Matthias Dixon

[Stever]

Hi to all,

This topic is a repeat of one I started on the old website - I am trying to trace an ancestor - Matthias Dixon who lived in Kelbrook around 1911 to 1941.

From the begining then...

the 1911 Census shows Richard Thwaite Dixon, a widower living with his 2 children, Arthur and Mary at 3 Colne Road Kelbrook.

We know that Matthias Dixon, Richard's younger brother, left his home in Buckden to work for his sister Rosemary Dinsdale(nee Dixon) at Tunstead farm, Kelbrook.

We also know that Matthias died at 3 colne road kelbrook in 1941, we have his death certificate.

In 1949 Richard also died at 3 colne road, again we have his death certificate.

Both certificates are signed by registrars doctors etc and the address at which they died is clear in both instances.

However, we cannot find 3 Colne Road on maps or in local records as it appears the road changed in around 1929 and all the house numbers changed - it would seem 319 colne road today may have been 3 Colne road, but.... how come the registrars of the death certificates still used the 3 Colne road address in both 1941 and 1949 yet the house numbers changed in 1929????

I know there was a chapel on Colne road and houses but what was their numerical address?

My wife and I had a weekend in colne and visited kelbrook, wandering up and down the street, but to no avail, the only thing we did confirm was we found the grave of Rosemary Dinsdale and her Husband Francis Spence Dinsdale , in St Mary's grave yard, both late of Tunstead farm.

Is there any one out there with any suggestions where the house actually was or where we can find old maps
any help woud be appreciated
Regards
Stever

[Wendyf]

Welcome to the new site Steve. Broke out in a cold sweat seeing that topic name again! On Friday I will have a look at the maps we have at the Earby History Society. There may be a large scale one.

[Stanley]

Not sure how the following fits in or if there are any clues. It was posted on the site in 2010.

The original black text below is taken from OGFB web site. The alterations are to make it agree with the details in Frank Sellers (1880-1961) red note book.
JOHN SELLERS 1792. (BROTHER GEORGE 1794) 
Born London, died 1882. Orphaned at 5 and 7 years of age, were sent by some persons to an uncle who lived in Barrowford, Lancashire. One story says they tramped it all the way with all their worldly possessions in a small box, brass nailed and covered with cowhide measuring about 8" x 8" x 16". John was apprenticed to hand loom weaving. He married and moved to Barnoldswick where children came to the family circle until there were 11 and their parents All of them were engaged in the domestic duties in their home of producing cloth which their father took to Colne market. This journey from London by these small children no doubt was undertaken with a party of people or carriers who were coming to Colne, at that period, the principal marketing centre for all the cloth produced in the Craven district and right up to Wensleydale. Their father [the brother’s] was probably a cloth agent in London selling for the Colne merchants and they probably were stricken by small pox or some of the other virulent diseases of that period. One story says the boys spent some time in a Free Mason School or orphanage. Certainly both boys could read and write, which at that period was a rare thing unless they came from well to do parents. 

The other child, earned his living as a man by bookkeeping for the farmers around Barrowford and Blacko . Buying eggs and taking them in a wheelbarrow to Burnley market. He used to live on Blacko Moor, but always hid any money, as there were too many robbers about, only taking from his little store when transacting a deal. He emigrated to America at the age of 80 and opened a school for farmer’s children teaching them to read and write. 

EZRA SELLERS 1831 - 1896 
Was the 7th Son of John Sellers, spent his boyhood helping the family occupation of hand loom weaving. Married early, he and his wife started married life on 8 looms in Bracewell's Mill, Barnoldswick from there he moved to Howarth where he managed a small water powered weaving mill. Unfortunately, it was burned down one day whilst he was at Bradford market. He was out of work, so moved with his now young family to Colne where he struck up an acquaintance with W. White, the founder of the loom making firm of that name, who at that time was engaged making weft forks which were only then coming into general use. White’s business began in two cellars formerly used for hand loom weaving. Marshall Sellers, elder brother of Ezra, had, at that time, a small water power weaving shed situated on the border of Lancs. and Yorks. between Foulridge and Barnoldswick containing 24 looms making wincyettes. Marshall Sellers died from a chill and Ezra was asked to take over the business but had no money how could he off 25/- a week as a cloth looker but such faith in him had another[?] older brother, who had no children, that he lent him the money to take over the business. But after a time the waterman who looked after the reservoirs that supplied the mill with power died and Ezra Sellers could not get on with the successor who wanted too much ‘palm oil’. So he began to look out for other premises and in 1882 moved into a portion of Holme Mill, Nelson, where they increased their looms eventually to about 160. His eldest son John going to Manchester on market days seeking commission weaving. At this period Ezra 1884 would be 53 and John his eldest son 25 years old. John had 3 children at that time, Bertha, Frank and Hannah. It was on one of these business journeys that one day he called in T. W. Rice, cotton manufacturer’s office soliciting commission weaving and there came into contact with T. W. Rice Junior, then a young man of 32. His father owned Croft Mill, Chorley with about 400 looms engaged in coloured goods manufacture. This mill, owing to the keen competition and more efficient and better and more modern machinery and very acute trade depression then existing in the cotton trade caused by the increased nationalistic policy of especially France by departing from a nearly free-trade policy to tariffs which completely reversed the policy of the previous 20 years.

