THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON THE 17th of MAY 1979 AT 9 SACKVILLE STREET BARNOLDSWICK. THE INFORMANT IS JACK PLATT AND THE INTERVIEWER IS STANLEY GRAHAM.
Now then, as usual you've just been talking to me and we didn't have the tape on. About them brick kilns down Salterforth Drag.
R - Yes.
Now, so as you've described it to me, them brick kilns, as you go down Salterforth Drag, if you turn on the lane that goes on to Booth House Farm.
R - Stew Mill, do you know the Stew Mill?
Aye. It'll fetch you out at Stew Mill an all that lane won't it.
R- Yes.
The brick kiln ‘ud be on left down that lane.
R - Yes that's right, on that path.
Low side, at low side of lane there.
R- At low side of path.
Who ran it Jack, do you know?
R - No I don't. I couldn't tell you who ran it, whether it were them that owned the quarry or not I don't know. I couldn't tell you who ran it.
Aye. And when you knew it, was it working?
R- Yes it were working when I knew it at first.
Aye. When were that?
R - Oh let's see. Oh, how old am I? Seventy four? Oh sixty five year since.
Sixty five, so that ‘ud be about 1914 about beginning of the Great War, aye.
R- Happen a bit later. I can’t pin point it because it's sommat..
You'd be about nine or ten year old.
R- Aye that's reight, ten or eleven or twelve. I’ll put it that way.
Oh well, that's going to make it about 1916/17.
R- Yes, you know.
In other words just before you started, just before you went back to Rawtenstall.
R - That's right yes.
Aye. And it were working then?
R - Yes it were working then, yes.
And you say there were a chimney there as well.
R - Oh there were a chimney.
That ‘ud be a brick chimney would it?
R - Brick chimney aye.
Aye.
R- Aye there’s barn to be you know at a brick kiln, hasn’t there.
Aye that's it aye. And what would they be making bricks out of? Because they wouldn't have clay round here would they?
R- They'd shale.
Out of quarry?
R- Yes.
Aye.
R - They'd clay an all. Remember, in a quarry there's always shale and there's always clay isn't there.
Aye. Oh I didn't know whether they'd have enough. I didn't know whether they'd have enough.
R- Well, that's happen why it were only a little kiln.
Aye.
R - They'd happen like be doing part with the stone and doing part with the shale. Because there were a fair deep big bed of shale. Well they'd be using their shale up that way instead of carting it away wouldn't they.
Aye, that's it.
R - 'Cause they didn’t get rid of all their old rubbish and all that in them quarries until they made that New Road you know.
Aye.
R - And then I mean they were carting daily from there for months and months and months, well all the time weren’t they.
I don’t know. I wasn't about when they built New Road Jack.
(50)
R - Yes well, there used to be some big tips you know. They used to tip anywhere where there were spare ground below. That's where you get all them lumps in the ground, you know, hills going down Salterforth Lane, left hand side and right. They’re all tips out of quarry.
Aye especially on the left.
R - What you call rubble you know.
Aye.
R. Yes. Well, when New Road started they got rid of all, a lot of them you know. So they did at Sagars quarries and all you know.
Aye. Now just let's get one thing straight about that Jack. There’d be, really there's three quarries there. There's one either side of the drag and one above at Tubber Hill. [Loose Games]
R - That's right.
Now Tubber Hill were Sagar’s.
R- That’s right yes.
Aye. Now were those two on either side of Salterforth drag, were they separate quarries?
R- Separate quarries.
And who run them?
R- Well up to me knowing it, Whitham, he were. But he were a pork butcher weren’t he. He were a pork butcher once and then he lived in the end house. He lived in that first house did Whitham and he owned that quarry. Now before then, I don't know. Oh, Moss and Whitham it were you know, Billy Moss. Billy Moss and Whitham, and then it finished off with just Whitham’s you know.
Yes, now which quarry were that. That one that's Gibbie's now?
R- Pardon.
Was that the one that's Gibbie’s now.
(5 min)
R - To the other one.
So that’s the one on the....
R - Right going down the hill.
