THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON AUGUST 16TH 1979 AT 26 HARGREAVES DRIVE, RAWTENSTALL. THE INFORMANT IS JIM RILEY, MULE SPINNER AT SPRING VALE MILL. THE INTERVIEWER IS STANLEY GRAHAM.
[My first intention was to have Jim describe the mule spinning pictures but as I got into the interview I realised there was much to be said in skimming through the other pics as well, he has the experience to be able to add to the information we shall get from other people]
This tape is going to be a description of the mule spinning pictures in the Spinning Folio.
As we have already mentioned on these tapes Jim’s done just about every job in the spinning mill. So what we are going to do, we'll get Jim to describe the other pictures as well because I have no doubt there is a lot he can tell us that’s of interest. Now, these pictures in the folio, picture 1 is a general view of Spring Vale Mill from the hill at the side. Now one interesting thing about this mill is that in common with a lot of other mill sites in this part of Lancashire it's on the site of an old water power mill. There's a brook runs down, Swinnel Beck runs down alongside the mill and at one time, up to about 1846, it’s on
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the 1846 map, the first edition of the 6" Ordnance Survey, there was water powered fulling mill on this site and the tenting frames extended into the field towards the left-hand corner of the picture. And even to this day you can see some lines in the field which almost look like the lines of where the tenting frames were. When you think that Bronze Age Ploughing can still be distinguished after that length of time, it's quite possible that these traces in the field are the traces of the walkways and pathways up through the old tenting frames. They certainly ran there because they ware marked on the 6" map. Picture number 2 is just a view of the mill from the front. The two round windows in the bottom are the arched windows of the devil hole and above are the two warehouse floors where bales are stored. On the first floor it's also the Jumbo and blending room and to the left, the block to the left is where the mule spinning is done. And at the back there is what it used to be at one time a weaving shed I should think but which in now the card room. It certainly looks like a north light weaving shed and probably was used for weaving at one time.
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R- It was yes.
Was it Jim? It was ...
R - It used to be a weaving shed, yes.
Aye, I thought from the lay out Jim, I thought it must have been. Picture number 3 is just a nice. picture of the wall, of the nameplate which gives the date 1847. I have no reason to quarrel with that because as I say, the 1846 map does show that this mill wasn't there. So this mill was evidently built on the site of an earlier mill in 1847 and appears to have been built as a weaving shed and it's now nothing but carding, preparation and spinning. Now, the first picture we come on to then, number 4, oh well, I’ll just do a quick description of this one myself. Number four is Roy Tomlinson. I should point out, I’m sat here with Jim but I'll just describe these four pictures. That’s Roy Tomlinson sat in his office. I like that picture, it's quite a nice picture, there's Blackpool Tower on the wall, there is an aerial picture of the mill on the desk in front of him and the stained glass window at the back, L. Whitaker & Sons. Nice thing, you don’t often see them in an office now. Another thing which is of interest is that there is a Sunday Times calendar hung up. For any of you in later years who know your history right well, 1979 was the year that the Times closed down and it doesn't look
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as if it's going to open up again so that calendar in itself is a bit of history. And then we start to get into the pictures dealing with the preparation of the cotton and the spinning itself and I’m going to let Jim describe those. So I’ll pass this across to you now Jim and we start with number 5. Now then Jim, you just give your description in your own words of what these pictures are, and if I think there are any questions that can be asked I'll ask you.
R- Well photograph number 5 is the bales coming to the mill and unloading them into the bale room.
Yes. Those bales, when they come on those wagons Jim, now they can be all sorts can’t they. Some of them will be raw cotton but some of them will be waste won’t they that's already been processed.
R- Oh yes, that's right. It's not just all one sort, they'll all be marked, each bale'll be marked what they are you see.
Yes. Now am I right in thinking that Spring Vale takes in not only waste to process, but also takes in raw cotton that’s never been used before?
R- Yes I think they do take raw cotton in.
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Yes. That bale that's going up there was an exceptionally heavy bale. It's a very, very tight bale, and I'm not just sure what was in that but I know that Brian did show me some up there that had come from Russia.
R- Oh now then I don't think I ...
… and there's some in there that had come from Malaya I think there was, it surprised me the number of different places those bales had come from.
R - Oh, I didn't know they had come from Russia.
Aye. There were some up there that was Russian. Anyway, next picture, number 6.
R - There's number 6 and that's when it's coming into the room.
Yes. Now, that’s on the second floor isn’t it, where the Jumbo is to the right.
