THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON THE 11th of MAY 1979 AT NUMBER 9 SACKVILLE STREET, BARNOLDSWICK. THE INFORMANT IS JACK PLATT AND THE INTERVIEWER IS STANLEY GRAHAM.
[Mrs Mona Platt was present and helped Jack out here and there. Her contributions are clearly marked.]
So what year were you born Jack?
R- 1905.
1905, so that makes you 74 years old.
R - This month.
This month, what date?
R - 29th.
29th of May, that's it and where were you born Jack?
R - Cheesden Pasture Farm, Norden. Rochdale.
Aye and what were your dad doing, was he farming there?
R- Then? Yes.
Yes.
R - Yes.
That’s Cheesden Pasture. Do you know I've an idea I know that farm.
R- Aye.
Anyway what made him move across here Jack, any idea?
R - Well I don't know really. You see when I were young I went to live with me aunt and uncle at Royton.
Aye?
R- I don't know why they shoved me away like but I went and then when I came back to them we lived at White Cottage on White Moor, Fred Cutler had the farm and we lived in the cottage there, White Moor.
Yes.
R - That's when I come back to me mother like.
Aye.
R - There were only me mother then like, you know and what you call a step-father, you know.
Aye, and they came over to Barlick.
R - And then from Barlick .... from Barlick. we came to Tubber Hill.
Aye.
R- You know from White House we came to Tubber hill.
Yes.
R - And then from Tubber Hill we went to Rawtenstall and then from Rawtenstall we come back to Amen Corner.
Which is Amen Corner?
R- Higher Lee Cottages below Lane Head, them old cottages below the water works, you know, down in the bottom there.
Aye.
R- There were four cottages.
Aye. Are they still there?
R - Well, the remnants are, you know, the walls are but they're pulling 'em down.
Aye.
R- And from there again.. I were married from there,
Yes.
R- I were married from there, and then come living at Tubber Hill. Like you know, after I were married.
Aye. Now so that's a fair number of moves in a short time isn’t it, really?
R – Well, in a way yes. I’m spanning a time then from being about five year old to being about nine.
Yes. What would they be doing really, looking for work do you think?
(50)
R- Well they were up and down because it were, it were really bad for fellows, they went to different places looking for work, yes.
Aye five year till nine. Let’s see, that’d be about 1910 to the beginning of the first world war wouldn't it?
R - That's right..
Aye.
R - Well war broke out while we lived in that White Cottage, on White Moor.
Aye.
R- And then there were a do come out, they were condemning all them. It's still a good cottage is that but we’d to move and that's why we came from there to Tubber Hill.
Aye.
And did your mother work?
R - Me mother walked from there to Barrowford and they started at six o'clock at morning then.
Aye.
R- And if they weren’t there at six o'clock they had a weaver put on. [their looms]
Aye.
R - And there were no buses, no transport whatever, so you can tell what a rough do that were. That’d be, how many mile from White Moor to Barrowford?
It’ll be a good three mile.
R - And then after a year or two she thought she'd get nearer her work so she started down in town, Plummer’s they called it. It were Windle’s at Crow Nest and she thought that were near and that were what? That’d be three..
(5 min)
Well that were thick end of three mile.
R - Yes that's what I say.
And she were weaving of course?
R - She were weaving, yes.
Aye. which house do you remember best Jack, of the one's you lived in when you were young.
R - When I were young? Well, White House on White Moor.
Aye.
R - I remember it.. well, yes, you know during me youth, I remember that more than any of 'em.
Right, well let's just pin down exactly what and where that house is. When you talk about White Moor..
R - You know when you pass Stone Trough Well.. { Jack means Gilbert Well and I never corrected him]
Yes.
R - Stone Trough..
Where the bungalow is.. [Wood End bungalow]
R- Next farm on your left.
That's it.
R - The first farm on your left. [White House Farm]
Aye. I know where you mean now, aye. I never knew..
R - Fred Cutler had it.
Aye, I never knew that that were the name of that farm; and you were living in the cottage there?
R - We were living in the cottage.
Aye.
R - Half-crown (2/6d) a week then, only we didn't pay no rent 'cause I used to help Fred.
Is that right?
R - Aye, we used to get eggs off him you know and live rent free.
And how old were you then?
R - Oh about nine. He used to take me all ower with him and he’d never take no money. I used to run him errands and all sorts. I went hay making for him years after I really left there.
Aye.
R - For Fred.
What do you remember about the house, what were house like, how many rooms were there down stairs?
R - Oh there were just a living room and a little kitchen with the old stone sink and two bedrooms and that were it like.
No bathroom?
R - Oh no, no bathroom.
Outside toilet?
R - Outside toilet yes.
And what were that, dry toilet, bucket?
R - Bucket aye, th’old bucket you know, aye.
