Pocket Watches.

hartley353

Pocket watches.

Post by hartley353 » 21 Aug 2013, 10:23

The postman delivered a new internal crystal for my Half Hunter. The glass was fitted last evening using modern cements and now she is good for another 110 years. The level of decoration on the internal movement plates is breathtaking. Mass produced but still individual. A gentleman in the US is sourcing me a period dog clip for the chain then it is done.
DSC_2006_1393.JPG[attachment=0]DSC_2010_1397.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

hartley353

Pocket Watches

Post by hartley353 » 21 Sep 2013, 12:52

Newly restored by myself a H Samuel silver pocket watch. When Harriet Samuel took over her fathers watch business she moved it in 1862 to market st Manchester from its base in Liverpool. At the new site she operated a mail order business, their first retail shop was opened in Preston in 1890. The land mark was a stock market launch in 1948, the business is still in exsistence today. This watch was produced in 1919 a bought in Swiss movement with their own patents, housed in a case of just over an ounce of 925 silver, The watch lying static is accurate to two minutes per day at present. Sadly because of the high metal prices over the last five years many fine watches have been sold for scrap. Reputable dealers have salvaged the movements from watches deserving of a second chance enabling people like me to find parts easily for restoration projects But sadly the cases have gone. This watch is wound by a modern key, originals are now very rare, should you see an original at car boots there are many buyers waiting.
DSC_2090_1564.JPG
DSC_2091_1565.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 9542
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: Pocket Watches

Post by Tizer » 22 Sep 2013, 10:01

A lovely watch. What does the `Visible palette' mean written on the back of the watch?

hartley353

Re: Pocket Watches

Post by hartley353 » 22 Sep 2013, 12:18

The pallate is a lever controlled by the balance, that halts and releases the drive train controlling the speed of the watch. On each end of the pallate is an oblong jewel at the point of wear, On many watches you would only see this if looking in between the movement plates. And of course you would have to remove the movement from the case to do this. On this watch you would have to open the back,open the inner case, then remove the metal dust cover from the movement. at this point you would be able to see the pallate doing its job, because of the skeletal plate. Basically just one upmanship the watch maker showing his craft. My next project is another Manchester watch maker George Aaronson a beautiful 50mm movement in a 4oz silver case. When I obtained it the balance swung perfectly but the pallate never moved it could be an easy fix, or a lot of work with very fine files to make a new part. This movement is also a one off and will require a lot of study and notes before dismantling, if I can work out how they assembled it then I have a chance.

hartley353

Re: Pocket Watches

Post by hartley353 » 23 Sep 2013, 08:50

Addendum. I believe the word pallate is a misspelling of the french word palatte, the meaning of which was a flat piece of wood to mix artists paints the watch part resembles such in miniature.

User avatar
Tripps
Senior Member
Posts: 2909
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 14:56

Re: Pocket Watches

Post by Tripps » 23 Sep 2013, 09:22

I had a interest in 19C silver pocket watches a while ago, and was 'watching' an example on ebay. Interested because the jeweler was from Barnoldswick. (Can't remember his name now). I was going to bid a fair amount but the auction was suddenly closed, and it came back at a 'buy it now' price which was about double what the auction was looking likely to achieve. The seller was in Tel Aviv as I recall. I was now out of my depth regarding the value, and lost interest.
Shame you weren't on the site then H - I'm sure you would have offered some guidance. Maybe I should look again. :smile:
Born to be mild. . .

hartley353

Re: Pocket Watches

Post by hartley353 » 23 Sep 2013, 14:08

I've bought about seven on e/bay, all at good prices. Yesterday I bought another two, one for just over £4, and the other for £16.00, both in the spares or repair section. Out of the original seven only one remains silent Due to a broken main spring. Many springs are still available but this one eludes me. It would be possible to fit a less strong spring but the time keeping would be affected. Presently there is a trend called steam punk so even my broken watches or their parts can be recycled as Jewelry. On saturday I noted there was a musical pocket watch movement for sale, in their cases they are very expensive watches, but unless you have a case to hand there. is little chance of finding one.