R- That's the second floor where the Jumbo is yes. That's when they bring it in before they weigh it,
Yes, they are just dropping it on the truck.
R - They just drop it on the truck and then they take it over to the weighing machine.
Aye, that's in the left hand-side of the picture here.
R - Yes that's right.
Yes. And that's Brian, what's his name? Brian …
R - Brian Finney. Yes.
Brian Finney. Yes. Now, what's the name of the lad that's got hold of the truck?
R- I don't know what he is called, he is called Jimmy but I don't know his second name, he comes from Accrington. And the other one's Roland Taylor.
Aye Jimmy. Aye the big lad, Roland, yes.
R- Well he is like the gaffer in there of everything you know. He has been here the longest as well and he knows everything there is to know about that job, you know?
Yes. And that hole in the floor to the right there, that's where the…
R- That’s where the waste goes down after it's come from the Jumbo. It runs through the Jumbo, out through the back and they shove it down that chute into the devil room.
And the devil room's underneath.
R - And the devil room's underneath.
Yes, aye. Now then, number 7.
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R- Picture number seven is where they’re weighing the bales.
Aye, Jimmy with his truck.
R- Jimmy with his truck and Brian weighing.
Yes. But that trunking over their heads, that's shifting cotton about isn't it?
R - Yes it is. I think that’s coming from the blending machine that.
That’s it, from the blenders yes And from the blenders where does it go to? Does that go to the baler?
R- It goes then into the scutching room.
Into the scutcher. Aye.
R- Yes it's going to the scutching room. Number 8 shows a photograph of the Jumbo, and the blending machines.
Yes. Now the Jumbo, the proper name for that Jim, it'll be a hard waste breaking machine isn’t it?
R - Yes.
Now what's the thing about the Jumbo? They were telling me, but that Jumbo, what's the sort of stuff that's put through that?
R- Do you know, I don’t know, I don't know anything what they put, I don't know what they do, what sort of stuff actually they do.
Aye. It's right. Brian was telling me that that's the machine they use for breaking all these cop bottoms up, and doing the hard waste.
R - Yes, it probably is.
And I know that machine’s, well you can see it from the size of the belt that drives it, it'll take some power to drive it, and it flies to bits regular.
R- Yes it does, aye. And the teeth what’s in, they're really big teeth to chew it all up you know. It needs them.
Yes. Tear it up, aye. I know that it regularly breaks wheels and pulleys and God knows what ...
R - Yes it does, yes.
... because they were putting some new teeth in it at the holidays and I said well, it’ll break some bloody wheels now it's got all its teeth in.
R- Yes that’s right. Well they have got it going again now. But it fairly makes some noise when it starts!
Aye it's a fearsome machine.
(10 min)(300)
R – Yes it is. Number 9 is the Jumbo again and the blending machines and the bale what’s been taken down and opened up ready for feeding into the Jumbo.
Yes. And those trunkings overhead are taking the dust away, aren't they?
R- Them’ll be the dust extractors what’s coming from the Jumbo.
Yes that's it. Yes, sucking the dust out.
R- Sucking the dust out, yes.
Because in the old card rooms that used to be the thing didn’t it, there used to be a lot of dust.
R- Yes well there is them in our card room now, the dust stopper and that's probably what they are there on number 7 photograph.
Aye. I'm not just sure about number 7, I know one of them is shifting the waste round isn’t he.
R- Yes, that's right.
But I'm probably thinking of what goes into that room from the devils because from the devils it goes back up into the blending room doesn't it.
R- Yes it does.
And it all falls down in a bin behind. It drops down into a bin behind and then they put it through the blenders and mix it with the other stuff.
R – Yes that’s right. And mix it with the other stuff.
Yes, then it’s baled up. And then they either put it through the scutchers or it is sold again isn’t it?
R - Yes, there is some what gets fed into the scutcher and then the other is what goes to the baling machine.
Aye.
R - And number 10 is a view of the blenders.
Yes. And that was taken during the holidays when they'd shifted… No it wasn't during the holidays, no it wasn't. What interested me there, I think I know the reason for it, but you tell me. Why do they work on so many bales at once?
R- I don't know.
Aye. Well they’re different bales aren’t they and they take a bit of each.
R - Oh yes I know what you mean, yes they open one or two bales you see?
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Yes, to mix it up. Yes.
R- Instead of feeding one bale too much, only one, they split it all up and you have a handful out of each bale, then…
That's it aye.
R- And then it’ll not be, they can spread it out you see and then it will mix in with the other.
That’s it, and it’s mixed up isn’t it.
R- And then you’ll not get too much of one going through. Yes.
