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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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Whyperion wrote: 17 Jun 2017, 19:52 ....as Labour bodies are as culpable as the tory local authorities
Are these culpable people Neo-Labour ? or old Labour? It would be a rare animal indeed to find someone on a town council who could stand their ground against the 'professional planners'. The top ranking MP's are generally qualified lawyers, ie: wordsmiths in suits. Making noises that sound impressive but really mean nothing. All aimed at confusing the poor old punter into thinking he is getting something that he isn't. To quote a line from 'These Boots were meant for Walking'...."You keep lying when you should be truthing.". Its about time we gave them the boot.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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As I have said so many times before, it's useless to point the finger at bad parties when looking at the general deterioration in politics, it's a bad system and incompetent individuals more focused on their own career and beliefs than the good of the electorate. This is why the Corbyn approach is so refreshing. He has made the first cracks in the structure I have seen for a long time.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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by Labour I mean a serious dis-connect at the micro-locality level between the blindly elected councillors and the people they are supposed to represent. Yes there is a steer from planners re london in particular that housing ( rabbit hutch flats ) should be everywhere , without thought for communities displaced. If we say nothing, we agree, if we raise issues worthy of consideration we are trouble-makers. The North Kensington area had additionally loss of adult education college (also happended in another Labour controlled borough), a private academy built in a wrong location that argueably compromised fire vehicle access through taking additional land after its PP granted ( similar proposed in another Lab controlled borough), a closure of a local library. None of these things of themselves are wholly wrong but it seems the justification for doing things is fitted to the outcome desired, rather than taking what is proposed and working out what the outcome will actually be.
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I totally agree. I'm ashamed to say that many, but not all, of the councilors are drawn into the 'process' that starts off way above their heads. Although the World's GDP is on a year to year growth rate we are constantly being told there is no money for social projects. The economy has to brought back into equilibrium with a good dose of austerity. Of course the rich 1% don't come into this equation they can carry on enjoying the spoils of GDP while larger and larger proportions of the population to use George Orwell's words become 'unpersons'. Legislation is tweaked to make it harder for them to have a say. Budgets are trimmed so that cutbacks become inevitable. The propaganda machine is turned up to make socialism sound like a virus to be eliminated at all costs with troublesome groups isolated and inoculated against any possible contagion. If, as occasionally happens, the underclass do rebel then its easy to point the finger at these young lawless uneducated jobless hooligans who deserve nothing better than feel the full force of the law and thereby start the next downward spiral phase of their careers. Nothing is said about how we got into this mess in the first place. It just becomes part of the 'process' that we have to live with.
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And it all stems from Libertarianism, the economic theory that sprang up in the States in the 60s whereby deregulation and regressive tax and business policies put power in the hands of the wealthy and the monopolies who rapidly realised that they could improve on the system by using their rents to influence politics. I didn't fully understand it then but I knew the accountants were in control. I have since learned how it was done. 'Move Fast and Break Things' is very good on this, well worth a read.
Did you watch Boris and Theresa last night? I was reminded of the Crossman Diaries, nothing has changed......
The EU negotiations start today and it's a disgrace that the electorate know nothing about the government strategy. Are they still going in threatening to walk away if we don't get what we want. Nobody knows and the media are being forced to talk to 'experts' who can only state the bleeding obvious over and over again.
The DUP coalition.... I am confused. Has there been an agreement? If so what has been given as a bribe? Again, it's a disgrace that we, the people who will pay, know nothing about what is happening.
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Noam Chomsky the America intellectual (to the left of Bernie Sanders) makes it clear than the 'Free Trade' agreements that America negotiates with other countries have nothing to do with Free Trade' . They are everything in name but 'Investment Agreements'. Concocted and written by corporate lawyers to give their corporations and banks an advantage over the countries they intend to trade with. These agreements are negotiated in secret, does this sound familiar? with with public kept out of the proceedings until they are finalized.
'Move Fast and Break things', tried to order it through the Lancashire Libraries on line system but it wasn't on their listings. Called in at the library and mentioned it to the librarian. "There's one in Preston Prison I'll try and order it for you". Unfortunately she didn't know how long it's sentence was and whether it would be let out on good behavior.
I see the Bigwig Tories are all jockeying for position for the leadership. Is this the start of the death throes for Mrs May?
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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plaques wrote: 19 Jun 2017, 08:36 "There's one in Preston Prison I'll try and order it for you".
Ask the librarian to confirm that the book has been thoroughly cleaned. No, I'm not joking - some of the illicit drugs that are now circulating in British prisons are so powerful that trace amounts of them are dangerous. I'm talking about the so-called `spice' drugs. Prison officers are becoming ill and collapsing after accidentally inhaling such drugs. A report in The Times said there was a danger from skin contact with some drugs. Mind you, the ones suing the drugs probably aren't reading books, especially the ones you read!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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That took me back a few years to when on a controlled drugs course, we were warned never to try the ' Kojak Test'. i.e. dip your index finger into the suspect substance, then dab it on your tongue. Commonly shown on TV at the time. 'What if it's LSD?' they warned. :smile:
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Go mad P and order a copy from Amazon! It's well worth it.
Our crisis management government has come up with a cunning wheeze, cancel next year's Queen's Speech so they don't have to present a programme for debate in the House. I've never heard of this before during peace time. At the same time they are fighting to retain credibility in the arguments about the Grenfell Affair. The death toll is now provisionally set at 79 but the police expect it to go higher and imply that the final count may not be accurate because of problems with identifying incinerated remains.
News this morning is that as I forecast Davies has learned that the 'negotiations' are a mirage. The EU presented their programme, said it couldn't be changed and he had to roll over. Before anything else is discussed the matter of human rights and payment have to be not only considered but agreed.
As for May's position, it is desperate. Rumours from the usual suspects in No 10 suggest that she is 'devastated and tearful' after her calamitous fall from grace but 'is concious of her duty' and so will hang on as long as the party wants her. The truth is that if she were to do a Cameron and walk away this would not only shatter the government's credibility but trigger a savage fight for the Leadership at the worst possible time leaving the door wide open for a Vote of No Confidence which would undoubtedly pass. The Party doesn't want her but needs her and that's why the lid has been put on the revenge frenzy that is undoubtedly there under the surface. Be certain that 'soundings are being taken' and 'positions considered' in the back rooms. What is frightening them to death at the moment is a surprise 'stalking horse' nomination that under Parliamentary rules would have to be publicly considered. Whoever triggers this is in great political danger but be sure that some fanatic somewhere is thinking about it. Under these circumstances May will be forced to stay in post until her exit can be managed without damaging the party. Hard to see when this could be and of course the paradox is that the longer they keep her nose to the wheel and express confidence in public, the more damaging the resignation will be. There is a secondary problem. Any new leader would have to go to the country for a mandate in order to be credible and the arithmetic is that in such a case, Corbyn would end up in No 10. Can you imagine the choice? Corbyn v. Boris, Rudd or Leadsom?
Give me my due. I forecast something like this a long time ago, the policies the Tories have pursued since 2010 could have only one dénouement. Our democratic system may be damaged but it is still the most powerful leveller in the long run.
By the way, Corbyn knows this and those who forecast a 'Marxist' government (whatever that means....) demonstrate that they don't understand the system. The same checks and balances would work against a violent swing to the Left.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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I'm troubled by a small news item this morning. The family of the man who drove the van in the Finsbury Park incident have issued a statement expressing their regret and saying that he was disturbed but not a racist. I see no reason why this shouldn't be taken at face value and wonder whether, despite this being immediately branded a 'Terrorist attack' by May, this could perhaps be a consequence of the abysmally bad level of support we give people with mental health problems.
A terrorist attack plays better politically than yet another example of bad health provision due to underfunding. My crap detector is whining loudly!
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"Never Interfere With an Enemy While He’s in the Process of Destroying Himself" Napoleon (c1806). Corbyn just needs to keep plugging away at the domestic agenda and quote the Manifesto details when confronted by Brexit questions. Sir Keir Starmer, Shadow Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, tried to explain to Andrew Marr that the negotiations would be a step by step series approach rather than a multiple subject parallel discussion. Andrew Marr didn't appear to understand and kept shouting "Yes or No, "Yes or No". to his simplistic questions. As Bruff has pointed out several times the EU has got to be open about the negotiations and follow a logical series of steps. The hard Brexiters will never go along with this and will continue to try to get their man/woman as leader until the whole parliament collapses. Meanwhile lets hope the economy can survive.
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From the evidence of Hammond and Carny yesterday I think they know the answer to that one P. In effect both of them admitted that real pay levels will fall even faster and that any mitigating policies from government must focus on bolstering business to keep the money from trade flowing in. It would appear that the Economics 101 precept that most growth comes from domestic consumption supporting value added manufacturing has been forgotten. The returns from that would be more than subsidising the highly competitive export trade important though that is.
I heard one commentator describe Hammond as 'shouting through the letterbox of Number Ten'. A good description as it would appear he is at odds with May and many in the Cabinet and they are ignoring him. Worth remembering that if May had got her landslide Hammond would have been heaved out.
I agree with you about the Labour strategy, keep hammering at the economy. May and her party knew that bad times were coming and that's why she attempted her coup. This has failed and the coming storm will destroy them. Problem is that it will damage all of us. This is the tragedy of the last seven years of bad policies.....
Later.... two embarrassing bits of news for the May government. The police have stated quite unequivocally that counter terrorism policing is on a crisis basis because of lack of funds and this despite resources being diverted from other areas of policing. The bottom line is that they have a financial crisis, the cuts have gone too far.
Word emerges, interestingly enough from the DUP, far too embarrassing for the government to report, that the coalition talks are foundering and the DUP are ready to walk away. There are even speculations that the Tories might approach to LibDems. It looks as though it's going to be a minority government. So much for the May landslide.... Now for the debate on the Queen's Speech......
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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Brexit aside (and it might just be better for the EU to tell us what to do, we agree £££ terms , maybe with some token concessions from the EU), I wonder if the election did deliver the best govt for Britain.