No, right hand side Is Gibbie’s coming down the hill.
Mrs. Platt- Yes it’s t’other as is the scrap yard.
R- Gibbie’s! Oh I thought you meant scrap were Gibbie’s.
Well one's a car breakers yard, Pickles. And the other's a scrap yard, that's Gibbie’s isn't it.
R- Well them that has that on right hand side going down hill now. I don't know their name.
Well that's Gibbie’s. That's Gibson’s.
R- Oh! Course it's Gibson’s, them wi’ them …yes, aye.
Aye and so, who owned the quarry on the left hand side coming down Jack?
R- From me knowing it, Sagar’s.
Sagar’s. So they had..
R- John Sagar. Course the land, it were leased off Sir Amos Nelson really weren’t it.
I don't know. [Later I found out that Jack was right. Both Tubber Hill (Loose Games) and Salterforth Quarry were leased from Gledstone Estate. Park Close Quarry (Gibson’s) was originally part of the Bracewell Estate as was the brickworks. See the 1887 sale document when the Estate was sold off.]
R- But Sagar had it ever from me knowing it.
Aye, so he had top quarry at Tubber hill..
R- And he had that quarry.
And the one on the left hand side.
R- And he’d one behind the water works. On behind the water works.
Had they a quarry there an all?
R - Oh aye.
I didn’t know that.
R- Yes but they didn't do no sawing there. They, you know, stone saws, they’d none of them there.
Aye.
R- But there were at Tubber gill and there were at Salterforth Lane.
Aye. Now Sagars in the top quarry, did they do the same things in the top quarry and bottom quarry? Sagars?
R - Yes. But top quarry were what you call sandstone, it were a lot softer than the bottom quarry, although they were only that [small] distance apart.
(100)
Aye.
R - But it were like, it had a bluish tint wi’ it a lot of it down Salterforth Lane. That were very hard stone.
And what did they use that for?
R- Well people used to want hard stone and some used to want only sand stone because sandstone were allus a nice brown colour you see.
Aye,
R- Now in the other you get like a pale bluish tint in it.
Aye.
R- If ever you see any stone, good stone and it's like, sometimes bluish if it's broke. It’ll not show when it's been weathered.
No.
R- That's come from that bottom quarry because it were noted to be the hardest stone around here for, well out of distance. It went all over.
Aye. So were there any big block stone in that bottom quarry of Sagars?
R - Block stone?
Aye big blocks.
R - Oh yes. That's why they had to have rock getters, there’d be pieces that weighed a hundred ton until it were broke up.
Aye.
R- You see, beds, there’d be a bed say ten foot deep, eight foot deep, but it ‘ud run like length of these houses you know.
Aye. aye.
R - Well you see they'd to drill and then blast.
Aye.
R - But it went down in beds and there were allus like shale then. There were allus shale underneath beds of rock. You know, from one bed to another you allus come across two or three inches of shale. That's why they used to drill. Cut the piece and then they'd put a big dog hole in. We called ‘em dog holes. And they'd have one dog on the hook, on the crane, and Albert used to make this reight big dog hole and they'd put it in till the crane tightened up reight slowly and then he’d get away and he’d keep lifting it until it slurred off the shale and it ‘ud fetch it off.
Aye.
R- Pieces twenty ton at a time, thirty ton.
Aye.
R- And it ‘ud drop down in the bottom and then they'd cut it again you see while it were down in bottom.
When they cut it, when it were down in the bottom, they’d do it wi’ plugs and feathers wouldn't they, they wouldn't....
R- Plugs and feathers when they come out, but they hadn't come out then, it were all wedges. Because they used to come down to the saw mill and ask if they wanted any certain lengths of stone, same as if they were sawing jambs they'd want twelve footers. Cills, owt like that and then they'd cut it to that length you see, well they'd give you like..
Aye.
R- Say eight inch to spare four inch at each side, you know. For the masons working on 'em.
Aye. All I were asking about that were, you know you'd think that if that were good hard stone, if there were any engine beds wanted, that's where they'd come out of, out of there.