Yes. Now, picture 11 will bring back happy memories for you.
R- Oh aye. The devil room, or the devil hole they called it.
Aye, devil hole.
R - Noisy place.
Now what's the proper name for the devils?
R- I have no idea, all as I know is they’re called the devils.
Aye the devils. Well, they're like breaking and opening machines aren’t they?
R- Yes, but whether there is another name for them I don't just know.
These devils there have six cylinders, were the ones that you worked on at Goodshawfold Manufacturing Company, had they six cylinders and all? Can you remember?
R- Yes they had. There were three rows and the one that I worked on, what they call a Little Austin, that had just one. It were only a small one, but the other devils what were in three rows were just similar to these.
Yes, they have one that's only got one cylinder, one down at the back and that just takes roving waste.
R - That takes the bobbin waste.
Bobbin waste, that’s it.
R- What comes from the card room.
Yes. When you were talking about bobbin piking, that’s where that waste goes?
R- That’s right yes.
Now when you were working on the Little Austin is that the sort of stuff that you were breaking?
R- Just the same. Bobbin waste plus other waste as well. But it was mainly bobbin waste.
Yes. Because it's soft waste and it doesn’t take as much breaking down does it?
R- No. But a lot of firms didn't used to put their bobbin waste through, they used to sell it. They used to bag it up and sell it.
Aye.
R - Because it weren't just quite good enough and the spinning were bad with it. They used to bag it up and sell it you see and get rid of it because they didn’t want it to go through again you see. Because that meant there was still more bad spinning you see.
Aye, because it could just keep going through over and over again.
R- They could, that’s what we said you know. It's going through again and it’ll get another packet like that you know and so they used to bale it up, or bag it up, and sell it. But if it is pretty good stuff, there is good staple in it, then they could put it through again.
Aye. And of course the thing about the devil hole, the thing that always strikes me down there… If you notice there are two fire buckets in the middle, what happens in the middle?
R- Oh yes, they have fires. Fire’s pretty frequent in the devil hole.
Just before the holidays they had all three on fire didn't they?
R – Yes. Oh, and it gets covered in smoke this room and it’s terrible Oh I've seen them pass out many a time in the devil hole at Dunnockshaw, oh yes.
Is that right?
R- Just overcome with smoke you know. Oh it’s terrible.
It was exactly the same there at Dunnockshaw was it?
R - Just the same yes.
Frequent fires.
R – Yes, just a spark and all the lot, right down, right down the row of devils. Yes it used to just travel like lightning.
It makes you wonder how they went on with the insurance company with the devils doesn’t it.
R- Oh their insurance's very high I believe for the fires.
It must be when you come to think about it mustn’t it? It must be.
R- It was, the premium was very high. But you have got to have good men to work in the devil roomy you know, what know the job, and as soon as it starts, as soon as a fire starts then you have to take quick action because you have only a split second you know, as soon as it sparks it's down. Yes, you have got to be pretty quick.
They had one the other day while I was there, I've got a picture anyway, you'll see it.
R- Yes, it’s a thankless job. I didn’t like working in the devil hole.
(15 min)
Aye, they are always covered with dust and muck, they are.
R- Yes, it's a dirty place in the devil hole, but still it has to he done. Number 12 is just the makers name of, is that the devil?
Yes, one of the devils at Spring Vale. Were they Tatham’s at Goodshawfold? Do you remember?
R- Yes.
They all seem fairly standard these machines.
R- Yes. Nearly all the cotton mills in the area had them you know?
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Aye. That Jumbo's a Tatham, it's one of Tatham’s. Aye.
R - Yes it is aye.
And of course a Jumbo is very similar to one cylinder of the devil in lots of ways.
R- Yes it is.
Only it's bigger.
R – Yes, picture 13, is that when they're putting the fire out?
That were it, aye ...
R - They put it put and it flared up again, did it?
Aye, that’s it. His mate said, what do you call him? Is it Jimmy? The fellow in the devil hole.
R- I think he is called Stanley.
Yes but the other fellow in the corner, he is in charge of the devil hole, isn’t he?
R- I don't know his name .... Oh that bloke, he is called Billy Capell
Billy Capell?
R - Billy Capell he is called Billy Capell.
Aye well, Billy, I know him, Billy says “it’s out!” and the other bloke says “No it isn’t.” Billy says “It is!” And it puffed up into his face. He says “All right, it isn’t! Put some of that bloody water on!”
R - Yes, that's Billy Capell that is.
And they had it all on fire in the trunking, but they seemed to do very well, they got it out. By God there weren't half a smell of burning cop.
