THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON AUGUST 21st 1979 AT 26 HARGREAVES DRIVE, RAWTENSTALL. THE INFORMANT IS JIM RILEY, MULE SPINNER AT SPRING VALE MILL. THE INTERVIEWER IS STANLEY GRAHAM.
We are carrying on with the description of the pictures in the Spinning Folios and we are still talking about picture number 88. Now, two big cast iron beams with Taylor Lang’s name on again. Now funnily enough that one says, does it say 1919?
R- 19191 yes.
Yes and the plate on the end of the mule is 19 hundred and , ah, that’s upstairs on the top floor.
R - That's the top floor.
Top floor, yes of course it is.
R- Them on my mules is 1901.
Yes they are.
R- And one's 1903, so this in the top room.
That’s it. It's the top floors. Aye they must be younger mules, they must be younger than the mules up there.
R- Yes.
Aye. Now, that nearly took us astray then. Whereabouts is that shaft, do you know, that shaft that's hung up at the back with, stretching those ropes. It's got a scroll wheel on the end of it. You know, at the back of your mule, next to the windows there under
(50)
the motors, under the shafting. There's a shaft hung up there on some band for stretching it. Now what’s that shaft? You told me what that shaft…
R- That's a scroll shaft is that.
Whereabouts is that in the headstock?
R- Well that's at the back of your headstock, you can't see it from here.
Its at the back, you can’t see it.
R- You haven’t got a back view of the mule, but it runs all them bands you see. All your bands run on to that scroll at the back. There’s three scroll bands and a quadrant band and your rim band of course. But them scroll bands, them go from your front right to your back on to that scroll shaft, and that controls your mule as well. It controls your speed if you, well, it drawn it up evenly, your mule.
Yes. I mean, I have no doubt that anybody looking at this will realise what we've said all along, what a complicated thing a mule headstock is.
R - Oh, it is very complicated, yes.
I mean, I have heard it said that every engineering motion known to man is in the headstock: of a mule and I can believe it, looking at it because there’s, well I don't know I can't thing of anything that isn't in here except hydraulics. There are no hydraulics in there, but apart from that, hydraulics and electricity excluded, I think everything is in there.
(100)
R - Yes. Now then, this wheel here, what you can see here with teeth on.
Aye, just below the girder with the nameplate on, yes.
R- Just below the fallers, yes. That, as the shaft goes through there, and it goes through inside your carriage. And that sends your tin rollers round inside where your bands go on.
Aye, which drives the spindles.
R- Which drives your spindles, and it goes right through the headstock right to the other ends right through. And that’s all on that shaft is that.
Yes that's a long shaft that isn’t it. It goes right the way right the way through the mule.
R - That's a long shaft yes.
Yes well there is one place where we have got the door open at the front of the carriage, and we can see the spindle bands. Aye that's just looking…
R - Well 87 it's looking down the ropes. See this rope on your left is the check band.
The left one's the check band? Yes.
R - The check band. It goes right underneath. Now then, this band here goes right under the mule and it goes on to that what I've just said, your quadrant at the back. It goes right under the headstock.
When you say quadrant do you mean scroll? ... There is a quadrant on it.
R - That's my check band. And that's my quadrant, this big one at the top.
(150)(5 min)
Ah, the big one at the top, yes, your quadrant.
R- That’s your quadrant, and that's the same. It goes from there and round a pulley under here on the headstock and back round.
Yes it’s actually the same band.
R - It's the same band that goes round.
Yes. And the small one, this…
R – That’s what that is ...
That one there? Is that a rod?
R – No, that's a band. That's what you call a weight band.
Yes.
R - Now then, when it comes from there it goes on to a weight at the front of your headstock and you put a weight on. Now then the more weight you put on that band, the tighter them cops go, it'll tighten your cops up will that. There’s different ways to tighten your cops up but you can tighten it up with that, that's your weight bands and it's got a weight on. I don’t know whether you have got us a view of a mule showing the fronts or not, I'd be able to show you from the front ...
No there isn't.
R- Is there not? No
No there isn't. Aye again you see, that shows there are some more pictures to do.
R- No, there isn't one there, and I thought you might have had one you know? No.
No. I’ve slipped up again Jim.
R – But it’s over here, it's over this front here, in front of the headstock you see?
