THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON AUGUST 16TH 1979 AT 26 HARGREAVES DRIVE, RAWTENSTALL. THE INFORMANT IS JIM RILEY, MULE SPINNER AT SPRING VALE MILL. THE INTERVIEWER IS STANLEY GRAHAM.
We are going straight on now with the description of the pictures in the Spinning Folio, starting with picture number 34, Now then, 34 Jim.
R- Well them are condenser laps.
Aye, and those are the laps going in.
R- What's come from the doubler, what's going in to make them bobbins.
Yes and it's good to see, just by looking at those, that they are a lot tighter and tidier and heavier than scutcher laps.
R - Yes they're, they are a good firm lap are them.
And how long do you say a couple of them laps'll last on there?
R - They, these types they are on, they’ll do about four hours, five hours. Yes, they run a long while do them.
Aye, aye. And one thing I noticed in the card room, and I know probably that somebody that worked in a card room in the old days would say that the floor were mucky but they always keep it tidy don't they, they keep it fairly tidy.
R – Yes, it’s a pretty fair, tidy card room is this. I have been in a few card rooms, and they have been really dirty; but this card room, it's pretty fair you know?
Tell me again, what might seems a silly question. What are the advantages of keeping a card room clean and tidy?
(50)
R - The advantages?
I mean, why in it better? Why is it better to have a card room clean than to have one mucky and with dawn all over the place?
R - Well it's better for you, for working in the conditions. There is such a lot of dust about you know and it’s better for yourself for to keep sweeping it up. I know some card tenters don't bother about cleaning them up, you know, they just do it once a day. But it's probably a lot healthier if you tidy up you know.
I've seen them, I've seen card tenters go down there and, especially that fellow that you were saying came down from Higher Mill, Charlie Robinson. He is for ever going on and just wiping the dawn off.
R – Yes well he’s a good card tenter. You’ll see them do that regular, wipe all the dawn off the cards while they are running, a good card tenter, one what's been brought up properly, Yes.
Aye, brought up the old fashioned way.
R - The old fashioned way. Doing the proper things what should be done, like sweeping under your cards and what have you where all the dawn settles. They don’t bother today don't some of them, only do it once a day some of them. The old card tenters, they used to do it twice a day about 11 o’clock at the morning then again about half past two, going up to three in the afternoon because there’s such a lot of dawn comes off, drops off your cylinders you know and then it…
(100)
Then of course, apart from anything else it's such a hell of a fire risk isn’t it.
R - Well, yes that’s another thing, yes.
Finely divided cotton like that, it's very nearly explosive isn’t it.
R – Yes and it’s very dry.
Yes. I know in the weaving shed it were the same. I'll tell you what I’ve heard the tacklers saying in the weaving shed; in the days when there used to be gas lighting, when they went in to light the gas jets at night, many a time they used to get a flare on the beams from it and it just used to run like a flickering blue light. It just used to go the length of the shed along the beams. All the dawn that had settled that day just caught fire but with it being clean there were very little there so it just burnt up and went out. But it just flashed on like that. It’s like dust, I’ll tell you another place that's the same, proven mills and flour mills. Flour in the air is explosive, it can actually explode and I have no doubt that cotton's the same.
R- Just the same, yes.
It'll burn that quick, it's such a fast fire that it's an explosion. It’ll blow the windows out. Aye.
R- Yes it does.
Anyway, 35. Now then.
R – Ah, that’s the front view of your bobbin what's being made.
Yes. Now, I tell you what we can see on there Jim now I come to look, you can see how at each side, the outside side end looks bit whiter on the doffing cylinder because there in no comb working on it, it’s only sucking.
(5 min)
R – That’s where it is yes.
Yes. So there's no comb working on that, you can see where the comb ends there anyway can’t you? And then you can see the little jets.
R - Now there is a little pipe there what goes down to the floor and then it's sucked out.
Yes. It’s sucking now, it is sucking that off at the inside.
R - Sucking that off, yes.
And it comes, the ends come down between those two big flat bands.
(150)
R - There?
Yes, the condenser, what do you call that, what’s the right name.
R- Well, they are called rubbers.
Rubbers? That’s it yes. What are they made of? Are they rubber?
R- No, it’s leather.
Leather? Ah, it's leather.
R- Some of them what they make to day are like plastic you know? But, you don’t grease them, being plastic ones. But them are proper leather, and them has to be greased has them.
When you say greased, what do you mean greased? Well obviously you grease them, but what with?
R – With oil.
Neatsfoot oil, is it?
R- I’ve forgot what it's called now. No, not Neatsfoot
Whale oil?
R – No.
Sperm oil?
