THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON AUGUST 15TH 1979 AT 26 HARGREAVES DRIVE, RAWTENSTALL. THE INFORMANT IS JIM RILEY, MULE SPINNER AT SPRING VALE MILL. THE INTERVIEWER IS STANLEY GRAHAM.
Right Jim, we are getting on fairly well. Now, I have already asked you about what your father did. What sort of hours did he work Jim?
R - The hours was half past seven until half past five and some mornings he used to go in early at seven o'clock. Some mornings, not every morning but it just depends if he’d certain colours to mix up you know? For to get ready for the printers.
How long a dinner hour did they have?
R - Half an hour.
Half an hour. So he was doing a nine and a half hour a day.
R- Nine and a half hour a day.
Aye, it’s a fair do regular. And I've asked you before if you'd any idea what his wage were. Would you have any idea what his wage were?
R- No I don't know and I couldn’t tell you what it were his wage, no.
Would it be, a colour man, would it be a fairly well paid job?
R - It were a pretty good, it were a well paid job, it were a good job were mixing colours.
(50)
Like could you equate that with say an overlooker’s job? You know, or something like that nowadays you know?
R- Yes, I think you could.
Yes. About on the same level in the mill. And do you know whether he was paid holiday pay, was he paid for his holidays do you know?
R- I don't think they had holiday pay then.
Now, you've mentioned about him doing a bit of watch repairing and hair cutting.
R - Hair cutting, yes,
Did he have any part-time jobs? You know, did he ever, I know you mentioned that he were pretty good singer, did he sing in the clubs to make money, or did he just sing for enjoyment?
R- No, not to make money. All as he did where he got paid for doing it were cutting people's hair. That’s the only thing he did. But, no he didn't go round like, being a collector for anything or anything like that you know?
A lot of people did like you know, used to have part-time jobs.
R- Part-time jobs, yes.
Can you ever remember him having an accident at work?
R – No, he has had trouble with dermatitis in his hands. That's caused through colour.
(100)
Aye.
R- Mixing colours yes, and he has that today, to this day, dermatitis. And he has to wear gloves when they break out you see? And he gets a rash all on the back of his hands.
Yes. And he reckons that's with…?
R- It’s with colours, yes, he reckons it's through that.
Can you ever remember him being out of work through sickness?
R - No, not for any length of time, you know he probably had odd days off like because of a bout of flu or something like that.
Yes. That’s it aye.
R- ... or something like that, but not serious illnesses.
Aye. Can you ever remember him being on strike or out of work, on short time?
R- They did do some short time a few times but not a right lot, just odd times.
What would that be? Trade? .. bad trade?
R – Yes when .. like trade recession you know, it were just things were a bit dicey a time or two.
(5 min)
How did that, did that make any difference to you at home? Could you see any difference at home, did you have to pull your horns In a bit?
R- Oh you just, Like we had not so much wage coming in because he were the wage earner were me dad you know?
That's it, aye, he were the only one.
R - You see, and he were the only wage earner up to us starting work you see?
Yes. Well I’ll get round to that. Do you know whether he belonged to a trade union?
R- I think you've asked me that haven't you? No?
No I don't think so, no.
R – No, I don't know whether he did or not.
(150)
No, I asked you about political parties before.
R- Yes, you did.
Now, before you started full time did you ever have a part-time job? Did you do any work at all before like delivering papers or owt like that?
R- I used to do yes when I were at school, delivering papers. I were a paper boy, I used to do nights after school you know. I didn't do them, at morning, I did them at nights, and Saturday mornings.
Yes. How much did you get for that Jim?
R- I think it were about 7/0.
Yes. So that’d be like probably six nights a week and Saturday mornings wouldn’t it? There’d be papers Saturday night as well wouldn’t there?
R- Yes there were the Saturday night paper, yes.
Right yes. And what did you do with that money? That money that you earned for the papers, was that yours?
R- That was mine for to spend yes.
That were your spending money.
R – Yes, I used to keep that.
Yes. Now I’ve already asked you what you did when you left school and you went into the slipper works didn't you?
R- Yes.
Now I asked you then if there was anything different, you know, you said that there was nothing different than slippers and textiles. Was there nothing at all? No engineering you know, railway, were there any railway work when you left school?
R - Oh yes there were, there was railway but 1 wasn't interested in going on to the railways or engineering. Same as I said, I weren't just clever enough for engineering and I never bothered do you know?