R- they’d come out of Salterforth. There’s blocks gone away for that, I know there has. Like three ton at a time and four ton. I’m not saying, no massive ones, but you know blocks, we called 'em blocks,
Yes.
R- Well we allus called 'em blocks up to eight ton, nine ton.
Aye. How much work would they do, if somebody wanted big blocks like that for big foundations you know, like for an engine. How much work would they do on ‘em at the quarry, they wouldn't do a lot on 'em at quarry really would they apart from splitting 'em out to size?
(10 min)
R- There’d be about two or three men wi’ a stone pick apiece, not a muck pick what you see. You know they’re sharpened at both ends and like it’s surprising what big lumps they can fetch off you see.,
Aye if you know where you're hitting it.
R- If you know how you're hitting it. Because there's bed and bore, there's bed and bore, you see. You could get a piece of stone a foot thick and you can put it flat and you can hammer away and not break it all day. But you can turn it up, what you call bed up, and there used to be what you call pean end of an hammer, them big hammers. And hit it wi’ that and it ‘ud slice it like bread like that you know.
Aye. Now what did you call that? Bed and bore?
R- Bed and bore.
B o r e like?
R- Aye that's right, there were bed way and bore way.
So that's like grain running either way.
R- Oh yes definitely, because they allus were bed up you see in the quarry. The way it were formed, bed up.
Aye.
R- Now if you lifted a piece up like that it were bore up.
[On end if you will. With the grain running vertical.]
Aye.
R- And it ‘ud. slice down like that, that's why it were allus quicker to saw one bore up than what it were bed up.
Aye.
R- 'Cause it were allus harder to go through one solid, that were like really solid, were bed up instead of bore up.
Aye.
R- You could alter your picker on your stone saw to make it go another inch an hour you know. [Increase the number of strokes a minute.]
Aye.
R- Because you could only saw … Tubber Hill quarry, I’ll tell you the difference between Tubber Hill quarry and Salterforth because I were in charge of the saws. I set all the saws down there. And anybody’ll tell you the same who knew where I worked because I worked twenty year up there you know. You could saw seven inch to the hour at Tubber Hill on a good stone. You were lucky to get above four down in the bottom.
Aye, wi’ the same sort of saws.
R- And your blades didn't last, well they would last… You know sometimes they say they don't last half as long, but they didn't last as long down in the bottom quarry as they did in the top, they took a lot more shot. That's that like steel shot, diamond steel. They called it diamond steel, you know. 'Cause you see, your ..your saw worked on swingers, you know, arms, and when it went to it’s length like, it lifted a bit and these taps over used to wash that shot down the cracks and they'd get under your blades and they were sawing on steel. As they got sharp you'd to pull 'em out. If they got sharp. They were about that thick, we'll say eighth of an inch thick were the blades when they were new you know, eighth of an inch. Now if a blade got sharp, instead of sawing six inch like, it ‘ud get this sharp edge on, it ‘ud start running out
like this and it ‘ud come, it ‘ud start going to six and half, seven, eight, you see what I mean.
Yes, aye.
R- See, you'd to wind up, wind your saw up, change your blade and you'd to rub it then with one blade while it caught up to t’others.
Aye till you got another face you were, that's it aye.
R- And there used to be like two cracks. Aye.
Aye and who were. I’m interested in this quarry job. Now did the quarry company themselves, we'll talk about Sagars. Did Sagars cart most of their own stone or did they have other people carting for 'em.
R- No they carted their own stone unless there were a push on and then they'd hire one.
Aye.
R- Emmott Garnett or Aspin.
Aye.
R- Oh, I knew one or two. Same as when they were on with that road at Skipton, they'd about six different firms on, all Barlickers. When, if they'd nowt to do in Barlick. Harry Platt down there, him and his father had a wagon, well they allus had. They used to all come and do part up there. Run a load of [rubble] out of the tips. Load up and go to, what did they call that out of Skipton, that big new road?
Snaygill.
R – Yes, even I were leading on there. [leading = carrying, hauling.]
Aye.
R - I were leading on there when a chap discovered a big box of jewellery on there. I wish I'd have discovered that! And it had been stolen from Fattorini’s. {jewellers at Bradford]
Aye.