R – No. I forget what it's called now, it’s just ordinary grease you know. It’s thick stuff, and they feed it on, put it on to the rubber when it's running, and it works its way around both of the rubbers.
It's something like dubbing isn’t it?
R – Yes, it keeps it right soft you see. And then they leave it overnight then to dry out.
Now there again, that bobbin's getting pressed isn’t it, by that roller at the front.
R – Yes but there is two rollers isn't there? One at the back of the bobbin and one at the front which is going against, they're running alternative aren't they?
Yes.
R - You see? It’s rubbing it together on to the bobbin. But the same as I've said before the hardness of your bobbin is not with them rollers at the front, it’s done by the leathers there.
(200)
Aye, that's it yes.
R- It’s your leathers what control you.
What pressure your rubbing leathers are putting on it, yes.
R - And you can alter them also with these little screws there on the side.
Aye, at each side of the rubbing leathers.
R - That lifts this top leather up you see, the farther down you take it the more rub you're putting on, and the farther up you bring it you’re taking it off.
Aye, it takes it off.
R - And you've to take each turn, each screw off equal.
Aye, the same each side.
Because if you don’t then you are going to have your bobbin sloping.
You are going to have it hard at one end and soft at the other. Yea# aye# that's it *...
R- Yes, and soft at the others.
R- And when you’re putting it on the mules your soft at one end is going to climb, your ends climb your other that's come through straight and hard. Your top where it's slackened too much, then it's too soft and it climbs. And if you look at a bobbin you can see and it slopes like a hill.
Yes. It's one of the things I keep on about, there’s so much to it.
R- Yes, there's a lot of little things you know. You know, they're part and parcel of the job, and they’ve got to be put right you see?
They make the difference between good spinning and bad spinning don't they?
R- That’s it, yes certainly. Picture 36. That’s another one.
Aye. Now 36, that's another view of the same machine from the front.
R - That's the empty bobbin at the top waiting for the bottom one to be filled up.
Yes. That one's been piked anyway.
R – Yes. These are aluminium shells on these bobbins, aren’t they? I think them are aluminium, there is some wooden ones, but I think they did away with a lot of wooden ones and they've got all aluminium because the pikers, well the condensers were getting spells in their fingers and so they got rid of them you know.
That’s it, aye.
(250)(10 min)
R- And then also there were lumps of wood used to come off, and go into the stuff and then it used to come into the bobbin, and then up into the mules and break their ends down. So they did away with all the wooden ones and got aluminium ones.
37 shows Glenys….
R- Glenys readying her bobbin up.
Aye. Now if that were a taper doing that with beam we’d say he was balling it off.
R- Yes. I've heard you say about balling it off.
Yes, balling it off you know, and the taper would be making a ball in their hands.
R- We just say they're readying the bobbin. Readying it up.
Aye, readying it. Now, what exactly is she doing there? You tell me what she is doing there Jim.
R- Well she's probably taken the bobbin out where it broke down, probably her end's broke down in this divider what divides your ends.
Ah, in front of the doffer cylinder.
R - In front of the doffer. So she has took her bobbin out and she’s readying this down. Now then, that bobbin, that end might have ran down for a bit so as all her bobbin's level till she gets level with that where the hole's been.
Yes, that’s it.
R- And then when she gets it level, then she'll find that one end what's broke down and then spread them all out evenly.
She did Jim, she did, because I watched her doing that. She kept, as I call it, balling it off, she kept balling it off until she got to where there was an end down, she only had 29 ends in her hand there.
R - That's right, yes.
And that was the reason why she had taken it off there. In fact she gave over doing that to see to the bobbin that was in the machine because it wasn’t just running right but she got it running to her satisfaction and then she balled a hell of a lot off that to get the end. She got to it once, but she evidently wasn't satisfied with it, and went on a bit further until she'd got it.
R- Until she got it all level and then found her end.
That's it, then she just got them, bunched them all together, broke them off, …
R – Broke them off and then put them into the bobbin rack.
Just tucked them into the bobbin and up on to the conveyer with it, aye. Up on to the bobbin rack with it.
R - Bobbin rack yes.
Aye. In fact I think that if you turn over, on the next page it shows her trotting off with a bobbin, it wasn't that one. Ah, she is passing up here with the bobbin.
R- That’s it on, over her shoulder, yes. And them were the bobbins these were the trucks used for piking her bobbins off.
(300)
Aye, that’s it aye.
R- She puts her bobbins on there and pikes them off into this truck.
R - And then there are the grinders, they are coming and emptying them for her.
Aye. Yes well, she's come down with it, and on 39 she has lifted the empty bobbin down off the rack.
R - Off the rack to put a full one on.
... and she is just popping the full one on, and it’s just a fair reach for a lass up on to that isn't it?