With a strong minority Lab COULD push small changes in the social agenda, and take the edge of what in the queen's speech turned into quite a few 'reviews' and 'considerations' there are. Anyone added up how many new Quangos are being set up ?
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What amazes me is the bare faced cheek of the 'party faithful' who are queuing up to get into the media studios to give the 'steady as she goes' message (massage?) and to tell us what a wonderful caring person May is. Not a peep about the funding crisis in public services or the financial forecasts.
See THIS for a Guardian report on what the Independent described later as "the worst political interview ever". Boris floundered when questioned by Eddie Mair on the inclusion of black people and after that things went from bad to worse. In the last hour there has been a report that he says he will not stand as a leadership candidate if there is a contest....
Did you hear Dennis yesterday when Black Rod was summoning the Commons to the other place for the Queen's Speech? "You'd better get your skates on. The first race is at 2:30". Even Black Rod smiled...... Brenda made it, a quick change from blue to pink and she was there on time for the carriage procession.
Later..... The most senior unelected official on the Kensington council has resigned over the unacceptable delay in reaction to the Grenfell fire. He says he was asked to go by Sajid Javid .
I have been wondering for a while about the toxic emissions from the burning cladding. You have only to look at the blackened hulk to recognise how bad this was. The Mail reports this morning that some of the survivors are being treated for the inhalation of Cyanide so it looks as though this may have been a factor.
May goes to Brussels for a dinner with the EU. She is expected to make 'an attractive offer' on the vexed subject of the rights of EU nationals in the UK. Will this be what should have been done in the first place, guarantee continuing rights for them and ask for a reciprocal arrangements?
Trump comes up with an infantile cunning wheeze in a campaign meeting, he suggests covering the infamous wall with solar panels to defray the cost to both the US and the Mexican government. This despite the fact that Mexico is quite clear about the wall, if the US wants it they must pay for it.
Even more interesting is news that Labour and LibDem peers in the Lords are considering breaking with precedent in opposing the manifesto that never was. This opens up the possibility of a failure to pass the Bill in the Commons. TM is looking even more unsafe despite the fusillade of support from Tories and the adoption of a new keyword, 'Humility'.
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Theresa May's 'generous offer' on citizen's rights to the EU turns out to be mean spirited and vague. I don't think she has impressed them, Angela Merkel certainly wants much better terms and in the end it will be her view that prevails. Noticeable that the 27 didn't discuss it while she was there, they waited until she had left.
Meanwhile at home it becomes obvious that she has also managed to ruffle the feathers of the DUP. Apart from announcing that agreement had been reached when it hadn't, the DUP say that the Number Ten response to them has been 'chaotic'. Full coalition with them is looking less likely by the day.
Looking at the present political chaos I can't help but reflect that Cameron and Osborne did the smart thing when they scuttled. Could it be that they realised what a cock-up they had created and what was coming down the road as a consequence? Apart from the political disaster, it becomes more and more likely that we are heading for a very challenging economic situation, as I have predicted for years, the 'economic miracle' was flim-flam, Wizard of Oz territory. Piketty, Stiglitz and the IMF were right, austerity was the direct opposite of what was required to regenerate the economy. We should have stimulated domestic consumption, not stifled it. JMK must be spinning in his grave!
I see that Amber Rudd has admitted that 'the police are stretched'. She had to, because every senior officer is telling her they are in crisis. This applies also to education and the NHS. What a bloody mess.....
I fear for Our Richard's blood pressure.
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Listened to Rees Mogg talking about how easy it would be out of the EU. First we don't need the EU's permission to trade with the rest of the world. All you need to do is sell stuff to them (World) put it into a crate and ship it off. Likewise, incoming goods are shipped over and as the crate is being unloaded from ship to dock the paper work is processed and off it goes. QED. No hang ups, no delays, all straight forward stuff. What are we waiting for? Let's get out. This is on a par with the £350,000 per week that can go to the NHS. I wonder how many people actually believe what he is saying? More to the point does he actually believe it himself?
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I just googled to confirm - actually it was £350 million per week that was claimed.

