Coronavirus (Covid19) Corner

[Whyperion]

Plenty to consider in the Covid Corner , but information changes more frequently than daily.

a few thoughts.

Would it be desirable (at least in western countries) to do follow up blood tests say 7 days after a vaccine injection.
did the A-Z trials have any experience of blood clots - and if so were they put down to statistically no different from the expected values in any given population.
Given that Pfizer appears also to have a blood clot reaction (but less so - but that might be Pfizer came on stream first and mainly went to older people), is the causation - if there is an attibutable cause, the protein mimicking used changing something in the body, are they both immune systems reacting in a different way (when combined with certain hormones). Is there a pattern vs blood type ? Can the information suggest possible causes of the blood clots in general populations - and as a covid itself symptom - does this actually provide a means to create a prevention treatment relating to platlets in the wrong way in the wrong place ?

[Tizer]

Maz, the 700,000 AZ shipment was mentioned the other day on radio news here although it took place in late February. I can't find much about it on the web and what I did find seemed to be mostly recycled from Aussie sources. The EU clamped down on exports of vaccine because they had such a big shortage. I don't know any more. I'm not sure it was really `secret', perhaps just done as a routine shipment without any fanfare?

[Marilyn]

Two shipments. One in Feb, one in March. Both confirmed ( how can your government ship these when your own people were in such need at the time?) I shall try to attach evidence, it is on BBC, but I don’t know how to attach it.
In no way do I mean this anything on your government. I want to know where these precious doses have gone, because I tell you, we are sadly lacking, and the pallet knife comes out every day to smooth over the Covid icing. Many. Of us are getting sick of the excuses. We don’t mind waiting ( I have always maintained that...we would rather needy folk get it first) but things are becoming sadly lacking here. Questions really need answering.
If you don’t have frontline people fully vaccinated, how do you propose that life can be any better for the rest of us? And how can you open the country to the world?
They tried to establish a “bubble” to New Zealand. It hasn’t worked. No bookings! We are too terrified to travel!

[PanBiker]

If it's on a website, just copy the URL and paste it into a post. Better ways of doing it but that is the most straightforward.

[Big Kev]

I don't think we've ever been 'short' of the AZ vaccine in the UK, the EU had shortages but I believe that was down to them not getting their order in. We now have the Moderna along with Pfizer as well.
There's a story in the Telegraph, about the 700000 vaccines, from April 8th. The article does mention UK vaccine shortages which looks to be a reference to an article from 18th March. Latest figures show the UK's vaccine programme is going well and on track.
The Telegraph article is here
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/0 ... -shortage/

[Stanley]

A lady of my acquaintance who has had both vaccinations had Covid like symptoms and we have had a nervous couple of days. Her test came back negative but she is being cautious and isolating until the symptoms subside. Could be some sort of long Covid I suppose.

[Whyperion]

there were a few 'bumps in the road' on the UK AZ supplies, a mix of batch testing and approval, glass receptacles production for fill and finish, batch brewing and movement. Nothing in itself that became an actual problem, but could have done if resolution had not been timely.

[Big Kev]

For the fourth day in a row the UK has administered over 400,000 second jabs, latest figures show that of the 39,587,893 vaccinations administered in the UK so far, 32,121,353 were first doses and 7,466,540 were second doses. A record total of 475,230 second doses were administered on Saturday - along with 111,109 first doses. On Friday, 450,136 second doses and 106,878 first doses were received. The first dose figures were predicted to be lower throughout April but there looks to be ample for second doses.
There were 1,730 new infections recorded in the past 24 hours and a further seven deaths within 28 days of a positive test. That is the lowest daily death toll by this measure since 14 September 2020. However, there can be a lag in reporting coronavirus statistics during weekends. (Figures from the BBC)
The NHS are doing a grand job.

[Marilyn]

We have only managed less than 1.2 million first doses...( no second doses). Dismal

[Stanley]

I'll second that Kev. I get my second jab tomorrow at the Park Road surgery. Only a five minute walk....

[Marilyn]

Talk of needing a patient to sign a consent for for Astra Zeneca. Get lost! Ain’t gonna happen! ( you keep smoothing the icing over telling me it is safe...buggared if I am gonna let you get off scot free if it isn’t!)

[Whyperion]

M's last two posts seem mutually contradictory, If Marilyn is under 55 I might have a small concern for her, there appears no risk of significance for AZ beyond that, and the risk vs Covid catching risk seems even smaller. I assume as comfort to relatives there is a vaccine indemnity program that pays compensation in the event of death or serious injury.

[Marilyn]

I am 61, Whyperion, and happy to put my arm out for the jab. But I shall not sign a consent for absolving anyone of responsibility if I suffer because of a vaccine went wrong. Chances are it WONT...but why should I consent to waive my rights if it doesn’t?
A grey area, I agree, but I don’t seek to put this foreign substance in my body ( I do it for a greater good)....if the government can’t guarantee my safety, I will not absolve them of responsibility.
I know we sign consents for procedures such as surgery or anaesthetics etc, after being told the risks. It is a CHOICE we make. I refuse to waive those rights for something my government touts as safe and necessary.