And the council wouldn't empty that, you'd have that to empty it yourself up there?
R - Oh that were to empty yourself, that went on the land I think did that.
Aye.
R- You know, farm land.
Aye.
R- It went on the land.
Aye. How about, what were the floors?
R- Flag.
Aye.
R - Flag floors.
Carpet?
R - A bit of an old rug I think, bit of an old peg rug, what they used to peg there selves then.
(100)
Aye.
R- Wi’ all bits of cloth cut up, you know.
Aye. Ever use sand on floor?
R- Oh yes, aye. She used to use sand did me mother on the kitchen floor an all you know.
Aye, where did that come from?
R- Now I can't tell you that, I think out of the farm yard, because I think Fred used to get it, you know, they'd a flagged floor in farm house. And a bucket full every now and again from there you know.
And that’d be done, what, once a week, sanding the floor?
R - Aye once a week yes.
Aye. Were there a stair carpet?
R - No, no stair carpet, stone steps.
Stone steps.
A - Stone steps aye.
Aye and were they wood floors upstairs?
R - Yes they were wood floors up stairs.
Aye. And how about cooking, what did your mother cook on.
R- Oh the old coal fire.
Aye,
R - There were no, you know…
Was it a range with a side boiler or was it..
R - No it had a side, hot water boiler, you know, where they filled a hot water boiler.
Yes.
R - And th’oven at t’other side what she baked in you know.
Aye. And how about having a bath?
R - Bath. Oh an old tin bath.
In front of the fire?
R- Front of the fire.
Regular night?
R - No, every now and then. {Jack and Stanley laugh]
Eh. Would you say they were hard up?
R - Hard up?
Yes.
R- Oh aye we were hard up alright.
Aye.
R - I didn't take much fault because I were in.. I were allus in the farm house, I really lived there more than at home. I only slept at home, I were never out of Fred’s but it were hard up days..
Aye.
R- Really hard up days, mmm.
How did it show mainly?
R - Well in every way. I should think me mother were one of the…. all she had were spent on food. I should think what we had on us backs did for Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday, you know what I mean.
Yes.
R- No Sunday changes.
That's It aye.
R – Th’old clothes and she were allus, she were allus good wi’ us. She'd allus see we’d sommat to eat, yes.
Ever known her going short to feed you?
R- Yes I have, yes I have. I allus remember one night she were coming home from Barlick, and I don't know if you'll ever remember it or not, but there used to be an engine at the top of Salterforth Lane, in that where they put the road salt.
I can’t remember it but I've heard of it.
R- Aye well I can remember it. I can picture it now and they used to take the rope down and pull the quarry wagons up, you know. You know out of the quarry.
Yes, aye.
R- Pull horse and carts up, hook on to the shaft and help the horse up. And somebody there took her wage off her one night when she were walking home from work, I can allus remember that. That were a bit of a hard week that week because she'd nothing then, you know.
(150) (l0 min)
Took her wage off her?
R - Aye pinched her purse, they never get to know who it were like but I allus remember that.
Aye.
R - So like there were a few rough ‘uns in that day weren’t there?
Aye,
R - And that's a long time ago.
What would a weeks wage be then for a weaver?
R – Oh, about twenty two or three bob I should think. [£1.15p]
What would that be, four looms?
R – Yes, four loom. I think me mother had five though, I think so. No, she'd four, there weren’t many fives. It were men that had five looms then and sixes.
Aye, aye.
R - It weren’t a known fact for women, they were four looms, you know, four looms as a rule.
How about going to school Jack, where did you go to school?
R – Foulridge. That’d be two mile wouldn't it?
Aye.
R - A good two mile.
How did you get there?
R- Walked it through the fields. Through the fields and down the big hill to Foulridge Station, across, and then up to school.
No school dinners then?
R - No school dinners no. I used to have to take our bit of dinners wi’ us, you know. Our Annie looked to that, me sister, she were older than us, you know and sandwiches, sandwiches. And then at tea time it’d be about what, seven o'clock would tea time. It used to take me mother that long to walk home you know. We had us tea about half past seven to eight o'clock I should think. We’d have a jam but' as we called 'em then tha knows.
She'd never have any time then to herself, your mother.
R - Me mother never had any time, no. No, no time didn't me mother, she'd a hard life had me mother. One of hardest lives I've ever known a woman to have really. I've telled you Mona haven't I many a time. [Mona was Jack’s wife.]
How old was she when she died Jack?
R- She’d be eighty one or two I should think.
Aye. How long ago's that?
Mrs. Platt.- Seventy three! (Mrs. Platt was present at the interview)
R - Oh seventy three. It's me that's got that wrong, she were seventy three.
How long ago's that, roughly?
Mrs Platt- She's been dead about twenty eight year now.
