SHED MATTERS 2

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Stanley
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley » 04 Jun 2018, 05:26

Sorry lads for the hiatus. Yesterday it was cooking and housework, today it's a visit to the Doc to find out if I am going to live.....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley » 05 Jun 2018, 09:29

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Next job in Mrs Harrison will be turning steel so I started by harvesting the clean non ferocious chips and putting them in the bronze scrap bin.

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Here's the problem I created for myself. I modified the original bolts securing the chuck back because there wasn't room for the 1/2" BSF nuts. I would have done a lot better if I'd done what I am doing this morning. The basic problem is that in the days when this chuck was made lathe spindles were much smaller. I've spent an arm and a leg on the socket head bots, would you believe £7 each?

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The holes in the chuck back were a bit tight and they don't want to be. I spent about 20 minutes trying to find a drill or reamer that was exactly right and in the end I came to my senses! This round file did the job.

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That's better but you can see the problem now.... There isn't enough clearance for the head which is going to be on this side.

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I needed an end mill that was about 11/16" and found this one in the cutters I forgot to sharpen when I was having the Clarkson fest. So into the T&C grinder and I sharpened it at 5 degrees with no clearance rake. Nowadays when I use Mrs Clarkson I always think about Keith Rucker saying on Youtube that sharpening cutters was out of date and nobody did it. No in this shed Keith!

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Here's the setup. I lined it up by eye and got going. The cutter cut beautifully.

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Here's the first one..... Looks OK. I did the other two.....

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Knocking off time. The bolts all fit and seat properly with enough play to enable me to adjust them if necessary. Now I need to make the threaded inserts to fit in the counter-bores on the face of the chuck.
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley » 06 Jun 2018, 09:42

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First thing to do was a fag packet drawing of the inserts, some careful measuring because I want them to be a good fit in the counterbores and I am toying with a drop of Loctite to seal them in. Then check the threads on the bolts, other people make mistakes as well! I found the tapping drill, a starter tap and a bottoming tap to finish even though the threads go all the way through.

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Then into the scrap ends treasure chest for a piece of stock, turn it down to 0.780" making sure I had enough length for three inserts.

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Bore it to full depth 11.5MM which is the tapping drill for 1/2" UNF, chamfer the end and tap it an inch deep using both taps then a chamfer on the back end, part it off and repeat.

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At closing time I had two done and they are a good fit. They need the ends cleaning up yet but I'll sort that when I have all three done. I started on the last one but then walked away from it, other things to do......
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley » 07 Jun 2018, 09:37

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First job was to finish the last bolt and actually install them. No problem about fit, the nuts are perfect, but of course they are a bit too long. I decided to Loctite the nuts into the counter-bores.....Then I fitted them but didn't over-tighten them. Next was a bit of handball, cut the ends of the bolts off.

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I hit a problem when I went to give the bolts a good nip up once the chuck was installed. Due to the pitch circle being so small I couldn't get an Allen key in so I had to cut a short piece off an old 3/8" key and use it like a socket with a spanner.

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Then I turned the ends down. This is where high speed steel beats ceramic tips hands down. Interrupted cuts don't bother HSS at all if you use your head.

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Knocking off time. Now to fit the jaws and see how much run out I have. I can tell you just from the way the body looks when it's running that I haven't made it any worse! Nice.....
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley » 08 Jun 2018, 09:50

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I decided not to plunge straight into checking the run out again. These jaws are far too tight in their ways. As I said before, even though this chuck is 100 years old it has seen very little use but the jaws are far tighter than they would be when the fitters let it go out of the factory. I've stripped it completely and I know it is OK internally and I have checked the action of the scroll with no jaws in and it's perfectly free so the fault is in the jaws. I think that what has happened is movement of the casting over the years making it a different shape than when the jaws were fitted.
I tried the jaws individually in their ways over the full range, they were all too tight but no. 1 was the worst, the other two are slightly better but still too tight.

