Winged Heroes

[Wendyf]

Thanks Ian, we are heading out for a walk down the clough this afternoon so I'll take my camera along, we might catch them on their way home.

[PanBiker]

Here's Aidens shot of the Dakota.



Aiden Wellock - Northern Images Photography

[Tripps]

I checked the weather for Coningsby today, and the wind is said to be 8 mph. I also stumbled across this Flypast insurance cost which might be a factor?

[Tizer]

That's a great photo! The Dakota and the Hercules are two of my favourite aircraft, both have been fantastic workhorses over many decades. We are fortunate to see Hercules flying over us quite often, usually very low and turning, giving us good views. But a couple of days ago we got a different and impressive view as we were driving across the flat moor of the Somerset Levels. We could see a Hercules coming towards us from a long distance away and seeming to be at treetop level, giving a marvellous head on silhouette, getting bigger all the time and finally skimming past us. I can understand why the pilots like them so much!

That's a shame about the flypast being cancelled. Insurance companies don't take risks these days.

[Tripps]

Poor journalism really - they say the cost would be £25,000,000 - then they say that would be the amount covered, and the premium would be £50,000 - still enough to stop the job.

I've no idea, but I wonder if the passenger jets which land at Heathrow are similarly insured, and what the premium would be for a Jumbo with 400+ passengers landing on central London would be. It will surely happen eventually.

As Mona Lott used to say - "It's being so cheerful as keeps me going"

[PanBiker]

30 years ago I took part in a coordinated full scale exercise involving all the emergency services, the Emergency County Planning Officer and RAYNET (Radio Amateurs Emergency Network). The scenario for Burnley and Pendle was that there had been a mid air collision above Pike Hill at Burnley. This is one of the vectoring points for outgoing and incoming flights to Manchester airport from the North Atlantic and the USA. It was estimated by the statisticians that the amount of air traffic sharing that particular section of airspace could well produce a major incident within the next 30 years.

As radio amateurs equipped with mobile and portable telecommunication equipment the organization can provide additional communication support for the emergency services. It was like a giant war game all across the two boroughs with instructions coming from a central control dispatching radio amateur mobile units to investigate incidents and report back to control so the relevant level of support was provided. I worked a scenario on the outskirts of Colne around Barrowford Road where a burning engine from a Boeing 747 had supposedly taken out a row of semi detached houses. Like you say Tripps, something like this is bound to happen at some point.

It should be pointed out in any debate about the safety of vintage aircraft that in themselves they are all maintained to very high level and from an insurance point of view there is a huge difference between a basic flypast and a display. Flypasts may well overfly built up areas as ours did yesterday and make more than one pass but turning to make additional passes is normally done outside any built up area. Organised displays of course are totally different matter and additional safeguards are put into place such as a minimum demarcation distance from the main crowd line. In addition the pilots that get to fly these aircraft are the very best of the best and getting the gig to fly a Spitfire, Hurricane or the Lancaster is often said to be the pinnacle of many a pilots career. The vast majority have come from a fast jet fighter background and are totally professional in how they regard their duty. At the end of the day you cannot eliminate all risk from any given scenario, Shoreham was tragic but not a common occurrence by any means, more have been killed at once in multi car pileups on the motorway, its just a different way to go, wrong place at the wrong time.

[Tripps]

Interesting to see that RAYNET is still active - in the age of mobile phones / Sat phones etc.
I see from their website that the test transmissions on 80m have been stopped due to poor propagation, and high noise - says it all. The urge to help remains strong.

Back to air crashes - I took more than a passing interest in the Shoreham incident since I lived on an RAF Station - right next to the runway - in the sixties where a squadron of Hawker Hunters operated. As best I recall, there was a crash on a Sunday morning which was very similar to that at Shoreham . The talk was that the Squadron Commander was involved; having a flight to keep his flying skills up to date. He went straight up, and came straight down.

I found a site which lists all RAF aircraft losses, but this incident is not listed there. My memory is getting vaguer, and I can't remember if I actually saw the smoke from the crash, but I think I might have done. I am in little doubt though that it happened. Puzzling.

[Stanley]

David, you're showing your age.... Mona Lott from ITMA! I wonder how many still remember her..... When I first posted about the Cheshire crash I saw I remember we had a job finding a reference to it but in the end we confirmed my memory was correct.
I note from Private Eye an apology from the BBC about their coverage of the mass Spitfire flight at Biggin Hill on the 18 August congratulating listeners who had noted that when they used the music composed by Ron Goodwin for the film Battle of Britain they used the opening soundtrack which rather unfortunately turns out to be the Luftwaffe March.... Oh dear.....

[Tripps]

I must have looked in the wrong place. Looked again, and found this almost immediately. There are other examples which might indicate that the Hawker Hunter is not the best vehicle for aerobatics.