(200)
And then me father got this job for me at Ilex Mill you see and he said “We’ll go down when you leave school and we’ll see about it.”
Now when you went down there. Was that your first job?
R- Yes.
And you did tell me what your wage were, were It nineteen shillings and…
R – Nineteen and six.
Nineteen and six yes. What did you do with that wage? Were you tipping up?
R- Well, I did. I did tip up but not it all, but my parents said 1 could keep my first week’s wage, which were the normal thing then for your first week. They said '”You can keep it” but I did tip some of it up and I kept some but I give me mother some of it.
Yes. Round Barlick it seemed to be fairly common, of course this is going back a lot farther, when they were tipping up they used to got about penny in each shilling for themselves. Do you think you were getting more than that? That’d mean you’d he getting about two bob when you'd tipped up, would you be getting more than that?
R- Oh no, I’d get more than that, yes I got more than two bob yes.
Aye. That’s interesting thing is that, especially with big families. But going back a bit further than we are talking about in 1945. That was when a lot of people bought their houses, when they had a lot of children out working and tipping up you know. But anyway, now when you were working down there how long were you there?
R - six weeks.
(250)
Six weeks! Now then, you're smiling a bit when you say that? Go on, tell me what happened at that shop.
R- Well, It were a boring job, I didn’t like it and I couldn’t settle.
What exactly were you doing there?
R - I were on a clicking machine stamping heels for slippers.
Yes, out of leather?
R- Out of leather yes.
And that's all you were doing?
R - That's all I were doing, I were bored.
So after six weeks you decided that Ilex and you had better part.
R – Yes, but I also wanted to go where I could earn a bit more money. Because with there only being me father at home wage earning and I were the first worker I wanted to go and earn a decent wage to take into the home you see?
(10 min)
Yes.
R- And me sister couldn't work because she had epileptic fits. She were always at home, she never worked didn't me sister. So you see, as I were the first worker…
Yes. Your brother was younger than you, that's it.
R- He were 18 months younger so I wanted to earn a decent wage.
So what did you turn to then?
R - I went into cotton then.
Yes. Now where did you go?
R- I went to Goodshawfold Manufacturing Company, Oak Mill, Dunnockshaw. That's just on the roadside as you come down. Well they are closed now.
Aye. That's the one, below Clowbridge yes. And when did you go to work there Jim, that’d be about what, that’d be about nineteen forty six?
R- I went there in nineteen forty five.
Aye, the end of nineteen forty five was it?
R- 1945, November.
November.
R- That November. Yes.
Yes. Now what did you go there as?
R- Just a cotton operative, doing any job they put me on, I started in the devil room, ‘in’t devil hoil’ as they called it.
That's it aye.
R- And I worked on what they call a little Austin. It's like a little breaker machine. You feed your stuff in from the bale, it chews it up and comes out at the back and then you take it off out of the bin at the back and you take it for the scutcher to run. And I did that for about oh, 12 or 14 weeks and then gradually they moved me up step by step going through the mill you see.
What did you go on to after you'd been on the devils?
R- Can breaking, that's with the doublers.
Aye, cans, yes.
R - Where your stuff comes off in coils in the can, all as I were doing was changing cans, putting empties on and the full ones on the doubler to run.
That’s it aye.
R- And that were me job, I'd to change all the cans when they got full.
Aye. So you had so many breaker cards and you were going round them…
R- Yes ... and changing them.
And changing them over.
R - A can breaker were that yes. Now then I got a little bit extra wage then see, my wage went up a few shillings then. Then they took me from there, I went up in the mill then, upstairs where the mules were, bobbin piking. After the mule spinner had done with the bobbins I fetched them back and I piked them off.
Now then, explain that to me, you piked them off.
R - Well, after the mule spinner's done with the bobbin, when they've run them off, there is a bit of cotton left on the bobbin.
Aye you mean after the weaver?
R – No, after the spinner's done with the bobbin. What I'm doing you know when 1 am spinning?
Yes.
R - After I take the empty bobbin out, you know that bobbin I’ve to put on the top?
Oh yes, bobbin, aye I'm thinking of pirns. I'm sorry, aye.
R – Yes, well the full bobbin with the roving stuck on.
With the roving on yes that's it, bobbin, I'm with you.
