POLITICS CORNER

[Big Kev]

The Brexit deal vote went well for the government then?

The SNP are calling for article 50 to be suspended, I think they should rescind it but that's just my opinion.

[Stanley]

And a valid opinion too Kev, I share your view.....
Cox is an oversized ego who shouts a lot.......
I watched the Parliament channel and am glad I saw the tellers giving the result. When May referred to the historians the other day I wonder if she realised she was going to set a record for the modern era? This is the largest majority against a government ever as far as I can see barring those votes where the ruling party declined to vote on principle.
In 'normal' times there would be no need for a vote of confidence, indeed, I expect it to be a mistake because May will probably win it. (The last thing most MPs want is to put their seat at risk.) Most governments, faced with a loss like this would go to the Queen immediately and own up to having failed. In this case that could be a smart move because winning power at a time like this is still a poisoned chalice.
This is not over yet and we are still in imminent danger of an economic and political melt-down. That's why I share Kev's opinion (and Tizer's too I don't doubt.) what we need to do is press the reboot button and go back to where we were before Cameron inflicted this on us.
I reflected last night that a Tory cat fight started this hare running and another will probably end it as well.

Later.... walking is good for thinking.... We are deadlocked politically with a Brexit policy that is a dead duck and the possibility of a crisis looming with the chances of a No Deal exit increasing by the day. It is obvious that we need a new strategy, question is what will it be? The easiest way would be to do what nobody dare talk about, rescind the application. Failing that we should be looking at what history teaches us about situations like this.
We have been here before in two world wars and the solution that worked then was to put Party aside, form a National Government, assert much more central control over the business and industrial sector, including the commanding heights of the economy and lastly, use deficit financed investment to keep the country going.
In the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis and during this miserable two years I have raised this as a possible strategy but T May was more interested in retaining complete control to herself and fighting the cracks in her own party. This has failed. Time for something new.
The first thing to do is postpone Brexit Day, the EU have said they would agree with that. Have the vote of confidence but during the debate on that make it quite clear that the aim was not a Labour Government but what used to be called a government of all the talents tasked with finding a solution and in Blair's words when he Instructed Frank Fields, thinking the unthinkable. That would include staying in the EU.
Will it happen.... I doubt it, I see no signs of the imaginative thinking that is necessary. From what I can see T May is simply going to procrastinate, time the process out and accept No Deal because that way she has a chance of holding the Tories together. The worst possible outcome.

[Tizer]

This is not over yet and we are still in imminent danger of an economic and political melt-down. That's why I share Kev's opinion (and Tizer's too I don't doubt.) what we need to do is press the reboot button and go back to where we were before Cameron inflicted this on us....
We have been here before in two world wars and the solution that worked then was to put Party aside, form a National Government, assert much more central control over the business and industrial sector, including the commanding heights of the economy and lastly, use deficit financed investment to keep the country going.....
The first thing to do is postpone Brexit Day, the EU have said they would agree with that. Have the vote of confidence but during the debate on that make it quite clear that the aim was not a Labour Government but what used to be called a government of all the talents tasked with finding a solution and in Blair's words when he Instructed Frank Fields, thinking the unthinkable. That would include staying in the EU.

That's what I want to happen. Put party politics aside. Put dogma aside. Look at the facts and discount the fantasies. Take back control as our representatives in Parliament. Perhaps I could even add `Make Britain great again'!

NB. `European Council President Donald Tusk has suggested that the UK should stay in the EU, after the prime minister's Brexit deal was rejected in parliament. "If a deal is impossible, and no one wants no deal, then who will finally have the courage to say what the only positive solution is?", he tweeted.' (from BBC)

Later, at about 12.30....the timetable is to debate Labour's no confidence motion for about six hours from 13:00 with vote at 19:00. The closing speeches will be at 18.30 from M. Gove and T. Watson.

[Pluggy]

I've got the popcorn in and I'm just going to watch which way it falls......

[Tripps]

In reality nothing much seems to have been changed by yesterday's vote. She just cruises on .

I was reminded of the Downing Street lectern speech she gave after the 2017 election. She gave the same speech as she would have, had she got her desired large 'strong and stable' majority.

Grand Master Nigel Short put it very nicely today -

"There is a point when obduracy becomes indistinguishable from stupidity."

I think the whole political system needs a spring clean, and bringing into the 21st Century. Start with electronic voting for MP's.

[Tizer]

Putin must be a happy man. He can stand down his spooks, troublemakers and internet hackers and just sit back and watch Britain and the US slide into paralysis!