I find that by comparison - £350,000 per week is the wages of Christiano Ronaldo. :smile:
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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It’s the Dunning-Kruger effect Plaques. Rees Mogg and his ilk are clueless about trade (they have this quaint idea it’s ‘selling stuff’) they don’t actually realise the extent of their cluelessness and so blather on assuming they are the font of all expertise. On some occasions it strays into ‘that is not only not right it is not even wrong’ territory. This is where folk are so clueless about trade, tarrifs and non-tarrif barriers, the EU, the WTO, the institutions etc. and their interactions, that they can’t even engage in the most simple, logical terms. Let me explain via this maths example.

2+2=4 is right

2+2=6 is wrong

2+2=√(3e^(-iωt) )-apples/pears at constant meat pie is not just not right it’s not even wrong as it’s nonsensical with respect to basic mathematics.

‘It’s not just not right it’s not even wrong’ is attributed to the prickly Wolfgang Pauli, a Nobel prize winning physicist and quantum pioneer. He was notorious for picking apart research presentations. After one presentation he made this famous statement, which admittedly sounds better in the original German - 'Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig; es ist nicht einmal falsch'.

On to other things, we now have the offer from the PM on EU citizens rights and as with respect to these rights what we have to remember is the issue of reciprocity. That is, what she proposes for EU citizens here in the UK is presumably that she would be happy to see reciprocated for UK citizens in the EU (because the final deal on this will not be one set of conditions for EU citizens here and another, different set of conditions for UK citizens there). Sadly, what she proposes falls well short of the proposal from the EU which is freely available for all to read at the website I referred some posts earlier (and there are now 2 substantive EU papers on their proposal for reciprocal and reserved rights for EU/UK citizens on that site). So we have a UK PM making a worse offer for UK citizens than the EU! That’s the spirit…

Look, predictably this has caused consternation among the various groups representing other Eu nationals here and UK national in the rest of the EU and understandably so. It’s difficult to think of a more bone-headed approach than to so transparently make a worse offer for your own citizens than the other party makes. I mean, come on!