(350)
R- Now then, that goes back and I have a piker and I used to pike it off into a waste basket, see? Now then I did that for a few weeks and then I went from there onto bobbin carrying, that were taking the bobbins to the mule spinners, the full ones.
Aye, that's it yes.
R- I kept going up, step be step, and while I were doing that bobbin carrying I used to nip in the wheelgate and try me hand at piecing.
Taking an end up, aye ...
R - Piecing up. I were a bit fumbly at first, but I soon got into it you know and it were .. and I thought then as it were a job as I could get into quietly and I liked it. But I didn't get on spinning for two years.
Aye. Was that the usual sort of way to get to learn spinning?
R- That were the routine for everybody.
Do it yourself? Aye.
R – Yes. But you could also go there for a job and learn piecing, and they used to fetch you into the mill then, and then you'd go in the mill rooms and you go and they'd take you to the spinners and they say “Right, he wants to learn spinning, can you learn him?” He’d say “Right” and you'd have to stop in with him all the time. The spinner. But I didn't do that, I went round the mill doing odd jobs, and then I used to go in and learnt it.
Which were possibly the best way.
R - It were the best way to learnt you see
Aye, that's it.
R - And I soon got into it you see?
Oh yes. How long were you at Oak Mills Jim?
R – Twenty four years.
Twenty four years
R - Twenty four years.
Ah .. So you were at Oak Mills, that's a bit of a facer. Now then wait a minute. You've quite knocked me over there. So you went there in 1945 ...
R- Yes ... 1945.
End of 1945 and you'd be there till 1969?
(400)
R- Well actually it weren't quite twenty four years, it shut down October 1968, that's when we were made redundant. And I worked from 1945 up to 1968, October.
Right. Well we'll talk about Oak Mill then. And you were working there all those years and you were there two years did you say, before you go to do …
R- Before I got on learning to be a spinner. Well I went on actually on piecing. You'd to be a piecer first before you got a pair of mules of your own.
(15 min)
Now then, when you say you got to be a piecer, was that, did they have somebody who did nothing but piece up for them?
R- No. I were more or less the run about for them.
Aye that's it yes.
R- You see I brewed up for them and things like that. I did spin, I did piecing the same as they did and I used to change the bobbins up just the same, and doff off but I used to do all the running about for them.
That's it aye.
R - I used to do all the sweeping up and ...
Yes, you were like a mule spinner's labourer. That's it, aye.
R- I were a mule spinner’s labourer.
That’s it, aye.
R- What they call a piecer.
Yes. You don’t have those now, do you?
R - We don’t no because these mules what I’m on they are not big enough for to have a piecer on. The mules I worked on at Dunnockshaw were fourteen hundred spindles and they were a hell of a size you know.
Now what were you spinning there? Were they condenser mules?
R- Yes, condensers same as what I’m running now, same counts more or less. There were 7’s, 8’s, and 9’s. Nines were a fine count, we run a lot of nines. But it used to spin well because they used to spin the best comber you see and it were that Egyptian.
Yes, that’s it.
R- And it were damn good stuff, you know?
Good stuff, aye.
R- And theme mules were enormous, bloody marvellous! Fourteen hundred spindles is a lot of spindles you know on a mule?
Yes. That's on one side of the mule isn’t it. One frame.
R- No that's on all the lot.
On the lot, on the set of two mules, that's it?
R- Yes on the set of mules and there were three pair in that room I worked in.
Yes. How many is there on that frame that you've got up there? That mule you've got in there.
R - Nine hundred.
Nine hundred, yes, I did reckon it up as getting on for a thousand. There are nine hundred.
R- It’s about nine hundred and sommat. Four hundred and odd a side, four fifty sommat I think it is.
So it'd be half as big again as them.
R - Yes. And them at Dunnockshaw were narrow gauge spindles, a lot thinner spindles, and a lot nearer together than them I'm running. Them's broad gauge them but these were very narrow spindles, right thin uns and very close together.
Yes. So you couldn't spin as big a yarn package on them.
R - No.
What were you spinning onto then Jim, were you spinning on to the…
R- We used to spin on to what they called paste bottoms. That were before the tubes came in.
Aye. Now tell me about that first. I’ve seen paste bottoms and I know what they are but now I want you to tell me what paste bottoms were.
R- Oh, paste bottoms were actually, we used to paste the bottom of the cop when it were wound on with starch, so they starched the bottom end of the cop so as it would harden it, go stiff, so as your bottom when you took the cop off, it wouldn't pull out you see? And it used to stiffen it.
