COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Pluggy » 01 Apr 2013, 15:31

PM for you Moh.
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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by PanBiker » 01 Apr 2013, 18:26

Pluggy may have already suggested this but instead of taking the card out, can't you just use a USB lead to plug into your computer. The camera would then appear just as an external drive on your computer and the photo's can be directly accessed and copied. Or does your camera not have a USB connection?
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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Stanley » 02 Apr 2013, 04:44

Kev, I found that way of doing it but on the whole I'll go with Pluggy, leave it alone! It's working fine on the old version.
Moh, it might comfort you to know that the fix suggested by Kev is gobbledegook to me as well! While you have the case open do what I do occasionally, vacuum the dust out of everything! That's well within your pay grade and a good thing to do.
Sorry to hear about your problems with 12.04 Tiz. I haven't had any problem but I suppose there's time yet! The FMIII is running fine and Pluggy was right, it's fast! Money well spent and I have the security of knowing that it's all brand new. No, it won't see me out, I'm going to live longer than that! Still getting used to the altered interface but it's not a big problem, change always has to be paid for one way or the other!
Kev, looking forward to hearing your report on the FMII when you get it fully loaded and have a play with it. Did you cure that piddling little fan? This box that Pluggy built the FMIII into has a big fan on top for extra air but Pluggy was of my opinion, the chip never gets hot so he never bothered to connect it.
Just out of curiosity, is there a way to read chip temperature in 12.4?
Later. I noted a cunning little improvement in the interface this morning. In Gimp you usually have several windows open and to tidy the screen you lay the least used over each other at the side of the screen. I noticed that the Gimp icon on the sidebar of the desktop had three dashes on the left hand side. When I click on them the overlaid windows separate and scatter across the screen. Cunning.....
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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Big Kev » 02 Apr 2013, 07:52

Stanley wrote:Kev, looking forward to hearing your report on the FMII when you get it fully loaded and have a play with it. Did you cure that piddling little fan?
I have Windows 7, MS Office 2007 and Photoshop CS6 installed. It looks to have stopped updating the OS and is, by comparison to the laptop I was using, a fast machine. Using the "Windows Experience" gizmo, that is shipped with Windows 7, processor, RAM and graphics all score in excess of 7.3 (from a potential maximum of 7.9) and the "reads and writes" of the HDD are 5.9. Without anything to compare against I don't know if the 5.9 is how the HDD should be.

The "piddling little fan still makes a noise for a couple of minutes after startup, not got around to looking at it yet. A couple more things to do this week, set up dual monitors and see if my graphics tablet is compatible with the 64bit OS...
Last edited by Big Kev on 02 Apr 2013, 15:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Tizer » 02 Apr 2013, 08:38

Pluggy wrote:Hmmm, my up to date 32 Bit Ubuntu 12.04 uses 3.2.0-39-generic-pae, It looks like 32 bit and 64 bit are using different kernel versions. The present Raspberry Pi kernel is at 3.6.11, although thats in a high state of flux. Possible downside to 64 bit ?. Putting a video card in to override the onboard Intel setup is one option
Going by the forums the problem seems to be affecting 32-bit as well as 64-bit. I think the 64-bit kernels are now 3.5 and the 32-bit are 3.2. When I mentioned above that the earlier kernel in my grub menu was playing up too I should have said that it's not freezing the PC - instead I get an error warning and am directed to file a bug report but when I click OK for that it then says it can't do it. I have to OK my way out of the error window and then I can continue working. I'm surprised that the developers haven't solved the problem yet, I now see there are reports of it happening when 12.04LTS was launched and since. I could keep on using the older kernel and hope that they get a fix for the bug soon but that might not happen - one of the error warnings says something like "Pangolin development is now finished" and directs me to get technical support instead of filing a report.

Stanley...are you on 64-bit? If you look in System Monitor what number kernel does it say you're using?

On Moh's problem....she says she put the card into a bigger slot - might she mean into a floppy drive slot?

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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by PanBiker » 02 Apr 2013, 09:19

I cant see why Moh has to take the card out of the camera.
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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Pluggy » 02 Apr 2013, 11:24

Tizer wrote:
Pluggy wrote:Hmmm, my up to date 32 Bit Ubuntu 12.04 uses 3.2.0-39-generic-pae, It looks like 32 bit and 64 bit are using different kernel versions. The present Raspberry Pi kernel is at 3.6.11, although thats in a high state of flux. Possible downside to 64 bit ?. Putting a video card in to override the onboard Intel setup is one option
Going by the forums the problem seems to be affecting 32-bit as well as 64-bit. I think the 64-bit kernels are now 3.5 and the 32-bit are 3.2. When I mentioned above that the earlier kernel in my grub menu was playing up too I should have said that it's not freezing the PC - instead I get an error warning and am directed to file a bug report but when I click OK for that it then says it can't do it. I have to OK my way out of the error window and then I can continue working. I'm surprised that the developers haven't solved the problem yet, I now see there are reports of it happening when 12.04LTS was launched and since. I could keep on using the older kernel and hope that they get a fix for the bug soon but that might not happen - one of the error warnings says something like "Pangolin development is now finished" and directs me to get technical support instead of filing a report.