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Here we are at closing time. I can hone the outside guide of the chuck, the internal one will be more difficult. I shall work on them first and then address the jaws themselves. I won't need to take much out, all I want to do is ease them. It will be fiddly and slow but I think I can get them to fit properly. I have plenty of time and I want to be satisfied when I finish.
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by plaques » 08 Jun 2018, 11:23

Have you tried a bit of lapping paste to see where the high spots are?

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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley » 09 Jun 2018, 02:33

Yes, I've thought about that and it could happen. I am going to go cheap and cheerful first and hone the outside guides on the chuck and see what happens...... If I don't get a result I shall strip it down again so that I can slide the jaws in the guides. Then I can use marking blue and do the job properly.
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley » 09 Jun 2018, 09:14

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P got me thinking this morning. If there is one lesson I have learned in a long experience with rectifying faults with machinery it is that the longest way round is often the shortest in the end. You can have a flash of inspiration at times and go straight to the fault but on the whole you save time by starting from basics. I decided that this was the way to go so I took the chuck off Mrs Harrison and started to strip it down.....

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It says a lot for how closely the chuck is fitted that you need a knife edge to start to open the joint followed up by sharp screwdrivers used as wedges.

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Shortly afterwards it was taken from together as my kids used to say.

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The scroll was free but a shade rough and almost tight so I addressed that first. I polished all the edges internal and external with the finest abrasive paper I have and spent about twenty minutes on it. It's still a tight fit but I have eased it a touch.

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Leaving no stone unturned I ran the tap through the inserts in the face just to make sure!

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I started on the guide-ways in the body and got my new diamond files out. They were OK but then I remembered I had some Norton inserts that were originally made for loading honing bars for doing cylinders. They were just the thing!

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I moved to the jaws and the first thing I tried was a flat oilstone to clean the sides but this was not cutting the hardened steel quickly enough.

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I went back to the body and used the Norton sticks on the guides.

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I found that I had some that were a perfect fit for the guides on the jaws. By the way, all this work is being done on the Number 1 jaw, I'm not touching the others. I was making progress but gradually coming to the conclusion that it's the side fit where my trouble is. I threw caution to the winds and polished the sides with a flapper wheel in the angle grinder.

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Here's where I am at at closing time. The number 1 jaw is a perfect easy sliding fit in the guides, only three to go. However the others aren't as bad as this one was and I know now that the way to go is to hone the guides in the body and jaw with the Norton sticks and then polish the sides with the flapper wheel. With a bit of luck that will do the trick. This is definitely progress!
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley » 09 Jun 2018, 09:39

By the way..... Those Norton sticks have been sat in a box on the shelf for over 30 years and I have never used them for anything. This morning was what they have been waiting for all those years. Never pass up the chance for picking up something like that, whatever it is it will come into its own eventually!
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley » 10 Jun 2018, 08:07

I really really wanted to get in the shed to see if I have it right but as usual housework, washing, cooking and numerous other small outstanding tasks have kept me out. Not a lot of point going in this late so I shall be AWOL today! Before you start tutting.... who cleans your house and does the cooking? I rest my case!
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley » 11 Jun 2018, 09:37

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It's been a good morning.... It took two hours to get here with all three jaws a snug but easy sliding fit in the guides in the body. I thought the two I had to do this morning would be easier and quicker because they were not as tight as number one. I was wrong, It took just as long because I had to go through exactly the same stages, trying to identify where the tight spots were and reducing them carefully a few microns at a time with my Norton abrasive sticks and the flapper wheel on the angle grinder. Take a little bit off and see if you have an improvement. I had to ease all the surfaces, it was almost as though the chuck body and the jaws have swollen over the years, no doubt that all the surfaces have moved a bit probably due to stresses coming out. This applied to the jaws as well. I think that the explanation is that they were closely fitted in the first place at the factory and normally wear with use will prevent any distortion causing tightness. The fact that the chuck has never been used enough to do this shows how close to brand new it is even though it's about 100 years old. I didn't take the last one down to being perfectly free because it was warm from the flapper wheel and the fit is so close that I reckoned it would ease as it cooled down. I was right, it did.