Yes. So there was nothing inside that cop.
R- It were hollow when you took it off.
It were hollow when you took it off. That's it yes.
R- And when you started to doff them off you'd to push them up with your fingers and bend the end over with your hand. Just bend the tip over so as they don't slide back down on the spindle. And you used to press up, and just knock it over like that so as they don't drop down again. And then when we used to gait up the same as I do now with our mules, with the pirns, we used to do what you call whipping them. Now then, they used to get the faller wire and whip down quick with the top faller and the bottom faller while you make the rim band and it just wound a little bit on the bottom of your cop, at the bottom. And you used to do that for two draws and then you'd starch it and it got you a proper, a good solid bottom on your cop.
(500)
Yes so you'd make two little traverses at the bottom instead of a big traverse and then you'd starch that over the top of it and this is on the spindle itself isn’t it?
R- That’s on the bare spindle.
Yea. How did you get it to trap an the spindle, Jim? You know, how was the thread trapped. Nowadays when you're doing this and you're spinning with pirns, when you pushed your presser down, that thread that's left on is actually trapped under the bottom of the pirn.
R - It's under the pirn.
It’s under the pirn and when it starts to turn it's got to start going round. Now where was it trapped on the spindle?
R - On to the bare spindle, just as it is on the bare spindle now.
So In other words, when you were finishing, before you doffed you your faller, your faller wire went down, so it took that thread right down to the bottom.
R- It took it to the bottom.
And you let a little bit run on at the bottom.
R - And it let it wind round on the bottom you see.
Aye that's it. And that was the start of your next cop in there.
R – Yes. That were your base of your next cop. And once you'd what they call whipping, you'd to do it two draws to get that bottom on. One draw of whipping wouldn't. be enough. You had to do it a second time to get it round like, what you call a double round.
Yes. That's it.
R- And then when you’d starched it, like happen half way up it’d set had your starch. But if you didn’t starch them right you started pushing ‘em up and all the bottoms would pull off. Then they were no good and you had to throw them away.
Yes, waste again.
R- To go back as waste. And then you used to get a rocket off the spinner you know. He’d punch your arse. That's what would happen.
So you’d have the paste in a little can would you?
R - It were in a little bucket.
What did you put it on with, a brush?
R- And you had a brush, it were a long one made of brass and you had a little door on the lid of the can and you just pulled the door back when you wanted to use it. And you had like these tins you fill in the farmyard with milk…
Yes, a lading tin. Yes.
R- A little ladle. You used to get your ladle and fill it all up and slur your lid, close your lid, and then just tip it half way so that your starch would run out on to your brush, and then you used to brush along the bottom of the cop while it were running. And then when you'd finished you'd starch all down your overalls.
Is that right?
R- It were splashing off, well it were splashing off the cop you see? The spindle.
Yes because they'd be moving then yes.
R – You had to starch with it moving, you couldn't starch with them stopped. Because all the cop had to be starched you see.
Yes, that's it, both sides yes.
R - And then you'd go down like that you see.
Aye, that's it aye. Well now that's fascinating that is, paste bottoms. I've seen ‘em and heard about them but I’ve never had anybody talk about how you made them.
R- I know yes.
Now then, they brought out an improvement on paste bottoms didn't they, which were paper bottoms.
R - They started on to what they call paper tube.
Yes, now, you tell me about them. We are talking now about the little half tube that went on the bottom, aren’t we, or did you go straight on to the full tube?
R – No, we went on the full, the big tube. Seven and a quarter inch long they were.
Yes. Have you ever spun on to the little tube, the little sleeve at the bottom?
R – No.
You know, about so long. [SG indicates two inches]
R- We've had little blue paper tubes, a bit bigger than that what you are saying, happen about five inches happen, but them wore seven and a quarter what we were on to, we didn't ...
Yes well all them little, all these little sleeves were, they were really thin paper and they didn't go anywhere near half way through the cop. They only went up about two inches and they must have gone down and slipped those on to the spindles first and then spun on to those and they acted instead of paste bottoms.
R- Were it not fine spinning? That what you are talking about?
Yes that was.
R- It must have been fine spinning. It weren't shoddy.
Oh no. These were 44s and 60s Egyptian, really fine stuff.
(600)
R- Yes. I thought so, we didn’t do ‘em with shoddy then.