R - Chaps were in jail what had stolen it. So like when they come out, their hiding place had been dug up! Aye its reight is that.
(Stanley and Jack both laugh.)
Aye, and when did they build that road there then Jack, Snaygill?
R - Oh let's see, what wagon were I on then, I can tell thee better when I get wagon. I'd be on the old Dennis when I'd just started. So that ‘ud be, I’d be about, how old were I when I were married? I were on the Dennis when I got married weren’t I Mona? Twenty three, on that old Dennis. Aye I were either twenty two or twenty three.
That ‘ud be about nineteen, so that ‘ud be about 1928 then.
R- Aye that's reight.
Aye,
(15 min)
R - Yes. I might be out on it, happen a year but I can’t be so far away.
Aye well it's near enough, near enough. So Sagars, were they on motor haulage then?
R - Oh Sagars. Oh they always had two little wagons.
Aye.
R - You see when they got two, me sister’s husband drove there, he drove first ‘un, well he drove from me knowing it, they'd only one before then and it were an old Roma. They called it a Roma.
(250)
Aye.
R - Anyway they got a Dennis, an old army wagon and they had a cab put on it 'cause when it came it had the old sheet. The old canvas you know.
Aye.
R - And then I, and then they bought a Leyland. Now I used to, odd times they'd to take a second man wi’ ‘em. If it was a place where they couldn’t tip and Billy used to take me and also learn me as I were taking it.
Who were Billy?
R - Billy Spensley, he's dead now, it's our Annie’s husband.
Aye.
R- So when they got this Leyland, they put me on the Dennis. Did I ever tell you about that?
Yes, you told me about putting it in the dyke, putting it in the field aye.
R- Well that's when he [John Sagar]come one morning and he said I want you to get the Dennis out. He never did say wagon, he said get t’Dennis out and go on to Foulridge wi’ a load of random, aye.
So then when you started, I mean really that were the start of your wagon driving career, when you started then.
R- Yes it were.
There’d be no such thing as a Heavy Goods Licence or owt like that.
R – No. When I started I were seventeen. I wonder how old? I were only seventeen when I started Mona. Oh I’d be that old when I told you, I were seventeen when old John told me to get this here wagon out because I got summonsed, I got caught on the road somewhere and I got summonsed for not being older. And I got fined ten bob, I were fined about three times before I actually got a licence but it were only ten bob and he paid.
And so there’d be, so then there’d be. This in what we're talking about, you were about seventeen, eighteen, this is about 1922/23. There’d be just an ordinary licence.
R - Just a, I’ll tell you how I got it. I got an envelope and a piece of paper, a five shilling postal order and put on, Dear Sir, I enclose five shillings. Will you please send driving licence, name and address. And my driving licence come.
Aye.
R – Now then..
No test or anything.
R - Oh no.
No.
R - Just that five shilling to Skipton.
That's it. So now wait a minute, so there were no test, there were just one sort of driving licence that covered anything.
R - That's right.
There’d be no log books.
R - Oh no, no log books, no.
No, no log books..
R- You could have driven from Monday morning to Saturday dinner! Hee hee!.
That's it. And what were the speed limit?
R - Twelve mile an hour.
(300)
Twelve mile an hour.
R - Yes.
R- And I’ll tell you something. I wore summonsed for being reckless and not fit to be on the road at Nelson centre. Going through Nelson. Seventeen mile an hour! I thought they were going to hang me!
Aye.
R – Narthen. And I get done thirty, fifty shilling for being reckless and when I come back I telled old John and he says “Well, I telled thee tha’d finished when tha did that” ‘cause it were Christmas or sommat and we were coming to that party of yours Mona. [What John was saying was that he had plenty of time as it was his last load and he shouldn’t have been speeding.]
What year were this then Jack?
R- Oh it were when I were courting.
Well you've been married fifty year.
R - It ‘ud happen be in 1923. It’d happen be when I were twenty three that would be.
Aye twenty three that's about 1928.
R - Aye. And I thought they were going to take me licence and everything off me. I get done fifty shilling and I’d to pay and I says I have nowt. I hadn’t.