R – Yes. I know, and it goes on, it comes up you know into the room and it stinks for ages.
Aye, it does smoke.
R - And sometimes, if they have a really big fire, and a lot of smoke gets in the mule room then we have to stop the mules and go outside, open all the windows, and it gets really bad sometimes. Just the odd times, if they just don’t catch it in time.
Aye. Did you have to stop before the holidays when they had all three on fire then?
R- No. Of all time I have been at Spring Vale we've only stopped once to go outside. But at.0ak Mill at Dunnockshaw it used to be a regular occurrence, stopping the mules, because we really had some big fires there.
Aye, when you come to think there is some friction in them devils isn’t there? I mean that bloody great motor's going away all the time taking 140 Amps on the ammeter. It’s a 140hp motor and all. My God it’s some power going into it.
R – Yes. Oh, some power, yes. Picture 14. You know what them are don’t you?
Aye. Those are some sieves in the corner that are picking all the dawn up that's coming through off the side ends on the condenser cards. Out of the trunking from the carding room.
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R - What they call side ends. They are what they call side ends. The side ends on the condenser cards. It’s taken down the pipe and then out through these machines.
Yes. And then of course that goes back in with the rest of the waste that’s finishing up ..
R - With the rest of the waste. Yes.
And it's all going down, it's all going into the baler, which is the next picture, number 15. And then it’s either baled to send out, or it's baled and it's used again. It’s stored and then used on the scutcher. But I didn't see any going to the scutcher that hadn't been baled. You know, they're feeding bales into the scutcher all the time.
R- Yes full bales what they open and feed in through the scutcher. Yes. These, on this here baling machine on the next photograph, these are just baled up and they are sent out, they have been sold have them. But they don't break them out again and use them, them’s sent away.
Yes, but they are breaking bales open to put on the scutcher.
R- The bales for the scutcher are bales what come in through the bale house. You see, on the wagon, and then they open them up and send them through to ...
Aye, so that stuff that they’re breaking down in the devil hole then, that’s just about all going out for re-sale?
R – That’s going out and they’re going in these, on the baling machine to be baled up you see. That’s making a good profit at our place is that baling machine ...
Aye. Opening, breaking or breaking open and then baling aye.
R - Yes. Breaking and then baling and selling them. Yes, it's making a profit on that.
Well there’s some expense on it when you come to think because by God it’s hard on the machines. It's hard on the men and hard on the insurance policy and all.
R- Yes it is aye. And they run a lot of over time on it and all doing it you know, and honestly, it's paying them.
Yes. Nice to know sommat is paying!
R- Yes well, it is paying is that. Now, number 16.
(20 min)
R- 16 is the scutcher. I don't know a right lot about these, they hadn’t this sort at Dunnockshaw, they were a different type, they were like this on photograph 17.
No well, aye the delivery end. Well I mean, all the scutcher is doing is taking the cotton in out of the bale and that cotton has already been opened up and broken hasn’t it. It’s been broken and straightened out and the scutcher is taking it, lofting it and making a nice even lap for the breaker cards.
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R - That's right.
That can go into the breaker cards. It teases it up a bit more, and blows it about. It's opening it all up and blowing the muck out of it, cleaning the muck out of it and making sure that it’s in a good condition to go into the breaker cards.
R- Yes, that’s right.
And then on 17 there’s, what’s his name? Pickles?
R- George Pickup.
George Pickup. Now he is just about to take a lap out.
R - A lap out yes.
And anybody that's looking at this, if you just notice there's some threads coming off cops on the top and they wrap round the lap. Well that keeps, they help to keep the lap separate when it’s unwinding into, when it’s being fed into the breaker cards.
R - Into the breaker card yes.
Which converts it into the sliver which goes into the cans which is what you were talking about when you were working on, when you were a can breaker yes?
R - Yes, a can breaker, yes. And that’s picture 17 where he is weighing a lap.
Aye, he is just weighing a lap. Now, all them laps there are worked out so they are the same weight when they come off, aren't they?
R- They have got to be the same weight, for the same weight to go through for spinning and what have you. Because if they aren’t, then they are going to have to alter things, they're going to have to alter the cards, and alter the mules because they vary so much in weight. So if George gets his weights wrong here on the scutcher then it’s wrong all through then. They’ll have to go back to the scutcher and get it right, the proper weights.
Another instance of how well one man does his job affecting everybody else down the line like the way it used to be.
R- Yes, if he knows his job then everybody'll get some good work from him. But if he is a bad un on that job then things can be really rough you know.
