The Referendum.

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The Referendum.

Post by plaques » 08 Mar 2016, 22:16

The Referendum. A Jaundiced view.

As a street gang the ‘Troys’ appeared rather benign. No shell trousers, shaven heads (other than natural) or tattoos, all dressed in neat suits, designer ties and with their shirts tucked into their trousers they looked the image of proprietary and respectability. The leader, known by his initials ‘D C’ liked to look tough by stretching his stiff upper lip over his teeth. Something he had learnt in the school playground. They had come to prominence after they had joined up with a smaller gang known as the ‘Lobs’, a name derived from the fact that they tended to jettison any promises they make. The aptly named ‘Niko’, the leader of the Lobs, blew it early on by mugging the younger gang members of their university beer money. The Troys number two, ‘Osse’, an ex-builder, rose to the task of mending the roofs on the tenement blocks. The idea was relatively simple; he would get the tenants to pay for the repairs by grabbing their money before they received it. On the surface all was going well. The down town big boys were quite happy with the situation as long as they didn’t interfere with the numbers game at the banks or start talking about equality for the plebs.
Things rumbled on until the next dividend share out. A large proportion of the Troys weren’t content with selling the family silver they wanted the complete caboodle. D C started to make rash promises that he would have another look at it after he had done a bit of arm twisting with Jonnie Foreigner. Meanwhile the local opposition, the ‘Combi’ gang from across the tracks, had elected a new leader. A 1960s throw back with a ban the bomb style beard. It wouldn’t have mattered if he had tried to do a fashion make over; D C had planted a number of sleeper agents who would do the old ‘et tu, Brute’ bit at the drop of a Telegraph.
It was at this moment it all turned pear shaped. The native cunning of Jonnie Foreigner outmanoeuvred D C but with typical politeness always referred to him by his full title ‘Monsieur D C A Moron.’ The ‘Grabbit’ faction, now supported by big ‘Boro’, started to turn nasty, making a big issue against any new street gang sneaking into the area especially those who weren’t born here. The fact that they had been encouraged to come for their cheapo labour was OK as long as they didn’t stop. This sneaky bunch were re-enforced by another bunch who are pleading they are being hard done to. Just because Troys buddies across the pond had reduced their cities to rubble and supported nasty extremist to murder them isn’t a valid enough reason for them to be here. The Troys; split down the middle with both sides calling each other names and pulling faces are trying their best to convince the Plebs they know what they are taking about. Meanwhile, Ossie, still on the roof, throwing down the odd toffee to keep them quiet is really after the gang leaders job. Short of any real plan, the best fall back position is to rely on their pamphleteers to blame it all on the Combi gang.
Slightly confusing but that’s how it is.

That should have upset most people!

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Re: The Referendum.

Post by Stanley » 09 Mar 2016, 04:12

Brilliant P. You would have made a good writer for Monty Python....
Can we please have the real story behind the Rees Mogg please...... Pretty please.....
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Re: The Referendum.

Post by PanBiker » 09 Mar 2016, 09:55

Speaking of which, and in the same spirit:

Title: The Peasants
From: Monty Python and the Holy Grail
Transcribed By: Malcolm Dickinson ( CLARINET@YALEVM.BITNET )


Arthur and his trusty servant Patsy "ride" into a field where peasants are
working. They come up behind a cart which is being dragged by a hunched-over
peasant in ragged clothing. Patsy slows as they near the cart.

Arthur: Old Woman!

The peasant turns around, revealing that he is in fact a man.

