POLITICS CORNER

[Stanley]

Watching T May attempting to dance with the kids in a Capetown schoolyard on TV made me wonder what the hell was going on. Instead of promising mythical billions of pounds investment (I wonder where that is coming from?) the Chinese are out there building infrastructure and mining. Susan mentioned that not far from where she was in the Rift Valley the Chinese have a large mining operation in full swing. Meanwhile our PM scatters magic dust and aspirations about as she has her African jolly. Is this really going to solve all our problems?
Meanwhile, back here at home I monitor the gradual decline of services and social conditions. Did you hear IDS arguing with a retired police superintendent (who was obviously at the end of his tether) about the latest 'initiative' to curb gang related crime? The superintendent clearly stated that the rise in violent crime and the fall in detection rates, even for murder, was because the police hadn't got the men on the streets and were not getting advance intelligence. In other words, underfunding and cuts. IDS dismissed this and rabbited on about complicated new 'initiatives' to 'tackle the situation at its roots'. I venture to think that there is more to be gained from old fashioned policing with boots on the ground and alleviation of lack of opportunity and poverty in the poor. But what the hell do I know!
Yup! I'm pissed off with them!

[Tizer]

Now the nurses are speaking up...
`Brexit poses risk to care, says Royal College of Nursing' LINK
`Brexit poses an "immediate risk to the provision of safe and effective care" for patients in the UK, according to the Royal College of Nursing. The union has made the warning in a letter to leaders of the UK's main political parties on behalf of its 435,000 members. It also wants the parties to back a second referendum on any Brexit deal.'

[Stanley]

The NHS is losing EU born nurses hand over fist already before Der Tag.

[Stanley]

I'm quite disturbed this morning by the news that Frank Fields has resigned the Labour Whip. I'll make it clear now that I don't know enough about what is going on in the Labour Party to come to any conclusions beyond some general points.
I have admired Frank Fields for years for his level headed stance on matters that seemed to me to be perfect subjects for action by a genuine social democratic party so my first reaction is regret that this has happened. Can you remember when Blair instructed Frank to 'Go away and think the unthinkable' about the future course of the Party. He did so, came back with a comprehensive set of proposals and was not only totally ignored by Blair but excluded from any senior role in the Party from then on. His reaction was to fight his corner from the backbenches and as a committee member and he did good work. So far so good.
But then we get into the events that have led up to this resignation and I don't understand what has happened. All I know is that he seems to have lost traction both as a back-bencher and with his local party. Whatever these factors are they have led to this dreadful situation, leading to all sorts of speculation including the formation of a new party. The Right Wing press has of course leapt onto the band wagon and is acting despicably to stir up dissent in Labour. Add to this the protest from from Margaret Hodge and I can only form one general conclusion. This is that something is dreadfully wrong here and it is an internal matter which only Labour can solve. As I say, it has left me deeply disturbed and I suspect I am not alone......

[Tizer]

I'm quite disturbed this morning by the news that Frank Field has resigned the Labour Whip.

Me too. I have a great deal of respect for him and he's the one person, regardless of party, who has been consistently and effectively holding to account the big business leaders and others who are wrecking our social and economic status with their profiteering and scams. He has done far more than Corbyn in that regard. Frank Field's criticism of behaviour in Corbyn's Labour is exactly what others have been warning about for some time now.

I also have great respect for Lord (Rabbi Jonathan) Sacks so I'm concerned too when Sacks accuses Corbyn of giving `support to racists, terrorists and dealers of hate, who want to kill Jews and remove Israel from the map' and says he uses `the language of classic pre-war European anti-Semitism'. Corbyn tries to cover himself by trying to distinguish between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism but he either doesn't believe or doesn't understand that, like it or not, the two terms are now used by many people to mean the same thing. Someone in his position should know better.

We've now got both main parties breaking up rapidly and all this at a time when we are committing to a break with the EU!

[Stanley]

I agree Tiz. Not a good time to be on what feels like a rudderless ship......
There is another matter which everyone seems to be avoiding, the vexed question of Ireland. One of the possible consequences of whatever transpires as Raab puts Barnier under pressure is the possible break-up of the Union. It doesn't take a big stretch of the imagination to see that happening.

[Stanley]

You can all stop worrying about politics. Ian called round with some pears for me and we have sorted the country out, all we have to do now is get our hands on the reins of power!