Hunter crash 1964

[Tizer]

Tripps, I couldn't find anything about your Hunter crash, perhaps it was kept from the public due to the commander being involved? Or it could have been a different make of aircraft but you've remembered it was a Hunter. The worst Hunter loss was in 1956, six aircraft in one incident: LINK

The Hawker Hunter was known for a different type of incident in 1968: LINK

[Tripps]

Tiz - looks like you missed my post above yours. That covers it, though it's ambiguous, in that he describes two different incidents as happening to the same aircraft on the same date. The first one covers what I recall. Puzzling. Perhaps I was wrong about the Squadron Commander bit, but there were RAF lads in the room I lived in, and I'm pretty sure one of them said that.
Everything I read shows that a fifty year old Hunter is not the best choice for aerobatics.

PS

Nor the Spitfire? Lucky escape?

[Tizer]

Thanks for pointing out that I'd missed your post. It hadn't shown up when I posted mine. I like the quote from the plaque they put up for the other pilot, Pete Martin: " Within 200 yds of this spot, Flt Lt. P. Martin, pranged an Aston Martin DB6, a Harley Davidson motorbike and a Hawker Hunter aircraft". Shame about the Spitfire, it all adds to making the public more wary about older aircraft.

[Tripps]

And within 500 yards of that spot Dave Tripps lived for two and a half years, and never realised how dangerous a spot it was. I often wondered what the medal was for - perhaps that was it.

[Stanley]

Nice posts......

[Stanley]

See THIS for a report on today's biggest ever gathering of fighters since WW2 at Goodwood.....

[PanBiker]

Just found out via Facebook that the last operational Vulcan XH558 is due to overfly Barlick on Saturday, time yet to be confirmed. Here is the Map for this sortie:

XH558 National Tour - Northern Route - Saturday 10th October

Looking at the map the approach should be from the North West from Bowness on Windermere over Barlick then a turn to Clitheroe and on to Salmesbury.

[PanBiker]

Latest update for the Vulcan flyover is 14.35 today for it's arrival over Barlick. Updates will be on the Barnoldswick Talk Facebook page.

Barnoldswick Talk

Just looked at the Vulcans Facebook page and the crew are being briefed for today's Northern Tour sortie.

[Moh]

Just been tp Barlick to see the Vulcan - we watched from up Manchester Road, I think the people in Letcliffe Park would get the best view when it turned.

[Gloria]

It came very low right over the top of us, that's the second time in a month

[Stanley]

I heard it, rushed out to the yard tripping over Jack on the way and stubbing my toe badly. Never saw it, just heard the roar of its engines.... (My big toe still hurts this morning....)
I had a look on the web and Nick Livesey has put up a video of it coming over.

[Tizer]

I envy you seeing the Vulcan! Today it does it's Southern tour but we're too far from the route to see it and the visibility isn't good (low cloud base and mist). I think there are other tours still to come so I'll keep my fingers crossed. I'm lucky to have seen a Vulcan flying several times in the past and will never forget the experience. In the 1980s it would quietly fly low to the air show, suddenly appear over the rooftops then point it's nose up sharply, put the power on and make the Earth shake as it went up like a rocket. I think I've said before that the US air force calls it the `Aluminum Overcast'. We understand how that name came about from a holiday we enjoyed on the Isle of Sky in the 1970s. We stopped the car on a beautiful sunny day at a small deserted beach on the north side of the Island and stood looking out to sea. Silence and a wonderful feeling of isolation, with the mountains of Sutherland in the far distance. Suddenly everything darkened as in an eclipse of the sun - very spooky - and then this big grey beast seemed to glide slowly over us, very low from the south and out to sea. Almost no sound, it seemed quieter than a hot air balloon. We couldn't believe our eyes and ears! It's only in recent years that I learned how that was the time when the V bombers had lost their nuclear bombing role to the submarines and the Vulcans had been given a new role - this one was starting out on a journey towards the Arctic Sea to patrol the boundaries and seek out `Russian bears'.

[Stanley]

It would certainly fail today's noise regulations.....

[Stanley]

My mate John Mills caught some video of the Vulcan. (Doubleboost)
VULCAN AT NEWCASTLE ON TYNE

IT'S AT THE END OF THE VIDEO BUT THE REST OF IT IS WORTH LOOKING AT......

[Tizer]

Photos on BBC web site today...
`In pictures: Lancaster in tribute to Bomber Command fallen'
LINK
"Pictures have been released of the only airworthy Lancaster in the UK as it took to the skies after being grounded due to an engine fire in May. The Battle of Britain Memorial Flight's (BBMF) Lancaster, known as Thumper, based at RAF Coningsby, took to the skies for a test flight on Monday. This was followed by a flypast over the newly created Bomber Command memorial spire in Lincoln."

[Stanley]

Lovely! I wonder how long we can keep an aircraft like this flying.... Eventually it will have to be grounded and a valuable reminder of history will be lost forever. We got to be experts in aircraft recognition during the war because the Jerries didn't synchronise their engines. Was this deliberate to make them sound more menacing?