THIS TAPE HAS BEEN RECORDED ON APRIL 30TH 1980 IN THE CARDER’S CABIN AT SPRING VALE MILL, CHARLES LANE, HASLINGDEN. THE INFORMANTS ARE CHARLIE GOWERS, CARDER AND JOE PILLING, UNDER CARDER. THE INTERVIEWER IS MARY HUNTER.
OK? Well we are feeling a bit better now we've had our lunch. 1 think are we? And perhaps if we start now looking at the spinning folios. Joe, you've got number 1 there have you?
R/J - Yes.
Now then, what have we got there.
R/J - Well we’ve got the view of Spring Vale, of Waterside Mill.
R/C - We've got the views of days gone by ...
Views of day ...
R/C It shows the railway which is no longer there
R/J Yes, that's it.
There's been a lot of change really in a year, hasn’t there?
R/C - Terrific change.
Because they're building a motorway through, are they?
R/J- Yes, the Flip’s there. [Chris Aspin tells me that the Flip was a nickname for the Dyer’s Arms.]
R/C- Yes, where there is the pub.
Oh the pub in the bottom left hand corner is it?
R/J- Yes.
R/C- They used to buy beer at the pub for the devil workers, the dust workers. Every day they got a pint of beer, originally.
When was that?
(50)
R/C - In years gone by.
R/J - Years gone by. I can't remember that here. But we used to nip over for a pint at dinner time and at night.
R/C – Yes, the old Flip.
Which is Waterside Mill.
R/J - That one right opposite.
Opposite Spring Vale
R/C Spring Vale
R/J Yes.
Which motorway is it that's coming through?
R/C - I don’t know what it’s called.
R/J - It's the Haslingden by-pass isn’t it?
R/C – Yes.
Oh just a by- pass. It’s not…
R/C- It’s a by-pass road.
R/J - It's the Haslingden by-pass yes.
R/C - Only a by-pass.
Very good, yes. If we have exhausted that one. Now then, number 2.
R/J - Number 2. We've still got a view of the Spring Vale.
R/C - But there is progress there with another building that's been built in the last twenty years, a new warehouse.
Which one's that?
R/J - Bale warehouse.
R/C - To carry the stock of bales for the expanding trade at the time.
Oh yes, where I park outside . Yes, so the warehouse that’s used now is an addition to the 1847 build.
R/J- It’s been added.
R/C- And one thing about that warehouse, it stands in the place where the original Mill Lodge was.
Does it?
R/J – Yes.
Now then, because it was a water mill was it?
(100)
R/C - Not a water wheel but it was the same sort of water supply.
R/J - It were steam, It was driven by steam.
R/C - By steam yes.
R/J- And we used to get water from there.
What is that on the top where they've got L Whitaker & Sons Ltd, was that full when it was steam?
R/J- No that’s, I think that's for the sprinklers is it? Emergency supply.
R/C - That was a supply for the fire supply, it was the highest point of the mill they had.
Yes. For gravity feed.
R/J- Yes to fill that up. And that was to get free water in days gone by, with the rain, being such a rainy district it soon fills up. [Wrong actually, it was filled from the mains and in the event of fire topped up by the sprinkler pump]
Yes. I gather, I don’t know whether it's exactly correct, but it was a water mill until 1847 when it was pulled down and immediately re-built.
R/C - Oh I don't know.
You don't? No. On number 3 it tells us of course when it was built ...
R/J the date is 1847, yes.
(5 min)
Is there any reason do you think for the…
R/C - The archways?
Yes.
R/C - Yes, they were the original doors.
Were they?
R/C - That's where they used to put doors in old mill buildings. It was always in an arch. They built them that way for a great strength of the wall.
I see.
R/C - More pressure, the more pressure went on there and it held it.
(150)
So that’s now the windows into the devil room isn't it?
R/C - No they are .. just the same an you'll see at the museum.
Yea they are. Those are the ones here, aren't they?
R/J- Them are them.
Are they?
R/J – Yes right in the devil hole.
R/C - Number 4 ...
Now then, number 4
R/C - Ah well, no comment there as I can’t see owt can I? We have no actual comment have we?
R/J- That's our manager working hard.
R/C- Working hard.
Yes, well I don’t know what I quite make of that. Oh yes you are moving on too aren't you?
R/J- Yes.
R/C - Number 5. we are on number 5.
R/J- Well we .. we can’t say much about that .. can we?
R/C - No we can’t.
R/J - Only it is a nice calendar. [I always got a calendar in the pictures if possible. A good date evidence if all else fails] Number 5 now, the loading bay.
That’s the waste coming in, is it not?
R/J- Yes that’s how they unload the wagons.
What sort of waste in that, do you know off hand?
R/C - Cop waste.
Cop waste?