R - About 28 year since. She died at me sisters you know, up Cobden Street, Billy Spensley lived there, that's me sister you know.
Aye. How many brothers and sisters did you have?
R - One brother, one sister. Walter died, he came off work one day and doctor said he’d a bad cold you see so he went It’d work off but it didn't, he’d an ulcer burst that night and he died, he were dead the day after.
(200)
How old were he?
R- Twenty, twenty one, weren’t he?
Twenty one.
So when would that..
R- He died in March and he’d have been twenty one in July.
Aye.
Mrs Platt- Our Ronnie were a fortnight old when he died and he's fifty now.
R - That's right yes, yes.
Aye, so that's fifty year ago, that's going to be 1929.
R – Yes, he were Walter. And our Annie, she's living yet, you know our Annie don't you?
Aye, and how about school? Can you ever remember school inspectors coming or anyone like that? Can you ever remember anybody coming to school, you know, to see about your health or the way you were being taught. Can you ever remember anybody coming?
R- No, not them days, no not really.
Nurse looking at your hair or anything?
R- Oh I remember that, when the nurse used to come looking in your hair for the old bobblers aye.
Jack and Stanley laugh.
R - Oh aye but we allus passed them tests like, you know what I mean. As rough as we were she kept us clean.
What age did you go to school till Jack?
R - I went half time when I were twelve and left school when I were fourteen, you know. If you hadn't enough [time in]..I don’t know why because I can never remember being off much but it went in attendances. Unless they'd put it to fourteen then.
Yes.
R- I could never grasp that but it must have been because I were never one to miss school and I never.. I weren’t one to run away. I were as rough as any other lad but I never ran away from school.
Aye.
(15 min)
So twelve year old that’d be 1917, that’d be during the war you went half timing.
R - Yes that's reight.
Aye.
R- Aye that's right.
Aye, 1905 so that’d be 1917 it’d be during the war when you went half time.
R- I went half time when I were twelve.
When you were a lad Jack, I know we've talked about this before but you know, we play hell about kids nowadays and this, that and the other, how did you amuse yourselves?
(250)
R - Well we used to go swimming, jumping, running, laiking in the quarry, you know, playing about. Raiding orchards [laughs] Getting through the bob hole in hen huts and getting a few eggs out. Me mother used to send me for a bob's worth of eggs at Saturday and it used to take us all Saturday morning rounding 'em up out of hen huts so we could have, He He, so we could have the shilling. I'm telling you this, I'm telling you facts.
Aye.
R - I mean that's how we used to amuse us self.
Aye.
R- Raiding. I once remember old Jim Sutcliffe tha’ knows, landlord at that long row at Tubber Hill. He had a big garden out back and pea-swads, you know, all rows on 'em. So, it come this night we decided it were raiding night, we’d raid him. So three on us, there were me, Harry Grimes and George Horrocks and we all raided, well we raided peas. We’d a big bag apiece and we’d filled ‘em up. A big bag like that, get 'em up ready for going and then a chap, a chaps voice came, ‘Narthen’ he says, 'You can fetch them buggers here now, it'll save me picking ‘em'. Hee Hee!
(Laughter from Stanley)
R - Eh! He were sat down behind the hut. He’d never said nowt till we’d picked ‘em! And then we’d to go and give 'em him and we daren’t but miss tha knows.
Aye.
R - Aye, I allus remember that night. And then we were raiding the orchard on Peel Whitakers, tha knows, it were Peel Whitakers farm. Tha knows, down Salterforth Lane..
Aye.
R- On that lane, half way down. That one there, a chap called Whitaker had it then, Peel Whitaker and then they went on..
Oh yes, it's Bradley's now.
R- Oh I don’t know who has it now. Aye, we went on there, it were one Sunday. I used to go on there while they were all at Sunday School. And George, tha knows, he were allus there. I liked him a lot. So he’d a hole in his top pocket, in his top coat. He had a hole in and apples were dropping through and he's up the tree tha knows. Then all at once they land back [the farmer] so we jump down but George couldn't make it see, he’d too many apples in his top coat. They caught him, he geet apples alreight that Sunday did George, his bloody coat were packed wi’ apples, Hee Hee! No, we really really enjoyed us self up there in, you know when the old ferns, bracken were in. When they were dying off we used to make what you call a bracken house.
Aye.
R - That were us headquarters you know. Oh we've been chased. Old Bird chased us, I know he once caught me and George Horrocks, he says to George "I've kicked men off here nine foot high. Don't think you’re going to frighten me wi’ using a bit of cheek! So when we set off George turned round, he shouted “You f …..g lying bugger Bird!” Aye, oh aye.
(300)
(Laughter from Stanley).
R - That were old George Bird tha knows, oh we used to..
Who were he, quarry foreman, manager?
R- Who, George?
George Bird.