R- It is, it is a fair reach, isn't it?
Aye, I know she has got her eyes shut while she is doing it, I don't know why.
R- Yes perhaps frightened it'll hit her on the head because they do fall down sometimes. Yes, because them little recesses here what your bobbin goes in, over the years they come loose you see, and they turn ..
That's it, aye.
R- You see? And if you haven’t put your bobbin in right it'll just fall out, drop on you. Yes.
And even though they don't weigh so much you don't want one of them dropping on you.
R- Well, if you get them flanges at your end…
Aye the flanges, they’re sharp.
R- If one of them hits you on top of your head, then it can cut you up, cut your head up.
Aye. And number 40 is a picture of a fellow that we seem to know quite well. The one and only ...
R - Yes. His face is familiar.
Yes. Right, come on, picture 40, who is he?
R – It’s Mr Riley.
Mr Riley. Oh bloody hell!
R – Esquire.
Ah, we are getting the Sunday hat on. Now then, you were stood there in, now you tell me where you were stood.
R - Well I’m stood against the headstock, I'm just watching my mules run, waiting for ends coming down, either on the mule or in the bobbins.
Yes. Now what do you call the area in the middle there? Up the middle there?
R - Well, it's just, it's just the mule room.
Yes but it’s wheelgate
R- It's the wheelgate that's right.
The wheelgate. Aye, that’s it. Christ almighty Jim, I’m going to have to start teaching you about mules I can see that.
R – Yes, it is a wheelgate.
That’s it. And over your head?
R - Over my head is the bobbin rack what's coming out of the card room continually going round with the bobbins on.
Yes. So that when you want a bobbin, instead of having to walk half a mile you just...
R- I just reach up and take one down, And this here empty one, and I am waiting for a space for to put it on. Which I can soon do if I just take one off, a full one, and put the empty one on.
Yes. Now what have you got on your feet Jim?
R- Just a pair of sandals, open toed sandals, for comfort.
Aye. Now, that floor, even now, that floor's highly polished isn’t it, a good floor.
R- It’s a good floor is that, you can work in your bare feet on that one, it’s a very good floor. Yes. No spells anywhere in that.
No, I was just wondering what sort of wood it was that’s all.
R - I thought about it, it's maple.
Do you know I think it is. I think you're right.
R- When you'd asked me the other night, I started thinking about it again.
Aye. I think it is maple.
R - And I looked at the floor and I thought I'm pretty sure it is maple. Very hard wearing stuff.
Aye. And that’s what they used to make ballroom floors out of.
R- That’s the sort of wood and them in schools.
Yes. Them block, them parquet floors, that’s maple.
R- There, that there is maple.
Aye. It’s very dense grained and it doesn’t go into spells does it?
R- No. It just breaks off and…
When you come to think, it’d cost sommat to put one of them floors down now. It makes you wonder how much them floor’s would cost nowadays.
R- Yes, God yes.
And, another thing about it, those floors wouldn't have lasted as long as they have if people had been going round on them with nailed boots and God knows what.
R - Oh no.
I mean, with bare feet say and them floors would just about last for ever wouldn’t they?
R- Well, I think that's mainly why they've put them sort of floors in, for people to walk about in their bare feet. 'Cause I don't think they'd have used expensive wood like that if they were going to be up and down them with the old nail boots and clogs and what have you.
No. They wouldn’t would they.
R - And to me I think that's the reason why they put that sort of floor in there.
And another thing about it when you think, it’s easy to keep clean.
R- For to keep clean and hard wearing. I mean they weren’t daft in them days you know?
Anything but! I notice on that picture there, and it varies, now you have got full bobbins on top of the mule ready for use, almost every one. Now sometimes I have come and taken pictures of you and there's been very few full bobbins there in that creel because perhaps the card room wasn't just working flat out, and there was a shortage of bobbins, or…
(400)
R- There’s a lot of reasons and there's also a lot of reason for what we call bits, half bobbins and little bits of bobbins what's only just a bit run on to them. Most of the time this rack is full of them. Now this pair is the last pair at the end of this bobbin rack. It starts first at the bottom, it comes right up into the top room and the three top pairs get all the best bobbins.
Aye.
R- They don't take any bits off, and it comes down the wall into our room. And it comes to the other pair over the other side and we are the last. And after it's left us it goes back down into the card room. So we get all what they call the shit.
Yes, I know shit, I know that word.
R- But, once of a day up to just, I should say, I think about three or four years ago they could turn that round.
Reverse it?
