Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Stanley » 12 Sep 2014, 04:54

Interesting that at the last minute, just as though realisation has dawned, the big money men have stepped in and issued dire warnings about the consequences of a YES vote next week. A bit like the bankers threatening to leave the UK if they are regulated, I think that they are largely crying wolf. Salmond evidently thinks the same and has struck back at the London institutions and media alleging that there is a conspiracy. He could have a point!
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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by plaques » 12 Sep 2014, 17:53

If the Spice Girls come out on the No vote side then I know things are getting really serious.

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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Whyperion » 12 Sep 2014, 18:14

If Scotland goes independent (and takes a large labour supporting chunk of Westminster Seats with it), and gets into the EU, would it be more likely that UKIP would be a greater force in England (possibly given that lack of funding for front line police and other services that torydom is allowing to happen), with England potentially leaving the EU. Might be interesting ,problem is with a NO vote , aside from some further devoultion promises there will not be that much change to future UK politics, with Westminster minority governments probably continuing to be the norm for a good few years to come.

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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Stanley » 15 Sep 2014, 04:57

Interesting comment on BBC World Service this morning from Kurdistan. The Kurds are quite puzzled by the fact that a country, Scotland in this case, can get independence without violence. They’ve got a point, we have a lot to be thankful for!
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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Tizer » 15 Sep 2014, 09:00

A Scottish comedian on the radio said he would vote `No' because he doesn't want to have to sport a haircut like Alex Salmond's. Now, that's not just a joke, it's also a very interesting comment and, for me, sums up Salmond. He's trying to make Scotland suit himself and to put himself in a position to be important but doing it all under the guise of being something for `the people of Scotland'. I'll never forget the report about one of the Scottish elections where he listed himself on the ballot papers not as `Alex Salmond, Scottish National Party' but as `Alex Salmond, `Alex Salmond Party'.

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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by plaques » 15 Sep 2014, 09:02

I knew that the Spice Girls would get into the act. Could it be that 'Posh' has influenced David Beckham?
"Soccer star David Beckham made an appeal to sports fans, writing in an open letter that he was proud to play for the U.K. Olympic team and “saw that same pride and passion in every Scottish player and fan whenever we played each other.” He warned the decision would have a “huge effect,” but said it wasn’t for him to tell Scots how to vote."

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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Belle » 15 Sep 2014, 14:02

As someone pointed out, this decision, if it splits the UK, will have long lasting far reaching effects for our children and grandchildren...except for Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon...who don't have any!

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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Bodger » 15 Sep 2014, 16:21


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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Stanley » 16 Sep 2014, 04:27

I like it Bodge.... and that's about the size of it. There is going to be a big realignment whatever the vote is and I see nothing wrong in that. High time England was dragged kicking and screaming out of the 19th century.
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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Bruff » 16 Sep 2014, 09:02

The impressive thing for me in all of this exercise is the vim with which the Scottish people have engaged on the issue. Turnout is expected to be very, very high indeed and venues up and down the country (down to the village halls) have hosted passionate meetings and debates. Person after person comes on the tele and says they've gone and 'read' about or 'researched' an issue or a claim and then made up their own minds. We could do with more of that.

I also sense that whatever the outcome on the vote, there's an inevitability to Scottish independence. The UK is increasingly an indecent place. Behaviour of politics, of the media, of many institutions lacks any common decency. How can anyone hack the 'phone of a missing then murdered child for, let's not beat about the bush, 'profit'? How can anyone crack jokes in debates on food banks, or cheer manically a budget consigning many to harder times? This rot spreads. The poor, the sick and disabled are scapegoated and stigmatised; the rich are lauded. Being rich is synonymous with being good, being poor with being bad. We are snooped on, subjected to surveillance, with more CCTV cameras here than all the rest of Europe put together, more in Basingstoke than the whole of New York. We have an unelected part of legislative Government where on recent evidence it seems if you cough up enough you can get your reward; the heads of the church sit in this chamber, a distinction we share only with Iran. And as I was reminded of the other day, your MP and mine swears allegiance not to the electorate or their constituents, but to the head of a family deemed for reasons unfathomable to me, intrinsically better than 'us'. I could go on....and on.

But increasing number of the Scottish people do not share first these views, which seems to me a largely English trait, and second question the accepted institutions and their operations. It seems inevitable then to me that in time, these people must obtain their own State.

Richard Broughton

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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Pluggy » 16 Sep 2014, 11:02

As an Englishman, I want Scotland to stay, but if I were a Scot, I'd vote for independance.
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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by chinatyke » 17 Sep 2014, 02:52

Pluggy wrote:As an Englishman, I want Scotland to stay, but if I were a Scot, I'd vote for independence.
Me too, quite a dilemma.