R - George Bird were the game-keeper that lived on White Moor then..
Aye, that's it..
R- Again the reservoir, you know. [Whinberry Harbour]
That's it aye, aye.
R- Aye, then he took, he took the Fanny Grey [Lane Head pub]after, Bird's you know.
Aye that's it aye, aye. And when you left school Jack where did you go working first when you went half time.
R - Now wait a minute, when I went half time? Oh Coates Mill, learning to weave wi’ me mother.
And she were weaving at Coates then.
R- She were weaving at Coates then yes.
Who had it then, can you remember?
R- Eh no I can’t remember. I can’t remember who owned it, I only remember the chap that used to reckon to be boss inside, they called him Old Nelson, he’d one eye. 'Cause that were him that… They used to put you learning wi’ people, you know, but I used to get sacked from every one on ‘em. Hah Hah! Tha knows all twist that comes up.
(20 Min)
Aye.
R- Well I used to break one on ‘em out tha knows and the old shuttles that they used to have on wi’.. and I used to thread one of them through tha knows, and they'd come up and they'd get end ready to take up and they'd be like this tha knows, bloody miles on it.
(Laughter from Stanley and Jack)
I get sent home wi’ three different ones at Coates and then I get sacked and I were only twelve. Anyway we went to Birds at Calf Hall after that.
Aye.
R- They called it Birds then, it were top firm. { I don’t know who this could be. I have a reference to Charlie Bird later in the 30’s}
Aye.
R- There were our Annie, me and me mother and we started and we worked there. Course I…and then our Annie had four looms, me mother had four and I were only like what you call a tenter you know.
Aye.
R- ‘cause I were still going to school.
Yes. Who paid you when you were tenting?
R- Well them that you tented for, you see.
Aye, how much?
R- Half a crown I think. Well they paid me mother, I wouldn't have getten none. And then from there, we came up here, we were one of first, some of, we were the first weavers in here.
In Bancroft.
R- I'd left school then and I were going on four loom.
Aye. Now wait a minute, wait a minute, just let's get this straight now. So you were working down at Calf Hall and from Calf Hall you came up here.
(350)
R - Calf Call mind you, I left, I left school, well I was at Calf Hall.
So that's 1919..
R- That's 1919
You'd leave school.
R- It would be, aye.
You were working at Calf Hall then.
R- Yes.
And then you came up here.
R- And then Bancroft Mill were setting some weavers on. They'd like started opening then you know.
Aye,
R - So me and our Annie and me mother all came up to Bancroft Mill.
Yes.
R- And that's where I got me first four loom.
Aye. Now just hang back a bit there, hang back a bit there because this is really one of main reasons why I wanted to come and see you Jack, because there's all sorts of people say all sorts of things about this, and I want to get it right. Now forget about going to work therefore a minute.
R- Yes.
Can you remember when they were building Bancroft.
R- Oh yes. Yes I can remember when they were building it.
Right now hold on a minute, hold on a minute. When did they start?
R- Oh now wait a minute, I don't know about that, oh no I can’t name that year. I know this, they started building that and they built it and there were a war on weren’t there.
Yes.
R- And there were a delay in opening it till the war finished or sommat.
That's it.
R - There were sommat. There were sommat happened that way. There were a delay.
Now during the war what were standing where Bancroft is now, were there any actual building done after war or was the building built. When can you first remember seeing Bancroft as a building?
R- Wait a minute. No I can’t. It runs in my memory, I can remember ‘em working on it. Yes it runs in my memory I can remember 'em working on it. Yes I can. Because we used to go to school from Tubber Hill down there you know.
Down Tubber Hill down, where were you.
Down Tubber Hill way you know.
Where were you going to school when you lived at Tubber Hill?
R- Gisburn Road school.
So which way did you come down, this way, Tubber Hill up…..
R- No straight down. Straight down the....
Yes, straight down like Barlick. Lane, Manchester Rd ..past..
R- Past the Greyhound.
That's it yes.
R- But they were building it then.
(400)
Yes.
R - They were on with it because Saturday I know we used to bounce round a time or two playing round it, you know, playing about there. Aye. And then, I’m going back a long way you know.
Yes.
R- Then it were finished and I know there were some sort of a lull in it, I allus remember that, they weren’t going to start it [begin running] till the war finished or something. Sommat like that. Because in the mean time I’d left school and been knocking about you know, Calf Hall. Bird’s at Calf hall.
Yes. Yea so as I understand it, I haven't got to the bottom of this yet Jack.
R- Oh wait a minute, no, no I've done wrong here. I've gone wrong. I didn't leave school, I didn't have me first job here I had it at Rawtenstall. I left school at Rawtenstall when I were twelve.
Aye, that's it.
R- I’ll have to go back.
When they moved back to Rawtenstall yes.