R/C - All cop yes, the cleanest waste yes.
Which doesn't have to go through the devil room am I right?
R/C- That, that goes through the devil. It doesn’t have to go through the Jumbo.
R/C- Yes it goes through the Jumbo.
R/J- This is the Jumbo waste this lot. Yes. It's what we call ‘ring and winders’.
R/C- It’s the cleanest waste you can get. It's already been processed, It’s already been spun, and it…
R/J – It’s been used.
R/C – It’s been cleaned and it's the best waste you can get.
Even though it has to go through all the processes.
R/C - Yes still the best. The biggest trouble is breaking it, making sure it’s broken to the best of your advantage, if you overdo it it spoils it and if you don’t do enough it's hard for spinning and it leaves all thread, spun thread.
R/J - Lots of bad ends.
Which waste is it that doesn't have to go through the first stage then and comes straight on to scutcher?
R/J- That's the comber bales.
R/C – That’s the comber bales yes. All the other waste.
R/J- We haven’t come to them yet.
Right, sorry. Are these all the same bales on this wagon?
R/C Well no, they don’t look all the same.
R/J- No this is the comber bale, here.
The upstanding one.
R/J- Yes. And these are for the Jumbo. You can tell that when he’s taken them in the middle room. The rest go to the top room.
What do you mean by the top room?
R/C - Right at the top of them all, the store room.
Oh have you. Oh yes there is. I've been there once.
R/J- Yes. That’s where they store them. And when we need them they lower them down back into the middle room.
Ok I see. Yes.
R/C - Right.
R/J- Number 6 coming up. Oh it just shows them taking them in. It just shows them taking them off the crane and fetching then in to weigh them does that one.
R/C- Straight on to 7 from there can’t you.
R/J - Now he is weighing them.
R/C - On number 7 It shows the process where the weight is checked to make sure they're getting the right weight for each bale's number.
(10 min)(250)
So each bale is weighed before it's sent out and you have an invoice or whatever, you've got to check it.
R/C - So they want checking.
R/J - I'm just waiting there.
And are they usually right?
R/J- Not so far out.
R/C – No, never so far out. And what’s a very important fact is when the wrappings are taken off, the sacking and the wire, they should be weighed.
The sacking and the wires?
R/C- When they've all been taken off they should be weighed and checked again.
Yes. Before…
R/J- For they allow you a tare weight.
R/C- For as long as I can remember when we used to get our to bales in all that were extra you see, extra cost, so it was put down. See, it was gross weight and net weight so you had to be very careful, and that were very important to check those.
Yes. I am with you, yes.
R/C- It’s loss, say you were buying something at twenty pence a pound and they were charging ten pound, well they shouldn't have been for the ...
Because of the total weight of all the sacking.
R/C- And they’d go on and on and on ... it you keep checking they’ll keep on right.
Yes, do you check weigh?
R/J- Yes. Aye we still check. But we don’t weight the packing now, it’s a standing amount now, so many kilos for tare weight don’t they.
Tare weight? [When weighing something contained in or carried on something else there are three key weights: Gross which is the total. Tare which is the weight of the packing or wagon. Net which is the actual weight of the goods.]
R/J - Yes.
That trunking at the top there what’s that?
R/J- That's to take the dust from the machines that we'll come on to.
R/C - That's an extraction duct.
R/J - We should come on to on page 8 1 think.
We’ll find out shall we?
R/J- Ah, there you are.
R/C - Page 8. We have arrived. This is actually a cop bottom machine, on the old scheme, the only waste there used to be was what remained on the weaver’s cop, in the weaver’s shuttle, what the weaver didn't weave off, just a small amount. But as the years have gone by there isn’t enough available so they’ve had to use full cops or any type of thread waste they can get hold of causing nothing but trouble to the machine because it wasn't meant for it. The machine had to be adapted, it caused break downs, in fact it were dangerous.
Was it?
R/J The jumbo?
R/C Yes.
R/J- Oh aye. We’ve broke some wheels on that haven't we?
Go on…
R/J- And then we got it modified with a motor driving the front. Instead of one belt driving all the machine we got a motor driving the front part of it and then the ordinary drive just drove the cylinder.
R/C - It were causing so many break downs and so much cost, the cost of
getting the wheel made…
R/J - It were a hundred pounds a wheel.
R/C - It were beyond what the machine were worth.
R/J- We were going through 'em every day.
R/C - Simple modernisation would cost the firm not a penny because they already had the material, and they had the fitters and electricians. The job was done very quickly, and driven by belts and that were the end of the matter so there’d never be trouble again.
R/J- We haven’t had trouble since.
When was that done Charlie?
R/C - Last year. This time last year.
R/J- ‘Cause I remember, I remember that for a while last year it was out of action would that be then then?
R/C – Yes, that was the time.