[note at end of article: John Rice, b 1789. T Wilde Rice, b. 1820. Same name with two more birth date, (son and grandson?) 1851 and 1882. Children of John Sellers 1792: Elizabeth, James, Marshall, William, Charles, Ezra, Richard, Thurza, Alice. 

At this point Frank's notebook continues, it appears that all this text was written at the same time.

This especially affected manufactured goods, this was in 1881, and had a depressing effect on the Lancashire cotton trade again. In 1892 the French government became full blown protectionists again with a disturbing effect on the cotton trade.

In Germany the liberal tariff remained in operation till 1879 when there was a change in policy he(?) made a moderate increase in duties which tripled the customs revenue and at he same time took steps to avert retaliation by a series of commercial treaties in which they made full use of their prestige acquired by Germany in 1871.
Average duty in France during period 1881-1914 34%
Germany 25%
Russia 131%

Here there is a line ruled across the page and a new section begins

1925
Since the way the tariffs or scale of duties were substantially increased in 1925 this shook the confidence of Englishmen in the infallibility of Free Trade principles. In 1923 Protection was a definite issue in the elections, but the electorate were unconvinced, but during the next 12 years when the slump in world trade gradually developed and reached bottom.
A 33% anti-dumping duty was imposed on a number of articles such as fabric gloves, lace, wrapping paper, gas mantles etc. Colonial Preferences were granted in 1925 duties on silk and ??? thus making considerable [ is there a word missing – perhaps inroads?] into the British Policy of Free Trade.

There is then a separate note in a different hand which adds:

Moved from Nelson in 1886 to take charge of TW Rice's Mill.

This note is signed M.A.V. presumably Mabel A Vere, Frank's younger sister 1885-1980(?)


Tony Nixon 19th Oct 2010 tony@dudleyandtony.co.uk

[Stanley]

DIXON INDEX ENTRIES 08/03/12

1818
Crook and Dixon were partners in a brass and iron foundry near the junction of St James' and Bridge Streets in Burnley. (Bennett. History of Burnley Vol. 3 Page194/195)
1834
Pigot Directory notes Mrs Elizabeth Dixon on Newmarket Street in Skipton.
1887
Barrett directory for Barnoldswick notes William Dixon as shopkeeper at 27 Church Street and in 1902 as draper at 35 Church Street.
SCG/08/03/12

[Wendyf]

There was another member on the old site- Cloghopper, who was a nephew of the Dinsdales at Tunstead. I think he lived with them as a child.
The last thing I remember doing in the search for no 3 Colne Road, was to pop into Barlick Library to see about Electoral Rolls for the area. They didn't have them at the library, so I suppose they will be in the Lancashire record office.

[PanBiker]

The Electoral Registers for Kelbrook at that date may well be in one of the Yorkshire record offices, it's only been in Lancashire since 1974. I don't think they move them when they shift the boundaries about do they?

[Wendyf]

You are right Ian, they aren't in Preston. I have just delved into the Archive and found my last post, the Electoral registers are in the West Riding record office in Wakefield.

[Stanley]

In the days when I was researching heavily it was amazing how much Barlick related stuff was in the Yorkshire AS at Leeds. I could never understand that. Ian is right, as far as I know the archives before 1974 were left where they were.
http://www.yas.org.uk/

[Wendyf]

I have found no 3 marked on a large scale map of Kelbrook, printed in 1963. It was the first house on the left past the chip shop heading towards Colne. The Craven Heifer was no 2.

[PanBiker]

Well done Wendy. What I can't really understand here though is that little will have changed with the house or road layout since 1963. So when and why was it renumbered?

[Stever]

Many thanks to all, everything is of interest as it helps build up a fuller picture of what was happening in the area.

Thanks in particular to Wendyf, for finding another number 3 Colne Road.

My wife and I walked up the lane to the vicarage at the side of the craven heifer and used the crossing outside the chipshop on the way back to our car, we saw all the houses up the road and have recently seen a photo on Stanleys Kelbrook part three, showing the same view, but from1930.

We will have a new look on Google earth.

Does anyone know what's happened to cloghopper? it was his original posting that set me off on your old website, it was his aunt Rose/Rosemary? nee dixon, turns out she may have been Matthias's sister, i can't remember it exactly.
I can't seem to get back to the old site and that original forum - is there a secret formula?
Does any one have cloghoppers details so I can e mail direct? Is he a Dinsdale?
We have recently received a copy of Richard Thwaite Dixons will - as a widower with 2 young children he took on a housekeeper,
one Laura Horner from throstle nest farm at Conistone above Grassmere, he left her a large part of his assets and possibly the house, in thanks for her long service.

Did she stay in the area?

