Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

User avatar
Pluggy
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 1691
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:13
Location: Barnoldswick
Contact:

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Pluggy » 16 Aug 2014, 14:08

I'm surprised so many world leaders have expressed an opinion (usually urging them to stay with the union). The Aussie PM being the latest.
Pluggy's Home Monitor : http://pluggy.duckdns.org
Barlick Computers : http://barlickcomputers.co.uk

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 38758
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Stanley » 18 Aug 2014, 06:55

Alex Salmond admits that he blew it in the debate with Darling when he had no answer to the question of what currency would be used. He insists it will be the English Pound even though the Treasury has vetoed this.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 38758
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Stanley » 07 Sep 2014, 04:35

11 days before the referendum and the uncomfortable truth is that if you look at the curve of poll results, the YES campaign is on track for a narrow victory. Much head scratching in the Westminster Bubble.....
I note that the Queen was attending the Braemar Gathering yesterday. Everyone seems to have forgotten that the origin of the Gathering was on 27 August 1715 when Earl of Mar gathered the clans to announce his support for the exiled James.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 7668
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Tizer » 07 Sep 2014, 11:34

The rest off the UK is only just wakening up to the idea that the United Kingdom might be about to become a wee bit less united.

User avatar
PanBiker
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 6707
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 13:07
Location: Barnoldswick - In the West Riding of Yorkshire, always was, always will be.

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by PanBiker » 07 Sep 2014, 11:55

Caught the last comic on "Live at the Apollo" last knight which was themed on the Yes/No question. "if we vote yes, what will happen to all the Poundlands?" :laugh5:
Ian

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 38758
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Stanley » 08 Sep 2014, 05:06

Osborne looked like a comedian yesterday as he promised Scotland the earth if they stay in.... Bit late actually, he should have done it before the postal votes went out.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
chinatyke
Donor
Posts: 1441
Joined: 21 Apr 2012, 13:14
Location: Pingguo, Guangxi, China

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by chinatyke » 08 Sep 2014, 09:15

The pound is dropping like a stone on forex markets presumably because of the uncertainty of the Scotland vote. It has fallen about 6% against the Chinese yuan in the last 2 weeks. The Chinese don't need any help to become World leaders but UK leaders are playing into their hands and should realise the damage they are doing to the Union. It should be the whole of the UK that is voting on the outcome of the UK not just a few hillbillies in skirts from the north, a small minority of the UK.

User avatar
Marilyn
Senior Member
Posts: 3460
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 20:29
Location: South Australia

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Marilyn » 08 Sep 2014, 09:28

:grin: if the pound continues to drop it may mean we can afford another UK holiday!

User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 7668
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Tizer » 08 Sep 2014, 09:47

The way things are going you'll be able to buy the UK and take it home with you, Maz! :laugh5:
How bizarre that we should be thinking of breaking up the UK at a time like now, with the greatest risk of war since the days of the Cold War, heightened terrorist threats, an unstable EU economy etc. It's only now that the newspapers have started running headlines like "Last days of the UK". As usual, the media has had it's head in the London clay.

User avatar
chinatyke
Donor
Posts: 1441
Joined: 21 Apr 2012, 13:14
Location: Pingguo, Guangxi, China

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by chinatyke » 08 Sep 2014, 10:05

Marilyn wrote::grin: if the pound continues to drop it may mean we can afford another UK holiday!
That's true Maz but I'm a poor pensioner trying to eke out my pensions which are paid in GB groats and I lose out when I bring the money over here. The porridge gobblers have a lot to answer for.

User avatar
Belle
Regular User
Posts: 124
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 17:10