R/J- He should have got a photograph of that wheel.
R/C- Yes.
R/J- That were it weren’t it?
(300)
What, the cog wheel that we can see, the dark one?
R/J- Yes. That wheel kept breaking. It kept breaking straight to pieces. Come right out, about six teeth.
And that’s what you mean by being dangerous, do you? If that was flying out all the time ...
R/J- Yes it used to fly out.
R/C - The old one, they left it rather late to do this. Like Joe and I both knew it were far better to modernise with motors all round and drives in the different sections.
So that if it broke down there's only one section to ...
R/C- well, they break down of course but any breakdowns now are so limited and so it [impossible to run it without breakdowns]
R/J - It was the way it were driven.
Do I understand then from that, that nowhere else will you find ... a what do you call it, a cop…
R/C - Cop breaking machine.
.. Cop breaking machine like this, because you've done your own adaptations to it?
R/C- On that front bit I admit though I don’t know whether they are still in existence that have done these things years and years ago.
R/J- Yes, you won’t see another one like it.
I see.
R/J- I don’t think that they'd done it like this though.
R/C- All they did, they did away with they the big driver and they used a lot of extra motors but there's a big snag in using more electric motors, it's more expensive. One electric motor getting a thing going like this, it's cheaper to run it, don't use the same amps.
R/J- By the way that’s a not the wheel that broke.
Is it not?
R/J- No it’s at the other side.
R/C – No? The other side?
R/J- You can't see it.
Oh well, we might do a bit later on. How long did you have to have them safety screens on?
(15 min)
R/J- We’ve had to have them on. Every time the factory inspector comes round we’ve got to put one on that.
R/C- We had it over the years.
R/J- They've had to, we've had them on a long time. But every time he comes on he always looks so you’ve got to have another one on to cover that up at that side. It were all covered up. That’s why, it’s another thing that's flattened a lot of places, it's cost too much to guard them.
(400)
R/C- Very old machine. They never used to have the guards.
R/J- Did they heck!
No I know.
R/C- In a modern mill with machinery made since the war, or just before the war, it were already guarded. So it shows how old them machines really are.
That's right, yes.
R/C - And that's where the problem lies.
It seems to be a very big belt on that drum ..
R/C- It was a very powerful belt.
R/J- That used to drive the lot you see. It used to drive it all really until they got that motor up at that side. You can't see it, I don't think it's on this photograph. Have we done by number 8?
Yes I think so. Picture 8.01..
R/J- 8.01, It’s only .. can't say much about that.
R/C- Just weighing the bales again, cop bales, thread bales. And one important thing, if he to going to put it down, the idea is to cut them sometimes at the bottom.
Because it's safer.
R/C – No, cut it while he had it there, so that when he put it down he…
R/J – Cutting the tare, aye.
R/C - At one particular time when you wasn't allowed to cut a tare.
R/J- 8.02. There he is opening a bale, cutting the wires.
And his mate's holding the ...
R/C - Holding the wire to stop it flying all over.
R/J - To stop it springing.
Why did you say Charlie that at one time they weren't allowed to cut the tare off?
R/C - Because the suppliers of them tares, they all had to go back and when there are presses these tares fit the press. If you cut them you spoil the tare.
But now they are not used again.
R/C - They are not used again, they are all made of glass fibre material, they won’t accept them back a lot of them. [More likely to be polypropylene material than fibre glass]
Oh, there's still quite a lot of rope type [Jute] ones though isn't there? Not rope, kind of linen, calico, jute I don't know what it’s made out of. Sacking.
(450)
R/C- Trying to think... it's called hemp, yes.
Hemp. Because I've seen quite a few of these in the warehouse.
R/C – Yes. But there are firms who delight in getting hold of those, that sacking we might call it. 'Cause they break it all up and it’s used for some other process. So they'll take them any time. Right, 8.03 Joe.
R/J- 8.03. This in Roland feeding the Jumbo, I call it the Jumbo.
Well that’s what I know it as but I knew it must have a proper name.
R/J- Some calls it a breaking up machine.
R/C- It were called the cop bottom…
R/J- Running down machine. I've heard all sorts of names but I call it the Jumbo. Now Roland just there is putting his normal feed on, which is too much to start with....
R/C- Which he always did.
R/J- As usual.
R/C- He used to overfeed it too much.
R/J- It’d only take so much at a time. If you had a tough piece of steak and you’re chewing it, if you put the lot in it takes ages to get shut of doesn't it?
Yes.
R/J- If you put a little bit on…
R/C- What they used to do at one time which it doesn't show, they used to, when they used to put it through in bale form, they used to put two or three bales down, and it were up to the operative to blend it, so much of it at a time on to the feed lattice to get the perfect blend, the different counts or twist.