Yes, that’s it aye. And how does George rate? How does he do…
R- Oh he in a good scutcher tenter is George, he's done it at Oak Mill at Dunnockshaw has George. He worked there when I worked there did George.
Oh! Did he work, he worked at Dunnockshaw?
R - Yes he worked on running the big doubler at Dunnockshaw when I were can breaking for George.
Aye, Derby Doubler. Aye, a big un, aye.
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R- Yes. He has always worked in the card room has George, always been a doubler. You see he has got experience, you see?
Yes, there you are. And I mean, that’s the union and all, isn't it? Card Room Association. Are the grinders in the same association?
R- Yes. They are in with it yes. Picture 19…
He is just putting, he is taking one lap off and he is just putting a tube in, an aluminium tube that's going to form the core of the next lap.
R- That’s right yes.
He is just going to put it in between the rollers and of course that machine stops while he in weighing the other one off. You can see the finished laps leaned up against the wall, behind him .... Aye, and then on 20 he is just…
R- In 20 he's put it in and put the cage down.
Yes and he is just setting that machine going, just setting the lap going. And then on 21 he is just putting come fresh cops on, actually he renewed all those cops on top there so that he had plenty, he had some twist for the…
R - So that lap would have a full thread through it, you know.
Aye, a full complement of [continuous] thread aye. Because of course that helps to keep it going through in one sheet doesn't it?
R- Yes. It keeps it going through the card, stops it from breaking up and it keeps it even yes. And them cops are what comes from the mules you know? They're like reject cops you see?
Aye, are they short ones, you know?
R – Yes any rejects, normal cops what’s no good, tubes what gets broke and things like that.
Aye. And of course the thing about that is it is going through the card and is getting broken up so it’s going to be re-spun anyway.
R - It's getting broken up, yes, just the same, yes.
Aye. Recycling.
R- I was just going to say, recycling.
Aye that's it, aye. Now, there he is, he is just threading the thread through one of the holes in the guard.
R - Yes, that's right.
And then he just chucks them down into the lap and they get picked up in the lap. Picture 23, he’s got them all on there, he's got five fresh cops running there so he is going to be all right for a bit.
R- Yes he is ready for his lap. It'll run a few laps will them cops now. I don't know how long they take, you’re never there long enough. I don't know how long they take to fill a lap.
No, I didn’t take any notice.
R- They don't take a long while ... they don't take long.
It won't take long. I bet it doesn’t take more than what, five or ten minutes?
R- No, I shouldn’t think so Stanley, no.
No. Well it doesn't take all that long Jim. Aye, we are in the card room itself now aren't we?
R- That's him.
And, this fellow here is putting a lap into one of the breaker cards.
R- I know his name, he is Charlie Robinson. Now then he is one what come up from Higher Mill. They haven't been at Spring Vale so long. When they closed Higher Mill down they moved them up here.
(650)(25 min)
Aye from Helmshore aye.
R- That’s right. So he is one of them, he is a grinder is Charlie.
Aye, I have never seen them, how often do they grind?
R - They are supposed to grind every day.
I've never seen anyone grinding down here.
R - And they are supposed to grind two cards, one in the morning and one in the afternoon. And they are supposed to grind four days a week, Monday to Thursday and Friday’s the day when they do the cleaning and they look on for the card tenters while they are cleaning, you see? But they should grind four days a week.
I've never seen them grinding a card yet.
R- No well, they should do. But you see there is that many jobs they’ve to do when people's off, lap carrying, things like that, then it gets neglected does grinding you see?
Yes aye. And yet grinding's essential really for the cards isn’t it?
R - Well that’s it, it’s essential you know. If you are not getting grinding done then you are going to get a lot of shit running through and it will cause a lot of trouble. And then your cylinders are going to get blunt you see. If they are not sharpened up with the grinding you see, they are getting blunt.
Yes. As well as that, tell me if I am right, grinding levels them up as well doesn't it? It keeps them level. Aye.
R - It does. Yes it certainly does yes.
Yes. I know, I've never seen them grinding yet, because I've heard what a lousy job grinding is and all.
R- Yes it’s a very dusty job, and a lot of dust comes off, terrible.
Do they grind them in the machine or do they take the rollers out?
R- They have to take the rollers out and they have a grinding machine.
Yes, I've seen the machine aye yes.
R- At the side, for to grind each roll individually. Yes just at the side. And then they grind the big cylinder on its own there in the machine. And they put the grinding machine on the roller then they set it on and it just grinds the big cylinder. And then they have one on the front as well for this Little Doffer, what call the doffer at the front.