Man: Man!
Arthur: Man, sorry.... What knight lives in that castle over there?
Man: I'm thirty-seven!
Arthur: (surprised) What?
Man: I'm thirty-seven! I'm not old--
Arthur: Well I can't just call you "man"...
Man: Well you could say "Dennis"--
Arthur: I didn't know you were called Dennis!
Man: Well, you didn't bother to find out, did you?!
Arthur: I did say sorry about the "old woman", but from behind, you looked--
Man: Well I object to your...you automatically treat me like an inferior!
Arthur: Well I *am* king...
Man: Oh, king, eh, very nice. And 'ow'd you get that, eh?
(he reaches his destination and stops, dropping the cart)
By exploiting the workers! By 'angin' on to outdated imperialist dogma
which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society.
If there's ever going to be any progress,--
Woman: Dennis! There's some lovely filth down 'ere!
(noticing Arthur) Oh! 'Ow'd'ja do?
Arthur: How do you do, good lady. I am Arthur, king of the Britons. Whose
castle is that?
Woman: King of the 'oo?
Arthur: King of the Britons.
Woman: 'Oo are the Britons?
Arthur: Well we all are! We are all Britons! And I am your king.
Woman: I didn't know we 'ad a king! I thought we were autonomous collective.
Man: (mad) You're fooling yourself! We're living in a dictatorship! A
self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes--
Woman: There you go, bringing class into it again...
Man: That's what it's all about! If only people would--
Arthur: Please, *please*, good people, I am in haste! WHO lives in that
castle?
Woman: No one lives there.
Arthur: Then who is your lord?
Woman: We don't have a lord!
Arthur: (surprised) What??
Man: I *told* you! We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune! We're taking
turns to act as a sort of executive-officer-for-the-week--
Arthur: (uninterested) Yes...
Man: But all the decisions *of* that officer 'ave to be ratified at a
special bi-weekly meeting--
Arthur: (perturbed) Yes I see!
Man: By a simple majority, in the case of purely internal affairs--
Arthur: (mad) Be quiet!
Man: But by a two-thirds majority, in the case of more major--
Arthur: (very angry) BE QUIET! I *order* you to be quiet!
Woman: "Order", eh, 'oo does 'e think 'e is?
Arthur: I am your king!
Woman: Well I didn't vote for you!
Arthur: You don't vote for kings!
Woman: Well 'ow'd you become king then?
(holy music up)
Arthur: The Lady of the Lake-- her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite,
held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by
divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why
I am your king!
Man: (laughingly) Listen: Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords
is no basis for a system of government! Supreme executive power
derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some... farcical
aquatic ceremony!
Arthur: (yelling) BE QUIET!
Man: You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some
watery tart threw a sword at you!!
Arthur: (coming forward and grabbing the man) Shut *UP*!
Man: I mean, if I went 'round, saying I was an emperor, just because some
moistened bink had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!
Arthur: (throwing the man around) Shut up, will you, SHUT UP!
Man: Aha! Now we see the violence inherent in the system!
Arthur: SHUT UP!
Man: (yelling to all the other workers) Come and see the violence inherent
in the system! HELP, HELP, I'M BEING REPRESSED!
Arthur: (letting go and walking away) Bloody PEASANT!
Man: Oh, what a giveaway! Did'j'hear that, did'j'hear that, eh? That's
what I'm all about! Did you see 'im repressing me? You saw it,
didn't you?!
Ian

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Re: The Referendum.

Post by Tizer » 09 Mar 2016, 10:50

Oh what joy, good old-fashioned satire lives on! More, more! :cool4:
And I think Plaques should be funded by Lottery money to write for the nation.

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Re: The Referendum.

Post by plaques » 09 Mar 2016, 11:00

Bring back Monty Python. I've always wondered where the 'divine' right of Kings came from. Except for the odd usurpation we are well and truly stuck in the heredity hand me down. When DNA analysis was invented almost immediately there was a law stopping people asking for analysis without the owners permission. I wonder why?

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Re: The Referendum.

Post by Stanley » 10 Mar 2016, 05:02

Perhaps they might have found out that there was no such thing as Blue Blood......
I know a bloke who was offered a job on the early writing team working for Monty Python but refused the opportunity.... He once told me that he often looks back and mentally kicked himself.
See Bob's bits for an interesting slant on Monty Python......
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Re: The Referendum.

Post by Stanley » 11 Mar 2016, 04:55

Come on P..... Give us your version of Ossie's thought processes. (If he has any.....)
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Re: The Referendum.