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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Stanley » 17 Sep 2014, 04:34

I agree completely with Richard and believe that we in England will also gain whatever the result of the vote tomorrow. The tectonic plates are shifting and about time!
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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by chinatyke » 19 Sep 2014, 03:37

My Chinese wife has been taking an intense interest in the Scottish campaign. At first her comment was "Why don't your government tell Scotland they cannot go independent? That's what the government would do in China." This was followed by a brief introduction to Democracy vs CPC. Communism can be a good thing and I'm not knocking it, at least the ruling members do what they are paid to do.
Now she is watching the votes being counted via the Daily Mail site http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... unced.html
She is happy that the No votes are in the lead, currently 55%. So am I, the pound is soaring again, might be able to afford a couple of pints by tonight!

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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Nolic » 19 Sep 2014, 06:27

Scotland remains part of the UK. Salmond should now do the decent thing and resign as first minister - particularly as his own constituency voted No. Nolic
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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by PanBiker » 19 Sep 2014, 06:51

Not sure if that will be the case but one thing is for sure UK politics will never be the same again. As Stanley says, interesting times. As an old politico it is encouraging to see the positive signs of opening up the vote to the over 16's who seem to have engaged positively in the debate and issues raised. Statisticians will be in orgasm over the data crunching possibilities from the data set which could have yielded even more information if the third question had been left in. I had to watch until about 2am when the first few results came in and was back up, (sleep still on Greek time) at 6am for the result. Bring it on, it's a fascinating process and it will be interesting to see how they make the constitutional changes necessary in the parliamentary time remaining before the next general election.
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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Stanley » 19 Sep 2014, 07:19

Ian, I reckon the first thing we'll see is the Tory led Coalition trying to limit what additional powers they devolve to Edinburgh. If they do start haggling it will be a big mistake.
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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Tizer » 19 Sep 2014, 09:50

Nolic wrote:Scotland remains part of the UK. Salmond should now do the decent thing and resign as first minister - particularly as his own constituency voted No. Nolic
Someone on the radio this morning said he thought this was the final decision, there wouldn't be a Yes result in any future version of the referendum. His main reason was that the economic environment was changing in a way that would make an independent Scotland less attractive for Scots. I think he missed an important point. If Alex Salmond were to be taken out of the equation and he was replaced by a man or woman who could work out the strategies and plans in advance instead of blundering ahead ignoring all the obstacles, then many of the present No voters might change their tune and the present Yes voters would grab the opportunity again. Salmond is hailed as the man who almost got independence for Scotland but I think he is also the one who lost the opportunity by putting off those whose head ruled over their heart. Also, a better candidate than Salmond would talk about improving the future prospects for us all, rather than just Scotland.

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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Nolic » 19 Sep 2014, 15:29

Salmond has gone up ever so slightly in my estimation .http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29277527 Nolic
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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Stanley » 20 Sep 2014, 05:22

Comrade, I thought so as well. However, the campaign and the result have had effects far beyond Scotland and we are in for a very interesting period in politics. The main feature of this at the moment is that the argument in Westminster is not governed by what is best for the country but pure party advantage. The Tories have seen the opportunity to neutralise Labour by preventing their Scottish MPs from voting on English matters. This is the wrong place to start on any readjustment of the system. They should start by looking at what the English electorate wants and in that respect Milliband's convention idea looks sensible. After all, they let the Scots decide!
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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Tizer » 20 Sep 2014, 10:34

An interesting side note on the voting statistics is that those with less education tended to vote Yes and those with more education to vote No. Heart versus head.

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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Stanley » 21 Sep 2014, 05:05

Two things caught my attention.... Godron is looking very statesmanlike and credible, bit like John Major. I can't help wondering what sort of a Labour leader he'd make...
World Service programme on trending this morning examined the role of social media in the referendum. They analysed the traffic and came to the conclusion that if a poll had been based on the traffic it would have given over 75% for YES. In other words, the YES campaign made much more use of social media than the NO groups.
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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Nolic » 21 Sep 2014, 06:38

Salmond's back bellyaching now after his 24 hours of magnanimity. Horrible man. Nolic
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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Stanley » 21 Sep 2014, 07:57

Comrade, he's a politician!
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Re: Dangers of Scotland leaving the UK

Post by Big Kev » 21 Sep 2014, 09:44

Tizer wrote:An interesting side note on the voting statistics is that those with less education tended to vote Yes and those with more education to vote No. Heart versus head.
How were they defining "more" or "less" education? Were the older generation defined as having "more" education because they have been alive longer or, was it based on education standard?
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