Just on the EU documents, they have also addd another paper on the financial settlement. Strangely, I am not aware of any papers from the UK side on these matters.

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"'Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig; es ist nicht einmal falsch'." Love it Richard!
In statements yesterday the EU leaders made it quite clear how derisory May's offer on citizen's rights was, they also pointed out that any discussions were a matter for the Brexit negotiators and nothing to do with leaders in face to face meetings. As I said a while ago May simply doesn't understand the process. For years they have blathered on about the terrible EU bureaucrats but step back and look what they have achieved, they have produced clear, public policy directives and positions and got the agreement of 27 member states! From the evidence May ought to ask the EU for help in preparing our position. From the evidence of the DUP 'negotiations' Number Ten couldn't run a booze up in a brewery! I have little doubt that behind the scenes in the EU they are all laughing at us and quite confident that eventually they will achieve all the goals set out by them.
Meanwhile, shock horror, they suddenly realise that they have been wrapping buildings in highly flammable 'cladding and insulation. As one H&S expert said yesterday he found it amazing that anything other than non-flammable materials had even been considered. Now we have mass evacuations of affected buildings and we haven't even looked at schools and hospitals yet.
As for Rees Mogg..... he's a perfect example of the Establishment's ability to select on 19th century ground rules, "Is he one of us?" I have moaned for years about the barriers put in place to stop the grass roots coming up through the hawse hole into Parliament or at least on ability. Trade? He couldn't run a toffee shop!
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I may be wrong but I am sure I heard a tiny statement yesterday that the EU talks were going well and that the financial position had been agreed. Did my ears deceive me? If so, why no word?
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

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I'm not certain if the final 'agreement' ends up giving away a concession that may well have been a fulcrum point that was the underlying basis on the way I voted (which was an economic trade and legal specific reason), and what , if anything, should I do about it, Sue DD and BJ etc ? There is some talk on the streets that any agreement might be so difficult that it is decided to abandon leaving EU - possibly modifying some UK membership terms instead.
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I see that Mrs May has been practising her negotiation skills on the DUP. She's thrown a £billion at them and she now has her slender majority. Great news, we now have a strong and stable government.....
Later..... Mrs May may have opened up a very large can of worms with the DUP deal. It is clear now that this deal ends in two years and there is little doubt that if they were needed, the DUP will ask for even more. Then there is Sinn Fein who are suggesting that this damages the chance of the return of devolved government . Suppose they took their seats and voted against anything the DUP backs?
Then there is the reaction from Scotland, Wales and even some parts of England. If there is enough money to throw at Northern Ireland why not the other devolved parliaments or even the horrendous public service and local government cuts. She may have a slim majority on paper but I have a feeling that this is not over yet. Let us not forget what got us to this sorry pass. I think she is probably the worst PM I can remember.
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Don't worry too much about the cost Stanley it will be you who is paying.
The Sovereign Grant will soar to £82.2m next year. Austerity what austerity?
As a primer to the book ' Move Fast and Break Things' I'm just part way through the book, 'Worktown'. Actually its a write up covering the Mass Observation study about the working people of Bolton in 1937's. The study was initiated because of the abdication of Edward V111. Suddenly, some of the Westminster intellectuals realized that they knew nothing about how ordinary working people lived or what they were thinking. Although designed as an anthropological study on primitive peoples, cannibals etc, it was also felt by the ruling classes, monarchy, intellectuals and newspapers, that by knowing was going on in the distant manufacturing towns it would enable them to rule and control the population in the correct and proper manner. There was no question about the lower classes having a say in what was going on it was more of a case how to manipulate the media to give the idea they were being considered. It would now appear we have gone full circle with the Westminster bubble losing touch with the younger voters and getting egg on their faces. Watch out for another Mass Observation study but this time in the Social Media using computer algorithms rather that volunteers walking the streets taking notes.
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Barlick Branch Labour Party AGM tonight, followed by a business meeting (joint with Earby Branch).
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Worth listening to the last ten minutes of Hilary Mantel's Antwerp Reith lecture where she gives her opinion about Brexit. Quite brilliant and I hope you all, particularly Richard, hear it.
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