foot.
Yes. Aye but that's it, yes spinning, he’d spin in bare feet.
R – Yes, bare feet.
Aye. But that wasn't a wood floor was it, at Slingsby’s.
R - Stone floor. Stone floor upstairs like, on the second and third floor were all spinning, the ground floor were the card room.
Yes. Aye, that’s it. Aye, devils, scutchers and cards. Aye. And what would your mother wear?
R- Clogs. She wore clogs all her life.
Yes. And what sort of clothes would she wear for housework?
R – Well, they were always long, you know? Skirt, but as time went on they got to be shorter and more modern.
Did your mother ever go into shorter skirts?
R - Yes but not minis.
Aye. When you say a long skirt Horace, do you mean actually down to the floor or sort of ..
R- Not me mother, not really down to the floor. Down to the floor, my grandmother, she wore them down to the floor and black tight bodices. She were a very stern woman, and a lace cap on her head.
Cap yes.
R- She always, and thin. Oh, she were always very stern..
Aye. Would your mother wear anything different it she went out shopping than she wore to do the housework?
R- She always wore a shawl, a red shawl.
Was there any significance in it being red?
R- No, but if she got a new one she got a red one. Lots of other people wore red shawls or grey ones, but all the people that went to the mill, they all wore shawls.
Would she wear, if she went out to the shop, say she was working in the house and she’d wear an apron wouldn't she? She wore a pinny…
R- Yes.
If she went out to the shop, or if she went out of the house, would she leave that pinny on or take it off?
R- Oh, she'd keep her pinny on. Yes, because in Carleton the Co-op were just across the road, the butcher’s shop were just a bit farther up, and then farther along still, another 50 yards, there were the Post Office and general stores.
Would she wear a hat?
R - Not to go out, not in the village, no never, always the shawl.
Yes.
R - And I don’t think she fastened it, she used to have her arm under it and she’d be holding it.
What were the shawl made of Horace?
R- Same as blankets, wool. They were made same as blankets and with a fringe on. And when they went out with the baby, wrap it round the baby, carry the baby in it.
Yes. And as you get down more into Lancashire a lot of the shawls seem to have been cotton.
R - Always woollen shawls.
Yes, aye. Wool. It's funny, I always remember them as woollen shawls when I was a lad, when I've seen them because I used to see them about then, you know, odd ones you know, after the war. And a lot of them looked as though they were knitted. I can't be certain obviously, I wasn't taking too much notice then, but they seemed to be a very open weave you know?
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R- Well, probably they would be, they did, good knitters would knit them. But these were always woollen shawls like a blanket.
Yes. And your dad mend your shoes or your clogs?
R- I don’t think so. No, I don’t think he would, I can never remember him doing it.
No. Aye. ‘Cause there were two cloggers in the village.
R - Well, clogs .. me mother would say go and get your clogs ironed. You just went and took them and you sat and waited till he did them.
How much?
R - No idea. Because he used to send a bill in when… Oh we didn't pay there and then. I mean anybody in a village, you know whether they’re payers or they aren’t payers and our name must have been good, because…
Aye there you are.
R - You took your shoes, you took your clogs and Richard Smith, Dick Smith they called him. And there were two Richard Smiths in Carleton, one were called Cobbler Dick and the other were called Sizer Dick. You knew which … one were the taper at the mill, sizer, and Cobbler Dick were the shoemaker.
How many outfits of clothes did you have at any one time?
R - Well we’d have what we’d had the year before for knocking about, Saturday afternoons and that, but then you’d a good outfit. You'd to make that last a full year. Out, it were only processions and weddings and Sunday afternoons.
That’s it, Sunday best.
R – Yes, Sunday best.
Well, there is a question here ‘Were any clothes made for you by a dressmaker?’ Yes they were really because your mother used to make most of your clothes.
R- Yes.
(30 min)
Have you over come across such a thing as people sewing children in for the winter?
R- Never.
Never come across it.
R – Never.
Have you ever heard of it?
R - Well, probably I will. have heard of or read about it but never to my knowledge.
It’s something I’ve never come across. Did you, well you’ve already said that your mother did really belong to a savings club for clothing because she'd probably be in a club at the Co-op wouldn’t she?