[plaques]

( Lord (Rabbi Jonathan) Sacks )
I must disagree with you here Tizer. First Sacks is implying that Corbyn is using the language of the Nazis, Like all these accusations there is no direct quote but saying Pre-war European Language the implication is there associating it with the rise of the Third Reich.
Whether people are thinking the two terms have now been gelled into a single meaning is exactly what the Israeli State has been pushing for. Through the past 70 years the rightwing have been gradually turning word meanings on their heads. George Orwell was well aware of this in his Ministry of truth. Irrespective of all this Corbyn has never been Anti-Zionist or Anti-Semitic.
Perhaps at some point people will realize that all these statement of anti-this and anti-that are like the Kings suit of clothes. Until they say specifically who or what they are talking about its will remain bluster and muck stirring. Even Frank Fields dropped into these cliché answers this lunch time when ask can you name a specific thing Corbyn has done? Answer, Your listeners know what I mean.... ie: a non answer.

[Tizer]

( Lord (Rabbi Jonathan) Sacks )
I must disagree with you here Tizer.

But the rest of your post doesn't disagree with me, Plaques. We're on the same track. I'm not saying that Corbyn is Anti-Zionist or Anti-Semitic, in fact I'd have expected him to be very much against both of those. The problem is that he doesn't seem to recognise what you and I both see - that you can't discuss the subject in simple terms now because the meaning of the words has been changed by the most vocal people concerned. He seems to live in a bubble and thinks he can make statements in his old, simple way without realising they are going to be twisted and turned.

[plaques]

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”. I doubt if Corbyn is living in a bubble, he will know exactly what is going on. If he started using the words away from their dictionary meaning the rightwingers would pounce saying 'but you said 5/10 years ago ...Blah blah, blah.' Lets face it we are in a propaganda war where at first he's a Communist and now he is almost a Nazi fascist next week he will probably be a Muslim, where will it stop? Corbyn is not a ranter raver repeating things ad nauseam, which may be seen as a weakness. On the other hand he is quiet and deliberate which could be seen as a strength. The choice is yours as they say.

[PanBiker]

An interesting read:

You were never my Chief Rabbi, bruv

[Stanley]

"Corbyn is not a ranter raver repeating things ad nauseam," Exactly the point Ian and I were agreeing on yesterday.
Thanks for that link, I believe it and it explains a lot to me. I still have this automatic respect for religious leaders from my youth, silly I know when I know they often have feet of clay.
If May called an opportunistic snap election now it would destroy her, her party, Brexit and quite possibly eventually whoever 'won'.

[Tizer]

Judging from Ian's linked Rosenberg article it looks like Corbyn and Sacks are both being trashed by having their past words and actions taken out of context and manipulated to suit other people's views.

It would help matters if Corbyn and Labour at least accepted the working definition of anti-Semitism of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. I can't see what he finds difficult with it. The definition is:
“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities” and the details are here: IHRA

[Tripps]

Another interesting read.

Interesting

[plaques]

Tizer. I don't think there is any problem with the 'Definition', the problem arises in the working examples which I understand is that criticism of Israel state is implied collective criticism of Jewish people therefore anti-Semitic. if the working examples made it absolutely clear that criticism of the States actions with regard to third parties was not anti-Semitic then I'm sure the present disagreements would disappear.
Trips, what a load of c..p. Does this chap work for the Daily Mail? Most of these items have been hit on the head several times and are either outright lies or common sense background diplomacy.

[Stanley]

First time I have ever looked at anything from Guido Fawkes.... and the last. Whoever wrote that is rabid and stirring the shit.
The whole anti-Corbyn campaign is a nasty vicious attack and if it wasn't for the fact that it is so dangerous we would ignore it. Any public figure can be vilified like this. I seem to remember a mayoral candidate in the Great Wen attacking Muslims...... No mention and that's only one example. It's a very ancient Tory blood sport, remember the Zinoviev Letter? (LINK)
I see that T May has 'written' a piece for the Sunday papers saying that there will be no second referendum as this would be 'a betrayal of democracy'. Excuse me if I have a few minutes of hollow laughter. When it comes down to evading democratic action she has written the book! The whole Brexit process has been 'undemocratic'.

[Tizer]

The whole anti-Corbyn campaign is a nasty vicious attack...

I wouldn't go so far as to say that. There are plenty of dedicated Labour people who are seriously disappointed with Corbyn and want him out but aren't part of a `nasty vicious attack'. The trouble is that Labour is now two parties both calling themselves Labour - and likewise for the Conservatives.
The Sunday Times has this as it's front page today...

[PanBiker]

As an active member of Pendle CLP at branch and constituency level I can honestly say that I cannot detect any split in our membership. At both branch and constituency level the membership continues to grow with Jeremy Corbyn as leader, almost certainly in my experience because he is the leader and offers the only sane alternative to what we have now.

The insanity continues, not of our making but fuelling the problem. News yesterday that Trump has decided to withdraw all former aid to Palestine and the beleaguered residents forced out of their homes by Israeli mortars and expansionist policy.

[Tripps]

It's fascinating to see the reaction of different people to the same information. I wonder why that is - my guess would be it is seen from different persectives, different personal background, and family experiences. I think where you live can be a factor - psychogeography?