Yes. In the front of the headstock. Anyway.
R- You see it’s at the other side of this wheel here, at the other side of your rim band. Well actually ...
Now we are looking at picture 90 now.
R- On picture 90 it's there, looking through that hole.
Yes if you look over the top of the wheel that’s holding your rim band.
R- Rim band.
(200)
The double rope, there, you can just see the rounded edge of the weight through the gap in the carriage.
R - The rounded edge and it's a weight is that yes. And it's fastened on to a rope which runs through.
Yes, that’s it.
R- And that's the one there. Now then, this top one here, that’s what, of course, that's your steadying band.
That's what, that's the one that…
R- That runs on to your back shaft.
Yes, that's the one that's right next to the right-hand cast iron bearers. Yes.
R - Right next to the cast iron rod there. This rod goes to your carriage, that controls your carriage fork from the front here. Because it moves does that when you set your mule on with this rod. You set it on and that fork moves over, this rod moves forward, and moves that fork over on to your drive pulley.
Yes, So that alters…
R - On to your drive pulleys.
What’s it on? On to the loose pulley?
R - It's on the loose pulley when it's at the front, then it moves it over and it starts driving. Drives on to your drive pulley.
That’s it. I don’t think anybody will argue against the fact that it’s a complicated piece of machinery.
R - It is.
Complicated piece of machinery. Now then, 88 is just down on the floor next to the, at the front of the headstock.
R – It’s underneath your rim band. That's your rim band what's running across there.
Yes, that’s it aye. Now what's this ratchet on the end?
R - That is what you call your builder, that builds your cops.
Aye.
R- And that's going all the time is them teeth. That builder, I don't know, it must be in the top room but ours has 23 teeth, it's a 23 teeth builder. Now then that just keeps building your cops, it's going all the time. Now then this rail here is what you call your copping rail.
Aye, the rail that's going over.
R - That's going…
Yes, well it's in both 88 and 89 yes.
R- Yes well, all this is combined. It's a copping rail on two copping plates. Now then, that alters your cops as well does that.
Aye. So the shape of those plates, the slope on them and how they are set…
R - The slope on them and how they are set, that shapes your cop does that.
Yes. Aye.
R- But once they've been set then they are right. But this builder at the front, if your cops start going thin, then you take your builder off and put another one with an extra tooth on. If there’s a 22 on you put a 23 on and it fattens your cops up.
Yes because it takes it longer for it to wind up, and it takes it longer to go up so it is thicker.
R - But this actually shapes your cop.
Yes, it puts the shaping into it.
R - It's the shape of your cop, yes.
Aye that's it, aye. Because of course your cop starts off with a taper, it tapers down to the bottom and tapers up to the top as well.
R- It tapers, as well yes. And that's all done by these copping plates and your copping rail.
Aye, that's it.
R- And inside here, this round thing here, and your round one there, they are what they call dyes. And you can alter them, you can take then out, and they are only a little square block with a little screw on, and you can wind them up or down, you see? On both of them. And you can shape your cop with it.
It’s no wonder they have to go to night school Jim.
R - Well it's, there is a lot to learn in a headstock, a lot to learn.
There is that, there is that. And of course the shiny patch on this casting at the front under the, now, wait a minute, that band there is the…
(10 min)(300)
R – That’s your undercarriage band.
Your undercarriage band, that’s the lowest of the ropes, the top ones the rim band in the picture 88.
R - Rim band, yes.
And the lower rope that we’re looking at is the carriage band.
R – Carriage, undercarriage band.
Yes well, if you look at the bottom of the picture, this piece of cast iron. That's where the wheel's running, isn't it.
R- That's where your carriage wheel runs on there yes.
Where it’s polished. Yes.
R - And it’s just flat, it hasn’t got a groove hasn’t that wheel, it's just a flat wheel, see, what runs on there.
Yes.
R - And this is your same picture isn't it?
Yes, picture 89 is the same picture but a close up of the copping blocks and the ...
R- 89 is a close up of the copping rail.
Copping rail rather yes. And the rail ...
R - .. and the rail at the front where your carriage wheel runs.
…at the front that your carriage is running on, carriage wheel's running on. I've heard you talk about a thing called the boot leg, have we come across that yet?
R- No we haven't got it, see you haven't got it I don't think.