Stanley...are you on 64-bit? If you look in System Monitor what number kernel does it say you're using?

On Moh's problem....she says she put the card into a bigger slot - might she mean into a floppy drive slot?
I installed Stanley's OS from the same CD I used for yours, 64 bit, and I did all the updates before I took it round, so its very likely the same kernel as yours. Stanleys has a seperate VGA card and doesn't use the same on board video system as yours anyway, so is unlikely to be affected. (Yours is an Intel B75 Express, Stanley's a Intel H77 Express) My system is getting on a bit and whilst having an on-board Intel video chipset (Intel N10), isn't the same as yours. It looks like the same bug has worked it's way into both 32 bit and 64 bit kernels. Interesting that they use a later kernel for 64 bit.
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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Moh » 02 Apr 2013, 12:30

PanBiker wrote:I cant see why Moh has to take the card out of the camera.
No i suppose I don't, it has a lead, but it is something I have always done - I shall know in future.
Thanks for pm Stephen I have replied.
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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Tizer » 02 Apr 2013, 16:16

My old PC has a video card in it so I'll give that a try in the new PC tomorrow. Do I just insert it into the appropriate socket, switch over the screen cable and then boot the PC? Or do I have to change any settings in the BIOS first?

I should have pointed out for others who might be reading this that Pluggy wasn't lax and sent me a PC with a fault. The fault is in the combination of version of OS and type of Intel chip and hasn't been flagged up anywhere obvious. You have to know about it first to find it in the forums. And Pluggy wouldn't have seen the problem because it only occurs after browsing image-rich web sites for some time, not part of the usual testing of a PC.

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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Pluggy » 02 Apr 2013, 21:58

If the card fits, you just put it in and start the machine up. It will automatically disable the on-board video.
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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Stanley » 03 Apr 2013, 03:58

Kev, sounds as though the FMII might have solved your Pshop problem.... I'm pleased.
Tiz, had a look. It reports 12.04 (precise) 64bit and the kernel is 3.5.0-26. Gnome 3.4.2. I'm (almost) feeling guilty because I can't share your experience, but not quite! The FMIII is not exciting at all, just doing what it says on the tin. The main improvement from the change is the silent running and the speed of response both internal and on-line. This fulfils my main demand, that a machine should do what it's supposed to do. I know that's a personal thing and some people don't understand it but my view of any sort of machinery is that you have a contract with it, you do what you're supposed to do and it returns the favour. That's why I love Ubuntu as opposed to Windows, I never felt as though I owned the OS under Windows, it was constantly telling me what to do. Ubuntu is just the opposite, it lets you make the decisions and doesn't nag! I suppose the problem Tiz has hit is a downside to this. I hope you solve it soon....
Another thing I've noticed, and this is to do with the silent running. Years of assaults on my ears by heavy guns, diesels and things like riveting have damaged my hearing but here's a funny thing. Jack has pin sharp hearing and he hates my new door bell. If I press the doorbell button while I am outside I can hear the bell but he can't. Must be something to do with frequencies and flawed though my hearing is I can hear things he can't. Perhaps that's why noisy fans natter me so much!
One other thing puzzles me. Why does the update for the Windows OS take so much Time? The Ubuntu updates sometimes amount to 50Gb and seem to replace a whole slab of the OS with a new version and it takes maximum two or three minutes to complete.
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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Stanley » 03 Apr 2013, 04:53

I have just been punished for being smug. Pluggy, how do I get my card reader to recognise a card when it's inserted in it? On the MFII it registered on Gimp immediately it was inserted. It doesn't do thast at the moment. I had to use the USB camera to PC cable. Rather negates having the reader!
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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Big Kev » 03 Apr 2013, 07:38

Stanley wrote:Kev, sounds as though the FMII might have solved your Pshop problem.... I'm pleased.
One other thing puzzles me. Why does the update for the Windows OS take so much Time? The Ubuntu updates sometimes amount to 50Gb and seem to replace a whole slab of the OS with a new version and it takes maximum two or three minutes to complete.
Certainly looks to have done the job. The update process, in this particular instance, is because of the age of the Windows 7 disk. It's an original, "pre-release" disc so has a few years of updates to catch up on. I thik it's caught up now, though.
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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Stanley » 03 Apr 2013, 08:09

Now, how about my card reader?
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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Stanley » 03 Apr 2013, 08:35

I've been digging and think I've found the device;

Image

Any comments?
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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Tizer » 03 Apr 2013, 08:39

When you insert the card does an icon appear at the bottom of the column of icons at the left of your screen? Does it appear listed as a drive in your Home folder on the left side under `Computer'? Or is there nothing registering at all? If not, then I guess the card isn't `mounted'.

