WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by Bodger » 16 Nov 2019, 08:21

China, sorry for your troubles, what's the food like in hospitals there?, can you request an "English" ?. bodger

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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by chinatyke » 16 Nov 2019, 08:50

no english food but the food is very good. I am on a low salt low sugar controlled diet at 3 quid a day and I have no complaint. I could live like this, cheapest hotel in the city.

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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by Marilyn » 16 Nov 2019, 09:08

Better than what I got in a private hospital. The word inedible springs to mind....( not that I cared, but one has to eat something when on Metformin!)

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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by plaques » 16 Nov 2019, 11:49

Cathy wrote:
16 Nov 2019, 08:13
I hate it when I see a child seemingly on their own at the shops, I always stop to see that someone ‘claims’ them.
Things are really getting spooky or are these incidences more frequent than we think. Driving down for my morning swim 8-30 am there was this young boy about 4 years old dressed in a lightweight T shirt and equally lightweight sorts with a bag slung over his shoulder. Ambient temperature about 5 C degrees and light rain and nobody about. Ok we were in a built up area but what do you do? Stop and interrogate the kid and be accused of possible abduction. Ring the police, if you can get through, at Burnley 10 miles away, or drive on and hope that its just some uncaring parent? Not a dilemma I like to be faced with. Nothing to do with police cut backs of course.

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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by PanBiker » 16 Nov 2019, 19:26

Out canvassing today and the sheer nastiness of one particular elector who came to the door effing and blinding at our female canvasser who drew the short straw it would seem by knocking on his door. So much venom, profanities and negative rhetoric there was no point in trying to engage in a conversation. We have a policy in the Labour Party that no one canvasses alone and this episode just reinforces why, totally unnecessary behaviour. :sad:
Ian

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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by Stanley » 17 Nov 2019, 02:54

Body cameras Ian? That's unforgivable behaviour.
Evidence in back yard of someone being in back yard last night. Gate open and a split in a bag of coal where someone has stood on it. Looks as though someone came down off the roof of the outshut next door and out by my gate at a guess. Puzzling. I'll have a closer look when it's light.
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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by Tizer » 17 Nov 2019, 11:01

Has the neighbour noticed anything in their yard or, worse, have they been burgled?

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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by PanBiker » 17 Nov 2019, 11:10

Stanley wrote:
17 Nov 2019, 02:54
Body cameras Ian? That's unforgivable behaviour.
I think we would have a lot of hoops to jump through if we used that tech. GDPR and all that, notifying everyone that we are filming them. Regardless of your politics a civil no thanks or I vote for X,Y, Z but not you would suffice. You could tell instantly which of the tabloid press he has been groomed by and that unfortunately is the truth of it. Come polling day for my own amusement I will take particular note to see if his polling number is presented at his polling place. Quite often the most vociferous and belligerent electors can't be bothered.
Ian

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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by plaques » 17 Nov 2019, 11:29

PanBiker wrote:
17 Nov 2019, 11:10
I will take particular note to see if his polling number is presented at his polling place.
I know that you can view the electoral register to see who is registered for voting but I thought the actual act of voting was secret. Ie: Mr X always turns up to vote, is this act available for scrutiny by third parties but who he voted for is not?

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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by Tripps » 17 Nov 2019, 11:54

I am also disturbed that a party activist can have sight of the 'tick list' of who has voted. Is that in order? I am instinctively (politely) obnoxious to anyone who approaches me when I go to vote.

I suppose in the greater scheme of things it's not too important, but it irritates me. :smile:
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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by PanBiker » 17 Nov 2019, 12:31

Marked registers have always been available to anyone who wishes to peruse them and are available from the council, some libraries keep them also.

From a political point of view, tellers are a traditional part of the polling process. They operate under strict guidelines set by the electoral commission. They are there to ensure that if you have voted and you surrender your number you will not be included in the "knock up" rounds throughout the day. If you don't give your number none of the parties know that you have voted so you are likely to be targetted throughout the day. You would appear on every knock up sheet produced for your street so could get knocked by all parties several times through the day.

The whole point for any party of course is that during the run up you try to identify your target voter pool. On election day the only job is to ensure that you encourage all of that target to vote.

There is no way of course that anyone can tell how you voted only that you did or didn't. Another usage of the marked registers is that parties can make an informed decision on who's doors they knock on, no point canvassing folk that either are not registered to vote or never turn out. We try to canvas those not on the register outside of election times to engage with them and encourage them to register to vote.