Oh dear, well there you are you see, we shall have to… Anyway, keep going…
R- Yes, you have got it later on.
Oh good! We'll come to it then. What’s this one, picture 90?
R - So we are on to 90 now.
Ah, two pages lads, you're right, you're right, 90 yes. Now that's an overall view of everything we have been looking at. Once again I’ll just point out that that rope, the thick rope on the right hand-side that's running down the boards is a driving rope that’s being stretched. It's nothing to do with the mule itself.
R- Nothing to do with it.
It was a driving rope for one of the motors. And well you can see that ratchet, that builder there quite well and the threaded rod. And if you want to, can you alter that yourself?
R - I can take that off and put another builder on yes.
(350)
Yes, that's it, aye. And at the back there looked to be two rods coming out with nuts on them, are those for tightening the check rope up in the …
R - This bottom one, that tightens your check band up which is that thick one at the bottom there. When your mule starts running hard and banging, then you just wind that up a few teeth, just to tighten it up. And the top one is your rim band.
Aye. That tightens your rim band up.
R- That one tightens your rim band and pulls it back. Yes.
Yes, it pulls that pulley wheel back and just tightens it up.
R- Yes. But when you're running, when you start off in the morning, before you go home at night, you slacken that off, take the tension out of it, every night.
Aye, let it take up during the night, let it get elastic during the night yes.
R- Let it take up during the night, yes. And in the morning, then you just take it up a little bit you see? And as, as your mule get warned up later on, after about half an hour just wind it back a few teeth just to take the tension off it again and it'll last a lot longer will your rim band.
Aye, that's it aye.
R - And they always tell you, an old overlooker I used to talk to, he used to say never have a tight rim band because it’s as good as putting a tooth in your, on your twist when you have that too tight and it's driving.
Yes, when you say putting a tooth on your twist, on your twist wheel, on your gear wheel, yes, that’s it.
R - On your twist wheel, on your gear wheel yes. So if you have it too tight it's driving you see so you slacken it off a bit so there’s not a right lot of tension on it. So every night when we go home we just slacken that off, you see. There is a lot of things you've to do, you know?
Christ Almighty there is!
R - But you do it automatically, over the years you know, you just do it.
Well yes.
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R- And people say well how do you find time to do this and that? You know, you just automatically do it. Now 91 ... Now then this is your right hand side of your carriage wheel this is your boot leg.
Ah, that rod that's coming down from underneath the stop rod, the bend in the stop rod?
R- From the bend in the stop rod. It's all one is that, that's all your boot leg. And this at the bottom of your boot leg, that's what you call your sickle, that's a sickle. That changes your fallers does that sickle. It's got a little stop thing inside there and it goes on to there.
Now is that what Tommy was on with while you were getting ready that day to doff? Was Tommy on with that boot leg?
R- Well# yes, when you get ready for doffing you wind your builder back at the front, here. You hook your fallers down and you pull that boot leg up and put a little block underneath it so at it takes your counterfaller down to your spindle rail.
Aye, that's it aye.
R- So that’s what your block's there for, that's what your boot leg’s there for.
Yes, that block we were looking at on the front of the headstock yes.
(15 min)(450)
R- On the headstock, that goes underneath this boot leg here you see? This square here, it's all boot leg is that. And it's a block, a big square block; and it runs on to this rail.
The rail that’s running along the floor underneath. Yes.
R- What's running along, that’s your copping rail is that rail.
Aye, and that's the rail that's altered by those blocks that we saw, isn’t it, the position is altered by those blocks.
R – Yes. And them, there's a screw here, right at the, well just nearly at the top and that little one at the top and all there. That alters your cop, your height of your cop. If you slacken that nut off there, either drop it or knock it up a bit it takes the bottom of your cop farther up your spindle.
Yes, that's it, like where it starts to wind, yes.
R- Where it starts to wind. You can take it up or drop it farther down. Now then the other pair, they are running sale weft just at the present and they are on Welsh hat. Now then they have been altering that today you see because them Welsh hats probably go farther up the spindle. So therefore you've to alter this boot leg to get it up to starting at the bottom you see. That's what your boot leg does is that.
Aye. And I notice all underneath that carriage there’s a piece of tin plate isn’t it. Is that to catch the oil drips?
R- This was all tin yes. Yes, it catches hold of your oil and what have you and then it gets cleaned up of course when we clean and they're right shiny is them tins.