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Belle » 08 Sep 2014, 11:01

It is nice to see this topic being debated in a serious, thoughtful way. Having spent nearly half my life in Scotland, with much of my family still living there, it is a topic very close to my heart.
I agree that those who are Scots born and bred should have a vote, wherever they live, it is going to be very hard for ex natives to see their homeland sail off into the wide blue yonder without being able to do anything to stop if it, and I agree that most would want to.
The Yes vote propaganda has been extremely clever and most seem to have swallowed it whole, but Scotland like Ireland was initially a Catholic country so there was division between us from the moment England became protestant, and the Scots, like the Irish have used anti- English music and poetry to feed the minds of their children down all the generations, so there was fertile ground for Alex Salmond to sow his discord into.
I am not saying that they don't have a case, of course they do, they have been treated badly by successive Governments as have the north of England, the Welsh, and anywhere else that doesn't fall into London and the Home counties! Like Stanley, I think we would perhaps all be better off under a Scottish regime, and what would be the best outcome for all of us is if they stayed in the union and had much more say. But I am sad that despite, as Bruff says, they are hoping to form a more altruistic society, that altruism does not extend to the rest of the UK.
The wave of patriotism that is sweeping Scotland is hopefully enough to get them through all the difficulties ahead, but I fear it may not be, and not only will the UK be split, it will be sunk! No one seems to be seriously considering the many knock on effects to come out of a split.The pound, of course, and membership of the EU are constantly raised and no one has given any contingencies plans if neither are available.. but there are other concerns: Will Scotland be able to keep it's idyllic landscape if it has to build more industry to provide for itself? One of my family, a long term SNP voter, has decided to vote No because of the wind farm schemes Alex Salmond has proposed. What sort of politics will emerge, what is an opposition going to look like in Scotland? What will it mean for the Labour party in the depleted Uk if the large Scots vote has gone? How long will it be before other parts of Uk break away? What will Scotland do if Shetland persist in they're line that the oil off their shores is not Scottish (Shetlanders are not part of Scotland they are keen to tell you..) The No voice is barely audible, but if you have been following the grass roots debate, and witnessing the aggression that Yes voters have been exhibiting toward anyone disagreeing with them, it is not surprising.
That in itself..the fact that a country always united in their national pride is now divided by hostility, should be a warning that this can not end well if independence goes through, or maybe either way now!
Personally, like Bruff I think it is unstoppable, and if not this time, next, with even more extreme view points being taken..there is a spirit of division abroad these days, and I think a very different (not better) world will emerge when the dust settles.

plaques
Donor
Posts: 2155
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by plaques » 08 Sep 2014, 11:54

Well written Belle. The core of all the debates centre round three subjects- London, London, London. I'm not surprised that Scotland is thinking of leaving the UK.

User avatar
PanBiker
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 6707
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 13:07
Location: Barnoldswick - In the West Riding of Yorkshire, always was, always will be.

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by PanBiker » 08 Sep 2014, 12:33

Yes, a good post Belle with some very salient points. I cant help thinking that if a yes vote prevails, the terms Great Britain and the United Kingdom will cease to exist. Our island will become a little like Cyprus and we may ultimately end up with a border fence and security as exists there between the Greek and Turkish sectors. I agree with Belle in that regardless of the outcome of this vote we, (as a nation) will be considerably less than we were before.
Ian

User avatar
chinatyke
Donor
Posts: 1441
Joined: 21 Apr 2012, 13:14
Location: Pingguo, Guangxi, China

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by chinatyke » 08 Sep 2014, 13:25

PanBiker wrote:I can't help thinking that if a yes vote prevails, the terms Great Britain and the United Kingdom will cease to exist.
Yes, they should cease to be used as Great Britain includes Scotland, and UK includes GB. Will we be able to go back to saying we are from England? :laugh5:

User avatar
Pluggy
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 1691
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:13
Location: Barnoldswick
Contact:

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Pluggy » 08 Sep 2014, 14:42

A minority of the population, with a substantial share of the land mass., Hell, I'd want independance if I were a Scot. If the yes vote prevails, its going to change a lot of things, What we going to call ourselves ? 'England Wales and Northern Ireland' doesn't have quite the same ring as United Kingdom. And will The new flag (We can't really keep the 'jack') have green and a dragon in it ?. I can't help thinking that Alex Salmonds March 2016 Independance day is a pipe dream, its going to take a lot longer than 18 months to unpick Scotland from the rest of us.....
Pluggy's Home Monitor : http://pluggy.duckdns.org
Barlick Computers : http://barlickcomputers.co.uk

User avatar
chinatyke
Donor
Posts: 1441
Joined: 21 Apr 2012, 13:14
Location: Pingguo, Guangxi, China

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by chinatyke » 08 Sep 2014, 15:51

Pluggy wrote:Hell, I'd want independence if I were a Scot.
And will the new flag (We can't really keep the 'jack') have green and a dragon in it ?
Why should the Scots have the right to leave the Union? They lost that right in 1707 or even earlier. Why should they benefit from over 300 years of the Union and then be allowed to walk away Scot free? [ :geek: What is the origin of that phrase?]

Will they be treated as illegal immigrants if they hunt haggis on the English fells? :grin:

The Welsh flag is not represented on the Union Jack because Wales was already united with England in the 13th century and under Henry VIII, the Act of Union joined England and Wales officially in 1536.

User avatar
Pluggy
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 1691
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:13
Location: Barnoldswick
Contact:

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Pluggy » 08 Sep 2014, 16:10

The St George cross is so boring after the Union Jack.

With all the negative names you're calling the Scots, China, I take it you don't like them ? Or is it just because your pension isn't worth as much as it was ?