R - Reverse it. So as when it came out of the card room this pair got all the first bobbins. And go right through upstairs, back and down to the card room. But it's something about the bearings, sommat wrong with the bearings and it will only run one way. That’s what I've been told, 1 don’t know whether it's true or not, but they said they can’t reverse it and some say they can. Now they used to reverse it and they used to reverse it every three months, you see. So as that pair what I am on now had a pick of the best bobbins just for them three months and then they turned it round which it's going this way now you see? And that's the reason I don’t get a lot of bobbins on, I will fill my creel up if there’s some big bobbins come through, I fill them up.
That’s it, if there's good bobbins coming through you'll take them up.
R- If there's good bobbins I'll take them up but I’m certainly not taking all the bits off and running them all.
Now, what happens if, what happens to them bits there, I mean do they keep going round and round and round?
R- Well, they keep going round and round, until eventually Arnold, the overlooker will come, and he’ll look at them bits and say “Lot of bits on there” I’ll say “Yes, but I’m not running any more. I’ve run me share.” So he'll take all the bits off what comes round and he’ll stand them all at the back of my mule and then he’ll share them all out. He'll get a truck, and he'll give everybody four a piece, every mule and he'll get rid of them. All the rack's empty then apart from the bobbins what want piking off. But you can guarantee the day after the bloody bits will be back again. Now then that is bad card tenting out of the card room and not looking after the work right you see. And they’re just readying the bobbins up and sending bits up and that's how they keep coming round and round, there's just a lot of bad work in the card roomy plus all the other spinners'll not take any off, they won't run them you see because it means a lot of creeling, because they don’t last so long do them little bobbins, they’ll only run about an hour and then you are changing what can. But normally a big bobbin what you put in will run four five hours you see. You are doing double work.
Will it last so long a full bobbin?
R- They run about five hours will a big bobbin, out of the card room.
That’s a big difference, a lot of difference isn’t it.
R- Certainly, if you were taking all then bits off, and they were only running an hour you’re doing three times the work.
(20 min)
Aye. And I must put something in here in your defence. I mean, for people who are listening to this in years to come, there will be people who will listen to you saying that and they’ll think well, he is being a bit fiddly. It doesn’t make that much difference, ‘cause it doesn’t take long to creel a bobbin up but I know what you mean. There's two things about it, you tell me whether I am right or whether I am wrong here. The first thing is that these things do make a difference, and if you are trying to do a good job you like to think that other people are trying as well, and that you are getting a fair crack of the whip. And really that is the second reason, 1 know as well as you do, and I want you to give me your opinion on this, there is nothing worse than thinking that you are being made a bloody mug of. It used to upset me, things like that. It's all right, you could be a good man for the gaffers and everybody else, and you could take them bobbins just as they come, and finish up taking odd bits and working half as hard again as any other mule spinner in the place. But the thing is that nobody'd think any better of you. In fact they'd say “Bloody hell, look, Jim’s arseholing again.” You know, they start, that’s how it works isn't it?
R- It certainly is.
And they’d be right and all. I mean, why should one person have all the muck and the dirty end of the stick all the time.
R- All the muck yes. Well that pair does get all the dirt and all the muck. All the bloody leavings, all the lot that nobody will do and nobody wants, this pair has to have it. And you see, the trouble is when we get down with the bobbins, when they get short of bobbins in the card room and there is none coming through only bits, then we have to run them for to keep our mules going, otherwise we’ll stop. Well, we go for the overlooker and we say “Arnold, we are stopped for bobbins.” “Plenty of bobbins on the rack!” “yes, but they are all bits.” “Well, you'll have to run them off!” I say “Well we have been running bloody bits all week!” And things like that you know? Well, you’ll have them to run, you can’t stop and things like that. So it annoys me like and I start falling out with him you know and that's when he comes along then and takes them all off and spreads them all out, gives them to everybody. . But I've seen, well I’ve heard, people in that mill has told me that when he has taken them bits off them bobbin racks and taken them upstairs, they've put them on the rack again after he has walked out of the room. It's been done has that. So I don’t know whether that's true or not, but that's what I've been told.
Well, it's one way of, like, keeping the lads quiet isn’t it.
R – Yes certainly. But apart from that, another reason why I don't like all these bits going in and all is every time you put a bobbin in, you piece a bobbin up and when you piece it up you’re getting a double end, you see? If you put a bit in you piece it up, you get a double end in and it goes into your cop and it goes to the weavers. Now it might show up in the cloth, it might do, it might not, but if you run that bit off you might put another bit in before you've run a full set, then you've two joints.
Yes in one cop.
R- In one cop you’ll have two joints.
Yes, in every one.
R- From two bobbins, off two bits. Whereas if you put a full bobbin in then you get them even all the way through on that set of cops and another set after that and another after that. But if you are putting bits in all the time you’re going to get double ends coming through happen twice in one set of cops.
(550)
Yes. Which means that in effect no matter how well you are working you are actually turning out bad weft.