Post by plaques » 19 Mar 2016, 21:46

The Referendum (part Two)

The date for the punch up had been set for the 23 June. At first sight this looked like a typical street brawl but with D Cs cock-up on negotiations with Jonnie Foreigner it has morphed into a complete war. Initially it looked like the Troys would win hands down but now with the intervention Boro the tables have been turned. D C is now scrambling about trying to get other armies on his side. The final line up appears to be D C for the Troys, Tiny Tim for the Lobs and reluctantly, him who shall not be mentioned, for the Combi. Although Ossie is generally recognized as being second in command for the Troys there is a suspicion that he is doing a bit of ‘Privateering’ positioning himself as a plausible cheer leader no matter which side wins although his pal, the quiet one, has just pulled the rug from under his feet. A quick calculation of number of canon fodder troops they can muster left them severely undermanned. The new Combi leader, who nobody wants to talk to, said he would join their ‘IN’ campaign but had some reservation about its future direction. Unfortunately, being situated at the other side of the tracks and D Cs reluctance to answer straight questions doesn’t help in the trust department. Combi’s number two is sceptical of D C’s Machiavellian motives and is suspicious of the fact that once the battle has started D C’s army would melt away and blame Combi for the failure.

Against these three armies Boro’s ‘Grabbits’, are still marshalling their troops. Casting round for some big hitters. Their attempt to recruit Boadicea Bess came unstuck big style. Also, with amazing chutzpah they told America’s No1 to keep his nose out. A suicidal gambit since they would have to rely on him for any future trade. This has left them bottom fishing amongst ex-Troys supporters and a few Combi sleepers.

The battlefield has now been set with D C taking the high ground, albeit on the reverse slope, so avoiding any direct hits and with the distant Combi still negotiating an agreement with D C before the real battle begins they seem to have been forgotten altogether. This situation suits Boro, who is marching gallantly up the valley looking for a head to head with D C but afterwards to turn on Combi which hopefully will be a much easier task. So far only a few ranging shots have been fired with both D C and Boro beating drums and waving flags at each other trying to scare the cannon fodder to death.

Sorry if this sounds a little like Waterloo all over again but that’s how I see it.

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Re: The Referendum.

Post by Stanley » 20 Mar 2016, 03:47

Only difference is we won Waterloo but whatever happens here we look like losers....
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Re: The Referendum.

Post by plaques » 20 Mar 2016, 09:49

Waterloo was a very close run thing. Without the intervention of General Blücher of the Prussian army it is doubtful if Wellington could have won. Blücher. This fact was recognized at the time by naming various streets after him. Blücher St: in Burnley is now part of St James St: but Colne still has a Blücher St: After the referendum I doubt if we shall see a Corbyn St:

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Re: The Referendum.

Post by Stanley » 21 Mar 2016, 04:17

Or a Cameron or Osborne Street.....
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Re: The Referendum.

Post by Sue » 22 Mar 2016, 07:09

There used to be a Widdup street in Burnley. I often wonder why. It was in the area where John Widdup was politically active but he was a bit of a political failure.
If you keep searching you will find it

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Re: The Referendum.

Post by Stanley » 23 Mar 2016, 05:04

Quite often a reference to the builder's name Sue.
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Re: The Referendum.

Post by Bruff » 07 Apr 2016, 08:27

The Government leaflet that’s about to drop through our doors and which makes the case for remaining in the EU is causing some fuss and bother. Goodness knows why. The Government’s policy is to remain in the EU and so the civil service, which advises, facilitates and enacts policy, quite correctly produces material like this in support of Government policy. This is all very straightforward and how things have worked in this country for goodness knows how long. It’s really funny folk banging on about British sovereignty, Brussels telling us this and that, then not having the first clue how things work here

That said, it is one reason why I have never been a supporter of refendums. During a general election the business of Government ends in effect and the civil service simply keeps things ticking over. There is during a general election, no Government and so no policies for the civil service to advise etc. on. The civil service does not, at all, get involved in this circumstance.

By contrast during a referndum the business of Government continues and is absolutely right that the Government’s case on a referendum is made with public money. I happen to think that’s unfair, but then I haven’t been banging about having a refendum. I have made my views on Europe and the EU clear in the way I’ve voted in a general election i.e. not for a party that offers a blinkin’ referendum! Now we have a Government that promised a referndum it’s hilarious that folk are moaning about how the process works. Surely they’ve known this?