Aye,
R- I’d like stopped wagon and got into court you know.
Aye.
R- Course he’d sent me wi’ a load to go and deliver after I come out of court. Aye. Well, when I came back I told him, I said “I got fined fifty shilling and it has to be paid by Saturday.” That were it, or else I'd to go down for fourteen days. That were it. He says “Well tha'll have to go down because I telled thee tha’d finished work when tha come back. Tha'd all afternoon to do that trip so tha'll have to pay.” I said “I can’t, I have nowt.” He said “Well you'll have to pay out of your wage” I said “I’d have to work a fortnight to pay it then.” Anyway he paid it.
(20 min)
How much were your wage?
R- Oh it ‘ud be about going up for thirty bob then.
Aye.
R - I said “I'd have to work a fortnight for that.”
R - I said “Anyway I'm not driving it no more.” So like wi’ saying that he must have thought oh well. So he give it me but I never forgot it that fifty bob.
Aye. And were you flat out at seventeen mile an hour or could you have gone faster?
R- Flat out, oh reight down to t’floor boards.
(Jack and Stanley laugh)
R- Hee hee! I wore a hole nearly in t’floor boards me, our Annie’s husband used to play heck wi’ me you know.
Aye.
R- Aye, “What's that” I mean for a lad of my age what were that. I'll tell you sommat. I were once coming home, this is reight, and there were a policeman at Barrowford, he were a reight bugger were this, Ginger they called him. And I were coming, knocking on nicely you know, not hurrying, I’d be doing happen twelve to fourteen mile and hour, you know. He rides up at side of me on his bike you know. It were open, no curtains up at side you know, instead of windows there were a big hole at side were tha were driving.
(350)
And he were on his bike?
R- And he were on his bike. He said “Thi tail lights out!” And then he pedalled on and left me.
Aye.
R – Eh, you wanted a box of matches every time you went out in t’dark wi’ them paraffin lamps tha knows.
Is that what they were?
R- Head lights an all. Head lights an all, I used to have to shine 'em every Sunday morning, it's the only thing I cleaned on th’old Dennis. You know Shinio, ‘cause they were like brass does.
Aye.
Mrs. Platt. - And solid tyres weren't they.
R - Oh aye, solid tyres. I used to like having to go for tyres ‘cause I got three bob a tyre tha knows.
Aye.
R- I mean if you only went for two on, tha'd six bob, that were more than what you got to spend, tha knows.
Aye.
R - A full set, like it were what, eighteen bob weren’t it.
What were that, a back hander or were that for the old tyre?
R – Aye, they telled [nobody]. Driver got that.
R- Bosses didn't know.
Where did you used to go for tyres then?
R- Tillotson's at Burnley. Aye. Top of Manchester Road. Fairly big place, it used to be half a day getting a set on.
Aye.
R- I used to love. I used to like to watch 'em tha knows. They’d press 'em off, then they’d like just rub the wheel wi’ a bit of an old wire brush you know and then put canvas strips on aye.
Aye.
R - Canvas strips and then like, it were a dead fit but they used to force it on wi’ this here big like, it were like a big ram. And tha knows wi’ canvas being on it used to go down slow. I used to like to watch ‘em. It had some pressure because you never knew one of them to start working off. They were like a dead fit. But there were still about six strips of canvas that they put on that wide, and it forced 'em ower that you see.
Yes.
R - That's why they'd to be forced off and on. When you went in they had like gauge's and they used to set ‘em under the rims, you know, one on to your wheel rim off theirs and then set it on and it 'ud gradually, you know. Because it had to be just like plumb on to your rim.
Aye.
R- Course it were a fair rim, that thick you know was your rim.
Aye. About quarter of an inch thick. Aye.
R - So they had things a purpose you know, to fit on them like, and just slightly curved to put on, you know.
Aye.
R - It were interesting, I used to like watching 'em, Then I had three blew up tha knows. Aye, fag off the lads.