(25 min)
R- Aye, I left school and I went as a last-sorter in the slipper works. Hoyle and Hoyle, slipper works.
Aye.
R- But it were only a short spell do you see..
Yes.
R- But I’d missed that spell out with you.
That's it.
R- And that's when we come back to Tubber Hill from Rawtenstall.
That's it and then you'd go down to Coates with your mother.
R- That's right, yes.
Oh well that's right we've got it straight then.
R- Yes.
And you see I haven't got to bottom of it about Bancroft. One of the things that 1 can’t understand about Bancroft is that I've always been ..you know, they say that James Nutter's started weaving at Bancroft but I don't think they did.
R- James Nutter.
Yes.
R- Started weaving at Bancroft.
No but started, that they first started Bancroft up. When you went to work at Bancroft who were you working for?
R- Nutter's.
Ah now, Nutter's, but which firm, 'cause there were three firms weren’t there.
R- Aye there were three, yes there were.
There were three firms, there were James Nutters, W E and D and Nutter Brothers.
R- Well it weren’t W E & D, and it weren’t Nutter Brothers so it must have been James.
(450)
Aye.
R- Because I knew, I know them with later years, other Nutter's when I were on weft for W E&.D. Nutters. [Jack is talking about carrying weft when he was driving for Wild Brothers.]
Yes.
R- And one on ‘em used to live up there you know, that were Dick, there were Dick Nutter and another. No it’d be James Nutter.
Aye. Course James actually died in 1918 didn't he, he never saw the mill start.
R- Didn't he? No well, I wouldn't know that.
Yes, James actually died but you see the thing I can never understand is that while Bancroft. After Bancroft had started James Nutter's was still weaving down at Bankfield.
R- Yes that's right, yes they were weren’t they. James Nutter at Bankfield.
Aye and then..
R- Which shop had they at Bankfield then?
They were one of first tenants in there, back shop, they had about a thousand loom in there.
R - Had they, oh had they. And then Sagars were down there.
And then..
Mrs. Platt- Well me dad worked there for them Nutters at one time.
Where?
Mrs Platt- Didn't he?
R- At New Mill or Bankfield?
Mrs. Platt- New Mill.
R- You were talking about. We’re talking about Bankfield.
No, this is Bankfield and I think meself that there was something.. There's something somewhere about, there’s something happened somewhere about James, ..about Nutter Brothers going to start there and then in the finish they didn't.
R- I see.
And I haven't got to bottom of it yet. Anyway main thing is, main thing is that you went to work there. Now did you go to work there when they first started?
R- Yes.
You know when engine first started, can you remember what the date of that was Jack? [13th March 1920]
R- Oh no, no I can’t remember..
Mrs. Platt.- Well how old were you when you had your hand done..
R - Well I can remember this, that there were, that we got told when we went in if engine started running fast and running away we’d to run out, we’d to go out, leave everything and run out. They didn't pay you be what you earned, they, you got a standing wage.
Aye.
R- Because we’d to run out once or twice and once when we went back one of my looms were on top of other!
(500)
Is that right?
R- Yes, well it used to set off at t’boggart and there were only a few, twelve looms or twenty looms running.
Aye, aye.
R- There were only a few of us because we played football at tea breaks in the mill itself. They were still wheeling looms in and fixing ‘em you see.
Aye.
R - It weren’t no way finished. They'd hundreds of looms to put in when I went there.
Aye.
R- Aye. And it had, we got told very strictly not to waste one minute, not to waste no time if it started running, you know, really fast.
Aye.
R - Go out, run out. So we used to run out. In fact I run out a time or two when it weren’t really running at t’boggart. Hee Hee! Aye I’ll allus remember that once when I went back one of me looms were on top of another.
Aye picked up, belt had picked it up and thrown it up on top?
R - I worked there when that woman were killed you know, with the fire proof doors.
Ah now tell me about that. That's a story that I keep hearing and nobody's been able to tell me about it.
(30 min)
R - Well 1 can tell you about it because I looked at her after, when they had her laid on a table with her head in a big bunch of waste.
Aye.
R - Now her and me sister used to always go out together, they worked at side of one another. But our Annie she had, she were taking a bunch up, what they used to call 'em, or sommat.
Yes.
R- And she said she'd follow her round. She went out and as she went through them doors, them fire proof doors dropped on her and flattened her and they were two ton were them doors they reckoned.
Aye.
R - It took enough, so many people to lift it off. Half of the mill nearly, you know what I mean.
Aye.
R- And they, I can remember as plain as now 'em carrying her to that long table they had for..
Cloth lookers?
R – Yes, it run this way down mill then, not that, under the window..
Aye,
R- ..and one down here. And they had her laid on there on a reight big bundle of waste, you know. Yes, she were killed, well killed instantly. I can remember that do. They nicknamed that place ‘grave yard’ in them days. Can you ever remember that nickname?