As regards to being suspicious of activists having sight of this information. All electoral activity is done within the rules of the GDPR. All electronically transferred information is encrypted and single use password protected, printed material is shredded after entry to secure database systems, access to those systems is again strictly controlled within constituency parties. I can only comment on the Labour Party usage of course but the same rules apply to all other parties.
Ian

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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by Tripps » 17 Nov 2019, 12:53

PanBiker wrote:
17 Nov 2019, 12:31
There is no way of course that anyone can tell how you voted
Ian thanks for that full explanation. It all depends on everyone involved being trustworthy I suppose. We discussed this a long time ago, when I pointed out that your card number is on the back of your ballot paper - thus someone can find out who you voted for. We trust them not to do so. I was told then that it is an essential precaution against malpractice.

How's the battle going Ian? From the betting, and to my surprise, it seems that Mr Stephenson is home and dry - his odds are 1/10, with Labour at 5/1.
Born to be mild. . .

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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by PanBiker » 17 Nov 2019, 13:13

I never take any notice of polls or odds, You can always find one in your favour. It's much easier to look at the feedback and the overall data for our patch. Yesterday we had a lot of folk that were out as it was Saturday afternoon and in Barlick that is either exodus day or yesterday was the Christmas light switch on up on the town square which is always well attended. From who we did talk to, we had a lot of undecided. I think folk are generally confused over whether to vote on policy or how they perceive brexit. As it's for the longer game, policy has it hands down for me, brexit will of course have a massive impact but policy is with us for a lot longer.
Ian

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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by plaques » 17 Nov 2019, 17:58

Thanks Ian, nicely explained. We do our voting by post so that I don't have to growl at the activists sat at the doorway. I get on quite well with the canvassers, by the time they get to our house they are on their last legs so I get to do all the talking. 2017 the Labour man was so tired, ours being his last call, he sat on the garden bench with us and had quite a pleasant chat. See, I'm not all bad.

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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by Wendyf » 17 Nov 2019, 18:31

Canvassers? Never seen one up here. 😅

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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by Tripps » 17 Nov 2019, 20:09

PanBiker wrote:
17 Nov 2019, 12:31
Marked registers have always been available to anyone who wishes to peruse them and are available from the council, some libraries keep them also.
Yes - but not on the day of the poll. You will work I guess from your voluntarily obtained, (not demanded ) information. Excludes curmudgeonly elderly gents. :smile:


I've found this -

Appendix 8
Guidance on tellers, the media and exit polls
Tellers
Tellers volunteer for parties and candidates. They stand outside polling stations or polling
places and record the elector number of voterswho have voted. By identifying electors who
have not voted and relaying this information to the party, candidate or their supporters, tellers
play a vital and important role in elections. The party, candidate or their supporters may then
contact the voters who have not yet been to vote during polling day and encourage them to vote.

There should be no more than one teller at a polling station at any time for each candidate.
Where a polling place contains more than one polling station with separate entrances, it may
be appropriate for there to be tellers at each entrance, but no more than one per candidate.
Tellers have no legal status and voters have the right to refuse to give them any information.
The Returning Officer or their staff may provide further guidance on the activities of tellers.
Tellers must:
• always remain outside the polling station
• only enter the polling station to cast their own vote, to vote as a proxy or to accompany a
disabled voter
• always comply with the instructions of the Returning Officer and Presiding Officer

Tellers must not:
• be able to see or hear what is happening inside the polling station
• impede, obstruct or intimidate voters on their way in or out of the polling station
• demand any information relating to a voter’s elector number, name or address • ask voters to re-enter the polling station to ascertain their elector number
• have discussions with voters that may give rise to allegations of undue influence (e.g. voting
intentions, party affiliations or party campaigns)
• display any campaign material in support of or against any particular political party or
candidate other than a rosette or badge

Tellers may:
• approach voters for information as they enter or leave the polling station
• display a coloured rosette or badge displaying the name of the candidate or
political party; the rosette/badge should not bear a slogan and must not be oversized
The Presiding Officer should check on tellers activities from time to time and make sure that
they do not block the entrance or hinder voters
from entering the polling station.
Born to be mild. . .

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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by Stanley » 18 Nov 2019, 03:13

Tiz, nothing reported. I have put it sown as one of life's little mysteries.
I used to distrust tellers but when I realised it was to maximise the effect of my vote I changed my mind.
(In political terms a U-turn!)
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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by PanBiker » 18 Nov 2019, 09:19

Tripps wrote:
17 Nov 2019, 20:09
Yes - but not on the day of the poll. You will work I guess from your voluntarily obtained, (not demanded ) information. Excludes curmudgeonly elderly gents.
Yes, because on the day a new "marked register" is being created by the staff at each polling place.