Aye. It ‘ud be a day out. So you were, you’d be driving the wagon fairly regular up to… [going to Steeton]
R - Oh yes, I did drive regular because I went on a Leyland after that, a new Leyland, brand new ‘un.
Aye.
R - Oh aye.
(400)
Were that still solid tyres.
R- Oh they were still solid tyres I never drove on pneumatics up there.
Aye.
R- They were solids when I finished.
Aye and were them paraffin lamps or had you got on to acetylene?
R- Oh acetylene. Hee hee!
Oh you've got on to acetylene lamps now have you?
R - Aye bye god, you had to fill 'em wi’ carbide. What do they call that stuff?
Aye, carbide.
R – Carbide, I blew the bloody lid off. Hee hee! I did! You couldn't light ‘em because you'd put too much water in or sommat.
Aye.
R - Did sommat anyway, I know there were this stink and then WHAM! Hee hee!
Aye. (Stanley laughs)
R - Anyway we get used to 'em 'cause he used to have it fixed on to the chassis you know, and then rubber pipe, a bit of pipe, and then rubber pipes, you know, to your tail light.
Oh so you had a central, you had a generator on the wagon itself?
R – Aye.
Separate from the lamps?
R- Aye, hooked on your chassis.
Aye and piped up to the lights.
R- And piped up. Well you used to have to make your own gas in this here.
That's it aye,
R- It were about that deep, you know. A circular do.
About a foot deep.
R - Aye and a foot across it, in circumference you know.
Aye.
R – Hee hee. I've come home 'bout lights many a time from Barrowford.
(25 min)
You never met nowt. It were too much trouble to keep getting out and keep lighting things tha knows. If it were moonlight you could see one another.
Aye.
R- And I mean you could come from Barrowford to Barlick and I bet there weren’t three times in the week when you met owt.
Aye.
R - Well there were only them that bought wagons that had 'em then, that had owt on the road. Mostly horses and that in them days weren’t they.
Aye that's it.
R - In the old Dennis days.
How did you go on wi’, I mean like in them days, wagons I mean. It ‘ud. be the heaviest thing that were on the road.
R - Oh yes, aye.
How did you go on for bursting through the road and things like that, and if you got too close to the edge, breaking through you know. Because roads wouldn’t really be built for things like that would they.
R- Oh no, well I mean, there were some rough roads you know, but mind you, once you got to Barrowford it were all pavings. Paving stones you know, to Burnley.
You mean setts.
R – Setts, setts.
Aye.
R - Because I mean we used to load, take hundreds of tons of setts you know, out there.
Aye.
(450)
R- Boat loads an all they used to send.
Aye you were on about it last week, taking boat loads to Burnley.
R- Macadam hadn't come in to go then.
No.
R - No it were all paving.
So these roads round here ‘ud be.
R- Tram lines you know, when you got in Barrowford you'd tram lines.
Aye. These ‘ud be water bound then these roads round here? They'd be like water bound Macadam road. They wouldn’t be Tarmac.
R- Aye they were, they were only like th’old steam roller and every so far you’d have an old chap sat on the road, what you call chipping. [Knapping stone.]
Aye.
A – He’d sit there all day breaking stones up.
Aye.
R - I can just picture th’old lad now on White Moor, he’d have a pile from here, oh nearly half length of this row of houses.
Aye.
R - Where carts had tipped 'em up and he’d be sat breaking big ‘uns up, you know. Making ‘em go further. Well they'd mend the road wi’ them.
Yes. And them fellows, were they paid by the council for knapping that stone.
R- Oh aye they were council men.
Aye.
R- That's what, that's what Poor Bones were for.
Now that's what, what?
R- Poor bones.
Aye.
R- That, that bit of.. It used to be full of them and there used to be an old fellow sat in there didn’t there Mona, when we went to school?
Mrs. Platt.- Yes.
R- He’d be sat in there knapping.
That's it, now what we’re talking about is that little yard at the top of that field I used to own at, well, at the top of Barlick Lane.
R - Aye that's right.
Top of Barlick Lane there.
R- That’s right, Poor Bones we allus called it.
Were did it get that name from?
R - I don't know but I’ve never known it wi’ owt else only Poor Bones have we Mona?