hartley353

Re: Pocket Watches

Post by hartley353 » 23 Sep 2013, 15:51

hartley353 wrote:I've bought about seven on e/bay, all at good prices. Yesterday I bought another two, one for just over £4, and the other for £16.00, both in the spares or repair section. Out of the original seven only one remains silent Due to a broken main spring. Many springs are still available but this one eludes me. It would be possible to fit a less strong spring but the time keeping would be affected. Presently there is a trend called steam punk so even my broken watches or their parts can be recycled as Jewelry. On saturday I noted there was a musical pocket watch movement for sale, in their cases they are very expensive watches, but unless you have a case to hand there. is little chance of finding one.
I checked on e/bay the movement is now climbing towards £300.00 and there is a pristine model for sale for £8,000 plus

hartley353

Re: Pocket Watches

Post by hartley353 » 25 Sep 2013, 10:06

A check in the horology archives revealed a lack of imformation on Barlick watch or clock makers. Only one listed a Thomas Heap on Church St early 1900's, Heap is a common name in this area, there was another John Heap in Burnley involved in watches. Very few were manufacturers from start to finish and would be built from bought in parts. Even in those days there were rip off merchants. When the English watch company bought a Swiss manufacturer in Buren, there was one manufacturer censured for purveying English watches which were built in Buren when the only English part was the case and the watch plates. In my collection I have one Ladies watch which is clearly marked on the face with made at Buren. Manufacturers must have listened and learnt.
DSC_2094_1568.JPG
DSC_2095_1569.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Tripps
Senior Member
Posts: 2909
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 14:56

Re: Pocket Watches

Post by Tripps » 25 Sep 2013, 11:49

Thanks for taking an interest H. I don't think the name was Heap. I think I would remember the name if I saw it again. It was engraved on the 'works' as well as being on the dial. It was a very handsome watch. I've looked for the Israeli dealer, but can't find him on ebay. He did very good adverts with enormous detail, and lots of photos. You've got me going now - I'll be looking on ebay again now. :smile:
Born to be mild. . .

hartley353

Re: Pocket Watches

Post by hartley353 » 25 Sep 2013, 17:47

Theres plenty to look at they seem to be having a revival, maybe Stanley and I are coming back into fashion as waistcoat wearers. What are not so common are the chains a decent silver albert seems to attract around £125.00 these days Struck lucky recently when I bought a lapel chain from a french dealer he advertised it as gold plate but turned out to be 18 carat, french minimum standard if you wish to call it gold. But it was incredibly dirty, and the lapel clip was plated as was the dog clip, so had probably been replaced.

hartley353

Re: Pocket Watches

Post by hartley353 » 26 Sep 2013, 18:05

Both watches I bought on the internet arrived this week, both are now up and running requiring only three hours each. When they arrive they are as black as the fire back and any lubrication has turned to jam 90% of the work is cleaning. The £4.00 one turned out to have a hand painted dial with gold detailing under the muck neither has a name on it, but both carry the swiss Grouse silver marks meaning they are above 800 parts in a thousand silver, now the search for a name begins. Small clues like the balance adjustments being marked advance and retard narrow the search.

hartley353

Pocket Watches.

Post by hartley353 » 06 Oct 2013, 11:55

George Aaronson of Manchester. This pocket watch now ticking and regulation to be observed over next couple of weeks and fine tuned. The fingers require a descision should I clean and straighten and risk the gold finish, or just blue them. It must have been a mighty man who carried this watch, 4oz of stirling silver in the case, and a 50mm movement, Watch presently weighs 5.5 oz and I have yet to refit inner case door, another 1/2oz. With an average Albert chain of 2 1/2oz quite a pocket full.
Last watch for a while my attentions must turn to an antique microscope, and a three draw English telescope. Traditionalists say they must stay in as found condition, but on low value items I like to see the brass gleam again under a coat of modern lacquer.
DSC_2118.JPG
DSC_2115.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

hartley353

Re: Pocket Watches.