Aye they will be with being oiled up all them years yes.
R- They are very shiny yes. Now then, what are we on to, 92.
Aye picture 92.
R - It's just a front view of your spindles with the cops on.
That's it aye. And those are, that’s it. And the rollers, and the guide wires, and it just shows where the roving's going in.
R – Yes, But I’ve told you at one time about them rollers, why they are leather.
They are leather. Now tell me again, now we are talking about the darker rollers which are on top of the metal rollers, yes?
R - Which are on top. Yes, on them small ones. Now them are leather and underneath the leather there’s, they've put some stuff underneath to absorb oil, it's a covering underneath. And, they once tried, when I worked at Oak Mill at Dunnockshaw they once tried some plastic rollers. Well, with plastic, if they get oil on or they get damp it stays on top of your roller with being plastic, it doesn't soak in, it doesn't absorb it. That's why they always have leather rollers, they are easy to clean. They get very dirty does the other rollers, plastic ones.
Yes, those are the ones that the rubber's running across, that clearer's running across.
R - That clearer runs across them to clean them up.
Aye, it runs across.
R- But if you get oil on them, leather rollers, it soaks in, it’s absorbed you see?
Yes. Of course that was taken during the holidays when all them mules were stopped. And 93 is the same picture really, but a bit lower down. It shows the door open in the front.
R- That's the spindle board, that's the spindle board at the front.
Yes that's it aye. Now your tin roller's inside there, at the back isn't it?
R- The tin roller is in the back there what your bands go on to that go on to them spindles.
Yes you can see the pulleys at the top, you know, at the top you can just see the pulleys.
R- Yes you can see some pulleys and just the band going through on to your tin roller.
And, at the bottom where that point looks to be going into that wood there is a brass bearing isn't there?
R- It’s a little brass bearing, you oil them, you put oil in them.
Yes. How often?
R- Twice a week, Monday morning and Wednesday morning. Some don’t oil them some oil them only once a week, some oil them once a fortnight. But if you don't you'll get them squeaking. And at the top of your spindle rail, this narrow board under here, then under there you have little bearings, brass bearings. That's where your spindle goes into, that’s full length of your spindle there. Now then we oil them once a week.
Aye. And that wood's just about soaked in oil isn’t it.
R- Just absolutely soaked in oil and your carriage inside gets soaked. And when you scour, the oil all inside there has to be cleaned out with rags. It's to soak all your oil up and clean them all out. And you do all theme spindles on their own, individually, clean them all off and wipe all down inside with a rag. That's what you have to do when you're scouring.
Do you take the spindles out when you scour? No?
(550)
R – No, you take your top board off, and then your spindle’s will lift up. Then all as you do is put a piece of rag in underneath with your fingers and dry it.
Aye.
R- I think it's coming to the end here, Stanley.
Aye, we are coming to the end. Aye well now this is the end. I mean that is in fact a picture in the bale warehouse downstairs.
R - In the bale warehouse.
A very uninteresting picture after the mules I might say, because…
R – Yes, that's where the bales come in, what's coming from your press.
That's it, they take them in there, don't they?
R - They come in there, you see, for, when we're sending them out, you see?
Before they're sending them out. That’s what the fork lift truck’s there for, lifting them on the wagons. I don't know Jim, it’s very uninteresting after the mules is that.
R - It is, it certainly is.
Right. Well that's all the pictures. That's gone through the pictures then so we’ll finish the rest of this tape off just clearing any loose ends up there are. Now, one thing that we started talking about before but we never really got round to it, was the fact that I think that nearly all textile workers have always been underpaid. I know that most workers think that they are underpaid but textile workers, especially in recent years, have always been well below the national average for working people. And I know that your wage is still the same. Now you were telling me how much you were getting when you were at Grane Road in 1968.
R – No, when I worked at Oak Mill at Dunnockshaw in 1968.
At Dunnockshaw, that's it aye. Yes.
R- Which was £18 a week.
£18 a week. I’m trying to remember, 1968, I'm trying to think where I was. 1968 I was working for ... 1968, that's 10 - 11 years ago. Yes well, 1968 I was just coming away from the dairy, and I was on £17 or else £18 a week. And I know there were quite a lot of people in engineering and such that were on a lot more than me, £17 or £18 a week and you were on?