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Next I built the body up again. I smeared a bit of Copaslip on the bearing faces of the scroll wheel. If you remember I had polished these surfaces. Copaslip is really a high temperature lubricant but the small amount of copper on the surfaces will work just as well at low temperatures. Then plenty of way oil and a build up. I tried the scroll wheel in the body first and it fits nicely, no play but you could rotate it with your fingers. All the screws and bolts fitted but not dead tight, that can come later. I put the chuck on the nose of the lathe and installed the jaws and they are a snug but easy fit. The chuck key can be turned easily.

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Then I gave the chuck a spin dry on my highest speed for about five minutes to let it throw out most of the excess oil. I haven't got it all out but it's a lot better than it would have been.
It was knocking off time, tomorrow I shall have a good clean up, far too much grinding dust and abrasive filled oil about! Then we'll have a look at the run out........
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley » 12 Jun 2018, 07:44

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I was in the shed early at 06:30 and was itching to see if all the work has improved the accuracy of the big 3 jaw but the shed is filthy! Apart from Mrs Harrison, everything on the bench has a fine coat of abrasive dust. Ideally of course any form of grinding should be in a different place that where you do your fitting but when your shed is as cramped as mine you can't avoid it. So the first job was to clean the bench and all the small tools that live there.

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All the tools cleaned and the grinding dust chased off the bench, the big surface plate oiled up, a clean tablecloth installed and everything brought into some sort of order.

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Then clean Mrs Harrison, have a general chip chase of both mills and their surroundings and then finish of by vacuuming the carpet! Things are looking a lot better. At last I could put the test bar in and see where I was. I'd left the main bolts only just snug and so I was able to bump the chuck body with my lead bumper and improve the initial fit. I got it to just a thou of run out 2.5" outboard of the chuck. That's as good as it would have been when it came out of the factory, always remember that no self-centring chuck is accurate! The bottom line is that I haven't been wasting my time!

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I snugged the body bolts using the 3/8" slug I cut the other day, took the chuck off and gave the bolts a final tightening on the bench. Then I finished off by nipping all the peripheral screws that hold the two halves of the body together and which of course have been slightly slackened by the tightening of the main bolts. Then into the cupboard under the lathe. It's full now but you can never have too many chucks!

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Last thing was to install the most accurate chuck I have, the 4 jaw independent which I transferred from Johnny's big lathe to Mrs Harrison. I use 3 jaw chucks to ease some jobs but when you need absolute accuracy there's only one way to go! So I'm out of the shed half an hour early but that doesn't bother me, I've done a good job this morning.
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley » 13 Jun 2018, 05:33

A clean shed and a straight edge. Can you guess what comes next? That's right, a bit of writing as I have two good topics fizzing inside my head. At the same time I will be considering where to go next.
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley » 14 Jun 2018, 08:26

I'm still writing articles! However I did one little job, I ditched the electric bell on the back door so China will be pleased to hear that the crooked bell push is history!
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by chinatyke » 14 Jun 2018, 12:10

Stanley wrote:
14 Jun 2018, 08:26
I'm still writing articles! However I did one little job, I ditched the electric bell on the back door so China will be pleased to hear that the crooked bell push is history!
Wouldn't it have been easier to straighten it?

I thought about it yesterday as I was installing my brand new wireless doorbell which arrived from somewhere near Shanghai. One bell push and two remote ringer units, all for £7 delivered to the door. Brilliant.

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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by Stanley » 15 Jun 2018, 02:46

No, it was on one of those tailored super sticky pads and was getting near its sell by date anyway. I want people to use the door knocker!
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Re: SHED MATTERS 2

Post by PanBiker » 23 Aug 2018, 12:52

This thread is getting quite large with the number of images in the thread. I have locked this thread from further input. Shed Matters are now continued in a new topic here:

Shed Matters 3
Ian

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