Aye, yes.
R - They called it the Grave Yard.
And when, what year would that be Jack?
R – Eh, heck. Aye, let's see. Well we'll go this way it, it were that year when I were sixteen so you can reckon it from there.
1921.
R- It’d be 1921.
So that’d be the year, I reckon, ..I reckon..
R- It’d be 1920 or 1921. It’d be happen when I were fifteen or sixteen. I'll not swear which, how old I were..
I think..
R- Oh no I'd be fifteen, I'd be fifteen would a..
No, oh no, now hold on a minute, your persuading yourself because as far as I know..
R- No I'm not! I'm going off having that accident wi’ me hand when I were sixteen.
Aye.
R - And I were working. I’d be fifteen.
Aye.
R - I'd be fifteen when that accident occurred.
Well that must have happened soon after mill started then.
R- Oh aye, aye the mill weren’t, it weren’t full of …
Weren’t full of looms. That's just when it first started.
R - Yes when it, aye.
Aye. Because now you haven't given me a date yet for when it started but..
R- I can’t, I can’t. I don't know it's, I’d only be guessing. 'Cause you see it's something that's gone out of me mind a long, long time ago, you see what I mean.
That's all right, I'll tell you what we'll do..
R- I've nothing to remember the year by.
I’ll tell you what we'll do, we'll quietly fetch it back in. Can you remember 'em actually starting the engine the first time, were you there when they started it or about.
R- No, I don't think I'd be there when they started it. Happen the day after or sommat. I were there the first week when they were starting, going to run it you know.
That's it.
R- And run looms.
Now were it summer or winter?
R- No it’d be good weather.
Good weather?
R- I think it would be, aye.
Aye.
R- I don't think it’d be winter. Happen, no I don't know, I don't think so.
Can you remember it being cold. You know, no heating when you first started.
R – No, that's what I’m going off.
Yes.
R- Because it weren’t cold.
So, a good chance it were the spring of the year.
R- Spring of the year aye. It wouldn't be winter because I mean, I don't think they'd have, nobody would have stuck it in there.
Aye, wi’ no looms in.
R- because it’d have been starvation in there you know.
Yes. So it nearly looks as if it's going to be, now wait a minute if it were, ..if it were 1920 you'd be fifteen year old.
R- Yes. 1 would wouldn’t I.
Yes. Now would that be about right?
R- Aye I reckon it would, I'd be fifteen. I wouldn't be sixteen because I'd be sixteen in May as I had this accident in July wi’ that there. No I were fifteen..
[It took us a while to get there but we got it right in the end. I should explain that at that time I didn’t know the exact date Bancroft Engine started.]
Now what accident were that.
R - When I got me hand done.
Yes.
R- That's what 1’m going off see..
Yes.
R - I’d be fifteen because I'm only going back May, June, July from me birthday aren’t I.
Aye, that's it.
R- I were fifteen so you reckon it from that year.
So that's going to be most likely spring of 1920 when they started.
R- Yes. It would be an all.
Yes and you wouldn't be working there long before you had your accident with your hand.
R- Oh no, no.
A matter of like three or four month happen, something like that.
R- That's right, three, that's reight, yes it were long enough, I hated it.
Well, that's going to be, that's going to put it then, that's going to put it at spring of 1920.
R- Yes.
(35 min)
Early on in 1920 but not early enough to be cold.
R - I'd be fifteen wouldn't I?
Yes. You'd be fifteen and that’d be the same year.
R- May, June, July and then I'd be sixteen and I were sixteen when I had that accident..
Yes.
R- So I were fifteen when I were there, yes.
Now that accident you keep on about, course these tapes don't give pictures, you've got two fingers missing off your right hand. How did that happen?
R- I’ve, got three, three.
Three. Is there three missing?
R - There's nearly all the lot missing really.
Oh that's it. How did that happen?
R- Well, we were going swimming, I telled you we used to do a lot of swimming. So we're going swimming one night you know, going down Salterforth Lane and we goes through the quarry. Course if you see any open windows you, in them days you used to bob in and see what you could find, didn't you. So we went in and we found these here detonators, you know. So we like, I said, young Johnny Grimes were there, my mate so, “Eh hell, them's just right for making pencil cases on. I’ll have one or two of them.” you know, what do they call ‘em, detonators, what they blast wi’.
Mm, yes detonators aye.
R- They shove 'em on the end of the fuse.
Yes, that's it.
R- So I put about half a dozen of these here in me pocket and then we went swimming, thought nowt about it you know.
R- Anyway, when we’d been down we were coming up Salterforth Lane and I'm scratching this here bit of white stuff, bit of white, about that much, down in the bottom of t’doing's you know. I’m scratching it out when, WHAM! and it went off, blew, no messing whatever, just blew 'em clean off. I just said hell, what a bang, you know, to the lads and I looked round and I saw me fingers on the floor!