R/J- But before that they used to buy cop bottoms in bags.
R/C - Yes they did.
R/J - And we used to empty all the bags and make a right big stack of it and then…
R/C – Yes. Same process.
R/J- ... put it through the Jumbo. They never bought any bale form like this, they were all in straw bags.
R/C- The only reason why it went on to bale forms is because people no longer had room to make large stacks.
R/J – That’s right.
R/C- .. they went out, cotton bins went out, people wanted that room.
R/J- Oh you should have come here then when we had cotton bins there ...
R/C – massive, oh they were a massive thing.
R/J - Horrible.
(500)(20 min)
So there is a maximum amount you can feed into that machine then?
R/J- Yes definitely.
And it’s got to be fairly level I suppose has it?
R/J – Yes, it’s got to be a normal feed, equal all the time. Aye, it comes off the back like a curtain, it comes off like curtaining at the back doesn't it?
R/C- It’s all shredded into thread. Spun thread.
R/J- Which we'll see on 8.04.
He knows what he's doing does Joe!
R/C - He does that.
R/J - That just shows the feed. Now that’s OK.
R/C- That's a proper feed.
R/J - It's a nice feed instead of the rollers taking it in.
R/C - I notice the guard, which should have been down, it should always really have been down, fastened down.
Oh I see yes.
R/J- This guard here should have been laid across.
These spikes presumably are holding it up.
R/C- No, they'd be the spinning spindles(?) they'd only be put up for the photograph.
Yea.
R/J- Now we’ll see the front.
R/C- Right. 8.05.
R/J- On 8.05, where Jim’s just cleaning up there, and this is the wheel that goes.
R/C- Not the one that broke.
R/J- That's the one that breaks. Now you can see, that used to split right in half.
R/C Tell ‘em about the magnets.
R/J- Aye. Them there is at the front. All those at the front there just over Jimmy's head, the magnets to pick …
R/C- Metal…
R/J- Any metals.
It always surprises me that it's at the front end and it isn’t at the feed end, the magnets.
R/C- We can't take it off at the feed end.
Well no you can't but it seems that all the metal that you do occasionally get in has got to go through the whole proceedings and cause what damage there is going to be.
R/J – Has got to go right through.
R/C- The only reason why it is done at the front end is because everything is so solid at the feed end [that the magnets can’t extract the metal] *
R/J – Oh, I see what you mean. It has to go through the machine to do damage if it’s there.
R/C- That's true, yes, always been so.
R/J- And then it's catched here when it's done the damage.
Does it catch everything or does some stuff manage to get through?
(550)
R/J- Oh it doesn’t catch a lot. It only catches small bits of metal but if a large bit come through it’d just go straight off, it’d wipe it straight off.
What sort of things do you get coming through?
R/J- Oh you get all sort of things coming through.
R/C- It’s really like metal bits off weavers pirn ends and that.
R/J- Ends of them and you get nails, razor blades…
R/C- Yes.
Razor blades?
R/J- Oh aye, Stanley knife blades, they use them in some places, well they sell their waste to us, and they will sling them in, we get them here.
R/C- Up to this stage from Lancashire loom weaving and automatic weaving there used to he quite a lot of scratching up combs.
R/J- Yes, we even found a woman’s purse, Alvin Lewis found it with her wage in. He gave it to Johnny and they found the woman that belonged it, her purse, money in it as well.
Good heavens!
R/J - Oh we get all sorts found, cigarette lighters, keys, all sorts. Mind you, they are not much good when they've been through. Shall we go on to 8.06 now? Now that's the way they chuck 'em out... that's 0K.
R/C - Beautiful throw. 8.07.
What’s always amazed me is that there's got to be so much hand moving of this stuff. It falls on to the floor.
R/J- Yes.
R/C - Always was dropped on to the floor.
R/J- That*s the old type, yes. It’s going to be dropped off, or picked up and carried.
R/C - Being an old type of machine there's no efficient means and there isn’t enough room for a lattice to carry it away. But it still needed a man at the front.
R/J - Still needs a man at the front and one at the back.
R/C - So old fashioned
What's this chap’s name?
R/C - Jim Quilton.
What was he doing .. on 8.06?
R/J - Well all he is doing now…
R/C - Making sure it’s coming out isn’t he?
R/J- He is on his knees here making sure it's coming out all right. Because if it gets stuck on to these rollers at the front, he has a piker in his hand there, he has that piker there and he just whips it out again.
R/C- Pulls it out..
R/J- ‘Cause that runs back ...
So it can go back round the drum, I see, like a mangle. Yes.
R/J - Yes. It runs back sometimes. Yes, it runs back.
This is the thing that when it's not operating it leaves on the magnet am I right?