The guidance for tellers is what we and other parties work to. With regard to rosettes, you are not allowed to canvass for votes in the environs of the polling place so a tellers rosette cannot include the word "vote". It can have the name of the party or the candidate or both but no encouragement in which way to cast your vote.

Practically on the day, most tellers are local folk and there is generally a bit of camaraderie and jolly banter in the group, regardless of party loyalties If you are doing a two hour stint with a bunch of people, no point being stand offish. :smile: In venues that have the luxury of toilets, tellers will usually cover for each other and share the numbers missed during a toilet break. Not all parties field tellers and some cannot do full cover of all stations for the 12 hours that they are open. It's only an effective strategy if you can do full cover.

The other way to turn out your vote on polling day is to knock everyone in your target pool. This approach means that as the day goes on you are annoying a lot of folk who have already voted and they generally don't like it, particularly if more than one team visit them and they get knocked numerous times. I have never liked this approach.

Crunching the numbers on the day in real time definitely has advantages for the electorate as you have a good 95% chance of only knocking folk who have not yet voted but a lot of folk don't realise that as they don't know how the system works. The 5% error rate is in the time it takes to input the information from the last collection of teller sheets. Generally speaking you will only find an odd one or two that have already voted.

Historically before the advent of computerised systems, all parties used to canvass directly off copies of the marked electoral register. The knocking up operation on polling day was done using manually written up multipart carbon sheets with your target voters information on. Two wards in Barlick and we generally needed six trestle tables to set the sheets up for making off. Numbers collected by tellers were manually struck off the sheets and when you wanted to do a knock up run you tore the top sheets off and handed them to your knockers. The next layer of sheets were a different colour and you continued striking off the numbers until the next knocking session. It was manic and needed multiple people to run the operation.

Current computer based systems use an online secure database and with internet connectivity the data entered locally can be seen at constituency level then in turn by region and the national party. The system automatically caters for postal voters and excludes them from the knock up.
Ian

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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by plaques » 18 Nov 2019, 09:47

Add to this 'Big Data' which virtually knows what you had for breakfast never mind which way you are likely to vote and you get exit polls that are as near as dammit right. The only way to break through these tribal sclerotic outcomes is to get the young people, who incidentally have the most to lose from a Tory government, to get out there and vote.

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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by PanBiker » 18 Nov 2019, 10:13

Hit the nail on the head there P especially with your last sentence, the 18 - 30 year group is the key. They have to live with the ramifications the longest.
Ian

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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by Tizer » 18 Nov 2019, 10:22

Thanks guys for all the explanation about the election process.
PanBiker wrote:
17 Nov 2019, 13:13
...As it's for the longer game, policy has it hands down for me, brexit will of course have a massive impact but policy is with us for a lot longer.
Ian, an alternative view is that you can throw out the incumbent party at the next election but if we leave the EU we won't get a chance to reverse that decision.

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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by PanBiker » 18 Nov 2019, 11:42

Tizer wrote:
18 Nov 2019, 10:22
Ian, an alternative view is that you can throw out the incumbent party at the next election but if we leave the EU we won't get a chance to reverse that decision.
Indeed Tiz but running a general election on purely brexit is not the way forward in my view and fortunately my chosen parties view. I reckon we have it about right, (after much deliberation). Fight on policy in which case we should win hands down. If successful, in the first three months negotiate a workable deal, put that deal to the electorate in another referendum with an option to remain. Action the result of the referendum, in or out based on what the electorate know now not on what was said three years ago.
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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by Tripps » 18 Nov 2019, 13:11

I watched a programme about modern day China last night, and leaving aside the staggering appearance of the modern cities there, saw the most amazing device.

An Englishman and an elderly Chinese man had a fluent conversation - each speaking his own language. Both had a largish ear piece, which which heard what the speaker said, and translated it into the listener's language.

Not sure what stage of development it's at, but the consequences must be enormous.

Who would have thought it even possible? :smile:
Born to be mild. . .

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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by Big Kev » 18 Nov 2019, 18:48

Conveyancing solicitors, they seem to forget that they're being paid to do a job. They're not doing you a favour.

Rant over :-)
Kev

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Re: WHAT ATTRACTED YOUR ATTENTION TODAY?

Post by chinatyke » 18 Nov 2019, 23:40

great translation apps are installed on my Huawei smartphone. The Chinese translator works very well and just about everyone knows how to use it. Even the predictive text gives sensible suggestions instead of the gibberish they used to churn out. I can also photograph Chinese text and it will translate it. Great for lazy people like me.

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