Still, ask a Brexiter what say their plans are for the negotiation of a trade deal with Canada on for example services and they’ll have no clue or mutter something that translates as essentially ‘well they’ll jolly well shape up; they have the Queen’s head on their money don’t you know’. They can’t even agree on what the plans are for the future if we do exit – one lot (the Tory-outers and their followers esentially) seem to want access to the EU’s single market, or at least a free-trade deal with them; the other lot (Farage and his crowd) don’t want any of that at all and a total break with Europe. So whatever the ‘facts’ of the Government leaflet, best of luck getting any facts from these two showers given they are poles apart.

He whole thing’s a complete and utter shambles.

Still, I was reading something the other day and it seems that Wirral where I live is one of the most pro-EU parts of the UK (it was a map of the UK with support for the EU colour-coded). Thnking about it, I imagine this is due to, in no particular order, factors such as: the amount of EU structural funds that have found their way to the very deprived parts. The dramatic improvement in the cleanliness of the Mersey (and the Dee) driven by EU standards. The plethora of ‘blue flag’ beaches driven by the same. The presence of significant employers such as Unilever (who will employ very many EU scientists at their labs in Port Sunlight). The Liverpool-based Universities (and Chester) which similarly employ huge numbers of EU academics and attract EU students and enable home students to study as a a part of their courses in the EU. The risks to all of this on leaving are all I imagine of concern. And perhaps too there is the more general impression that well, Merseyside (particularly Liverpool) has generally looked out to sea rather than over its back to the rest of Britain.

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Re: The Referendum.

Post by Tizer » 07 Apr 2016, 09:28

Thanks for all that, Richard. I, too, believe it's part of the government's job to be telling me what is best for the UK at a time like this. And likewise I don't want referendums, I voted them in to make the decisions.

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Re: The Referendum.

Post by Stanley » 08 Apr 2016, 04:08

Thank you Richard for putting that so well and Tiz for agreeing with you. I think exactly the same way but am always aware that I might be wrong and perhaps there is a case for referenda. But then I look back at history and compare the results obtained when a government accepts responsibility and takes decisions with what happens when they haven't the internal strength to do that. The shining example is of course the 1940 to 1945 War Coalition.
I have argues consistently that the situation we faced in 2008 was directly comparable with war-time. It was just as serious and longer lasting. That was the time to sink party dogma and pull together but unfortunately we got the worst combination possible, a half way house which shed responsibility as fast as it could. This referendum is a natural result of that weak governance, if it all goes wrong the 'Not me Guv!' argument can be deployed.
My assessment is that the unfortunate length of campaigning time is going to lead to more and more hysterical statements, the already confused/ill-informed public will become even more confused and either abstain or at best vote for the status quo. It will be very little to do with rational debate and reasoned argument.
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Re: The Referendum.

Post by Stanley » 12 Apr 2016, 04:16

I got my copy of the infamous government leaflet yesterday giving the reasons why we should stay in the EU. I did them the courtesy of reading it but can't for the life of me believe that it will have any influence on the vote. Of course I may be wrong but how many people will actually take the trouble? A bargain at £9million......?
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Re: The Referendum.

Post by PanBiker » 12 Apr 2016, 07:56

So did I and I have read it also, it is what it is, nowt in there that I am not already aware of. There is a bit of a debate going on over in local Facebook land regarding what should be done about it. Many are advocating sending it back. I have tried to point out that we, the taxpayers have already paid for it's production and delivery which is now water under the bridge. Sending it back will just compound the error of more cost to the taxpayer and is the last thing that you should really do. No one has yet suggested hanging it in the smallest room, Barlickers must be more discerning in that respect as although it's about the right size, the Tories have printed it on shiny paper, DOH!
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Re: The Referendum.

Post by Tizer » 12 Apr 2016, 09:58

No leaflet here yet. It'll be interesting to see if we ever get one. We sometimes miss out on things because the people who distribute them don't bother coming down our lane. And they probably think people here might mistake it for a vote on whether to stay in England or not!