Aye, the doffer at the front, yes.
R- To the right yes.
And the idea of that is to get them both dead level, so that when they are working they can adjust them properly to get the best work out of the machine.
R- Yes that's right.
Because the thing with the card is you want it to be clearing the cylinder off all the time don’t you. It wants to get clear and sharp clean.
R- That’s right yes.
Yes well, he is just tearing the back end off the lap on picture 25.
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R- He’s tearing the back end of for waste yes. Ready for his new lap to be put on.
And he’s putting a fresh lap on. Now, another thing there Jim, again they feed two laps through at once don't they.
R- Yes well there’s a double lap running through isn’t there there and it meets up with your front lap.
Yes aye. But that again is another way of blending and mixing all the fibre isn't it, because you've got two going through at once.
R- Yes that’s right yes.
And another thing that a spinner once told me, not here. I've never heard it mentioned here, was that in the spinning process the direction of travel through the machine's always reversed each time. And when you think about it, it comes out of the scutcher, and the last to come out is on the outside but when it goes into the breaker is the first to come out.
R- Yes. I know what you mean, yes it is.
Now when it comes off as a sliver the last to come out is the first to go into the doubler and they say that the idea is to keep reversing the direction of the flow, because that helps it to comb and it'll straighten it out better. It helps to straighten the fibres out better if you process one way the first time and the other way the next
Time. Now, I’ve never heard anybody say that at Spring Vale but it’s one of the things that I want to get on to somebody like Roy Tomlinson about.
R- Yes, well he'll probably tell you about that, yes.
And you know, and see whether that's right. Or whether it's one of theme things, I mean there's a lot of things like that. I was told this tale about mule spinners having to pull splinters out of their feet every night and I said I can’t see that, they’d have more sense than to be running round on boards where they were going to get splinters in their feet, they are not silly, I couldn’t believe that. And I rather think that that's like one of these tackler’s tales you know, it's highly exaggerated.
R - It is aye.
Yes, and there’s …
R- Picture 26.
You can see the thread's hung down there, from where he's torn that lap off, the threads are hung down and of course he is going to put another on. I'm not just sure what he is doing there. He is doing something up on top of the next card, 1 don’t know.
R - No, I don’t know what that is.
But that picture was put in really so that you can see those threads hung down on the ground. He is certainly ready for another lap to go in there on top of that one to follow that one through because I know they keep them running through behind each other. And then here we are, picture 27 is something that you ...
R- Yes now on 27. He’s on the front with the can what’s running for the doubler.
(750)(30 min)
Yes, that's the other end of this breaker card we have just been looking at with the laps going in isn’t it, with the scutcher laps going in. And that's just combing it off, an oscillating comb at the front, taking it off that doffer cylinder and it comes off as a beautiful web, and that’s condensed it to a rope, hasn’t it. I love to see that coming off, it’s like a cobweb isn’t it?
R- Yes, nice isn't it. Yes, it’s nice is that, lovely isn’t it.
Like a cobweb going away from it.
R – Yes, it’s nice when it comes along there, And we used to have a lot, when you’re learning at first on can breaking you've to learn to get all that together for to shove it through a little hole. [If the web breaks] Now then when it breaks down, if you had a lap run out all that breaks off where it goes down into your can. Now, when you knew that comes through then you have to pull all this to the side and rub it together, spit on it and rub it together and feed it through a little round hole, you see? And it's got to be right fine twist and you have to shove it through there, and then thread
it through that little hole at the top, what goes into your can. And it were only a right little fine hole and you can see there’s like two rollers there and there's two rollers inside, which are similar to that but a bit smaller.
What do they weigh one of them cans?
R - What do they weigh? Do you know, 1 don't know.
They are not very heavy.
R- They are not no. I don’t know, this is only a small one but the others, them big ones, them’s pretty heavy is them. Them big ones want some dragging about but these are not no bad, you can carry four, two in each hand but the big ones you can only manage one and drag one behind you. But them, you can carry two at the front of you and two at the back of you.
Just put your hands in the top and grab hold of them?
R- And grab hold of them, yes.
That'll strengthen your fingers up Jim.
R- Yes. Oh you get used to them in time you know. And picture 28.
Aye, 28. Well 28 and 29 are two views of the doubler from the opposite sides, aren't they?
R- Two views of the doubler. Yes.
Now then, what is going on here Jim?
R- Well, the cans from the breakers are brought in and fed through into that, into the doubler, under through, under them rollers, and then down into the front of the doubler there for to make a lap.