If you put the command lsusb into Terminal it will output the USB devices. I don't have a card reader but mine gives the following, showing my mouse and my Canon scanner:
~$ lsusb
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 8087:0024 Intel Corp. Integrated Rate Matching Hub
Bus 002 Device 002: ID 8087:0024 Intel Corp. Integrated Rate Matching Hub
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
Bus 001 Device 003: ID 045e:006a Microsoft Corp. Wireless Optical Mouse (IntelliPoint)
Bus 002 Device 003: ID 04a9:2220 Canon, Inc. CanoScan LIDE 25

If it's not USB but PCI connected then apparently it should show up with the command lspci

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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Big Kev » 03 Apr 2013, 10:08

Can't help you with the card reader, sorry. Does it need a driver?

With regard to the "piddling little fan". I've replaced the 2 screws with 4 bigger screws and some soft rubber washers, it is now seated firmly in the back of the case and is silent. :grin:

Windows 7 has stopped installing updates for now. All seems to be stable and running OK.
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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Moh » 03 Apr 2013, 12:34

Thanks to Pluggy I now have my card out, photos down loaded and a cleaned up computer - what a load of rubbish I had on there!! Thanks again Stephen and was nice to put a face to a name.
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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Pluggy » 03 Apr 2013, 12:49

The card reader looks like mine. It should automatically mount a card you put in one of the slots. It automatically opens a new nautilus window and shows the files. I did check it with one of my SD cards before I brought it round. I didn't have a compact flash to try it with. The screen shot says there isn't anything in the compact flash slot. It can be a bit picky, sometimes, I've had corrupted cards that will read in the camera but wouldn't mount in the card reader. I reformatted it in the camera from memory and it worked from then on. A quirk with this type of drive which you may have run foul of is if you 'safely remove drive' it disconnects the card reader altogther and doesn't work until you restart the computer.

Moh just posted, before I submitted this. I offered to sort it out and she accepted my offer. Thanks Moh, the Mrs will appreciate the funds. :)
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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Tizer » 03 Apr 2013, 13:55

Well done Moh, you've not only got your card and photos back but also had your computer `breathed on' by Pluggy (as people used to say when they'd had their car tuned by a good mechanic).

I've tried to correct the compatibility problem with my new computer by following Pluggy's suggestion to put in a video card. Going by what's written in the Ubuntu forums, the problem is likely between the software and the onboard graphics, and the video card would bypass the onboard stuff. I took the Gigabyte video card from my old PC and put it in the new one but got a bad result - it would boot and let me log in, giving the usual Ubuntu coloured screen but with nothing else and the system frozen. Tried about 6 times and once got a bit further but as soon as I opened my Home folder the PC froze. Tried also booting into the older Linux kernel but that didn't work at all - got a black screen with white text full of what's gibberish to me except for the words `GPU locked'.

Took the video card out to revert back to the onboard graphics and booted using the newer kernel (the problem one) and haven't had a problem so far! Wierd!

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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Pluggy » 03 Apr 2013, 15:34

I had a look at the temperature thing that Stanley mentioned earlier. Theres software available called psensor (type it into Ubuntu software centre). It asks a pile of questions to which you answer 'y'' to to confirm and when its done tells you the temperature of everything theres a sensor for in the computer CPU, harddisk chipset etc etc. It had the unfortunate habit of popping up like Windo$e nagware everytime you logged in so I decided the CPU temperature can do what it wants and removed it again....
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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Pluggy » 03 Apr 2013, 15:43

A suggestion to Tiz, I'd try it with the old video card in and boot from a Ubuntu 12.04 CD and 'Try Ubuntu' and see how it behaves running from the CD. It might yields some clues to a possible way forward, if it continues to give grief.
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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by PanBiker » 03 Apr 2013, 19:10

Won't the motherboard BIOS look after the CPU temperature? Last few boards I have used in my machines have all had CPU temperature sensing and shutdown on overheat.
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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by Pluggy » 03 Apr 2013, 20:42

Yes they do, but if you want visible figures inside the operating system, you need software in the OS. Most modern processors have over temperature protection built in. They don't shut down they just slow themselves down so they don't overheat. They'll run without a heatsink or fan, but very slowly. The BIOS may override this behaviour by shutting the whole board down, but either way the chip won't be damaged.
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Re: COMPUTERS, THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY

Post by PanBiker » 03 Apr 2013, 21:40

Can't really see a reason to manually monitor the CPU temperature if the hardware will look after it for you. Just the same as i can't really see why anyone would keep removing the memory card from a camera instead of just using the interface lead. Both cases of cutting out the middle man I suppose don't need a card reader either in the case of the latter.
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