R - I were on £18.
£18 a week then. Yes, and what’s your normal wage now. I know you can’t really say a flat wage with mule spinning now.
R – No, it isn’t a flat wage.
1979, you know with all your bonuses and everything else on top, what sort of a wage can you make in 40 hours?
R - £62.
£62 that's gross?
R - That's gross, before they take anything out, yes.
Yes. Well now, when you come to consider that at the moment we have engineers out on strike for an £80 pound flat wage, which is before overtime and everything else is added on, overtime and bonus and everything else is added on. It’s not a good wage that.
R – It’s a poor wage for the job as we are doing.
Yes. And another thing to consider is the amount of skill and the amount of experience that goes into it. And I think that, I really do think that when you take those factors into consideration, you're underpaid.
R - We certainly are underpaid.
Yes it’s a bad wage.
R- It is a bad wage.
But there again, I can remember asking you one question, in all the time you've worked in textile mills, have you ever known the weavers take industrial action and finish it, ah well, weavers and any textile workers take industrial action and finish up better off than when they came out?
R – No. I don't think we have ever been on strike, spinners.
Never?
R - Never as I know. We have never been on strike.
Well there you are.
R - And every rise we’ve put in for has been cut by half. We have never got us full rise as we put in for. We once put in for a 13% rise but we only got 7%.
(650)(25 min)
How much a week is the Union dues?
R - 20p a week I pay.
20p. Aye. What do you think of the Union? Do you think that they are a good Union? Do you think they are a good thing for you?
R - I think they are a good thing is the Unions. But they, our Union's never been right strong. They were years ago, right at the beginning, when I went on piecing and when I were a young lad. Then there were a lot of textiles, a lot of spinning then, that's when the unions were strong. Then, that's when they should have fought for better conditions and pay when it was strong. Not now you know, it’s nearly finished with now is the textile trade.
What’s your Union?
R - Just the Spinners Union.
Spinners? That’s it?
R - The Spinner’s Union.
It’s different than the cardroom workers?
R – Yes. Cardrooms are like the Textile Union.
Aye. There'll be very few spinners, there'll be very few. Oh, of course there will be the ring spinners.
R – There will be. I don't know whether they are in ours or not. But our Union's folding up, Spinners Union in Haslingden, the branch, and it's folding up in November because they haven*t enough members. We have only about 80 or 90 members in Rossendale now.
Can’t you tell then to cash all their assets and distribute them to the members that’s left? It'll be like winning the pools.
R - That's what they are doing.
Is that right?
R- They are folding up and all the money's being shared out between the members what's left.
Aye.
R- Yes. And the people what's eligible for pay out are the people what’s been made redundant or retired, from 1976 until now 1979. But the people what finished in textiles, give their notice and finished, they don't get anything at all. But all the members what's in now is getting paid all what's due to them you know.
Oh, and what would their assets be?
R – I’ve no Idea. I’ve heard as their assets in just this branch alone were about £14,000.
Well, and have they got a building? You know, have they a building of their own, you know, for offices?
(700)
R- No. No they just have their offices. They’re over working man’s club.
Oh well, you look as if you might finish up with 30 or 40 quid then at least.
R - Well a lot more than that I think. Yes, and it folds up in November; and there isn't a right lot of members to pay out to.
Oh well, at least you’ll be getting one consolation out of it.
R - So we will all get a bit of sommat out of it, you know? Now when this Union folds up, then we're going to the Allied Textiles Union which is with the card room workers. In with the card room that’s where we are going.
You are very lucky really to have got a pay out I'm telling you, because I mean the situation could easily have arisen where they said alright, we’ll amalgamate with the Allied Textiles, and they take over our assets.
R - Allied Textiles. Well, a lot of Unions, if you go and join another Union you have got to pay that Union so much money for to join.
Yes, aye.
R - But they have enquired about it have the Spinning Union and they said they don't have to pay any money into the Allied Textiles we can just go in and be a member.
Aye. So they are going to divi up! Good show. I’m glad to hear you are having one windfall. I think I’ll have to get into the Spinners Union right sharp. Now another little thing that I know you can tell me something about. I was talking to you, as usually happens I was talking to you while the tape wasn't on and we were talking about deliberate sabotage you know? I mean, like warp stabbing in weaving sheds. And you were telling me about something that once happened to you down at Grane Road which was sabotage of a sort, but wasn't really the same thing as warp stabbing. Now you tell me about it.