Post by hartley353 » 30 Oct 2013, 11:21

My intention was to not buy any more watches for a while, but when I spotted this on ebay I couldn't resist. A ladies fob watch by Dimier Freres & Cie, The Swiss company also had premises in Croydon and Chester. This watch carries Swiss silver marks that date it to pre 1933 when the marks changed. When it arrived it was as black as the fire back, but was ticking always a good sign. After cleaning this jewel appeared a silver face with gold numerals and decoration, and a perfect case with no dings, and near invisible closure lines. The bidding took me £15.00 over my self imposed limit but I'm glad I broke my rules this time.
DSC_0043.JPG
DSC_0046.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

hartley353

Re: Pocket Watches.

Post by hartley353 » 29 Jan 2014, 12:09

During my recent time in Scotland I took the time to browse the local antique and bric a brac shops, and returned home with a collection of objects for restoration. Amongst which was an old Hunter pocket watch with a broken movement. When I removed the movement the case looked in poor condition but an application of MAAS Polish brought back the lustre of gold. The rear door wouldn't close due to some one using a penknife to open it but a little work with a small file soon solved it. Luckily I had a J.W.Benson hunter movement looking for a new home, and it fit perfectly. A new crystal completed the job, now it is a watch to be proud of.
DSC_0002.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

hartley353

Re: Pocket Watches.

Post by hartley353 » 29 Jan 2014, 17:51

Another Pocket watch to add to my collection of Manchester watch makers. This one from Arnold & Lewis St Ann Square. I cannot precisely date this watch, but they traded between 1871 and 1905. The watch is a Chronometer in a silver case with a 50mm movement, and still keeps excellent time.
DSC_0004.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by hartley353 on 30 Jan 2014, 10:18, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
LizG
Avid User
Posts: 965
Joined: 22 Mar 2012, 05:36
Location: Melbourne Australia

Re: Pocket Watches.

Post by LizG » 30 Jan 2014, 07:22

These are beautiful. Each time you post a new message I go and get out my Grandfathers pocket watch and just remind myself that I have it. Nothing special other than it was handed from him to my Dad and now to me. I think Dad 'put it together' for him before he got married. I should ask before it's too late.
Liz

hartley353

Re: Pocket Watches.

Post by hartley353 » 30 Jan 2014, 10:02

LizG wrote:These are beautiful. Each time you post a new message I go and get out my Grandfathers pocket watch and just remind myself that I have it. Nothing special other than it was handed from him to my Dad and now to me. I think Dad 'put it together' for him before he got married. I should ask before it's too late.
Glad you enjoy them Liz, I believe my love of ticking things is genetic my father, grandfather, and great grandfather were watch lovers and I have time pieces owned by them all. Normally I wear just a wrist watch but even that is special and called a grand complication piece, but for special occasions I like to wear a pocket watch, the wearing of such usualy brings me into conversation with folks who are custodians of family watches. They are very tactile objects and cause my thoughts to wander to their previous owners, the conversations they were privy to, the occasions they saw,the times they were looked at because the bus was late, or it was near the end of a working day. The hunter watch contains a J W Benson movement, they held a royal warrant and many consider they would have become the English Rolex, had not a german bomb fallen on their premises in WW1. To stay in business they used Swiss movements built to their designs which this is one of.....Mike.

hartley353

Re: Pocket Watches.

Post by hartley353 » 30 Jan 2014, 11:02

Grandads Watch. He must have been doing well out of his inventions for the weaving Industry. 1904 John Russel of London Chronometer movement, housed in a solid gold case. The watch still keeps good time but could do with a clean and lubricate, I am reluctant to do this as it seems like washing away grandad as he was the last man to work on this watch. The watch is pin set which means you depress a small pin on the side to adjust the hands by turning the winder. the other control on the side allows you to stop the watch balance wheel and then start it which turns it into a precision timing device.
DSC_0002.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by hartley353 on 30 Jan 2014, 11:37, edited 2 times in total.

hartley353

Re: Pocket Watches.