Mrs. Platt- No it were always known as that.
Aye, Poor Bones, I’ve never heard [it called that]..
R - Poor Bones, Poor Bones.
[I later found that the yard was used by Skipton Workhouse to provide work for people on Outdoor Relief, they weren’t in the workhouse but in their own homes and they had to do work to qualify for relief. So I think this is where the name originated.]
Aye that's it aye.
R - And that old fellow, I can just picture him now sat in there. He’d allus have a sack round him.
Yes.
R- And he hadn't sack at front, he had it to his arse to keep, tha knows, when he were sat down.
Aye, guard against the piles.
R- Aye well, like it went all the way round him because he’d be sat on a stone you know. Tha knows, and it [the knapping hammer] ‘ud be a shaft about that long.
About two foot.
R- Wi’ a little solid hammer like, about that long you know.
Yes, aye.
R - A little solid ‘un. Eh aye, there were one or two of them.
Aye. So how were the brakes on them old wagons?
R- Oh! Hee hee! Well!
I thought I'd make thee laugh.
R - I'll put it this way tha knows..
Yes.
(500)
R- Tha'd be able to get thee brake on and then get hold of the wheel and press on like this tha knows, tha weren’t sat on thee seat! Hee hee!
(Stanley laughs)
R - And then tha were going like hell down Tubber Hill. If tha didn't put it in bottom gear tha’d no chance at all.
Aye.
R - If tha come to a hill, like it wore allus best to stop if tha could do.
Aye.
R – I’ve run in the dyke a time or two down Salterforth Lane.
Aye.
R- Because I've been swanking and thought this’ll take it down. Well be the time I were getting to the bottom I were getting the wind up!
Aye.
R- 'Cause there's a fair old corner at bottom tha knows.
That's it aye. And it ‘ud be worse in them days.
R - And then see there were like, well you relied more on your hand brake them days because your foot brake were nowt. It were only like worked off your cam shaft tha knows, off there and it were a bit of a do ower [the drum]wi’ a liner on just like owt else.
On the prop-shaft?
R- Aye on the prop-shaft you know.
Aye. So, and I mean it wore just, like it were a transmission brake.
R- And it were aside of thee gear box, well I mean, it used to get all oil on tha knows.
(30 min)
Aye.
R- So like they used to put the hand brake on and then like tha'd to get right down tha knows and pull it a notch and then tha’d pull it. Oh no, they were shove ons then. I allus remember because you used to get thee hand behind it like this.. Your foot. Thee foot behind it and push. Aye. And then push it another and then another. And then when you get to the bottom of the bloody hill tha couldn't take it off.
Aye.
R- It used to stop and then you used to have to, it were a hell of a job releasing it.
Aye.
R - Because you used to have to prise back and shove tha knows and try to fetch it back with your other foot as tha pressed tha knows.
Aye.
R - You could get hold of catch at top, press and then get thee other foot under and press wi’ one and fetch it back wi’ t’other.
Aye. Where did the hand brake work then?
R - On your cam shaft. on your..
On the prop-shaft just same.
R- On the prop-shaft aye.
Aye. So that were the only brake there were, there weren’t any on the wheels?
R - Oh no, there were just a, like a drum brake. A drum fit on to thee shaft.
Aye.
R- And that were like..
Same as the brake on a crane. [An external band with a friction liner]
R- Same as the brake on a crane. I were just going to tell thee that, just same.
Aye. Yes aye.
R- That's all it were.
Aye a band round the outside.
R - It used to get greased up.
(550)
Yes.
R - Because I mean many a time at weekend, we’d loosen 'em off, take the split pins out tha knows, bolts out, and wash 'em wi’ petrol tha knows. So we could have a ..
Aye. A good brake for Monday morning.
R- Aye.
Aye. Anyway, you went from there, you went on to Steeton and how long were you at Steeton?
R - Oh just short of two year.
That were on munitions.
R- On munitions aye.
I know, you told me last week.
R- I hated it.
I know, you told me last week about trying to get out,
R- Aye try, aye.
Just how did you get out in the finish?