Yes. But I know that they used to use paste bottoms, and then, as I say, with this fine spinning they went then on them paper sleeves in the bottom. And then onto the paper tubes and eventually an to Welsh hats. But anyway, you went straight on to the paper tubes.
R - We went on to paper tubes yes.
And was that better for you as a spinner?
R - Oh yes, it did away with the starching for a start. You had no starch and your overalls didn't get starched up. It were a lot cleaner aye.
Yes. Could you get as much on them as you could on to the spindle?
R- Yes, because they were only like a fine paper you see.
Yes. They were very thin weren't they?
R- And they were very thin. And for the counts as we were running, we were only running between sevens and nines. Well it weren't a right thick coarse count you see so we were all right for width on the cops you see, width didn't make much difference.
Yes. How did they grip on the spindle? Was the spindle sprung you know, did it have a spring on to grip them?
R – No, it just fit right on to the spindle tight
Just fit down onto the base.
(25 min)
R- Yes but they were a bit like, the old tubes, when you put them on, they’re all loose at the bottom, they don’t go exactly dead on at the bottom, but they are tight at the top. Up at the end of the spindle at the top, that's where they grip.
Aye, at the top.
R- You've just your half an inch grip at the top you see. And when your stuff winds on to your cop at the bottom, on to the paper tube then your weight's there, on to the bottom you see? And it's that half an inch at the top, or an inch, that's what grips your tube, you see.
Aye, that's where your grip is aye. And so you’d be spinning on paper tube there up till, well, up to when you finished.
R- Well, they did paper tubes all the time yes. And also they did them little Welsh hats we do at our place now.
Yes that’s it.
R – Them with a bit of a steel rim.
Yes, with the metal bottom that’s to clip into the shuttle. Now then, now's the time to get talking about something I’ve wanted to talk to you about for a long while. The thing that's always fascinated a lot of people about mule spinners and it fascinates me and all. It’s a fact that you used to work in bare feet didn’t you?
(650)
R - Oh yes, I worked in me bare feet all the twenty three years at Dunnockshaw.
Yes. Now did anybody else in the mill, any other process, work in their bare feet?
R- No, only the spinners.
Yes. Now why did spinners work in their bare feet?
R- Do you know, I don't know about that, 1 don't know where it originated from. All I know is when I started work, all the spinners used to work in their bare feet, and that were the common thing to do you see. And yet none of the card room, the floor ware exactly the came in the card room as it were in the mules and yet fellows always wore shoes and slippers and anything like that. But spinners always worked in their bare feet. Unless there was something wrong with their feet and they had to wear shoes.
Yes, that’s it. What did you think about working in your bare feet?
R - Oh, I think it were great.
Great?
R - Yes.
How long did it take your feet to harden up?
R - I should say about six months 'cause they were sore at first with walking about with no stockings on or anything.
What were the floor?
R - It were, eh what were it? Do you mean the name of it?
No.
R- Oh it was just a wooden floor, like shiny.
Wood, yes?
R- Like a ballroom floor, right shiny it were.
Yes aye. How did you go on for splinters.
R- We didn't get any. It were all right smooth and polished. But if you went out, if you walked outside into another room where the floor were a bit rough, where you'd shove your bobbin trucks over… then you'd get them in and you had to get them out.
So how did you go on in the wheelgate when you were doffing? You wouldn't wheel your trucks in to the wheelgate then when you wore doffing would you?
R- We had tins for doffing in not boxes like we have at our place where you’ve trucks and that. We had waste tins as well.
So you'd carry them.
R- We used to have to fill them up and carry them out.
Aye. So there was no traffic on the floor to damage them?
R- No. All as we used to do were take a pile of tins in and then your cops were, we lifted the tins and walked out with them. All as were in the wheelgate were spinners and these tins on the floor and that were it.
(700)
Yes. Did you have a tin for waste in there?
R- Yes, the tin for waste was fastened on to mule itself.
So it moved with the mule?
R- It went with the mule did us waste tins. Not like we have now with them boxes, it were fastened on to the mule underneath the spindle lid, that box lid that comes down. It were under there.
Yes. That lid that comes down for access to the spindle bands.
R- And it were about, happen one foot six, sommat like that you know and it used to be fastened on to the mule and then all as we did were just throw your waste in as it were running. There were one on one side of the mule [headstock] and one on the other and then there were two on the other side where he was.[of the wheelgate]
Would you fill those in a day?