R- I'm turning bad weft out through them bits. Which it's unavoidable, you can’t get away from it.
Yes that's it, aye.
R- You are just piecing up you see and putting two bits in. But whether they've thought about that I don’t know but to me that’s what I'll think about, it’s there you know.
Right, anyway, bib and brace overalls, you have got them on I see.
R – Yes.
Yes I like bib and brace.
R- Yes I've never had boiler suits because you’re too warm in boiler suits. Up to the neck I don’t like them.
Yes. I can't imagine a mule spinner being able to wear a boiler suit anyway.
R- No, I've never seen a spinner have a boiler suit. No, he’d be too warm.
No. Another thing about bib and braces, they're tidy, there’s no loose ends flapping about. Now then, tell me the advantage of that. And another thing there, you've got your sleeves rolled well up.
R - Oh yes, that’s for safety’s sake isn’t it?
Tell me about it Jim.
(25 min)
R- For when you are reaching over into the mules when everything’s running, and two bands are running and you don’t want any loose bits on your shirt or pockets or anything like that. You haven't to have anything loose because it'll catch and you could get hurt. That’s the main reason for the bib and brace.
Have you ever seen anybody get caught up?
R- I’ve seen one lad get caught at the wheel end with the sleeve. Just caught in the wheel end, I can't show it on here, there isn’t a picture of it. But it's the wheels at the wheel ends and they are running together in the teeth.
On the end of the mule?
R - On the end of the mule that drives your rollers round. Your steel rollers. And I’ve seen a lad get his sleeve catched in there, and it just ripped his sleeve right off, ripped it you know? And that’s why when we were learning spinning we always got told to roll your sleeves up and roll them up tidy and straight. But you get learned that when you go in the army that.
Yes you do.
R- For to roll your sleeves up, and tidy. But the old spinners used to tell us that, always roll them up straight. And I know some lads, and you wouldn’t believe it but it’s true, they didn’t know how to roll the sleeves up. But the old spinners used to show them and they used to roll them up right straight. Get it started straight, and roll them like that, and carry on right round.
Yes, get them square.
(600)
R- Get them square. And once you have rolled them up then you are right for the day, they’ll not come down and they’ll not get fast.
No. Yes, that’s it aye.
R - Bits of things like that, it’s for safety.
Yes. Another thing. And another thing I don't know whether it's anything to do with the job or not, but there is nowt like asking. You wear your hair short and all which in uncommon nowadays.
R - Yes well, that’s for comfort as well, for sweating you know. You get them, you get people with long hair and you are inside the mill and it's dusty and you start sweating, and their hair smells and you get all little rolls of, ball’s of cotton, sticks up in their hair and things like that. You don’t see a lot of spinners with right long hair, they always have it cut short.
No. And if your hair is short it’s quick to wash isn’t it. You can just stick your head under the tap and have a bloody good wash when you come home.
R- That's right because your hair gets right dirty, it's very dusty with cotton. You'd be surprised how much muck comes out when you wash, yes.
Now, tell me sommat, are you ever affected by the oil. We were talking about spinner's cancer and what not before. Now obviously you are changing your overalls and your underpants and you are not going to get cancer, and anyway they have changed the oil. But do you notice the oil flying off the spindles?
R- Oh yes, you can see it. You can, when you go in in the morning and you start oiling up you oil your spindles up, you put your oil tin down and you set on. That turns your spindles then it flies does your oil. Now then, they tell you, some of the old spinners used to say when you set your mules on, walk into the middle you see? Don't follow your mule out because when it's turning it's splashing. It’s only that first draw. Never walk with your mule out when you set it on, walk back to your headstock. And let your mule come out so as it spits all that oil down on to the floor. Because if you walk out with your mule you can guarantee it'll all get on your overalls which it will because you are out against your cops, your spindles which is spitting oil. But I'm not bothered with the oil a right lot. I do get some spots on, near my knees you know with bending down, my knees touch the boards, the spindle boards, which is full of oil. But it's only a bit, it's not much and when I have a bath it, it all comes out you know.
Yes that’s it.
R- But normally my overalls are pretty clean you know, it's only, they’re just a bit dusty like you know?
(650)
Very good. Right.
R - We've said a lot on that picture haven't we?
Oh it’s amazing how much you can say about one picture, you’d be amazed Jim. Picture 41.
R – 41. This is where we’re getting set up for a doff aren’t we.
Now then, that’s it, you’ve hit it straight away. This is the beginning of a series of pictures, which as I said to you when we first laid these pictures out, I wasn’t quite sure where to start, because it's a continuous process. But you're just getting ready to doff.
R - What we call setting a mule up for doffing.
