POLITICS CORNER

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 07 Feb 2018, 08:53

Stanley wrote:
07 Feb 2018, 07:20
they have told T May that she has to make a legal decision immediately as to what we propose to do about Irish borders.
I reminded of my old maths lecturer who would call in at the after class chess club. He had this annoying habit that half way through the game he would say " You'll move your knight next, then the castle, then the pawn, and then I'll capture your queen". He was invariably right. But he was the Lancashire chess champion. Obviously the EU have got it all mapped out and are about 10 moves in front of us.
Stanley wrote:
07 Feb 2018, 07:20
it looks like economic suicide.
Look back into European history and see how the Monarchies would twist and turn to keep their loot and status. They would do anything to keep in control of the money and the rules that maintained their position. Change their religion, marry into 'suitable' families, bribes and back stabbing. As we know the Monarchy dynasty has ended but their are some of the leading Brexiters who are hankering after 'the Henry VIII' powers. The old days of serfs, plebs, and peasants could be on the horizon.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 07 Feb 2018, 10:16

If I were one of the EU negotiating team I'd want to say "Hey, you Brits are the ones who are doing the leaving, not us. We didn't choose to split from Britain. Your Parliament knows it's a bad move and that it will cause a lot of upset for all concerned."

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 07 Feb 2018, 22:06

Found Mrs May's Brexit signature tune.. Some of you will remember it..

We're busy doin' nothin'
Workin' the whole day through
Tryin' to find lots of things not to do
We're busy goin' nowhere
Isn't it just a crime
We'd like to be unhappy, but
We never do have the time

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 08 Feb 2018, 03:27

Image

Thinking about Moggy and the Vulcan I am reminded of Shakespeare; "Yond Cassius hath a lean and hungry look...."
"The old days of serfs, plebs, and peasants could be on the horizon." I think that's the grand plan P.
The only quote I have heard from the Brexit Cabinet is "I don't think any solution is going to be acceptable to all the participants." A bit bleeding obvious but I think that about sums it up and the bailiffs are about to move in.
See THIS for a BBC report on the assessment made by May's own government and finally released. This is a very shortened version, the NE is running at -16% and overall they voted to leave. Nobody told them this before they voted, just hogwash about £350million a week savings and complete sovereignty with no immigrants. I've always said it was a con trick......
But May says this is wrong so that's all right then.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 08 Feb 2018, 11:28

A couple of weeks ago Hugo Rifkind in The Times wrote a skit on the brexiteers and interspersed throughout were ministers saying `We must stop Rees-Mogg from taking Mesopotamia'.

Lord Malloch Brown was interviewed by John Humphrys this morning on `Today'. Malloch Brown gave the best exposition of the reasons for reversing the Brexit Leave decision that I've heard in public. Humphrys was aggressive and demanded to know how we would deal with the public who voted for Leave. His answer was that Parliament should make the decision to stay (which is what the majority of MPs believe is the right course and is how representative democracy should work) and then it was the job of the MPs to go back and explain to their constituents the reasons why this was the best decision.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 09 Feb 2018, 03:48

PE is very informative.... I posted this on another topic: 'Frank Fields, as chairman of the Parliamentary Pensions select committee has a query for Carillion. They hold several separate pension funds, the legacy of takeovers and the deficits of several of them add up to £811Million but one has a small surplus of £6million. The one with the surplus is the fund that pays the director's pensions. Frank wants to know why.......' A good and pertinent question.
I scent an air of panic in T May's voice, she is getting very shrill. I suspect this is because despite them saying they can negotiate round it like the first round, the deadlines set by the EU, particularly on Ireland, are forcing her into a corner and the Hard Brexit gang are waiting to pounce.
See THIS for one possible reason. The EU lays out the possible sanctions that could be used against a member breaking the internal customs rules. Nothing surprising about them, they are just what we would be considering if positions were reversed but Davies describes them as examples of negotiating in bad faith. We keep seeking clarity and when we get it we start crying foul!
Richard.... Where are you? We need your cool calm voice.....
Later.... Some local politics for a change. There's a very good letter in the BET complaining about the fact that the Tory candidate in the May Council elections is claiming he was the instigator of the recent successful campaign against the building of anther large development at Greenberfield. The writer says he is lying and had nothing to do with the inception or propagation of the challenge.
In another section of the paper Mr Stephenson is making much of a visit by Albatross Grayling, the Transport minister and the promise to have a feasibility study done reporting this year. To hear Mr Stephenson talk you would think he inspired the campaign, not so. True he has always supported it but this man has a reputation for jumping on bandwagons and this is no exception. I'd be more impressed if he made more mention of the history of the campaign and the work done by what has proved to be a very effective pressure group, SELRAP.
Meanwhile, we all know who is beavering away and representing us efficiently. You'll have to work out who that is for yourselves. Clue, he has been known to vacuum the Town Square!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 09 Feb 2018, 09:39