R- John Wild got me out.
Ah, now this is John Wild, old John, haulage contractor,
R- Yes John.
Yes.
R- Because of, I’d tried all ways and then I saw old John one day and he asked me how I were doing and I telled him and he says “Do you like?” and I says “No!” Mind you it were good money. I dropped a lot of money, I should have stuck it but
I couldn't stick it. When you can’t ..anyway apart from that I saw John and he says “I can get you off if you'll come to me.” On what you call some sort of a, some sort of a do you were.. they didn't call you up. I said “I'm not bothered about that John.” I said “I’ve been twice.” I said “They've turned me down, only grade four.” I said “I've been volunteering and I've been called up.” I says “I don’t want to go on to no job like that ‘cause me hand stopped me from passing the grade” didn't I Mona?
Mrs. Platt.- Yes.
R - I were called up and I went, I went to Preston and he said “There could be a chance to get you on as an instructor” you see.
Aye.
R- He says “Anyway if there is we'll let you know” so I mean he [John Wild] weren’t bothered about that, then he get me on, but I'd to get a PSV licence.
Aye.
R - You see because it were for coaching, taking prisoners out, smashing job you know, taking prisoners from Skipton to different places where they worked on farms.
(600)
Where were the prisoner of war camp at Skipton then?
R- What did they call it, sommat like Overdale or sommat. Up, you know as you go to the top of Skipton. Straight up right, not Grassington way t’other way.
Harrogate road.
R - Aye, aye, and then it wore on the left, Overdale. They called it Overdale Camp didn't they.
Oh, where that caravan camp is now?
R- Is there a caravan, aye it will be.
Aye just where the gateway to Skipton Rock is.
R – On the left hand side. That's reight aye.
Oh, is that what that used to be?
R - Aye it were Overdale camp.
Aye.
R - Oh we used to, we’d one…
So John had the contract for..
R- One, two, three coaches on them. On prisoners.
Mrs. Platt.- Italians weren’t they.
R- Italians, mine were Italians, a good bunch were mine. Mark Cann had Germans. His were nowt but mine were good ‘uns.
Who was the other fellow?
R - Mark Cann.
Aye.
R- He's died now has Mark.
Yes.
R - And then there were John himself.
Yes.
R - John Wild.
Was he driving as well, John?
R - John always drove. He nearly drove all the time.
Aye, and where were Wild's garage then?
R - Cobden Street,
Aye. Now tell me sommat, something I’ve been wanting to know for a bit.
R- But we’d another you know beside that, it were down at th’old foundry, it were where foundry were.
Aye where Ouzeldale is.
R - No, t’other foundry.
I mean the original Ouzeldale, Forty Steps.
R- No.
Oh you mean down at..
R- Down at New Mill.
Where Brown and Pickles built the foundry, no well, where Henry Brown built that foundry. It's Gissing & Lonsdale's now.
R - That's right,
That's right aye. Now tell me sommat I want to know. Just above Bancroft there, on the side of the road there's a concrete pad and there’s a petrol tank underneath.
R - Yes well that were Wild’s garage, it were washed away wi’ the flood.
Narthen, .now when were that Wild's garage?
R- Up to the big flood,
(35 min)
That were 1922 weren’t it? [July 1932 actually]
R- Well it washed it away and they took that what Emmott Garnett had, that in Cobden Street.
Aye. So they went into Cobden Street when that got washed away.
R- When that got washed away.
That's it, that's solved, that's solved a bit of a mystery for me.
(650)
R- Yes because it washed it away completely.
I can remember you telling me years and years ago that that used to be Wild's garage and I’ve asked no end of folk and they didn’t know.
R- No they won't do, but it were. I'll bet you'll find an old petrol tank under..
It's still there..
R- Aye I knew it would be.
It's still there, you can see the top of the petrol tank.
R - Can you?
Yes.
R - I knew it would be 'cause I know it had never been took up.
Yes it's still there. Aye so that were where, that were where John Wild started?
R- Yes that's right.
Aye, so he’d start there like in about 1920 sometime like that? When would it be? Any idea when he first started.