Post by hartley353 » 30 Jan 2014, 11:20

Another recent find in Scotland. We had a lovely time visiting small shops, where due to a lack of tourists the owners had a chance to talk and were willing to show me small objects they did not have on view, some of which they had forgotten they had. This pretty little silver ladies fob watch 37mm in diameter began to tick as I gave it a rub on my hankey. A nice valentines present for my partner, may soften her into lending me her ultrasonic jewelry cleaner to clean the case and dial. The face has gold and what may be platinum adornment. The lady who received this when new must have been thrilled.
DSC_0004.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

hartley353

Re: Pocket Watches.

Post by hartley353 » 30 Jan 2014, 12:52

Great Grandfathers watch. My father would never swear as to it being his grandfathers but thought it was. This is a swiss solid silver cased hunter watch due to the continental metal markings of a grouse it can only be said it is certainly pre 1933. This watch is lever set. which means you have to slide a lever on the side of the crystal bezel to adjust the hands by turning the winder. The watch chain is sterling silver the sovereign case fob is something I have added later. the watch is still working well but has been cleaned and seviced and a new crystal fitted.
DSC_0003.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

hartley353

Re: Pocket Watches.

Post by hartley353 » 30 Jan 2014, 13:09

The last of the family heirlooms is my fathers watch. This is a Limit watch an Oldham Lancashire company formed by the Hirst brothers in 1912, and was still trading up to 1963. The Limit name is now owned by Time Products in Leicester. Dad kept this for best and it is still in very good condition, I remember it as having a gold chain but I think he sold it in the eighties when gold was at an all time high. As with most heirlooms I am only the custodian, and as such must trust that others will treasure them when I have gone....Mike.
DSC_0001.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

hartley353

Re: Pocket Watches.

Post by hartley353 » 01 Feb 2014, 14:39

Another little orphan rescued from a cardboard box in the back of a shop. This is a 46mm watch with a cylinder movement, the case is made from one of the many imitation silver alloys available at the time. The face has a couple of hairline cracks in its ceramic finish, normaly these will become invisible when treated with mild bleach, but I am reluctant to touch it due to the hand painting and gold foil detail. The hands are gold plated and ornate. Over all a very basic pocket watch which has risen above its brothers by fine detailing, to reward my cleaning and lubrication it sprang into life as I wound it with the key.
DSC_0001.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

hartley353

Re: Pocket Watches.

Post by hartley353 » 11 Mar 2014, 09:12

The line has been drawn my last purchases of pocket watches are esconsed in my curio chest. Three of the drawers are filled with watches, and it would mean the removal of other treasures to store any more, it is possible to buy an expansion set of three drawers to make the chest larger, but I shall not travel that route. The last three purchases were Hunter watches in gold filled cases. Gold filled means that a composite metal sheet, usualy brass is trapped between two sheets of gold, the manufacturer would mark them with a star, moon,or sun. These mark how long the case was expected to wear before the brass was exposed, the best of these cases was expected to give 20 years service. In my experience when the watch has come into my care at eighty years of age there are still many years of wear left in them. There are many articles around today which are described as gold plated, where the gold rubs off with the slightest finger pressure, it seems our forebearers were far wiser and better skilled.

User avatar
Whyperion
Senior Member
Posts: 1474
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 22:13
Location: Now in Burnley , After leaving Barnoldswick , except when I am in London

Re: Pocket Watches.

Post by Whyperion » 12 Mar 2014, 09:39

I'll have five that need a clean and re-furb if you want to do something to pass the time. It will be quite a few weeks before I'm in Burnley enough to get out with them though.
I'll try to photo them.

Post Reply

Return to “Antiques”