(600)(25 min)
R/J- Them’s the magnets yes. See how it runs down on to the magnets? If there is a little bit of metal in there it'll pick it up, but if it's a fair size one it'll just go through. That's why we have fires in the devil hole.
Is it?
R/J- All metal, foreign bodies. He’s in great thought here isn’t he?
He’s what?
R/J - .. like he’s saying a prayer.
Or is he perhaps praying he’s not going to break down while the photograph's being taken?
R/J – It’s running OK.
R/C- Could be so yes.
R/J- Ah that’s the wheel that breaks.
R/C - Yes, that was the one, always breaking.
R/J- Yes. That’s the one.
What are these two metal supports that stick out?
R/J - Well that’s, if he presses on there he lifts this roller up at this side, so he can get his piker under and pull it through, thread it through.
R/C- It releases the width of the roller, yes.
Ok I am with you, yes. And if he pushed that down does the machine stop or does it keep going?
R/J- No, it keeps going.
R/C- When it does that you just lift them up, that's all.
R/J- Just lifts it up about an inch.
Yes, I am with you.
R/J- So he can get his piker in and thread it back through. See, Roland misses his feed, all that stops and it goes round the doffer at the front.
R/C- The big cylinder.
R/J- So he presses on here, gets his piker underneath and threads it back through.
R/C- Pulls it back through.
Very good.
R/J- 8.08? And that shows you there where he’s gathering it up just to carry it away, and carries it away to the stack on the other side of the Jumbo.
R/C- 8.09 he carries it away.
9.09, yes. That’s a funny thing as well. The fact that he has got to actually pick it up and carry it round to the back of the machine to the feed end of the machine, because the stack’s down that end isn’t it.
R/C- Yes that's true . Correct.
R/j- And the stack’s for the devil hole.
R/C- Once of a day, where there were these storied mills and they had this upstairs they'd have a hole in the floor into a cotton bin, a stacking bin.
(650)
R/J - Just drop it down.
R/C - Just dropped it down.
Well that's what happens here isn't it?
R/C- Yes, but it has to be carried to do it.
Oh I see, of course.
R/J- It has to he carried, stacked, and then handled again to throw it down the chute.
Oh so when you say ‘being stacked’ you mean it is put in a…
R/C- In a stack.
R/J- It’s put in a stack at the side of the wall here.
R/C- Separately again down the chute.
R/J- And then it's to be thrown down the chute. Yes.
Yes because if you kept throwing it down the chute they'd get too much down in the devil hole.
R/J- It’d fill up.
R/C – They’ve no facilities below for big stacks.
R/J- That’s because it comes to fire risk from where it goes down.
R/C- It has a dust extractor on.
R/J- Yes well that's what them pikes were. This is the dust extractor at the front and there's one at the back and it takes all the dust away. Not too bad.
So there were two dust extractors on the Jumbo were there?
R/J- Yes one in the front and one in the back.
Oh 1 see. Yes I am with you. Very good.
R/J- Next on, 8.10. Now there is the dust extractor at the back.
Yes. Now then, you’ve got the makers of the machine.
R/C - There is the name on it.
R/J- Yes, Tatham’s.
R/C- Probably made, I don't know what the date is. Probably made before the first world war. They had a trick in the trade when they had old machinery, if they found a machine being scrapped with a nameplate on with a date, a later date, they'd put it on the machine to make it appear it was made later.
R/J- See there's Tatham’s Limited and Tatham’s and Company.
R/C - That's correct.
R/J - Now when they were when they were ...
R/C -Tatham were a private company when they went ...
Yes, when were that ?
R/C- I don't know when they went public.
So if it says Tatham and Company it's an older than Tatham Limited.
R/J- It'll be older but literally this is Tatham Limited.
R/C- Yes, I dare say that machine was actually made before the first world war.
R/J – 1923 I’ll say.
You reckon 1923 and Charlie reckons before…
R/J- I’m going off the devils.
R/C- Yes, there were a lot of that date changing in this industry.
That's interesting.
R/C - You'll find machines in the card room have had a fresh part put on with the date, which they are interchangeable .. Which actually doesn't belong to the card because you can tell when the card’s been built and you knew they were 1910 yet they carried a 1925 plate.
(700)(30 min)
R/J - So we are going on 8.11 now are we?
Yes we could.
R/J - And this is where the mixing comes in.
It's strictly I guess really out of order because we should go from 8.10 down to the devil room shouldn't we? Because it, it goes ...
R/J - Because it goes on there from the Jumbo.
Yes, but anyway. 8.11 is showing the blending machines is it?
R/C - Start of the blending process.
R/J - Yes they put about twenty odd bales round, won't they?
R/C - There are more there’s twenty and more than twenty bales round four machines. It’s a process where whereby you can make a very cheap mixing.
R/J- That's what it’s for.