R- No. Not the way spinning were then. It were good spinning and there weren't so many ends come down, and it used to take you a couple of days to fill that.
Did you use to pick loose ends up off the floor with your toes?
R- Oh yes, all the time, never bent down to pick any waste up. I used to like roll it up with my feet into a ball and then pick it up. You never bent down for any. I could pick cops up with me foot and pick tubes up. Yes, it sounds funny really, you know, I could do it easy enough.
How hard were your feet? When I say how hard are your feet, I mean would you have difficulty in walking home? You know, over the roads?
R - Oh yes I could walk outside on to the main road with my feet, they were that hard. And the rails, you know the rails what the mule runs out on, I could walk on them flat-footed, walk on to them without hurting me feet or anything, never felt them. Really, really hard.
And would you say it was good for your feet that?
R - Yes, I think it was. I think it were healthy.
Healthy?
R- Yes very healthy. I don't think you sweat as much you know when you were free from socks and shoes, I think it were a lot cooler.
Yes that's it. Aye they reckon dogs do a lot of sweating through their feet, yes, through the pads of their feet. Not that I’m comparing you with dogs!
R- I think that's why I sweat a lot now in me head, through me forehead you know, with having shoes on.
Aye, I do that! Perhaps that’s why I ought to be in me bare feet aye. Aye, now another thing I want to ask you about, have you ever come across spinners cancer?
(750)
R- I have heard of it. I've never actually known anybody what has it but I think it's only, I don't know whether it were going or not then. Well it probably would have been but I don't think it were talked about then. I don't think anybody knew a lot about it then.
Aye they perhaps didn't know what were causing it.
R- They knew what were the cause of it. It's a funny name they had. Is it…
Scrotal cancer isn't it? Is it? Scrotal cancer aye.
R- Is that what it was called? Aye.
What it's with, the spindle’s revolving so fast they are always throwing a little bit of oil off aren't they you know?
R - They do.
And the thing was that, I mean we've been talking about… For instance we ware talking about you not wearing underpants until you went to work. Now in the old days of course, a lot of people never did wear underpants, and they used to wear the same trousers day after day.
R - All full of oil, full of oil.
... week after week after week, full of oil. And the thing were that it used to give them cancer of the scrotum and really the cure for it was to wear underpants and change them every day or two days, so that you weren’t going round in clothes that were soaked with oil. But for years and years I don't think this was really recognised. And I was just wondering whether you'd ever come across it and whether anybody ever told you to watch out £or it.
R - No, it were never mentioned when I wore younger no.
Never mentioned? No that’s strange that you see because it was accepted as a real industrial hazard at one time by spinners.
R - But like same as you are talking about years ago when the old spinners were working. They actually did wear their overalls week after week after week, never took them home to be washed.
Yes. That’s it.
R You see and it did go on did that you see?
Aye, they were going round more or less soaked in oil.
R- Oh certainly they were.
Actually it was the oil itself, they changed the oil. A lot of oils had to be changed when they found out about that. Cutting oils as well you know, in the engineering works they had change because there were certain elements in them which were causing cancer.
R- Yes. That's right yes.
Ah well, nobody mentioned it to you anyway.
R- No.
How about accidents on the mules?
R - Oh yes we got, we got a lecture on what to do you know and what not to do when the mules are running. You know, keep away from your headstock when it's running, and don't clean it when it's running, don't have a brush or a rag and .. oh yes, we were drilled on that you know yes.
Yes, that's it. Now what were they running on at Ilex? On the engine?
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R- At Dunnockshaw.
At Dunnockshaw sorry.
R- Yes it were, oh yes, it were run on an engine.
Yes. So you had overhead shafting in.
R- From the engine house, yes.
Yes. And what were it like running on an engine? Was it any different than running the way you do here? It wouldn’t be any different to the way you run now were it?
R - Well it were, yes. They used to have a lot of trouble with the engine, it kept knocking itself off kind of thing. It used to go right slow and used to knock off. It used to go right slow, then everything’d slow down and then your mules would stop. You might be lucky if it stopped and when it stopped it was on the roller beam. If it didn't, if it were half way out, it might have been half way going back in again. And then the bloke, the engineer, the firebeater would have to run up the steps and get it going again just before it stopped, you see? And that happened like pretty frequent did that. It kept knocking itself off did the engine, it were an old engine, it had been in a long while, years and years. Yes.