(800)
Yes. Aye well I think if you turn over on to the next page, on to…
R - On to number 30.
Picture number 30, it's a view from - if I remember rightly - it's a view from the end of the doubler. That’s it, looking down the doubler.
R - That's it.
...and you can see then all going in together.
R- All being fed in and running all down yes.
And there again, when you think about it, that’s mixing all the fibres together isn’t it?
R – Yes, it certainly is.
They are all going down, and it's mixing it together. And all those slivers are going down and finishing up on the roll at the front. On the next picture, number 31, you can see the front of the machine.
R- Up there ..
And that presses that lap at the same time doesn’t it.
R- There’s two big rollers in there, well there's one big un that came down and presses that down, you see, on to your shell. Inside, there's a shell inside and there is some weight in there you see and what they weigh ...
Yes, and when it comes off there's a lass there, taking the laps, and stacking them.
R – Yes. I don't know what they weigh but they are heavy them laps. Yes, which is them at the back there.
Yes, that's it aye. There is a lot of cotton gone into them laps isn't there?
R - Yes they are very tight, very tight laps. There’s a few hours running on them when you've put them on cards. I don’t know exactly how long, but at least four hours.
Yes. Now, well I think when you get on to the next picture, that it shows the condenser cards where they’re… Ah well, that's looking down from…
R- That's looking down the alley.
That’s just looking down the alley, those are breaker cards aren't they, those are breaker laps going in.
R – That’s the breakers, that's the breaker laps yes.
Like the main reason I put that photograph in actually, was that there again, we have got the fire buckets. Because once again, fire is the big thing isn't it?
R- Yes. It's the big thing in a cotton mill yes. And them's essential, they have got to be there has them.
Yes, a finely devised… Yes.
R- And the fire inspectors come round regular and check them you know to see if they are full. Oh yes they are pretty strict on things like that.
Yes. I noticed there there's a piece of card on top of each one to stop the dawn collecting on them.
R- Stop the dawn collecting in, yes. Yes Picture 33 is the front of the cards, condenser cards.
Aye. Now those, the doffing roller on a condenser card is divided up isn’t it with strips of leather.
R- Yes strips of leather on, yes. Each one represents one end what goes on to your bobbin.
Yes that's it, of roving when it finishes up on the mule yes.
R - Of roving when it's finishing up, yes.
And how many ends is there on each bobbin Jim?
(850)(35 min)
R – There’s 30 on these.
Thirty on each bobbin?
R- And when I worked at Oak Mill at Dunnockshaw there were 36 on them bobbins, they were a little bit longer, they were 36. Which in a wide span you know when you are putting a bobbin in. But on them there is 30. On some cards you’ll get 32 ends. Now then, that's where them side ends come in. They have what they call side end pipes which is the two ends at either side what don't go into the card, it's sucked down your pipe, sucked away to your side end pipes what they call the side end machine.
Aye, sucked away.
Yes because when you think about it those at each side won't be as even as those in the middle will they.
R- No, it's just sucked away and took down.
It’s sucked away and taken back into those little machines which are sieving it out.
R- That's right, although the cylinder there has 32 leathers on…
Yes there's 32.
R- You are not actually getting 32 ends on your bobbin, you are only getting 30.
No you are getting 30, that’s it yes.
R- But these all have 30 on.
Yes, that's it, aye. And that at the front of the card, there's those two big flat belts which are oscillating all the time aren't they. They are flattening, they're rolling and rubbing it ... yes.
R- They’re rubbing it together you see. That is pressure on your stuff coming through and they can alter that. They can take the belts down and rub it a lot harder and make your bobbin a lot heavier which is not good enough for spinning. It’s no good, you don’t want a hard bobbin what's rubbed because your ends’ll, you have already to put twist in the roving and when you get it in the mules, when they're potting twist in it's too hard, they fly back. So that's why we like a soft bobbin so they slacken these leathers out you see and have them rubbing just nice and soft.
Yes I've noticed that they are very soft. I mean, like that picture I have of you, which is a picture that's got to go in there. At dinner time when you are having a nap, having a sleep in the wheel gate and you are using one as a pillow, they make a nice, soft pillow, don't they?