R- No, it was sabotage by birds funnily enough. At Grane Road they've a lot of what they call skylights, little windows what open in the roof and they always leave them open. And birds has always come in, and they have nested in the mill and they have never got them out. When the old Harry Hardman, the old boss, what’s dead of
Course now, he used to say let the birds come in if they want to come in. They never shut them out and they have always come in since then, they've never bothered about them, they've come in and flown round and gone out again. Now then, this particular Monday when I came into work one Monday morning, I came in and I got the shock of my life. All the bobbins had all been picked all the way down the mill on both sides on top of the creel and all them what were in the mule. And the birds had come and pecked all them little black seeds out of them, and spoiled all the bobbins. So we
had to take every one out and get the card tenter off her cards and we had to ready all the card bobbins down before we could put them in again. Now then we did all that. The morning after we came in again and the same thing had happened, picked them all again. So at the finishing up we had to get some old cloth out of the warehouse and every night when we stopped we used to have to cover all the bobbins up to stop them from picking on them because they certainly made a mess because we had to ready
all the bobbins on every one. And they picked out just odd places all the way along thirty ends, all the way along.
Do you think it was because you had got a sort of cotton in that had a lot of seeds left in it?
R – That’s what they were after, yes, that little seed.
Aye. There always used to be a lot of birds at Bancroft in the tape room. In fact Joe Nutter and Norman Gray who's died now, Norman in particular had them trained, he had the sparrows trained they'd come and eat off his knees. He’d be sat there having his sandwiches, and he used to put a little bit on his knee and the sparrows used to come and sit on his knee and he used to feed them, always fed them. And I remember that Ernie Roberts called them flying mice, and I thought that was a very good description for them really because that was just what they were.
R - That's what they were yes.
But, I tell you when sparrows used to cause me trouble. When they got into the engine house. If you got one in the engine house. Because on the beams right up in the top there was a lot of dusty and you had the engine all polished up, and a bird would get in and they were usually starlings not sparrows, land they'd flap round trying to find their way out, and they were knocking dust down off the top, and it's dropping down and on to the carpets they could make a mess.
R - Yes they can yes.
Oh they can make a hell of a mess. Terrible.
R- But a lot of them birds used to come in like for food, you know. What, after what some, they used to put it down, bread and that for them to come in you know and, and eat it, and ...
(800)
Aye, well, we are getting near the end of this tape and it looks as if mule spinning is going to go on. I don’t know I was talking to Richard Hardman and he says there's nothing to replace it, it looks as if mule spinning's going to go on into the foreseeable future. But if it does finish, you know, if mule spinning does finish before you retire, what would you think you know, would you be glad it finished or how?
R - Oh no, it's been a good living for me, has spinning. I’ve enjoyed it, I'm still enjoying it. But what I'll do if it closes I don't know, it'll be another job like but I shall be sorry.
I'm not thinking really of Whitakers closing down you know, I'm thinking more or less of them getting another process to replace mule spinning you know? I don't know what sort.
R- Well I don't know what they can find. The same as you said about Richard Hardman, what he said about spinning, and they can't get anything to replace it, not to make yarn good enough as what the mules make. Nowhere like, nowhere near it.
And yet when those mules do eventually wear out what do you put in to replace them you know?
R- I don't know. I've no idea.
It makes you wonder how long you could keep a mule running. I don't know, I think… ...
R- Well it’s a matter of buying spare parts isn’t it? I mean Hardman’s has always had a lot of spare parts. They had a store room down there at Higher Mill in the bottom room and that were just there for spares only, and it were littered with spares. Every part on a mule you can mention, they had it. And they used to have a church on top of Grane Road before they pulled it down, and that were full of spares for the mules. But a lot of parts what break, they can weld them. You see weld them, they can do them themselves. And they have a lot of spare wheels and things like that. So I think they can maintain them for a good number of years yet.
Yes. When you look back, I was looking the other day when I was coming down to see you, I stopped and had a look at that little row of houses, you know, where Loveclough Working Men’s Club was.
R - Oh that, yes. That what’s pulled down.
And it's leaning forward, and…
R- Yes the front's all bellying out.