[Big Kev]

By the skin of her teeth and an invitation for 'a bit of a chat'

[Tizer]

I believe the DUP members had said they would all vote for May. If so, does that mean that if they'd voted against her she would have lost by one vote? That deal with the DUP will have paid off well for her !

[Tripps]

does that mean that if they'd voted against her she would have lost by one vote?

That's what I calculated, and Nigel Dodds wasted no time in pointing out that fact to Mrs May with some vigour.

PS - in round figures the vote was 51.5 % to 48.5 % Not unlike the referendum result -

That's very close - perhaps they'd better vote again.

[PanBiker]

They will get the opportunity again when she comes back with the same diatribe in a few days. EU has already stated that they are not prepared to tweak anything, they already have a deal and they are sticking to it, at the moment.

[Stanley]

Nothing has changed. Not even May's strategy! Nigel Short was right.
Thinking about cross party discussions, the driver for her slim majority was the Tory fear of a General Election and loss of seats. So many of the Tory replies were paeans of hatred towards Corbyn and 'Left Wing'. None of them admitted that they have made a complete balls of Brexit. Blind hatred and self interest is governing our future, not what is best for the UK.
My preference is a National Government led by Ms Sturgeon.......

[chinatyke]

I think the whole political system needs a spring clean, and bringing into the 21st Century. Start with electronic voting for MP's.

I agree. Start with getting rid of 90% of the MPs and follow that by 90% of the peers and 100% MEPs and ...

How many people and hangers-on does it take to run a p... up in a brewery?

MPs 650

UK MEPs 73

Peers approx 800

[Stanley]

Look at your own system for the answer to that!
May says that she has the confidence of the House.... Well, the half of them that are Tories....
Corbyn throws the cat amongst the pigeons by demanding an assurance that 'No Deal' is taken off the table first. The Telegraph says this makes him a 'wrecker'. No mention of the fact that Nicola Sturgeon attended one meeting but then sent a letter to T May saying exactly the same thing as did Plaid Cymru. I think Nicola and Plaid Cymru went about it the right way, Corbyn was putting a hostage up to fortune by bringing this up before any meeting. It doesn't take a political genius to see that this is a red rag to a bull. (But perhaps that was the intention, to stoke up intemperate responses from May?)
The Telegraph has got hold of a recording of a conference call to major business leaders who have voiced disquiet about No Deal. Phil Hammond told them that that was not a problem as it would be taken off the table in the next few days. This is taken as a signal that the next move we will see is postponement of the March 29th deadline.
Worth recognising that No Deal would be as bad for the EU as us and up to now May has used this as a threat in her dealings with Brussels, it may be that she is reluctant to discard this card from her hand. It may be time for a less threatening attitude to Brussels. Remember the Tory threat to be 'aggressive' in the financial markets? At the bottom, this is why the Brexiteers have been fighting, they are all on track to be winners if this happens and bugger the voters.

[chinatyke]

Look at your own system for the answer to that!

The Chinese National People's Congress has 2987 representatives to legislate for a population twenty times that of the UK. On that basis the UK should have 150 MPs (and none in opposition)!

[plaques]

One of the downfalls of Mrs May's Brexit strategy has been her 'Red Lines'. If you look at the history of Red lines it refers back to the Crimean war and the battle of Balaclava. Basically a cock up but finally worked because it was thought it was a bluff. Bearing in mind the order was "There is no retreat from here, men. You must die where you stand" is not good news for the UK. The obvious problem for Mrs May was that that the EU must have read about this battle and called her bluff. Like a good commander she is now searching round to offload the blame onto. The opposition are not complete fools and the last thing the want is to be associated with a loser. The only option left is to blame Putin and the Russians. Difficult but not impossible.

[Stanley]

Very true P. The undercurrent of fear and hatred of 'THE LEFT' so evident in the diatribes we hear from the Tories (And the counter-fire from the left it must be said) bodes ill for 'cross party consultation which I fear is only one more ploy from May for buying time. I think Corbyn, the SNP and Plaid Cymru have seen through this and this explains the current seeming impasse. I say 'seeming' because I can't believe that discussions aren't taking place beyond our hearing in all parties to eliminate 'hard Brexit' Surely the cock-up can't be that big? Or am I being too complacent/optimistic/foolish?
I think back to my reading of Crossman's Back Bench Diaries and his revelations about what went on out of sight from the public. I think the same thing could be happening here. One thing is certain, we will not get an inkling of any such moves until the shit hits the fan!

[Stanley]

There is no political news worth mentioning, May continues the 'time out' ploy and insists that the no deal option is essential to pressurise the EU. Corbyn is a wrecker of course. When does steadfastness become blind stubbornness? Meanwhile the clock ticks.....