I spent 4 years of my younger life in Fife, in HM navy and I have 'Jocks' as friends (some of the 800,000 Scots who won't get to vote because they live in England). A decent 'haggis supper' is so hard to come by down here.....
Pluggy's Home Monitor : http://pluggy.duckdns.org
Barlick Computers : http://barlickcomputers.co.uk

User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 7668
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Tizer » 08 Sep 2014, 16:14

Thanks, Belle, for your substantial contribution with lots of interesting points. Right at the beginning you mentioned your Scottish family connections and that made me think how there must be so many people living in the rest of the UK who have genetic links with Scotland. Mrs Tiz's mother is a Scot, for example. Geographically the UK is several countries but genetically the population is a mixture of genes from all of them and many others too. Scotland might leave the UK but it won't undo the genetic mixing.

User avatar
chinatyke
Donor
Posts: 1441
Joined: 21 Apr 2012, 13:14
Location: Pingguo, Guangxi, China

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by chinatyke » 08 Sep 2014, 16:46

Pluggy wrote: With all the negative names you're calling the Scots, China, I take it you don't like them ?
Porridge gobblers? I've been called far worse! Sorry, it is just my sense of humour.

I am not against the Scots, just against them leaving the UK. But if they do leave then they should be treated as outsiders and given no special privileges.

User avatar
Belle
Regular User
Posts: 124
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 17:10

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Belle » 08 Sep 2014, 22:18

That kind of polarisation will be the outcome I fear, China, and you have a point, the Scots formed the union with the rest of the UK for their own economic benefit, they weren't invaded or conquered as many would have us believe, I wonder how they would be feeling now if the Uk had decided to hold a vote on whether they had a right to stay in the union, with no consultation with them at all?

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 38758
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Stanley » 09 Sep 2014, 04:02

Splendid post Belle! Covers all the bases, well balanced and very well written. Lovely to see you joining in.
"a few hillbillies in skirts" Oh dear....
The main Tory spokesmen, Cameron and Osborne have done more for the YES campaign than anyone else. Their whole attitude has been lacking in passion and in some cases puerile, especially the late flood of bribes. The whole of the NO campaign has been overlaid by the fact that mistrust of politicians has never been as great as it is now. Nobody can call the result but one thing is certain, Scottish Independence will happen, if not now but in the near future. It is a step in the dark and on the positive side could lead to a completely different political alignment in England. God knows we need something different than we have now.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Belle
Regular User
Posts: 124
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 17:10

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Belle » 09 Sep 2014, 12:37

I am beginning to wonder, now that is has been revealed that Cameron narrowed the ballot down to just two options, YES or NO, when Salmond wanted a third..that proposed yesterday...that the whole thing has not been an attempt by the Tory party to get rid of Labour forever,and the SNP are just pawns in his game. Risky!

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 38758
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Stanley » 10 Sep 2014, 03:49

Belle, very perceptive. I believe you are right and this was a consideration. You are right, it is risky and from what I can pick up from comments in Scotland it is very much an anti-Tory vote. Even Scottish Labour members are defying the English party line and switching to YES for the same reason. One thing that is emerging is the 'if they can have it why can't we' line from voters in the rest of the UK.
I'm beginning to think that the YES vote can win and that this is going to have an enormous effect on English politics. There is as much anti-Tory feeling here as evidenced by UKIP. Interesting times!
Interesting debate on Woman's Hour on the subject. Vehement repudiation of the way that the NO campaign has treated women and the use of the fear factor. The tack has changed now as Cameron ditches threats and goes for emotion. Unfortunately he's very bad at it! I think they have blown it.....
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 7668
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Tizer » 10 Sep 2014, 09:20

Perhaps we just wait until the Yes voters win and then we say, "Right, you can go and take everything you want with you but on condition we can all come too!" ("Oh, and one other condition - Alex Salmond has to step down".)

Have a look at this BBC News page. It's about the question `What might a Scottish defence force look like' but scroll to the bottom of the page and you'll find links to a lot of other questions about the Scottish referendum:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-29135269

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 38758
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Stanley » 11 Sep 2014, 05:16

Only one thing is certain, whatever the result of the vote things will never be the same again. The Law of Unintended Consequences will go into overdrive! Dev Max for the North of England?
The bottom line is that the Great Wen has had too much power and has run the rest of the country like colonies for far too long. Some people say that history has nothing to do with it but they are wrong, just one example from the recent past, where did Thatcher experiment with the Poll Tax? Go back further and look at absentee landlords and the Clearances. Remember Toto Wolff, the insanity of the bubble.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

Post Reply

Return to “Current Affairs & Comment”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users