R/C- The more bales you put round, the more they can pass a poor quality bale in, to bring the price down.
Right.
R/J - And that’s the idea of, of all these bales.
R/J- You can see the start now of what Jim's built there off the Jumbo and all the dust extractors. Now when that chute gets empty, what we call the chute, he used to come in again and take it off that stack which is already built and put it down again.
He builds it up by hand as there is nothing to make that shape, is there?
R/J- No, he just throws it up.
R/C- And it's just a gravity feed down the chute. And every time it's empty he has to come again and put it up.
R/J- Handling it again isn’t it..
R/C- They’ve no automation at all there.
Do you think those dust extractors are efficient?
R/C - No.
R/J- They are at the back but they are not at the front. And they're not as efficient as they are on the bale breaker, at the mixing are they? It’s full of dust.
What do you call the bale breakers?
R/J- It’s these mixing hoppers.
R/C- In the mixing plant they're all bale breaking machines. They are called bale breakers.
Oh the blending. The ones next to the Jumbo.
R/C- That’s correct yes.
Four of them are there? Four yes.
R/C- There’s four of them.
R/J - Four of them.
A lot of fluff around.
R/J- That’s where it's dirty in there, it's a dirty room.
R/C- It’s a very dirty job is this.
(750)
R/C- When you go into a modern mill you won’t find anything like that, you won’t find anybody in attendance, it's all done automatic. They just put these bales in, as many as they require, probably 21 on three machines, and that's it. They close the door and lock it.
R/J- Yes all they do is take the wires and tares off and shove them on.
Doesn’t make such an interesting photograph though would it?
R/J- No it wouldn't. Right, 8.12.
R/C- It makes an interesting photograph. If you've got that and you've got the old there.
Well, we'll have to think about that after I've gone another twenty years.
R/C- It was, you know, today and yesterday.
R/J - Now we've come to the proper photograph of the mixing machines.
It looks all very nice and clean and airy I think, that photograph.
R/J - It does but it tells a lie.
R/C - It doesn't tell a true story.
R/J- It tells a lie. When the sun's coming through them windows and you are at the top of them steps you could see it all in the air, long fibres aren't they, floating about
Has it ever bothered you two?
R/J- Not up to now.
R/C- I think all of us that have been in this all our working lives up to the present day, we must be full of dust but it hasn't affected us.
R/J- I’ve either digested it .. I think that’s what we’ve done, we ate it.
R/C- Yes.
Do you know what the current trend is for an increase in roughage in dietary fibre in our diet?
R/C - Aye we got enough fibre no doubt.
Yes, you've obviously done that already.
R/C- So, what do you call it? Roughage? We’ve had it.
Yes, for a couple of hours after I’ve left here particularly if I've been in the devil room or upstairs. Sort of…
R/C- Dry in your throat ..
Yes, at the back of my throat, feel I want to suck a sweet.
R/C- Now when we have a holiday and we come back that affects us the first morning.
R/J- I must say it does.
R/C - I were always told when I started in the card room, blowing room, to always drink pints and pints of water.
It's true yes.
R/C- Tea drinking.
R/J- We don't drink water though do we?
R/C- Not now.
I shan't ask what you drink. So it’s all right.
R/J- It looks a nice, clean room there but it isn’t, we know that.
Who decides what sort of mixing they put on these machines?
R/C - The office.
The office.
R/C- The office make out ... they do a…
R/J - They do a costing.
R/C - Costing yes.
R/J- What they add.
R/C- Cost. Very important is that fact.
R/J- They’ll put a few fair good bales down, but they'd put a lot of second class bales down. And when it's all mixed together…
R/C- I should say that.... with us being the waste industry a it’d be more percentage to the bad for our benefits than to the good.
R/J- If we get a bad mixing we have a lot of work in here and in the card room.
(800)(35 min)
R/C- Yes, it means lots of work for everybody.
R/J- It runs bad, things want altering.
R/C- Everybody's upset ... things you can't do to help it ...
So you then have to instruct that operative to… I mean, how do you guess how much you're taking off each bale?
R/C - Unfortunately it's all done by any operative you can get. It's never been classed as a skilled job, that's been the unfortunate part of it.
And yet…
R/C - Anybody who's walking past they'd employ to that job because it's so low pay and such a dirty job.
R?J- This job in the mixing plant, in my opinion, get a conscientious man and he should be paid because that’s where it all starts.
R/C- yes, they should have been paid.
I was just going to say, from what you two are both saying it seems as if that, really, is the hub of the whole thing.
R/C- That is everything.
R/J- Yes, where it all starts. It is this bloke up here feeding this machine. If he doesn't keep them all level .. these twenty bales there have all got to be level all the time and then they are all going in even.
R/C- Must all go down even.