R- Yes.
What kind of clothes would the spinner wear? When I say spinner I mean the bloke in charge of the wheel gate, you know, in charge of the spinning, his foreman. What was the right name? Was he the spinning master?
R- Overlooker.
Overlooker aye. Well, now what .. ?
R - They were all overlookers.
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Yes. What sort of clothes would he wear?
R - White coat and white trousers. A white jacket the same as it might be a baker, or a painter. But always the white trousers and the white jacket.
He wouldn't have bare feet, he’d wear shoes wouldn’t he that fellow?
R- Yes, because he wasn’t there all the time see?
Yes, that's it. How about…
R- Hat?
Aye.
R- Well, it’d be a billycock.
Aye, it would be wouldn't it, nearly sure. Would you say that, did you see a difference in clothes after the first world war?
R- Well, they got more modern but you see there were ring spinners, they were all women, and they went in clogs and shawls same as the women in the village wore. But there were a difference in [the village]. There were two sorts of women in the village, there were ever so many big houses round Carleton, and the village lads married the servants. And the servants were always dressed up, you never saw them going out in anything but shoes, you know, aping the masters. And they always considered themselves a bit superior to the village people. But there were quite a lot you see, there were one, two, three, four .. about five big houses in Carleton and there’d be an endless procession of servants, and I can remember ‘em to this day. You could tell them who’d been in service, because they dress differently and talk differently. You see they'd come from the South of England perhaps, a lot of them and they spoke different to us. But they never, they never wore clogs, they always wore shoes and never wore a shawl they were always dressed up.
Yes. would you say that we’re getting into a sort of class distinction here, that clogs and shawls were .. and I dare say white fustian pants and all, were equated with mill workers.
R- Probably.
Let’s put it this way, lower working class people. I don't like labels, social classes, at all, but I mean, I find that doing this sort of work I’m forced to use them. At that time, did you ever give any thought to things like that? I mean I noticed the way you
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said that they [the servants] never wore clogs. I mean, did you realise that there was really a sort of a reason for that.
R- Well, you wondered who they were, and same as me mother’d explain how it were that they were always different, “Oh, she were a servant for Slingsby’s” you see? I could mention quite a lot now you see that were servants, you could pick them out. But you see there were only really two classes of people, there were farm labourers and mill workers at Carleton, and then a few railway men.
What kind of clothes were you wearing in the 20’s? Now lot's see, 1920's you’d be?
R- Eighteen.
Eighteen year old, that's it, aye. So now you'd be….
R - Yes aye, aye 1906.
You'd be earning a little bit of money.
R – Yes. Well, when I started work, when I were 12, half time and I were doffing, that were 1920, round about then, and wages wore high then. And I knew doffers with £2 a week or over.
Aye.
(35 min)
R - That's doffers, and spinners and, well, I don’t know about spinners, I didn't know the wage .. but weavers were making three and four pounds then for a short period. And then the slump came.
That were it.
R- And it were working and playing, working and playing and you had to take a reduction in your wages. They'd come out on strike, you’d be out a few days and then they’d settle it for a 10% reduction. It were never for a 10% rise, a 10% reduction.
No, well, I'll have a lot of questions about that later Horace. What I’m thinking about now was, I’ll trigger you off, I mean … did you ever own a pair of Oxford bags?
R - No never.
Never.
R- I were never .. I couldn't have gone out in them, I wouldn't have done, my clothes hadn’t to be outlandish, they’d just to be the ordinary thing, nothing out of the ordinary. For a long while I had a job .. well I didn't wear lighter coloured clothes, it were blue serge suits and a bowler hat, stiff collar. Because we were brought up to go to church Sunday morning, Sunday afternoon for Sunday school and the church at night because all on me father’s side, they were very religious people because they'd always been connected with the church verger and we all had to go, everybody went.
