Trying to find my grandfather John Willie Crabtree

[Pendlewitch]

Hi all

I am new to this site and would like to find out some information about my granddad, John Willie Crabtree who was married to my grandma Frances Ellen Dinsdale. John Willie was born in 1902 and died in 1947. Frances Ellen was born in 1899 and died in 1985. She lived at 257 Colne Road Sough, Earby. I believe she was born at a farm called Tunstead, in Kelbrook? John Willie had two sons John Dinsdale Crabtree (my father) and Richard Francis Crabtree.

Any information about my granddad would be gratefully received as would any pictures, as I have never seen a picture of him. I know he committed suicide in 1947 and I know he is buried in the church yard in Kelbrook and that is about all.

Regards Pendlewitch

[Wendyf]

Hello, and welcome to the site. We have quite a lot of info on here about the Dinsdale family at Tunstead. Have you done a search of the site? I will see what I can discover about John Willie Crabtree.

[PanBiker]

Hello and welcome, I have moved your thread into the Genealogy category /Looking for Someone. It will get more Google hits in here.

[Wendyf]

Have a look at thisTOPIC Pendlewitch, it is mostly about the Dinsdale family but there is mention of your Grandma. Cloghopper has recently come back to the site so he may see your post.

[Stanley]

PW, you are in the right place! Good luck with it....

[Pendlewitch]

To those who have replied so far, thank you. I can't see a tool to thank you, is there one?
Regards Pendlewitch

[Wendyf]

There isn't a thank you button, but a smiley face does just as well!

I've been having a look on Ancestry and found a few facts about John Willie Crabtree.

The 1911 census shows him aged 9 living with his parents Richard & Edith on Waterloo Road Kelbrook, He has 2 brothers. Ernest 11 and Wilson 3

In the 1930 Electoral Register he is with Richard, Edith & Wilson at 19 Colne Road, Kelbrook. The date is confusing as the register was probably taken the year before....John Willie married Frances in 1929.
The Electoral Registers dated between 1934 and 1945 show John Willie and Frances at Cowgill Farm, Gisburn which is where he was living when he died.
This is the probate for John Willie Crabtree.

[Pendlewitch]

Wow Wendyf, you have found more in 12 hours, than I have managed in thirty years. Thank you so much. I really hope to continue to learn about my granddad and that it answers a lot of unanswered questions for me.

[Gloria]

He is at Cowgill Farm with his family in 1939 Register.

[Pendlewitch]

Thanks Gloria. He died in 1945 and I am keen to know anything about what happened with regards to that.

[Wendyf]

I have tried searching the British Newspaper index but nothing comes up. I'll have another go! Perhaps Cloghopper may know something as Frances was his aunt. It might be worth sending him a pm or an email.

[Wendyf]

I've sent a PM to your Great Uncle (or is it second cousin once removed??) Cloggy.
There is an auction sale of the Cowgill Farm stock June 1947 in the papers.
From the Barlick & Earby Times 30th May 1947

[Wendyf]

There is a monumental inscription recorded for him in Kelbrook Churchyard.

Plot C57

Peace
In Loving Memory of
JOHN WILLIE CRABTREE
of Cowgill Farm, Sawley
died May 1st 1947
aged 45 years
Also CELIA ELIZABETH
daughter of
RICHARD and ELIZABETH CRABTREE
died March 29th 1922
in her 3rd year

[Pendlewitch]

Great stuff, thank you once again. It so good to finally find out things that have been buried for so long.

[Pendlewitch]

I know some of the details you are telling me Wendyf. I found out where he was buried three years ago and saw that he was with his little sister who I knew nothing about. It appears that following his suicide in May 1947, all mention of him was banned within the family. I would like to find out why this was, maybe it brought shame on the family? why he committed suicide, where and who found him, as well as obituaries, death certificates, write ups in the local press etc. I cant find answers to any of these things. The probate information and the auction information was interesting. I will keep searching. Most of all I would like to see a picture of him as he was removed from all family photos after his death.

[PanBiker]

The two local newspapers available at the time, Barnoldswick and Earby Times and the Craven Herald are available on Microfiche at Barnoldswick Library. B&E times copies are easily readable but the Craven Herald fiches are a bit more problematic. They hold some original copies upstairs though so you may be able to find further reports in either local publication. I know from my own research reading all copies from 1939 to 45 that above average suicide cases were reported during the war years in the local area. I did note quite a few from the farming community. I only read up to the end of 1945 as I was specifically looking for service personnel deaths.

The fiches are in the cabinets behind the microfiche reader, ask for assistance at the desk if you need help.

[Pendlewitch]

Thank you for this information Ian. Unfortunately I live in Leicester so it's not easy for me to access the information from the library. If I am ever up that way, I now know where to look though. Have you any idea why there were more than average suicides in the farming community at that time? Would it have been perhaps down to financial reasons. I think cloggy and Stever may be able to help if they come back on the site. I have emailed both of them. Hopefully I will hear back from one or both of them.

[Wendyf]

Pleased to have been able to help. The Barnoldswick & Earby Times for that period are now available on line Ian. I have looked through the May 9th copy but found nothing....there mIght be reports of an inquest in later editions so I will keep looking.

[PanBiker]

No idea, lots of folk were under a lot of pressure. Reports during the war years are often quite brief and to the point. I noticed the news reports and then may pick upon a further report from the coroners office in a later edition. Reporting in the papers tended to concentrate on the positives, mill stirs, fund raising drives, dances and the cinema, stuff like that. Anything in the shadow factories (we had quite a few) never mentioned. Missing, injured or KIA reports were always reported but the tone tried to be predominantly up beat. The papers would be back to more normal content by 1947. I'll see if I can pop in and have a look for you, we have the dates and locations so it should not take long.

Just seen Wendy's post so I will hang back and see what she can find in the online copies.

[Wendyf]

Which coroner's court would Sawley have come under.....was it Yorkshire or Lancashire in 1947?

[Pendlewitch]

Bless you both, thank you so much.

[Pendlewitch]

My dad tells me he's a Yorkshire man Wendy, so maybe it came under Yorkshire in 1947. My dad would have been around 10 then. I can't be sure though.

[Wendyf]

So possibly Skipton Coroner's Court.... In that case the Craven Herald might be a better source of information. I'll ask a friend of mine to have a look in Skipton Library, she enjoys looking at old newspapers!

[PanBiker]

Definitely in Yorkshire, West Riding. Barnoldswick and Earby were moved for administration purposes into Lancashire by the Boundary Commission changes in 1974. Legally we are still in Yorkshire.

Was Cow Gill Farm on the Yorkshire or Lancashire side of the border which ran fairly close to Sawley. If Lancashire, the court could be at Clitheroe.

[PanBiker]

Wendy and I have a habit of posting at the same time.