Aye. Now tell me sommat, it's something I’ve never seen and I don't want to see it. I don't think I do, but I’ve heard about it. What’s a sawney.
R- Oh yes a sawney. Yes, we have them regular, sawneys.
Did you?
R- Oh yes, have you not, you haven't seen one have you not?
I haven’t seen one, no, can you tell me what it is?
R - Well, it can be caused with anything really can a sawney, It's when all your ends break down, all the lot, right from the top to the other end, they all come down. It can happen when your twist motion puts double twist in, when your twist motion's going round and it knocks your lever off, the third speed on to the loose pulley and your mule's supposed to
(35 min)
change then but it will go round again will your twist and put it in, what they call double twist. And then it goes ‘whrrrrrr’ and keeps going round, it keeps sending your spindles round and round and round and round and it won't back off. They just keep going does your spindles until you like go down and stop it smartish, pull your rod off and stop it. And then all your ends all fly back and it pulls them all from under them leather rollers. All the lot straight off there yes. It's a grand sight to see when you see them all coming off! It is but not for us it isn’t you know, It’s bad for us, but to see it, yes it's great.
That’s what I say… I don't want to see it.
R- And then if your rim band, what's driving your mule, your rim band. If that's too slack, when it backs off it bounces and it'll come off the pulley. Then all your ends go down, all the lot, no twist in at all, right soft yarn and they all go down.
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Aye.
R- But there’s lots of things can cause a sawney with your mule. Things can go wrong you know, a tooth breaks in the wheel or in your wheels things like that aye.
Yes. You surprised me there, you say you have them fairly often like.
R- Fairly often yes. Oh I know of one day when, when things are really going against you, you can have as many as oh, three, four, five in a day.
Oh God!
R - Oh yes we have had as many as three, one at back of the other, one straight after the other. Just pieced then all up, another draw, all down again. Oh yes it happens regular does them although you have never seen them when you've been in.
No.
R- But we don’t like them. I think they're terrible. Terrible things.
Anyway, well I should think not either. It's like having to take the warp out of a loom isn’t it. Terrible, aye. Where did they get the name, do you know, sawney?
R- I don't know. That were what we called it.
I don’t know where it came from. There’ll be a explanation for that somewhere Jim.
R - It'll be in a book somewhere, somebody'll have recorded it.
Aye. Yes wells that's sawneys and the cancer job and paste bottoms and bare feet. Anybody that came in and watched you spinning, I’m talking about people that had never seen spinning before - could perhaps be forgiven for thinking when they first saw it what a boring job spinning was. But what do you think about spinning?
R - Well I think it's an interesting job and I think you've got to be interested in it because all jobs are boring sometimes no matter what you're doing, it’s boring as a job. And you've really got to like the job, spinning, because you do a lot of walking about and you're doing the same thing all over again, a repetition, one after another. Still any job’s the same isn’t it, repetition, you're doing the same thing all over again. But that’s it, it does get boring and I think you've got to really like the job for to stick at it so long, so many years.
Would you say you've got to take an interest in it because ...
R- Oh yes, you certainly have, yes you've got to be interested in what you're doing.
Yes aye.
R- And you've got to be, try to put hundred per cent into it.
Yes that’s it.
R- Because if you don’t then you're going to make a mess for somebody else you know. The poor old weaver's going to get it in the neck if you don’t do your job right, you see.
Yes that’s interesting that because .. I mean that is one thing that's always struck me both in weaving sheds and in spinning .. you know, in textiles right the way through. People realise that how well they do their job influences how well and how easy it's going to be for the next person to do the job. Because as you say, if a spinner's not doing his job right or a taper or a twister or a winder or anything like that.
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R - Well it's the same in the card room. If they're making bad bobbins what they’re sending up to us then we catch it in the neck. It's going to be bad for us. Then we’ve got to sort it out then and try and make the best of what we get. But if there's any trouble comes from the weaving side, then they come up into the mule room you see because it's bad weft instead of going to the bottom where it started you see? And if they send good work up out of the card room then we get good work off them and then we could produce good work see and the weaver gets good weft.
Yes that's it.
R- But if there's any, if there's any bad weft straight to the spinners you see? So we've to make the best of a had job you see?
That’s it yes. Do you think that sometimes they perhaps ought to go to the man that’s buying the cotton?