Two points here Stanley, the decision to refuse the development at Greenberfield is only a local committee one. Developers will almost certainly go to appeal and it will be some minister or lacky in London who makes the final call of whether we get over 100 houses on the heritage site. You are perfectly correct though in that the local development committee decision was nowt to do with the Tory wannabee from Earby who is standing in Coates next time.

With regard to A4A Stephenson, he told the minister that the whole length of the trackbed had been preserved and all the bridges were intact. That's OK then, the blokes on a different planet!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 09 Feb 2018, 09:55

PanBiker, I suspect what he means is that none of the track has been sold off therefore its 'intact' and all the ROAD bridges have been preserved. Very slippery with words are our MP's. I'm surprised he didn't mention all the money we saved by not having a railway can go towards rebuilding the railway that we pulled down to save money to build the railway that we pulled down. Is that clear?

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 09 Feb 2018, 10:21

plaques wrote:
09 Feb 2018, 09:55
PanBiker, I suspect what he means is that none of the track has been sold off therefore its 'intact' and all the ROAD bridges have been preserved.
Track not sold off but it has been built on in places and "claimed" for other uses by many more but that is easily solved. I can only think of one road bridge over the route or is there two, Kelbrook Road and Slipper Hill? All of the rail bridges over road and river have gone though. Like you say, talks with forked tongue. I will doing all I can to stop the weasel words.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 09 Feb 2018, 10:25

plaques wrote:
09 Feb 2018, 09:55
..all the money we saved by not having a railway can go towards rebuilding the railway that we pulled down to save money to build the railway that we pulled down. Is that clear?
Be careful saying things like that, Plaques, or you might metamorphose and wake up in bed one morning as a politician! :extrawink:

Talking of waking up, every morning I seem to have an even clearer vision of how utterly stupid it is for the UK to leave the the EU. I was pleased to see I'm not alone and Philip Aldrick, Economics Editor of the Times, devoted a weekend article to the daft claims of the brexiteers, at one point saying simply `Bonkers!' That was in relation to their fantasies that the UK can go out and sell to the world, they'll beat a path to our door etc. He points out that we are one of the minnows, world trade now is a competition between the US and Europe to stand up to China's One Belt, One Road initiative. The only way forward is for us to be in the EU.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 10 Feb 2018, 03:38

I'm aware of the dangers of appeal Ian and the track record is in favour of the developer. What does A4A mean?
I'm sure you're right Tiz but in or out of the EU we are buggered as long as we have this dysfunctional government.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 10 Feb 2018, 09:43

Stanley wrote:
10 Feb 2018, 03:38
What does A4A mean?
Andrew for Andrew
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 10 Feb 2018, 10:02

PanBiker wrote:
10 Feb 2018, 09:43
Stanley wrote:
10 Feb 2018, 03:38
What does A4A mean?
Andrew for Andrew
Wikipedia says it also stands for `Adam4Adam, a gay dating service'. :laugh5:

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 11 Feb 2018, 04:34

I like it......
As you may have gathered, I am convinced that some more rabid Tories wouldn't go into a decline if a combination of austerity and inequality dragged the 'under classes' back to 19th century status and this underlies many of the attitudes we see like opposition to 'foreigners' and inward migration. However, this doesn't fully explain the fact that our leaders ignore the mounting evidence that Brexit is taking us into a less than rosy economic future, could trigger the break-up of the United Kingdom and in the process fatally damage the Conservative Party. So the puzzle is, what is actually going on in the secretive atmosphere of the Westminster village?
I know no more than the rest of you but all my instincts and experience indicate that there is something wrong in this whole process. Leaving aside the major flaw in that this matter shouldn't be decided by one political party but by a consensus of something like the 1940 War Cabinet, all I can come up with is simple incompetence.
Calling the referendum in order to defuse a cat-fight in the Tory ranks was the first mistake. The second was to be so ignorant of EU governmental procedures that they imagined it was a straight haggle over terms and that with persistence and bloody-mindedness a deal could be hammered out that was to our advantage, two years was plenty for this!
Now, the full enormity of what they have triggered is becoming obvious. Faced with a united EU with a clear negotiating position agreed by all the members plus complexities they never even recognised they are like rabbits caught in the headlights. Desperately seeking a way to escape the worst consequences but finding they are powerless, they are in a poker game in which the EU holds all the cards.
There is a way out of this, a full U-turn, rescind the Article 150 letter and accept the fact that they will be ridiculed in ways they can't even imagine. This will not happen under this government and I have an idea that the reason all opposition parties have not directly attacked the government with a motion of No Confidence is that they want the debacle to be seen as entirely the fault of the Tories.
Nothing is impossible and it may be that a change of government before March 2019 could allow a sea change and even a withdrawal from the process but that's a very long odds bet.
What is more likely is that we do it the British Way, we bumble on, fall off the cliff edge, this triggers a change of government and we start to claw our way back into full membership over a period of years under the leadership of politicians untainted by the original decision to leave.
That's my attempt to look on the bright side as we slide towards what I think is a social, economic and political disaster. Think the crucifixion scene in Life of Brian........
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 11 Feb 2018, 09:46

As you know, ever since the Leave outcome of the EU Referendum I've believed that we will probably find ourselves unable to leave without causing a catastrophic collapse of our economy, stability and security. We would have to make our apologies for wasting so much time and money and make a rapid U-turn before Brexit and before too much damage was done. If a coalition of parties was in charge we could achieve a U-turn but instead we've got a gang of Tory Brexiteers determined to take us over the brink because they can't bear to admit that they are wrong. The other Parties meanwhile stand aside to allow the Tories to drop into the black hole when they should be saving us from this catastrophe. Instead of saving us from this black hole Labour want to divert us into a smaller one - `soft Brexit. We're all doomed, I tell you, we're all doomed Captain Mainwaring! :smile:

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 11 Feb 2018, 09:48

Stanley wrote:
11 Feb 2018, 04:34
I have an idea that the reason all opposition parties have not directly attacked the government with a motion of No Confidence is that they want the debacle to be seen as entirely the fault of the Tories.
There are two main weaknesses to this argument.
First this requires some Tories to vote with Labour something until their anatomy is restructured they will never do. Even if popular opinion polls gave them an X+ lead the last general election results has more or less knocked this on the head.
Secondly, The Opposition is struggling to find something to argue about. This is because the Tories have not offered up any sort of working plan. All we hear about is aspirations, possibilities and 'leave it to us'. No wonder Michel Barnier, the European Chief Negotiator, is getting a little more than upset at the lack of progress.
Like Dickens character Mr Micawber Always in debt yet recklessly cheery and blindly optimistic,

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 11 Feb 2018, 10:22

Looking on the bright side and democracy live, well and in action within the Labour Party. I was canvassed via a knock on the door yesterday from one of our PPC candidates, One of the two female candidates on the short list, she's from Rossendale and so far is the only candidate on the short list to ask me directly for my support at the forthcoming hustings. I noted that she also took the time to attend and greet members before our branch selection meeting (within party rules) which already gave her a few brownie points from me.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tripps » 11 Feb 2018, 11:36

That's interesting Ian. I had a similar experience at the 2015 election when Heidi Allen rang my doorbell. That's the very first time a general election candidate had ever done that. We had a nice chat - I think she was impressed that I had done my homework, and already knew she was originally from Yorkshire, had a degree in Astrophysics, had a hand in running the family business, and had managed the Royal Mail Mount Pleasant sorting office in London which she claimed to have enjoyed.