Do you ever look at it yourself and then think about how you live today and think of the difference?
R- Well I looks at it many a time. I looks at Loveclough when I goes up sometimes, when I go up to the club, I goes up sometimes to the club
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and I have a good look round and it just takes you back a bit you know when you were younger and we used to play and the place seems … A lot of things has disappeared, they pulled a lot of things down, a lot of buildings. But the place itself is still the same and all the memories flood back, you know? It's the same as anything else, it’s progress. The old uns have got to come down and make way for the new. But there's nowhere in that village for to do any shopping now, they have all to go to Rawtenstall or to Burnley now you see and it spoils it. All there is in Crawshawbooth like, there's a Coop at Crawshawbooth.
Yes, that’s it aye.
R - And that’s about all and a little sub-post office.
Aye and a lousy chip shop.
R – Yes, they have a chip shop. I don't know what it's like, it's lousy is it?
Oh, it’s lousy. I had to go in there the other night for some fish and chips going home. My God, I needn't have bothered. But no, I was just looking at it as I come past. I tell you the thing that strikes me about that row of houses, I did a picture of it, I'll let you have one of the pictures, the size of the stones in the chimney flues.
R - Oh yes, some big ones, isn't there?
Tremendous. Especially at this end, looking from this end, tremendous stones.
R - They were built to last, weren't they then?
Oh they were and yet they're bellying out eh? There’s something gone wrong somewhere.
R- Well they are now. But I mean that club what's there now. It were made into a club, it was just ordinary houses you see. And the upstairs room were just two bedrooms they knocked the middle, the dividing wall, knocked it into one big room. And the amount of music and dancing, and what's gone on in them rooms. It’s surprising what punishment it’s taken.
Oh, that's happen what’s brought the walls out!
R- People blitz, yes. But they used to have, it’s not long ago, they used to have pop groups up there. Yes, there used to be dancing upstairs and they used to say “Eh, that floor’s going to go through!” And they used to have it surveyed every year and they came and tested all the rooms and they were pretty sound. Aye, good old buildings.
Anyway, it won’t be long, they are building the new club behind there. It won't be long before they’ll be doing away with that lot altogether.
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R- Yes they are. Yes, Christmas, they want it to be in by Christmas, in that new Club. All being well and weather permitting you know.
Yes. They’ll be busy.
R – Yes and the rest of that will be knocked down then. I think it’s being landscaped. That’s what they were saying.
That's a better row altogether, the next one down towards Crawshawbooth isn’t it.
R – Yes, that next to the…
Yes, a better row of houses altogether.
R – That’s what they call Brading Terrace is that, or Brading Terrace is round the back actually, on the front it’s Burnley Road.
That’s it. Are those the top houses? Are those the ones you used to live in there? Are they the ones with the cellar houses behind?
R- The cellar's underneath there.
I didn't realise that that was the row.
R – Well, when I got married we went into one of those houses round the back, Back Brading Terrace is that and on the front they’re Burnley Road because they are back to back houses some of them.
Yes. When you got married were you in one of the upstairs ones or one of the downstairs ones?
R - We were in one of the upstairs ones where those cellars were underneath, where they lived under there.
So you went back over, living over the top of the house. Aye.
R- Over the top of the house we lived in there.
So were those really back to back then, those houses?
R- Some of those have been broken through, and some's back to back. I think there's two or else three that’s back to back. And the others had been knocked through from the front.
Aye. I must have a very careful look at them, because it's a very interesting road.
R - But underneath there's just the cellars.
And they are in very good condition aren’t they.
R- A good row is that.
Yes. What number was it you lived in then?
R- 7 Back Broading Terrace that were round the back then.
Number 7? Aye.
R - Well, my father lives in, round that back, he lives in the middle house, number 3.
Does he? Number 3?
R - Number 3, round the back.
Aye. So, he lives in the same terrace that you used to live in? Aye, that’s good is that. I shall have to have a look at that. Does he still go up to the club your dad?
R - Just a few odd times, not a right lot. He goes to Crawshawbooth a lot, to the Progressive at Crawshawbooth.
Yes. Well, very good Jim. I think we’ll call it a do at that. Once again, I keep telling you but thank you very very much. You have been a great help to me.
R- My pleasure.
Well I hope it has been a pleasure.
SCG/17 July 2003
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