R- Well I've I had, I argue that sometimes. When things are really getting bad, when everything's getting on top of me, spinning bad and you, we used to say “Well, whoever’s buying this bloody stuff, they want to get them out and get somebody in what knows what to buy” Because some of it, it's rubbish you know?
Aye that’s it.
R- Whether it's because it's cheap or not I don’t know. That’s not my side of it.
Aye, for the price.
R- That's not my side of it, you see it's up to them.
Yes. So you were at Oak Mill then until…
R- Nineteen sixty eight
1968, aye. So 24 years, it's like a fair do and you’d told me about that before, I'd forgotten about that, you know. Well 24 years is a long time at one place.
R - It's a long while at one place. Oh I settled there, I kind of liked it.
Yes. What were the name of the firm?
R- It were called the Goodshawfold Manufacturing Company.
That’s it aye.
R- And it were owned by a family of Howarths, well Howarth they were called, and they lived in Crawshawbooth. And there were a big family of them you know.
Did they just spin Jim? Did they do any weaving?
R - They were spinning and weaving. They wore weaving as well as spinning, weaving and winding.
Aye.
R- The weaving place was Kippax Mill, Crawshawbooth, that was out of Crawshawbooth, you go down round what they call round the bottoms, it's near Brookside.
Yes.
R - And they had a big weaving shed there. It were a big firm were Goodshawfold Manufacturing ..
Did they do any spinning for sale?
R - Oh yes, a lot of mule weft then when we were running. We used to pack up a lot, put them in boxes and send them away, send them to Rochdale and Oldham, places like that. Oh yes they did a lot of sale weft. And they did a lot of rewinding, they didn't do a lot of spinning from the mule to the weaver, it all got rewound. See because a lot of time if your stuffs not just good enough they can make it better if you rewind it.
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Yes that’s it.
R- On to a pirn for to go into the shuttle. Then they know it’s good stuff you see and won’t break.
That's it.
R - But if the stuff is not good enough, and you take it by cop to the weaver he might have a lot of break downs with it you see and that's why they rewound a lot I think. But our stuff what we're running at Spring Vale now, it's good stuff and it'll run straight through to the weaver, you see?
Yes, we used to run Spring Vale twist, we used to run it straight on to the shuttle.
R- It’s a good spin is Spring Vale, yes.
Yes. No it were good stuff, we used to put it straight on the shuttles. That eights condenser we used to get off them on the green tube. We used to put it on and run it straight through the shuttle. So they've finished there anyway at Oak Mill and you’d be out of work and looking for a job again.
R - I were made redundant yes, but I had a job to go too when I got made redundant.
Where was that?
R- I went to Waterside.
Oh aye, just at the side of Spring Vale.
R- Side of Spring Vale, yes. I just did three days there, that was shift work.
Yes. Spinning?
R - Spinning yes. And it were really rough, terrible.
In what way?
R- Ends breaking down and oh, shocking. They used to have a night shift work there, Pakistanis working nights making bobbins for the spinners and they were terrible. Keep ripping them out, a lot of ends missing on them. Oh It were horrible. So I said like that’s me finished, I’m not sticking this, so I went. And I went to Ilex and got a job at Ilex which were shift work.
Yes. Now was that still slipper making at Ilex?
R – No. It's spinning now in Ilex.
Yes. So they've gone from slippers to spinning.
R- Slippers to spinning. And I did three and a half years there at Ilex spinning.
Yes. What were it like there?
R- It were all right at first, for the first couple of years, spinning were right good and then trade went off again you know and then shift work upsets your social life.
Aye. Were you on shift work at Ilex?
R- Yes.
Which shifts were those Jim?
R - Six till two and two while ten. There were just two shifts.
That's it.
R- But same as I had worked 23 years just on days you know, at Oak Mill. Then to go an shift work and get up at five o'clock in the morning, it's a wrench you know. It upsets your routine of your meals and when I were coming home at quarter past ten at night, me wife was ready to go to bed at eleven o'clock. I didn't want to go to bed, I used to be reading while one o’clock at morning and then go to bed then probably disturb her then you see. Now when I were on earlies I were getting up at five,
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disturbing her again at five. Coming home at two o'clock I were ready for going to bed, I were tired. And at night I used to go to bed at half past nine. So it's just, it upsets things and your meal times as well.
SCG/11 July 2003
8,177 words.