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One or two lads didn't go, well they were beyond the pale that didn't go to the church or to Sunday school. And Carleton Feast were a big day, everybody walked and the band playing and the people walked round and you walked round to the big houses, sang a few hymns and got lemonade dished out to you or an apple or an orange. We went all round the village. They always seemed to be glorious summer days ... First Saturday in July it always were, well, first Saturday nearest the fifth, that were Carleton Feast, and .. banners flying. Big banner at t’front and smaller banners all along the line. But you started off and went to the Grange, Carla Beck, Ravenshaw, then came back to the vicarage and then over Carleton, played at one or two shops. Beech Hill, that was a big house, Dale Garth that was another big house, round Carleton, back to the school for half past four and a sit down tea. And then a gala at night and prizes and prize giving and the rest of it. That made your day.
Aye .. And that’d be when you had your new suit. Aye.
R- Yes. Well, you'd put it on but you’d take it off for the sports.
Aye. Now then, family life in the home. Did everyone sit down for their meals together?
R- Yes, when we were all at home, before we started working. But me mother always had her tea near on the dot at four o’clock, that was school leaving time. When you got home your tea were ready, then you'd a free night.
Yes. Now your dad wouldn't have finished work then.
R- No, half past five.
So he'd eat on his own.
R- Yes. Did your parents have any rules about your behaviour at the table? You know, were they at all strict about it.
R - Well, you just took your cue off anybody else. You see. I mean you don't know, you’re just young and learn off the older ones and that’s where it is.
Did you use to, did you sit at the table?
R - Oh yea, big square table you know, all sat round the table.
Did you know anybody in the village whose children didn't sit at the table?
R- No, you didn't go into people's houses at meal time and stay there and watch them having their meals.
(40 min)
Aye. That’s it aye. Have you any idea what I’m driving at with that question? Round here you know, Earby and Barnoldswick, I don’t know how much further afield it went, but up to about 1920 it
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was very common, you'd find a lot of families where children, after they’d got out of the high chair stage, never sat down at the table again until they were starting to work. They used to stand at the table and eat.
R- No, I never heard that.
Never come across this?
R- No.
That was very, very common in Earby and Barnoldswick. Very common.
R - Never heard of that.
Yes, you want to ask Fred Inman about that sometime, Fred’ll tell you. Yes, I was surprised when I found out but it's extremely common round here. Were your parents strict about things like times for coming in at night or being cheeky or swearing?
R - When we were young we had to be in early, we hadn't to be out after dark and we’d to be in bed by nine o’clock. Like those that were being bathed were bathed first and went and we’d to be in bed for nine o'clock.
What .. if you did do something wrong, say you'd been told to be in for eight o’clock or whatever it was, and you didn’t come in .. apart from a good telling off, I mean if your mother or your father decided to punish you, how did they punish you?
R- Well, I can’t remember. I can only remember being thrashed with me dad once, I’d been cheeky to me grandmother. She’d told me mother and me mother told me dad and I were lashed under the table with a strap and it were his razor strop. That's the only time I ever had a hand laid on me.
Is that right?
R - Yes. But when me dad died we always obeyed me mother, we never disobeyed her. It were funny like, four lads and a girl and we always looked after her. She never got cross, never bad tempered, I don't know how ever she did it because we were young devils. I can see it back now.
Did the family, well you said that they were fairly religious, did they have grace before meals?
R- No. No.
No. Any prayers at home?
R - No.
Prayers going to bed?
R- Yes, we always had to kneel down and say our prayers before we got into bed, you see?
Yes, Yes. Would you do that all together?
R- Well if one or two of us went to bed and me mother stayed with the younger end. They did it, put them into bed, but as we got older we went to bed together but we always said our prayers.
How long did you carry on doing that, Horace? Or I mean, for all I know you might still do it, but I mean ..
R- No. I don’t now but me sister does it yet, and she is 67 or 68.
Yes. If you had a birthday, was it different than any other day? You know, did you have presents or a party, or visitors?
R- No, no party, no visitors.
Presents?
R- No. ‘Many happy returns’
That's it.
R- And me mother said to us “It’s your birthday today” We didn’t bother right? I’d one aunt that wasn't married and she’d quite a lot of nieces and nephews, but when we were 21 we all got a present off her, I got a prayer book and a walking stick and I have them yet.
Prayer book and a walking stick? Yes.
R- Yes. At twenty one.
SCG/16 February 2003
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