Yes. Now then, let’s start from the beginning now. We keep talking about doffing, now you tell me exactly what doffing is for a start off.
R – Well, doffing is taking your full pirns, your full cops off your mule, taking your full cops off your mules, and replacing them with empties.
(30 min)(700)
Yes that's it.
R- That’s what spinning is. It's just filling pirns up for the weavers and you are taking them off and putting empty ones on.
Yes. Now then, if you were to just, if that mule were just running normally and you were to just stop it, you couldn't take those pirns off as they are because the thread is going on to the cop.
R- It’s going on to the top.
It’s going on to the top of the cop where it's been winding on hasn’t it. So now, you've got to set that mule up for doffing. Now you tell me about that Jim.
R- Well, you stop your mule on your back, on the back, let it back off and go in about a quarter. But first of all, before you do that, you wind what you call a builder, you wind that back which in effect takes your end down to the bottom of your spindle. When your cop’s full your end is at the top of the spindle and you’ve to get that to the bottom of your cop. So, the only way you are going to get it there is by winding that little builder back, which is underneath where Tommy's stood there now. You wind it back, then when you run your mule in and stop it he hooks these fallers down and then it, which it does when you wind that builder back, it takes your counterfaller down. Now in effect it’s your counterfaller that controls where the end is running on to your cop, that's what builds your cop up is your counterfaller. This other faller here is the winding faller. It's a big faller what comes up. But the other faller there, your counterfaller, that’s what shapes your cop, that what makes it, that's where your end runs. Now when you wind that builder back you take that end down to the bottom of your spindle so as when we run that mule in we’ll run a bit on to the bottom of the spindle, then when you take that cop off, it breaks your end [but leaves it trapped on the bottom of the spindle.]
Yes. Now when you start to run it back in it starts trying to wind up, the spindle turns to wind up what would be the slack on the yarn. Normally, it's been spun as it comes out and then as it goes back in again it’s winding it up in place on the pirn.
R - On the empty pirns
On the empty pirn, on the top of the package isn’t it. But with you having held that counterfaller down, what it's doing, it’s winding that end on to the bottom of the spindle underneath the pirn isn’t it?
R - It winds it on the spindle underneath the pirn.
Yes so you are getting a build up there. One thing that I just wanted to ask you about that while we are talking about it, I think that it’s clear up to now. But, do you ever have to clear the bottoms of your spindles off because it’s building up?
R – It’s what we call taking your bits off because they build up over a week.
That’s it. Now…
R- So we're winding a little bit on the bottom every time we doff.
Each time, yes.
R - Then it builds up and builds up. Really, we should take them off once a week, but we don't do, we make them last a week and two days. But when you are on a thicker count, same as that next pair, they are on fours, then you have to take them off twice a week because it's such a thick yarn. Now then, when you have to take them pirns, them cops off, then you run it in and you shove all your bits up and you do the same process as what you do when you're doffing, then you run a bit more on the bottom of your spindle and take them lumps off. And then you have a clean start.
That's it aye. Now, well, thanks very much for telling me that. Now then, so what's actually going on in that picture, what are you doing.
R- Well what we are doing here is all the mule's come out and the builder's already been wound back for to get that the yarn under the spindles so I’ll run it in there. Now then, Tommy'll come along here and hook these fallers down, he'll hook it down you see, then we'll go through the process of winding stuff on the bottom of the spindle.
Yes, well 1 think if we turn over to the next picture, I think we'll come on to that. I think we'll find that you are doing that there on picture 42.
R- That's it, now that's where Tommy is hooking his fallers down.
Tommy's reaching over and hooking the fallers down.
R- He is reaching over and he hooks the faller down. Well I help, I push down with him, because there’s a lot of weight on them, a lot of weight what's on.
Yes, that's it.
R - So I pushes down and he puts a hook on you see. And then he pulls what you call a boot leg out. This is what runs on a rail, it's only for weighting this and I’ll explain this later on in another picture. But this is where we are setting the mule up for doffing. So he hooks them down, and then he pulls the boot leg out and then I'll run the mule in, ends slack, which is on another picture.
Yes. Now on picture 43 you were winding away at that handle.
R- I'm winding this down, this is a chain what runs on a drum. This is winding the chain in, this is what winds when your mule's running at the bottom of the set. And I'll wind it down so as I can get these ends to go slack otherwise if I don’t, if I don't slacken this chain off it'll be tight and this mule won’t move. That's [what I’m doing], I'm winding down to get the slackness on these ends.
Yes, right.
R- You see, and then when I run it in, which might be on another picture…
Aye well, picture 44, we'll turn over.
R - It might be because you've got to follow it in sequence you see?
Yes, that's it, 44. Ah you are still…
R- I’m still doing it here, you see we're talking away.