Your mention of loo paper reminded me of listening to a great programme on Radio 4 about Britain's first nuclear powered submarines. About half a dozen former crew members of Valiant and Dreadnought were gathered together by Sue MacGregor to tell their stories and it was both interesting and entertaining. They had a lot of learning to do. One of them was put in charge of victualling but thought it only meant foodstuffs. They were part way through a mission in somewhere like the Indian Ocean when he had to announce on the tannoy system that he'd made a mistake and hadn't ordered more loo rolls. He told them "I'm sorry, there's enough for one roll per man but we've got two more months to go before the end of the mission. You'll have to take care to make your roll last. And don't forget - each sheet has two sides".

You can hear the programme here: LINK
"Joining Sue to discuss the building and early days of the first British nuclear submarines are six of the men who designed and worked on them - Admiral Peter (`Spam') Hammersley, David Wixon, John Jacobsen, Bas Bowyer, Harry Brazier and Wally Whymark. They recall the early teething problems, life underwater, and Cold War espionage."

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Re: The Referendum.

Post by Stanley » 13 Apr 2016, 04:13

We listen to the same programmes Tiz.... 'The Reunion' is usually a very interesting programme.
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Re: The Referendum.

Post by Bruff » 14 Apr 2016, 08:33

Privately-educated former City commodities broker, eight times failed Parliamentary candidate, Member of the European Parliament, leader of a political party and leader of one of the two main ‘vote leave’ groups, man-of-the-people and all-round anti-establishment, mould-breaking non-traditional politico (apparently!) Mr Farage continues to plough his lonely furrow of abject failure. ‘Grassroots Out’ has been pipped at the post as the main ‘out’ grouping by ‘Vote Leave’. So instead of the aforementioned Mr Farage and the likes of Mr Galloway on our screens in the main it will be Messrs Johnson and Gove. Difficult to know who to admire most with these two: Boris who gave up the name and details of a journalist to his friend Darius Guppy so he (Guppy) could go and beat him up (to be fair to Boris, he did ask that the beating wouldn’t be too serious….). Or Mr Gove who, according to the former Hon Member for Yeovil Mr Laws in a recent book, the PM sees as a Maoist and eventually had to sack as he was so appallingly toxic at education.

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Re: The Referendum.

Post by PanBiker » 14 Apr 2016, 08:57

The 'Vote Leave' lot are having a public meeting at the Civic Hall in Barlick on the 26th April at 7.00pm. I might go, a good shouting match can be quite good fun. Should I take my wooden spoon?
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Re: The Referendum.

Post by Bruff » 14 Apr 2016, 10:35

Good, I’m glad public meetings like this are being held. There’s none I’m aware of arranged round me, but I image they’ll come. I’ll be popping along.

Is the local MP popping along? He’s for ‘leave’ isn’t he. I’m sure you could whip out your spoon and ask him a few choice questions……

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Re: The Referendum.

Post by Tripps » 14 Apr 2016, 11:15

I recall at the 1975 referendum I voted for 'remain' because Tony Benn was for 'leave'. I believe that Corbyn was of the same opinion at the time. Without taxing my brain too much - I figured that the opposite of what he thought, was probably the right direction to go. I heard on R4 this morning that many others did the same. I'll stick to the same method this time. :smile:
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Re: The Referendum.

Post by Whyperion » 15 Apr 2016, 01:00

Delivered as part of a junk mail contract by a royal mail operative the A5 landscape leaflet had came to us around our bit of SW London with a Specsavers (larger in height) leaflet loose inserted at the centre fold. Having more important (really) things on my mind I have not read the leaflet, I doubt it will give me full information to make a decision, Generally I am with Corbyn, a properly reformed EU could be beneficial for all current EU ( and prospective EU ) countries, but the Free-marketeer in me knows that economically the best deal is for non-barrier trade with all of the world- basically economically the EU is meaningless, Politically, it had its uses, for the future I'm not certain what should be best - certainly there are some EU institutions that do not serve the best interests of the UK and the ways of influencing on a daily basis the make up of the parliament and commission are highly fraught with getting sensible directives enacted.

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