Aye.
R- And I looked, aye I did that lad, and I remember that as plain as the day.
SO now…
R- It just touched tip of that, see what I were pricking it with, see, point of that.
Aye.
R - And the tip of that, see, what I were pricking it wi’, see, point of that!
Aye.
R- Eh, can’t tha see it, tip of that and tip of that.
That's it aye.
R- Well I’d the pin in that hand see. It's a bloody good job, it could have blown us head off couldn't it.
And now, hang on. Nowadays when that happens, what you do is, you go to the nearest telephone box, dial 999 and get an ambulance, but like you couldn't do that then. So what did you do?
R- Well one on 'em must, there were a chap, I think there must have been somebody passing and they ran somewhere and I don't know how they got me home, in a milk float or sommat, they took me home.
Mrs. Platt.- They took you home in a milk float.
R- In a milk float, aye.
Mrs. Platt.- And you were laid all night before you went..
R - And then the doctor come up and he just looked at it, put a piece of wadding on about as big as that bucket there..
Aye.
R - And put it, just slapped it on and said that, and at morning they took me to Burnley in old Palmer’s, Harry Palmer’s father’s milk float to Burnley hospital, that were after a night in bed. Blood had gone reight through the bloody tick bed on to the bedroom floor, stained the floor.
Aye.
R- Aye. Tha can tell that were, that were them days of medical attention. All night wi’ that. It had gone, it were that. It were like that there padding, it had gone clean through it, through the bed.
Aye, through a foot of bed!
R- Aye.
So you’d lost some blood.
R- I had lost some blood, I couldn't stand up.
Aye. And when you got to hospital what did they do?
R- Just took me in and started telling me to try to count to a hundred and I think I got to sixty six afore I started choking ‘cause it were chloroform then tha knows.
Aye.
R- Not like it is to-day. Eh, gasping, eh, get this bloody thing off or sommat tha knows, Anyway I were a long while tha knows they telled me after, I’d 68 stitches in ‘em an all.
Sixty eight.
R- Aye sixty eight. It weren’t reight bad were it.
No, no.
R- 'Cause there were the palm of me hand and dosta know what that doctor said?
No.
R - He said, “If you hadn't have been so young" he said "I could have made a reight good job of that" he said “Because I'd have sliced it off wi’ your wrist”.
Aye.
R- He said "It’s only your youth".
Aye.
R - And he says "I'll tell you one thing". And I says what? He says “I can always put you a thumb back on” This is doctor Watson. I said “Oh can you”, tha knows 'cause I'm only sixteen. And he says “Yes, but you'll have one big toe missing". "Oh'' I says “Bugger that". Hee Hee! And he laughed every time he come past me bed. Aye he did. I'll allus remember that do.
(Laughter from Stanley)
R - I'm barn’to light a fag is it reight?
Aye course it is, aye.
R- Dosta want one?
Eh, no thanks, no, no. Aye, so you didn't want your big toe putting off.
R - I were in eight weeks there.
You were eight weeks in hospital.
(40 min)
And when you came out did you go back to the mill?
R - Oh no, that were out of it.
Yes.
R- I were a milk boy for Sandham, me and young Bobby Lambert, he's a joiner now, he has joiners shop now. Me and young Bobby. We run Tommy Sandham’s milk round for him 'cause he were allus boozing.
How long for?
R- Er .... happen twelve month. And then I went in the quarry.
You were still living at, aye well, we'll start wi’t quarry after.. We'll start wi’t quarry later, let's suck the juice out of the mill job first.
R- Aye.
So that were end of your career. You wouldn’t be reight worried about that would you, about losing [your fingers], about not being able to go back in mill.
R- I weren’t a bit worried that way. I were worried one way and still I were glad another way, it went two ways, you know what I mean. It's never seemed to hamper me, it's never hampered me a lot, I've gone on, this is the best part about it, I’ve gone on tests and all sorts for PSV's [Public Service Vehicles]and I worked wi’ a chap at the Ordnance Factory at Steeton two year and then I met him about ten year after
and he noticed me hand and he said “Cor Jack, when hasta done that?” I said “When I were sixteen". He said “Well it weren’t like that when you were at Steeton". I said “It were you know" Narthen what dosta think about that?
Aye.
R- And I took a driving test for a PSV and they used to have their head through the window then, watching tha knows. They never bloody knew, they never knew no. What dosta think about that? There were only one thing that I did, that I couldn't do reight and that were fasten this shirt sleeve.
Aye.
R - That were what hampered me most, but I get so I could fasten it as quick as t’other. It's surprising what you can get to do, you know,
Aye.
R- Narthen. I could work out there wi’ anybody and they couldn’t tell that there were sommat missing.