I must admit I posted that with a very slight sense of mischief to get a reaction - I wasn't disappointed with the response. I wonder what further information on Jeremy it would take to get anyone who is currently a fan to change their mind.

I'll leave you with a couple of quotes - the first from SCG in another thread
"I'll stick to the fake one..... I like it! I'm a great believer in 'the ring of truth'

The second from Ian Fleming
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action"

[plaques]

Time to dig up the old phrase 'Fifth Column'. First used in the siege of Madrid by one of Franco's generals, " I have four columns outside and a fifth column inside". Link.. Both parties appear to be suffering from these clandestine attacks. MP's who are suspected of these undercover maneuvers should be asked to explain themselves to their local members. If this results in deselection then it is for the members to decide not vague analogies of association that others in the general public voted for them. If for example in the case of Frank Field he offers himself up for election under a different banner and wins then good luck to him. Perhaps the wrong result as far as the Labour Party is concerned but an example of true democracy.

[Stanley]

Tiz, when I referred to a vicious attack I was thinking about the media campaign.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times......" I think Damon Runyon used that before Fleming and possibly Ben Franklin coined it originally.
P is right I reckon, there is a fashion in politics at the moment for clandestine action. This was always there in individuals but is more obvious now because like many of the public, many politicians are disillusioned by the present ethos in politics, the lack of principle and ethics, the erosion of the public service principle and the concentration on self interest. This breeds malcontents and they tend to cluster, hey presto! a Fifth Column.
May and some of her acolytes appear to be under the impression that the Chequers 'agreement' is still viable. Pity that Mr Barnier disagrees......
Dead on cue to reinforce the above, see THIS BBC report about his latest attack on T May. My impression is that the Brexiteers are united in a strategy that assumes that if they can trash and hamper May's strategy this is the best route to what they want, a hard and disorganised Brexit. I often wonder if she regrets holding the hand of 'friendship' out to the rebels when she took over the leadership. Same problem as Corbyn actually, he made the same mistake when he got his leadership. Harold could have taught them a lot about the necessity for being ruthless when the occasion demands it.

[PanBiker]

An viewpoint from a Jewish Labour Councillor:

"Frankly fed up

I am a newly elected Labour councillor who is Jewish, in a ward bordering Birkenhead. Frank Field MP chose to use anti-Semitism as his excuse to resign from the Labour whip. I am frankly fed up of anti-Jewish racism being used as a political weapon to attack Labour.

Since Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader a few years ago, my lived Jewish experience is a ‘broad church’ Labour Party showing solidarity and support to the many as well as the Jews.

More than 100 members from all wings of Wirral Labour Party worked together to elect me, in our successful local by-election this month. We spoke with over 2,100 residents and I heard no-one raise the issue of anti-Semitism.

Unlike Frank Field, my constituents’ highest priority is ending cruel Conservative government cuts to services we all rely on. The New Ferry part of my ward was devastated by a huge explosion in March last year and the government’s response is shockingly pathetic.

Cllr Jo Bird
Labour councillor for Brombrough and New Ferry"

[Stanley]

A timely opinion Ian from Jo Bird. I suspect there is a silent majority of Jewish party supporters out there who wish that the chattering classes would stop rabbiting on about anti-Semitism, it's the nature of the beast that the more it is referred to, the more it grows. In the olden days there was just as much internal dissent in parties and conflict between them but they largely kept it out of the news so as not to damage support. Today I suspect that the search for '15 minutes of fame' on social media is the spur that drives all this self-destructive behaviour. Time was that it only affected one party at a time, today they are all in the same boat.
I wish they'd stop sniping at each other and get down to pure politics, policies and effective Parliamentary debate, we could then have functioning opposition. As it is all we have is a shambles and I would remind you of the origin of that word, a slaughterhouse!
See THIS BBC report. I hope they adopt the full text including all the examples and let common sense decide what is anti-Semitic in any future debate instead of this absurd procedural wrangle. That might be a good place to start!

[Tizer]

I hope they adopt the full text including all the examples and let common sense decide what is anti-Semitic in any future debate instead of this absurd procedural wrangle. That might be a good place to start!

That's what I was asking for in my earlier post. I can't see any problem with the definition or the examples. Accept it and let's see if any problem arises then deal with it. At the same time, the other political parties should confirm that they accept it too.

[plaques]

I think things will become abundantly clear that anti-Semitism is really just a side issue. What they are after is getting rid of Corbyn. Remember it wasn't all that long ago that the NEC ruled that Corbyn couldn't take part in the second leadership ballot because he hadn't enough backers. Being the incumbent leader didn't count. It took a court ruling to get him on the ballot which he won with an increased majority. The anti-Corbyn groups still exist within the Labour Party and they are willing to lose the next election to get their way. The big question is should they allowed to remain in the Labour Party?