R/J- Well you see some .. he's plenty of stuff on this lot here and he's nowt there. Well that show he is mixing it badly, he is putting in more of that in than this you see?
How do you say, the mixing, how is it described? So you’ve got, what did you say you have? About five or six bales alongside the machine? So what do you say to the chap, how do you describe then what you want?
R/J- Well, all he has to do is keep them even.
R/C - Let them go down even...
This is as straightforward as that is it?
R/C- Yes that’s all it is.
R/J- Yes. As long as he keeps them even as they go down. It’s no good putting two bales in and having four that’s never been touched, because that isn't a mixing, he's only mixed two bales. 'Cause they are not all alike.
No I appreciate that. So to do it really properly you take as much off each bale as the others.
R/C – Correct. The same amount, yes.
R/J - As possible.
And so to feed one lot through that…
R/J- Yes through one machine.
So you really take a fifth of each, or sixth if you’ve got six bales to feed through, you should be mixing it every time you put a, sort of a lattice full through.
R/J- Yes. That's right.
R/C - It is one .. there is one good thing about this way, that it's not the end of the blend.
No.
R/C – It’s just the start of it. There is a ...
R/J- It's the beginning.
R/C- There’s a good opportunity later on where it shows the improvement of it, of the blend.
(850)
Yes. Do you call these blending machines?
R/J- Yes.
R/C- Yes.
Each blending machine is then mixed with the next one because you've got a feed at the end haven't you where all four mix into…
R/J – Yes, they all four meet and goes into a press.
R/C - All these are individually fed and they have an individual stack of bales to each machine.
But at the front end it's all mixed together isn’t it?
R/J- It's all mixed on a long lattice at the front ...
Yes which we, you'll see later on I think, yes.
R/J- We’ll come later on.
8.13.
R/J- Well that just shows you the same one on it’s own
R/C - That shows you the same principle but just behind one.
Is there six bales there?
R/J - There is eight bales there.
Eight. It's not very good looking, it's upside down.
R/J – Yes. There is eight bales.
Yes there is, I can see that now.
R/J- Now there's a, aye but that eight bales are between two blending machines. It's another one here, so there’d be them then eight or twelve bales'll be mixing in them two machines would they?
R/C- Possibly they'll be put down for two, between two machines.
R/J- Yes. They are here. And then they have so many for this machine and so many for that machine and they are all different sorts. You get Russian, you get Japanese and …
R/C - Now that's an important thing what George just said. This cotton comes from all over the world, it’s not just from English mills, and it's all waste material ...
R/J - Not all American. It's all been used before.
R/C – Yes, it has been processed.
R/J - It's all been used before hasn’t it.
R/C – It’s what you might call a sub-standard cotton but it's ideal for the purpose what they wanted it for.
Do you think there in an equivalent of this sort of mill in other countries? Or is Britain the only place where they've got a cotton waste industry?
(40 min)
R/C - No they all have them, they've all had a waste industry but not on the same scale as there’s been in Lancashire.
Right yes.
R/J – 8.14. I say there it is an example, there. He’s nearly finished these bales and yet he's all this yet.
R/C - You see there are some times when you say “There is only a bit left” Well it might have been penny pinching, telling them only to use half.
(900)
R/J- Yes they might be the best bales.
R/C – Yes, see, and save half for the next mixing.
Yes I am with you. So these…
R/C - A lot of that done.
.. so these low ones might be the best.
RC- Yes. See they wouldn't mind if you put two lots of cheap uns in.
No. Something I noticed when I was looking through them is that a lot of the window cills don’t have a cill, it’s a slope at the bottom.
R/C – That’s to stop people putting stuff on them, cluttering them up.
For what reason?
R/C - So that, the window cills in a cotton mill of our type of mill have always been places for people to shove something on, so they've decided to slope them so they’d always be clear. I've never had anything there, you couldn't hang anything there, or put anything on there.
And is that to always make sure that you've got maximum light coming in?
R/C - A maximum light, and it gives it a better appearance when it's all cleaned up.
That's always been a fairly important aspect of the cotton industry hasn’t it, the place looking clean?
R/J- Looking clean at week end.
Yes because in the very early days when they were still working on Sundays .. here I'm going back into the eighteen hundreds ... There was quite a lot of time given for cleaning up, wasn't there?
R/C - That's correct
In fact I think Sunday was the day they had to work say, four hours or just the morning or something, on cleaning up.
R/C - Correct.
Now, what's the chap doing here on 8.14?
R/J- That looks like he is just cleaning the tops off; looks like he’s just knocking the dust off the pipes.
Is that a long pole with some sort of sacking on?
R/J – Exactly. That’s what we call a dasher.
A dasher.
R/J- Yes.
R/C - They call them dashers.
R/J - Don't we? I wonder why they call them dashers.
R/C - Dash the waste off they call them.