R - Yes, they are soft, they are. Yes, well all the other spinners what I used to talk to, you know they used to say “Never have a hard bobbin, never have a hard bobbin they are no good, they are too hard. When you get twist in them they just fly back.” And that's why when bobbins come through we only need to just get hold of one, just feel
at it “Oh, that’s too hard.” So we have to tell the overlooker then, will you a look through your cards, there's some hard bobbins coming down. Well, he'll just walk
(900)
along and just touch them and then he knows which they are. But sometimes it might mark the flanges, does the card tenter on the front. She’ll put the number of the card on the flange of the bobbin. If you get a heavy one and it’s happen say number 6. When it comes through to me and I'll put a number 6 in and it starts flying back I'll go and tell them that number 6 just want to take a bit of rub off. What they call a bit of ruby you see?
Aye. And all those cards are numbered of course.
R - And each card's numbered individually, yes.
When you come to think, us talking like this about these pictures, I'm glad we decided to do all these pictures because you know far more than you think you know. It’s the amount of skill. It's a thing that strikes me over and over again with the textile industry and I know it’s the same in every other industry. People get the idea that the textile industry is a bit of a rough and ready operation. They are all a bit thick that work in it you know. I mean they have got to be thick to work in the mill. You know that mentality. But you know when you think about it, there's some skill, there's some skill and experience has got to go in to, well just for ....
R - There's a lot of years of learning for to be a good card tenter or a good spinner. Whatever you are doing in the mill, it takes years and years to be a good un. And like anybody can't walk in and just start doing the job because they'd be lost. They think they can do it when they look at it. They think oh that's easy and it certainly isn't.
Who pikes beams off? Because I noticed when they're coming back on the…
R - These bobbins you mean?
Bobbins rather.
R - The card tenter, they pike them.
Aye, they pike them off do they? Aye.
R - But years ago they used to have bobbin pikers to do the job.
Yes that's it.
R- Which were young lads.
Yes, you can see coming down on the conveyer there.
R- On the bobbin rack yes. They call it a bobbin rack.
Bobbin rack aye. On the bobbin rack, there you are. They are coming back down with the odd ends left on.
R- Yes, well the card tenter takes them off and pikes them.
Yes Tell me something Jim, while we are on about that - and I know there’s going to be a good answer for it. Why don't you spin all of the thread that’s on a bobbin?
R - Run it right off? Well for a simple reason. Sometimes when a card tenter changes the full bobbin up and they put their empty one in, well for instance, they might have had a bad bobbin what wants to come out where they get stuff in the dividers [spoiling the bobbin] and it comes through and it breaks some of the ends down. So they take the bobbin out they put their empty one in and feed all their ends in. Then they might be readying that bobbin what's been taken out, what's a bad one now, and they might get some ends what are run in, it catches your loose ends when you are readying and it goes round and that’s the simple reason why you can’t run it off. There’s odd ones you can do and a good card tenter will take the bobbin out and break their ends off and feed them in even and it’ll be straight. They take the bobbin off and walk away. Now that’s very rare is that.
So you can't rely on it.
R- You can't rely on it, no. And I’ll tell you another reason why you can't run them off. Some card tenters, if their bobbin comes back and they want to put it in and they haven’t another one available they won't pike it. They’ll take the full bobbin out, and shove the bobbin in what has already got stuff on it. Well if it comes to us and we are running then down, if that ran right out, and all those ends'll come down they'll all be missing. See, they haven't piked it off to the bare wood or whatever it’s made of you see.
But how do you know when to change your bobbin over, is it just by experience? By looking at it?
R - It's by experience, with looking at it, you can tell with looking at a bobbin when it’s going to run out.
I know a taper, I know we are dealing with different things, but back beams on a tape, you'll see the taper just go to them and he'll just knock them with his knuckle and he'll know how much there is on. Have I seen you do something like that with a bobbin?
R- Yes, I do that, I walk along and I go ... like that, and I can tell you just how much will be on that bobbin. And I can walk away for about five minutes and I know when I turn round it'll be ready for coming out.
Yes. I thought I’d seen you do that.
R - And that's the same as you said, that's my experience.
Yes, I’ve seen you do that. And I have seen the same, I know they are a lot harder are back beams with the twist on, but I've seen the taper do the same thing. They've just gone to them, just walked up and just tapping them with their knuckles.
R- Or I’ll walk past and I just tap, I just touch it and I'll know how much there is on that bobbin roughly, you know, a rough guess.
Yes. Because obviously if you let it run right off you are making a lot of work for yourself.
R - Well it's all extra work, you have to piece all them ends up again you see?
Yes, and if it’s gone off right perhaps have to thread them through the roller and all and piece your ends as well.
R- That's right, yes. It’s all experience, that's what it all boils down to.
Aye. Well, I tell you what, before we go on to picture number 34 I’ll stop this tape and go on to a fresh tape.
SCG/14 July 2003
8,445 words.