That's it.
R- Barring they'd think I were a left hander ‘cause I shovel left handed.
Mrs. Platt.- Tell him about the grandchildren.
I never notice. Never notice when I'm with you.
R- No, you see?
Aye, I never notice when I'm with you.
R- Narthen.
Aye. I mean I didn't, I knew you had some off but I didn't know how many you had off.
R- Aye. I’m not a left hander but I shovel left handed. Well you see, I've a penny an hour more than ordinary labouring when I were a bang hander when I were young. They used to like a left hander more because he were facing t’other way instead of all being one way.
Aye that's it, aye.
R - Eh..eh. They used to get a penny an hour more did bang handers.
Is that reight?
R - It's reight Is that. I'm going back a long while but they used to get a penny an hour more did bang handers. They called 'em bang handers then.
Yes.
R- Left handers. ‘Cause you see they were shovelling face to face instead of being..
(850)
That's it aye, 'cause it's awkward when you’re shovelling out of a heap and everybody's shovelling right handed.
R- Aye, I know it is, they're throwing it at thee.
Aye, John Plummer were a good lad for that, he could shovel either hand.
R- Aye.
I never could.
R - Aye, funny that.
Aye, 'cause if me and John were shovelling coal he used to say, “Oh this in no bloody good, move over here.”
R - Aye.
And he used to go and shovel left handed.
R- Aye yes. Well see, that’s where we had it.
Aye. I'll tell you where it's handy an all, if you can fire both handed, when you're firing a Lancashire boiler in a little stoke hole.
R- Aye I dare say it is, aye.
'Cause he used to, he used to fire one, but one side right handed and t’other side left handed.
R- Well I can shovel left handed better than reight handed because you see you get weight of it on that then.
Yes, that's it.
R- I get weight on it on this wi’ only having me hand on the handle see.
Yes. That's it aye. aye.
Mrs. Platt- Tell 'em you can paper hang. He can do owt can’t you Jack, really.
R- Oh aye I never get nobody to do owt in house, I do it all.
Now when you first went down to Coates that’d be on the old system then, they'd be on piece work, being paid by the cut and what not.
R- Oh yes, aye.
Yes, now how much a cut were they getting paid?
R- well…
Roughly, I know it varied.
R- To tell you the truth I couldn't name a price. Because for the simple reason why, I were only what you call a tenter. I’d no interest in money, of what they made as long as I got my two bob or half a crown.
That's it and who ware you tenting for when you were down there?
R- Well, tacklers wife once, then I got sacked wi’ her.
What did you get sacked wi’ her for?
(900)
R- Doing like I said you know, putting thread through and letting 'em pull away, and thinking they'd ends down and see, every time she went out I'd knock looms off and then when she were coming back I'd have ‘em all running and somebody telled her. He says “He knocks 'em off every time you go out and set's ‘em on again when he sees you coming back.” So that didn’t work. Then taking that wheel off were another.
Now come on, that isn't..
R- Me mother, me mother sacked me at finish! [laughs] She said I were better at home!
(Laughter from Stanley)
R- So I used to do what you call mug about, I'd do all errands for weavers down to Hadens, they had a shop down there and..
Aye.
R- I used to spend most of me time running errands down there for 'em.
Aye.
R - You know and one thing and another.
And when you were at Coates, were you actually sacked or did you move away from there with your mother.
(45 min)
R- Well, I weren’t actually sacked, they used to just say like go back to thee mother, tha knows.
Aye.
R- It were sacking in a way, but I mean you'd no stamps or cards nor nowt like that. When you were, they’d say it doesn’t matter for coming in the morning. Hee hee.
Aye, so you, so in’t finish your mother’d move. Your mother moved to…
R- From Coates she went to Calf Hall.
So you went with her and your Annie went with her an all and yet Annie’d have her own looms wouldn't she?
R- Yes, she had, yes.
So did they sort of decide between 'em that they'd move together. They'd work together would they?
(950)
R- They worked together aye.
What did they run between 'em?
R- Eight looms.
Eight loom between 'em.
A - Yes.
Aye, so really what it’d amount to, your mother and her daughter would be running eight loom between ‘em and you'd he tenting for ‘em.
R- Tenting for ‘em aye, and running. I'd fetch weft and that you know.
Aye.
R- I come in handy for that.
Aye that's it aye. Who carried cloth out?
R - Oh me, I carried and you know.
Did you plait it on the loom an all?
R- What do you mean?
Fold it on loom you know.
R- No, when they're pulling 'em off they do that you know.
Yes. That's it.
R - And then they just put 'em on, well I used to take 'em in as they pulled 'em off, you know, I were allus there like you see.
Yes. Aye. Right, that’ll do for that tape Jack.
SCG/22 December 2002
8,214 words.