R/J - Keeps swinging about like that and knock all the dust down so he'll have a mask on. Yes, he'll have a mask on. It looks like now they're stopped now and he’s cleaning.
Oh I see. And is that, they call it in the spinning room as well, because they go down the alleys like that?
R/C - They dash off.
R/J- Yes. That's what they call dash off isn’t it. With a piece of rag.
Dash off. Some lovely expressions aren't there?
R/J- Here we see again the Jumbo.
R/C- On number 9.
Just before we go on to number 9, did the lights always have to be on? Or do you have times when they don't need to be on?
R/C- We have times, but it’s got to be very light. Like today we’d have them on. We'd have to put them on today; although the windows are there it doesn't catch it so well. There is no windows at this side and no windows at that side. Windows at the top and here.
Yes. We are on number 9 then now.
R/C- I think the reason why on these, all these, 8.14 all those, that they are so dark, because the plants were put in existing rooms whereas today the rooms are made for the plant.
R/J - Aye they are. It's an old building.
R/C- Probably it was a store room or even a spinning room.
Good point. Yes.
(950)
R/J- You see, in this room, all that were in that room were a scutcher that ran coloured laps and the Jumbo were the other way round. That Jumbo were the other way around. We used to put the stack here, but it only had that machine, none of theme were in then.
That was before it was electrified was it?
R/J- Yes that were when it were running on the engine and then these came along.
So these blending machines haven't always been needed or used in the blending process?
R/J- No. They had one of them machines in the top room. 'Cause each mill made their own mixing, didn't they? They had their own devils.(
45 min)
R/C- Why they put these blending machines in, you’ve just said. They had all these different spinning mills, they had three and they all did their own processing, their own blending. So it’d come to such a time where they decided it were more efficient and cheaper to blend at one mill.
R/J - That's right.
R/C- And put the proper blending machines in. So they’d all have the came blend 'cause they were selling the same yarn was going back to the pair of mills to weave. So before, when they was blending differently, there’d be a difference in shade. And that took control of these other people at the other mills. Where they could have made the mixing better for spinning but the shade would have been different. So they'd worked all this for all this, for all the ranging and everything, for the finished product, that’s why they did it.
R/J- Well, Higher Mill had a Jumbo, they all had their own devils, Holme Spring had a Jumbo and three rows of devils and we had three rows of devils and a Jumbo which we still have ...
R/C- They all had, every little mill had…
R/J- But then they all got these come in and did away with a deviller at each mill and a bloke that mixes it for each mill. Didn’t they? Did away with them two jobs.
R/C- They saved a lot of space in these other mills where they used to have to store their own materials. See when they did this blending system, for the first time they had proper control over it.
R/J – Yes, it were a good idea at the time because the wagons had to go round, deliver at Holme Spring, deliver at Higher Mill, deliver here…
R/C- It were a very good move that
R/J- Very good move.
R/C - Without any doubt.
R/J- It’s really not a bad set up, but for the dust, I should think we'll see the lattice on number…
Have you finished with number 9?
R/J - Done number 9 have we? Yes.
R/C- I think so.
R/J- Number 9’s similar to 8.14.
Yes, OK. Number 10.
(1000)
R/J- Number 10.
Now that does look clean and tidy.
R/J- Ah well, you must come round on a Friday when they have all been cleaned up. You can’t see a bit of dust, they were good cleaners them two lads and they had plenty of time for it. That shows the end of the room where it looks grey.
They are not running now those machines are they? They haven’t been running for a while, have they?
R/J- Brian’s just running them this afternoon, just getting a few off, he’s took my job.
And that's all my fault, is it? Because I’m here?
R/J- Yes.
R/C- He likes it.
Dear dear, I am in bother today aren’t I? Yes. So he's got all the bales run down here, on number 10 isn’t it.
R/J- Now that’s OK you see. You can see they’re all even on here.
All even yes.
R/J- Now that, he’s mixed them all very well on that machine.
So he can have a Brownie point.
R/J- Yes.
R/C- It is the sort of job where whoever's employed on that should always wear a mask by rights.
Yes, there's no weight to this stuff is there? I mean this for the Jumbo, it’s heavier stuff isn’t it?
R/J- Yes it is.
R/C- There is no working danger anyhow on these hoppers because all you're doing is feed them and the dust control is very efficient.
R/J- It's not heavy work although they shift a lot of weight through in a day.
R/C- But they have, they were a very efficient means and the hoppers are very good.
Picture 10.01
R/J – Now there you come to the lattice that all these machines feed on to.
R/C - Showing the oiling process.
R/J - Showing the oil.
Now then tell me about that, because that’s important isn't it?
R/J- It’s very important. The more oil you can get on without absolutely saturating it, the better.
SCG/28 June 2003
8,162 words.