His son arthur moved to stockport to open a butchers shop - daughter Mary got some inheritance but then.... I don't know it doesn't say what happened to her.
So many questions - not all the answers yet but we are getting there. thanks again forall your help.
Regards Stever

[PanBiker]

Stever, when the old site went down, Doc had to launch the new one ahead of time slightly. The different platforms mean that all the old members needed to re-register on the new site. Cloghopper has not rejoined the new site yet so there is no real way to contact him through the forum at the present.
The old site is now accessible as an archive from the link on the forum homepage. The current content is limited at the moment as it is effectively a snapshot of the site taken shortly before the server crashed. The google indexing of the archive is still in progress and as each day passes more becomes available from the search on the front page of the archive. The archive is read only and you cannot post anything on the old site but as time passes Doc is hoping to instigate the last full backup of the old site that he took just before the crash. He is working on this at the moment. Most of the old members that have rejoined so far have used the same usernames so you will just have to keep an eye out for Cloggy to rejoin and then you could try sending him a PM if he does not post in your topic. You can check the members by clicking on the link at the top of the forum page, you can select groups of members alphabetically. If I come across him first I will drop you a PM if I remember.

[Wendyf]

Cloghopper's "Thwaite/Dixon" post is here
Another post, where he mentioned his early childhood with the Dinsdales seems to be inaccessible at the moment.

[Stanley]

I love watching you lot helping each other. It's very caring and hence supportive. Lovely!

[Stever]

Happy Days!

Afternoon everyone.

Thanks to WendyF I have reread Clogghoppers original posting and persevered with the old website
(only took 2 hours of repeating the links to get there).

As you know we found Matthias Dixons Sister in the grave yard at Kelbrook, having been the residents at Tunstead Farm.

This couple, Rosemary Dinsdale and her husband Frances Spence Dinsdale had quite a family:

Matthias Dixon Dinsdale
Mary Dinsdale
John Dinsdale
Rose Dinsdale
Francis Dinsdale
James Dinsdale
Frank Dinsdale
Alfred Robert Dinsdale

It would appear from one of Clogghoppers other notes that his "Dads brother Frank Dinsdale worked at Calf Hall Farm" i.e. Cloggy's uncle Frank.

If this Frank is the same Frank, as in Frank Son of Rosemary and Frances, then Clogghopper is a distant relation to my wife.

I know I have to wait for Cloggy to sign up to the new website, to get any further, but with the other names added and lots of Dinsdales listed in and around Kelbrook does this spark any new leads?

Ever hopeful

Regards

Stever

[Stever]

Me again,

I forgot to ask, how do I "thanks" to my profile page, I always say thank you for the help I get

but how does it appear or do I have to do something?

Usless at all things cyber

Stever

[PanBiker]

You can thank an individual for their post by clicking on the "Thumbs Up" icon at the top right of the post. You will then see the thanks inserted at the bottom of the page as I have done on your post above. I also inserts a rating bar for the post.

[Stanley]

The 'thanks' button is a major improvement in the site. It lets you express appreciation easier and it's nice for the original poster because often good posts don't get evidence they have been read or feedback.

[Stever]

Hi every one,

I have had a go at thanking people, now I know how it makes it easy.

I am planning a trip in the next week to maybe visit the Boundry shop at Colne and call in at Kelbrook again, as WendyF mentioned a 1963 map showing no 3 colne road I thought Iwould ask..

is it a map I can look at, borrow, take a copy of? is it in the library or with the historical society?

If you can let me know... ta!

[Wendyf]

Hi Steve,
The map I looked at belongs to the Earby History Society. It is a 1:2500 Ordnance Survey map. You can see the same map on the Old Maps website. Put Kelbrook into the search box then page down through the list of maps till you get to the 1963 version. (You can buy a pdf version online, but it costs £16).
Link to old maps

I don't think that Earby library keep maps, but Barlick library should have a copy.

[Stever]

Hi Wendy,

Thats bloomin' marvelous, your tip coupled with a bit of magic called "zapgrab" now means I have an A3 copy of Kelbrook in 1963.

Its a little blurred but I can clearly see no. 3 no. 5 etc -

When we walk round Kelbrook next time we will know where to stop & stare & maybe even ask a few locals, if they are old enough.

I'll report back if anything comes of it.

Cheers!

Stever

[Wendyf]

I'm nervously awaiting your next question !!
Once the history society's new archive room is a bit more sorted out I will have a look for the one 1930's Kelbrook Parish Magazine that's in the archive. There must surely be more somewhere.....

[Wendyf]

Just bringing this topic up for Cloghopper to see.

[cloghopper]

And I've just seen it.
In reply to Stevers queries; yes Rosemary Dinsdale nee Dixon was my paternal grandmother. I was officially born in Earby, and spent my early infancy at Harden Hall Farm, whilst grandparents and Alfred Robert Dinsdale were at Tunstead.
I've been a long time away, but am still in touch with a cousin who lives at Thornton in Craven and another at Bolton by Bowland. We are a large and scattered family now; and difficult to keep in touch with everyone.
all the best
cloggy

[Stanley]

Lovely! Nice to see things falling into place.