She had no minders with her, and it was a Saturday afternoon. I said I'd vote for her (it's a very safe Tory seat, so realistically it's that or abstain), if she got me two tickets for PMQ's. She said 'send me an email and we'll see'. I never did. :smile:

The gloss went off a bit (quite a lot actually), when she put herself forward to be a candidate for Mayor of Cambridge and Peterborough, saying she would remain an MP, and donate the salary to charity. Plainly ridiculous, and she wasn't selected.

I think I've just demonstrated that as seems to have happened to you, a personal call can have big effect.
Born to be mild. . .

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 11 Feb 2018, 12:23

She had a young woman with her who was comrade brolly holder. I didn't get a chance to meet her before the branch short listing meeting as it was a fleeting visit and I missed her, the potential candidates at that stage can't stay once the meeting starts but it shows willing. I got the feeling I could work for her and her biography shows that she has a proper socialist track record. It's a couple of weeks yet to the hustings and we have three candidates from within the constituency who I know already and another "off cumed un" from even further away than just over the hill, not over till the fat lady sings as they say or in actuality the vote at Colne Muni but I'm almost there.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 12 Feb 2018, 03:38

P, no need for rebels. You will note i said "all opposition parties", if they got their act together there is a majority and there is a chance you could throw the DUP in as well!
Ian, can you proxy vote for me? I missed the young lady but was impressed by a hand written addition to the flyer.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 12 Feb 2018, 10:14

There is no proxy option Stanley but you should have had an email about postal voting. The original deadline for applying for that has gone now but there is a procedure for applying for an emergency postal vote which needs to be in by the 19th at the very latest.

The original email from the CLP secretary who is procedures secretary was sent out on the 23rd December, you may be able to find it in your inbox. I will forward it to you if you anyway, you need to give a reason for asking for the postal ballot and you will need your membership number. The only other way is to attend the hustings in person on the 24th of this month. Obviously you cant do both.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 13 Feb 2018, 03:44

Ian called round yesterday and we had a nice chat.
T May has a dilemma, if she makes a speech 'clarifying her objectives' and veers one way it is Hard Brexit, if she goes the other way she triggers a reaction from the attack dogs, if she steers a middle course and obfuscates she triggers reaction from the EU. There isn't time to call an All Party conference. The only safe course is a sick note. Only the Tories could manufacture a situation like this.
Later.... Ian. Your forwarded mail arrived this morning. I have printed the forms, filled them in and sent them off to Mark Attwood.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 13 Feb 2018, 08:56

Stanley wrote:
13 Feb 2018, 03:44

T May has a dilemma
At first glance at this I read it as ' T May has dementia', I thought "Nay Stanley that's a bit harsh even for you". Anyway, back to the
dilemma. It would appear that we are on our way to having a War Cabinet. Newspaper headlines are talking about ... "Theresa May and Cabinet heavyweights to embark on Brexit PR blitz"... Link. memories of fighting the Hun all over again. Then in a couple of weeks time we will be subjected to a PR Blitz. Ref..The Prime Minister will deliver two keynote addresses over the coming weeks along with those from key Cabinet heavyweights in a bid to build a consensus on Britain’s withdrawal from the bloc. At this point we will have been 'clarified' to death and probably even more confused. Possibly 'dementia' was the right word after all.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 13 Feb 2018, 09:47

Stanley wrote:
13 Feb 2018, 03:44
Only the Tories could manufacture a situation like this.
Let's take a balanced view - any political party could get itself into such a dilemma. And the Labour Party isn't running like a well-oiled machine! :smile:

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 13 Feb 2018, 10:39

Stanley wrote:
13 Feb 2018, 03:44
Later.... Ian. Your forwarded mail arrived this morning. I have printed the forms, filled them in and sent them off to Mark Attwood.
Aye, as I said when I called, I actually sent it before I came to see you. When I got home I noticed that the email client was not working. Windows Mail gave no error and I could not see any of my mails in the sent folder. A restart sorted it out and as if by magic my outgoing mails reappeared and were marked as sent. Queer functionality in the Windows Mail client. :confused: Anyway, looks like you are sorted, from my General Committee meeting notes the other week Mark reported that the last day for receipt of postal ballots would be the 23rd.
Ian

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