You are still doing it, you are still winding it down and you are talking away…
R- I’ve wound it down there, and Tommy is going to bend down here now which is in picture 45, to wind the builder up, so as it takes your counterfaller right to the bottom for to wind on them. Now then I’m going to set this mule on now for to run it in a bit so as it winds a little bit on to the spindle at the bottom, underneath the cop ...
Yes, putting that on at the bottom. Yes that's it, aye. Let's go on to picture 48.
R- I'm still running it, I'm still waiting for him winding his builder back.
Yes that's it.
R- Now then, this is where I have wound on picture 47.
47, You can see that it's coming.
R- You can see where I've got my ends slack you see? Now then he's wound the builder back has Tommy. Now then I've brought the ends just a little bit too slack, so I've tightened my chain up, and I'm going to stand on it, which in effect, pulls the mule back, and it tightens them ends up.
Aye that’s it.
R - Which might appear on 48.
Aye 48. They are, they are tightening up.
R - They are tightening up, but you can run it up with your ends slack just like that. Some has them a lot slacker than others. It just depends, you see.
I see Arnold's coming to the wheelgate.
R- But Arnold’s coming, yes he’s probably coming helping us to put some pirns on.
Aye, that’s it. No, he's come for something else is Arnold. Now then, on 49.
R- On 49 I've, we have already run that in now and got the bit on the bottom. So I’m loosening that chain off there, ready for when we take the cops off, for to run it in. That makes the winding fallers come up when we run it in. I've got to have some slack on there or else that winding faller won't come up.
Yes that’s it.
R - In effect it, there's another…
The winding faller is the faller that goes quietly up and down and…
R- The winding faller goes up and down and is what shapes your cop.
Shapes the cop. Yes.
R - That's winding on to your cop is your counterfaller. But your winding faller, that's your winding faller, the big one that come s up and what controls your ends.
(800)
Now the counterfaller in the one that controls whether it's spinning or winding, isn't it? Is that right?
R – Yes, that's right. And you also have a chain, this chain works when it's running and winds itself you see?
Yes. Now then what's this fellow's name here, who is walking…
R - Donald Braithwaite.
Donald Braithwaite. That’s it.
R- He is the tuber.
Yes. And he is in the wheelgate to give you a hand with the doffing.
R - To give us a hand with the doffing. Well, he waits while we take these pirns off, these cops off, and he puts the empty pirns on.
Yes well we have a picture of him doing that aye. Now then, on 50.
R - On 50 I'm taking these cops off.
Yes. Now every time I watch you doing that I'm always frightened for you. I’m always thinking ‘Christ almighty he is going to get a spindle up through his arm.’ because of the speed you move at.
R- And yet some can take them off faster than me. But it’s a silly thing to do, really with these because in the bottom of them pirns they have what they call rubbers, the rubber bungs they call them.
Yes. I've noticed them.
R - Now then them, they're hard, when you press them down on your spindles and there’s been quite a lot of people being ruptured taking the pirns off.
Ah, with them, one being stuck on the bung, yes.
R – Stuck. They just pull like that, and they stretch and they’ve been ruptured. There's one bloke working in the top room, Frank Pilling, he's had two, one at either side.
Aye.
R - And that’s why I don't rush, I take my time.
Why at either side? He must have been doffing left handed and all.
R - Probably, I don't know, but he's had two and I know none of them lads what work there has had any, but some of the old spinners, they’ve had ruptures, and it's all caused through pulling them off.
Yes. You can see there how it's right down at the bottom. You can see how the counterfaller is shooting right down to the bottom.
R- Right down. The counterfaller is right down on to the bottom, on to the spindle rail as it’s called.
Yes you can see how it's right round the bottom yes.
R- All that yarn is going down the bottom.
(40 min)
Yes and it’s running over the winding faller isn’t it.
R- That’s right.
Aye, that's it. Oh we have this big one at the top with the…
R – Yes, that’s the big one with the big sickle.
That's it.
R - The counterfaller's the little sickle, yes.
Yes. Now you've set off there, and you are piling them up on your arm.
R- I'm taking them and putting them on my arm.
Aye and on 51 Donald stepped in as soon as there is a gap and he is following you on isn't he?
R - And he is following me on, putting them empty pirns in.
Yes but he doesn't push them down, he just pops them on doesn't he?
R- He puts them on and I press them down.
Yes, he just pops them on. Well, there is a picture of you doing that, aye. And you go on until you have got a right armful and on 52 you’ve gone on and…
R- I've gone on and on 52 I'm putting them in the box.
You've got, you are popping them into the box. But how many will you get in an armful ?
R - I can get three bobbins off in an armful.
Yes but I mean in an armful, how many will you get into your arm, you'll finish up ..