Keep in mind that legally, offering your arm for a blood test or for medication, is a sign of consent that you are willing to proceed. I am willing to do that. Why the signed consent?

[plaques]

If anyone invades your body, procedure, operation, drugs or even Sunday newspaper stuff, they need your agreement to do so. If the outcome goes wrong then litigation may be in order to prove neglect. I don't think you have totally waved all your rights but it could be very expensive to prove otherwise.

[Marilyn]

Happy to sign after the jab to say I have had it.
That should be good enough.
I will not sign away my rights previous to the jab.

[Marilyn]

It reminds me of the time I took my brand new car in for its very first service. ( it had a 5 year warranty). They put a form in front of me to sign saying I accept that they may choose to use second hand parts from wherever they source them. I went
( slightly) berserk...refusing to sign such an offensive agreement when I had a 5 year warranty. They handed my keys back and said Goodbye, saying I was voiding my own warranty.
In the end I wrote “signed under sufferance” and signed my name over the top so it could not be olbliterated.

Vote with your feet. I shall never buy another Suzuki again!

[Tizer]

It looks like China is now having a problem with its Sinovac vaccine...
`China considers mixing vaccines to bolster efficacy: Disease control centre makes first public admission over effectiveness of domestic jabs' Financial Times
`The Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention has raised the prospect of mixing vaccines and varying doses to boost efficacy, the first time a government body has acknowledged concerns over the effectiveness of home-grown jabs. Gao Fu, CDC head, told a conference on Saturday that the agency was “considering how to solve the problem that the efficacy of existing vaccines is not high”, according to local media. Gao proposed mixing different vaccines as well as amending the sequence of doses, such as changing the number and quantity of doses, and the interval between them....Social-media posts on Gao’s remarks were swiftly censored, according to Yanzhong Huang, a senior fellow for global health at the Council on Foreign Relations. “It is the first time . . . a government official publicly admitted that the protection rate is a concern in the vaccination drive,” Huang added. China had administered 65m doses across the country by the middle of March..'.

[Marilyn]

All getting slightly worrying....( we are not guinea pigs!)

[Whyperion]

Is UK requiring written consent. maybe its just the way the medical system in Oz is set up to work. Sort of makes sense that no one is holding your arm down forcing the needle in.


In respect to China, lets assume the Sinovac works similar ways to the 4 or 5 'western' ones. There is a technical thought that possibly variation in does 2 from dose 1 might make the immune response more useful (or no less useful). That might happen with China. I understand China reads and publishes immense numbers of technical and scientific journals and reports so they can their ideas from anywhere.

[Big Kev]

Is UK requiring written consent. maybe its just the way the medical system in Oz is set up to work. Sort of makes sense that no one is holding your arm down forcing the needle in.

Certainly no requirement to sign anything when I had mine.

[Marilyn]

Given that we have not been able to sign for scripts at the chemist for over a year (due to the danger of handling pens that others have handled), I cannot see how we must sign when we get vaccinated. Mixed messages!
Our PM seems to be giving a "happy" talk on the news every morning. On one breath he is encouraging everyone to get vaccinated as quickly as possible. In he next breath he admits supplies are so sketchy that he cannot possibly be expected to provide numbers or timelines for the vaccination roll out.
(Roll out is the wrong term to use. Total bawls up suits better).
Doctors are pulling their hair out arranging bookings but the vaccine isn't turning up as promised.

[Stanley]

I can't help but note Maz that it's not long since you were telling us how badly we compare with Australia.
I shall get my second jab at the surgery in Barlick this morning at 09:15. I will not have to sign or pay anything and will be in and out in five minutes. That's how badly we are doing and I do not feel like a guinea pig nor will I if boosters are required later.

[Marilyn]

If you are comparing THEN and NOW, there is no question we have dropped the ball. It is disappointing. We started off hard and fast with fantastic “track and trace”, closing borders early, relentless testing and quarantine. Due to that effort, we have only endured short, sharp lockdowns and have a very low death rate, and very few ICU admissions.
UK was slow to implement these techniques, resulting in a much higher death rate, high ICU admissions and an extended lockdown that was pure misery for many.
I’m pleased that vaccination is working so well for you all now. Just hope coming out of lockdown will also be successful or if you will be overwhelmed again. It is hard to know with variants, such as the new aggressive one developing in India, now affecting much younger people than previous variants.
The world is watching and waiting...
I wouldn’t go running the flag up the flag pole just yet.

[Stanley]

I am talking about reality and not running any flags anywhere. That's been your forte.

[Marilyn]

Here we go again