[Tizer]

It's kind of the BBC to put this Twitter post up today in its article about Boris telling lies. LINK Bruff warned us of the misinformation and I've been telling anyone who would listen ever since. Regardless of all the talk, Turkey was very unlikely to be considered for membership of the EU; and even if every other member nation wanted to let Turkey in the UK could have vetoed it and prevented it happening. Some people claim that the veto no longer applies because the method of voting was changed. Yes, the EU changed to `qualified majority' voting - but only for relatively minor issues. The veto still applies to bigger issues such as foreign affairs and defence. (And even `qualified majority' voting isn't simply 51% wins, it requires a larger majority; if a country wants to hold a referendum it would be sensible to base it on a `qualified majority'.) After Brexit we won't have any control over who becomes a member of the EU - and yet the Leave campaign talks about `taking back control'.

[PanBiker]

Here on JC's Facebook page is his letter to TM after she has refused to take no deal off the table.

Jeremy Corbyn MP - Facebook

[Stanley]

Both Tiz and JC have a perfectly reasonable point of view. Are we all wreckers?
If there is a wrecker on the plot, my candidate is T May. When will she grasp the fact that her deal is dead in the water? How can she be forced into that. She's as bad as Trump and his Wall.

[plaques]

Brexit. MP's are plotting to introduce a 'No Deal' limitation on the Brexit conditions should Mrs May's plan B fail. Since there isn't a plan B and Plan 'C' is to see if the EU will blink first when they realize that the UK is leaving come what may; is like hoping that the guillotine will stop just before the final blow is wishful thinking. If the MP's motion does take hold they are really saying that they have no confidence in the Cabinet and no confidence in Mrs May in particular. Her days are numbered and the Tory party could split although this is most unlikely. And the real villain is Bercow the speaker who seems hell bent in introducing some democracy into the House of Commons.

[Tizer]

Thanks for the view of JC's letter to TM, Ian, but I wish he had done as T Blair suggested he should - surely it would have been better to have gone into No.10 and met with TM, then come out, stood on the steps of No.10 and told the reporters something like "She won't budge but we can come up with a better solution". That way he couldn't be criticised for not meeting with her and he could have got in a good sound bite and plug for Labour too.

Patrick Hoskings in yesterday's Times related how Boris spoke to workers at the JCB factory in Staffs. He was doing his usual misinforming and stirring up anger and daft things like `There'll be no shortage of Mars bars after 29th March'. He was telling them that tightening immigration will increase their pay and `We need to go to Brussels and demand real change on the backstop'. Hoskings said it was more like a 30-minute free advert for JCB with him on a podium with `JCB' in big letters and yellow diggers lined up behind him. By the end of the talk he seemed to be wandering and just made jokes about diggers!

[Tizer]

“Fear under the Tories, or hope with Labour” – Tom Watson’s speech at Fabian conference LINK
Perhaps deputy leader Tom Watson would make a better Labour leader than J Corbyn.

[Stanley]

There has always been a 'better candidate' for leadership all my life Tiz. Laet's support what we have got, he isn't doing a bad job if you ignore the right wing media....
Lovely P! I do like your irony.... I am very impressed by Bercow, all right he has his faults but he is closer to being a 'democrat' than the Tories.
Liam Fox said yesterday that democracy would be damaged if the 'wreckers' took over. In other words, if the will of Parliament upsets Tory Plans this is insurrection. He and his party haven't grasped the fact that One Party government is not democracy! For the last three years the Tories have kept Brexit entirely to themselves and since she was made leader May has even ignored her own Cabinet and left them in the dark. Even now they don't know what she is thinking.
Later.... early comment and news suggests that May is going to reveal he Plan B, only trouble is that it is Plan A! She has not changed her mind and on the contrary is blaming the failure of her 'attempts to get cross party support by conference calls' on Jeremy Corbyn, it's all his fault. (Exactly as P suggested) Oh, and include the Speaker, no doubt he will be implicated as well.
Not everyone is buying this so look out for fireworks in the House today. This woman has taken stubbornness to an art form. She is ignoring the clear message that Parliament gave her and is looking solely at narrow party advantage, not what is best for the UK. Her time-out policy must be stopped now!

[Tizer]

She has not changed her mind and on the contrary is blaming the failure of her 'attempts to get cross party support by conference calls' on Jeremy Corbyn, it's all his fault.

Exactly. That's why I said he should have taken the opportunity to meet with her. Also he would have had a chance to pick up useful inside information on her thinking by asking probing questions.