R- Well, three bobbins, ninety cops.
Ninety? Ah, I see what you mean. My fault, I keep thinking of bobbins as pirns.
R-Yes well, three of them bobbins at 30 ends each, that’s 90.
Yes, 90 cops.
R- I can get 90 in an armful so in effect I only need to get three armfuls for to do that doff.
And while you are doing that Tommy is working away on the other half of the mule.
R - Tommy is doing his half you know, right.
Yes that’s it aye.
R - And I mean, when I have done that I go over and help Tommy to put the pirns on, over that other side, because Donald, the tuber only puts half a side on. You see? And he puts half a side on the other pair over the other side. But as a rule, no, by rights he should put them pirns on there and when he's finished he should come down and help us but he doesn’t do.
Tell me, I think you told me once that Donald is a spinner and all isn’t he?
R- He is a spinner, he is a spare spinner, but he is one of those is Donald, there’s one or two spinners worked with him but in effect he is hopeless as a spinner is Donald. So they took him off and he'll only go on as a spare spinner now. If somebody is off. Because there's been that many worked with him and they've complained about him, they can’t get any weight off with him and he is very slow and he just doesn’t bother about the job you know.
Yes. No, he is a slow sort of a bloke to look at him.
R- Yes and yet he is not old is Donald, he is only about 34.
Is that right.
R- Yes, he is not so old isn’t Donald, only he looks it because he is very serious you see, and he looks about 50 does Donald yes.
Aye, he looks, I'd have said he was 50. Eh, you surprise me.
R- Well he is about 34 is Donald and he lives at the top of Charles Lane.
So you are 14 years older than Donald. God, you'd think it went the other way around wouldn’t you.
R - And he walks up and down like an old carthorse does Donald.
Aye. Anyway, 53.
R- 53 is that of your ordinary presser, and the pirns on the mule. Which in effect I go down, pick that up and push them down.
Yes. There is a picture, if you look at 54 there is a picture of you going on your way.
R- I look at 54 ... and there I go, pressing them down. Which is hard work with them rubber bungs 'cause some of them, they've only just put new bungs in them and they are hard rubber and sometimes you've to take them off and spit on them.
I've seen you do it.
R - Spit down it, then it's wet, and it slides down on there.
I’ve seen you do it.
R- But when you come to take them off and you have doffed…
Yes. Stuck on.
R- They are hard, they are hard. Then you have to get a cop off, and you have to knock it from underneath to get it off.
Yes. I've seen you do that and all.
R- Now then, that's the sort of thing that I said earlier on about ruptures.
Aye, that's it, yes.
R- You start rushing and start riving them off then you are in trouble.
Yes, aye.
R- And it’s not worth it, rushing about like that just like you know…
No there isn't no, ‘cause you are ruptured a long while.
R - And you are off for a few weeks.
Yes. You never get them perfect, they never stitch you up right.
R- No, I don't think you are ever right after a rupture.
No, no, you are not, a rupture can be a funny thing. Anyway 55 is going to be the finishing picture for this tape.
R – So, picture 55 ...
And that's just a close-up.
R - That's a close up of the pirns being pressed down, ready for when I want them.
Now then just to make sure that all the local gentry have got it right; when we talk about the faller wires, now that bottom one there…
R – That’s the counterfaller.
That's the counterfaller. Now that is the one which normally governs whether your thread is spinning or winding isn’t it.
R – Yes.
(900)
Now the faller, the next one, that is the one which oscillates up and down and quietly moves up the cop.
R- That's right, yes.
And builds up your package and that also governs the thickness of your package doesn’t it?
R – Yes, but with this faller, the same as you said it governs that all up and down your cop. It goes up and down all the time till it gets a full cop.
Yes. Yes that's it, aye. And what did you call this at the bottom here?
R- That’s your spindle rail, it's a spindle rail is this.
Spindle rail yes. That's it, aye where the countersunk screws are in aye.
R- Yes, and then under them spindles, each has its own individual bearing.
Yes that’s it.
R - And a brass, each has a brass bearing.
Yes. And you oil all them, that's where the oil always flies out of.
R- That's where the oil goes down and it flies out through there and on to the carriage here.
Yes.
R- That's why, how your waste sticks on, it’s all sticky.
Yes. And all your ends are stuck down under your spindle there.
R - That's all your ends under your spindle, ready for pulling up on…
Yes. And I think we should point out that these are aluminium pirns and they are to go straight on to the Northrop looms aren't they.
R- Certainly. Yes.
Aye, well thanks very much Jim, I think that's made a good job of them pictures up to now. We’ll call that a do for tonight.
R- Yes. Eh, it’s half past nine.
SCG/15 July 2003
8,762 words.