POLITICS CORNER

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 29 Sep 2017, 08:47

There are many divisions in society, especially the political and religious ones, but I think we are beginning to see the greatest division opening up between selfish and unselfish.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 29 Sep 2017, 09:08

We will always get people who stand behind their views through thick and thin. Listened to a self employed driver saying that since the downturn he had never had a rise and he had suffered three cut in wages. He was now working 56 hours to earn the same as 40 hours 8 years ago. But eventually we will get back to the good times.!! Then there was the gent who expressed the opinion that socialism was really communism and by extension Corbyn was a communist and who ever heard of a communist country doing well? It probably never crossed his mind to use the same logic on the other end of the spectrum, capitalism leads to fascism and who ever heard of a dictator doing well for the country. Extreme poverty led to the Russian revolution and the Terrors under Stalin while the fascists movement led to Hitler and the holocaust. Austerity is getting us nowhere except in creating greater inequality between the top and the bottom. Time for a change?

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 30 Sep 2017, 04:02

Exactly P. Looked at objectively the nearest thing to original pure Communism as envisaged by Marx, Engels et al is Christianity. Remember "Love thy neighbour" and "Give all you have to the poor"? This original form was degraded for political reasons by later dictators. For a direct comparison look at the dire results that followed when pure Christianity was modified by Rome producing the Crusades against other belief systems because they threatened Rome's hegemony in Europe. Inconvenient truths the repercussions of which we are still dealing with. No accident that there is a strong flavour of Nonconformism in the early Labour movements.
See THIS for a report on opinions about the progress or otherwise in the Brexit talks. Jean-Claude Junker agrees with those of us who have doubts and says that there isn't a cat in hell's chance of there being enough agreement in October to trigger a move forward to the other matters May wants to pursue. Meanwhile May talks in platitudes and aspirations with no substance. She and Davies can be as avuncular and emollient as they like but it's very hard to escape the reality, whatever your political views. The big mistake here from the beginning was that this whole process is entrusted to one political party, the Tories, when it should have been a joint agreed effort divorced from dogma and entrenched 19th century views. I advocated a 'war coalition' model but instead we have a divided party running the show which believes that anyone who isn't a Tory has 'communist' leanings. To make things even worse they believe in keeping the electorate in the dark because 'they can't possibly understand' and use cunning wheezes and spin as a management tool. What could possibly go wrong.......
In case you hadn't noticed October starts tomorrow.
Later.... I see that Boris has stuck his oar in again on the eve of the party conference. See THIS for a BBC report on his article in the Sun. I wonder how secure Theresa May feels as she goes into the weekend.....
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 01 Oct 2017, 05:55

I think THIS Guardian article covers most of the points that have struck me about the Tory conference. There is nothing here to give comfort to them, in domestic policies they are playing catch-up with Labour and to put it bluntly, their Brexit strategy and cohesion of view on it in the party, is a running disaster. On the face of it there is no way they are going to get any agreement with the EU and the inevitable conclusion is that at the end of the two year negotiation window we will have no option but to walk over the cliff edge of 'Hard Brexit' with all that implies. Add the widespread belief that there is going to be open revolt against May and members are going to be faced with a choice, stumble on as they are now or stab her in the back, open the possibility of another General Election and put their jobs at risk. Guess what they will do, as Richard pointed out, they will look to survival, cobble together a way of continuing as we are and condemn the country to the worst of all worlds.
I always forecast, when Cameron was 'in power' (but not quite....) that their policies were going to backfire and trouble was in the offing. Even I didn't foresee just how badly they would handle matters.
The Tories love to rubbish Labour on their policies and internal disputes. It would be a reckless and foolish Tory who took this line now. In every area but one, Labour is in the driving seat. The one place where we need some clarity is what their emergency plan is for Brexit if they gain power.... And spare me the crap about 'The Will of the People'. What we need now is a survival strategy, that's where the Tories have led us to. What an indictment.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 01 Oct 2017, 10:41

This 10-minuet Point of View on radio 4 was very good:

The Triumph of Tribalism
Andrew Sullivan on how America has become "a truly tribal society". "I've lived here since the Reagan era", he writes, "and there have been plenty of divides. But none quite as tribal or as rooted in non-negotiable identity as this one". He warns of what the outcome might be and reminds the listener that a liberal democracy is always a precarious enterprise.

Get the podcast here: LINK

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 02 Oct 2017, 02:24

Perhaps the best comparison I heard between the Labour and Tory conferences was a commentator who said Labour was like a family celebration while the Tory one was like a corporate event.....
Later as the morning news comes in. See THIS for a Mirror article that covers most of the bases. Apart from getting internal flak, bodies like the UK Chambers of Commerce are attacking the lack of transparency and the uncertainty about Brexit. They claim a minimum transition period is needed to enable business to cope.
What puzzles me is that despite the proclaimed adherence to austerity and repeated claims that there is no 'money tree', Hammond is throwing money about like a drunken sailor, students, the North, housing are all promised future funding. Even the bung to the DUP has raised its ugly head again.
This is not a united party and the criticism that is coming to the surface is ferocious. Who'd want to be Mrs May......
The only thing that is stopping melt-down is the fact that as things stand the Tories are unelectable. You might wonder why this doesn't trigger a vote of no confidence in the House. I have an idea that the view in the opposition parties is that it is better to let the Tories carry on digging and that their position can only get worse. Meanwhile, we poor voters can only sit back and watch a picture of complete confusion and incompetence.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 02 Oct 2017, 13:32

Michael Heseltine on YouTube Link.. Makes it clear he is not a lover of the Corbyn or the Labour Party but then goes on to say that the Conservative Party has got it all wrong and by being so deeply divided within the Cabinet and the Parliamentary Party if they carry on like this they will lose the next election. On Boris Johnson he says that in normal circumstances he would have been sacked but if Mrs May did it at the moment it would probably bring the government down. Best to leave him where he is unless he makes a complete fool of himself. The whole tone of the interview was not very good for the Conservatives.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 03 Oct 2017, 04:11

"if Mrs May did it at the moment it would probably bring the government down." That's almost certain P I reckon. If this was a Labour government the right wing press would be screaming 'incompetence' and 'Lame duck'. Funny they can't see things as clearly at the moment. Heseltine isn't the only Tory who will be having doubts....
The odds are that in four weeks we will still have no agreement. In the unlikely event there is one, the terms will be horrendous and a massive argument will break out. Meanwhile, in the middle of that Hammond will be shaking the money tree and performing more give-aways in his budget/financial report. If we have enemies out there in EU land they must be laughing fit to bust!
Don't lose sight of the fact that it was Cameron's Catastrophe that got us where we are and all their 'policies' have failed.....
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 03 Oct 2017, 08:49

Former Tory MP Matthew Parris takes the same line as Heseltine. He's still a Tory MP but a liberal one and he believes the party is heading for disaster.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 03 Oct 2017, 09:09

I've just heard Jean Claude Junker's latest news about the negotiations, the only firm information we have unfortunately. He says quite definitely that not enough progress has been made due to the lack of concrete proposals from the UK.
Theresa May is telling everyone that the fact that Boris is rocking the boat is OK because she doesn't want to be surrounded by yes-men. Yeah, right.....
I don't see how this situation can go on.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 04 Oct 2017, 02:43

The EU leaders meet for a summit in the next two weeks and one of the items on the agenda is progress or otherwise with the Brexit talks. It looks as though the negotiators will get their card marked. We may get some accurate information then because we are getting nothing from our leaders but motivational claptrap.
David Davis says in effect that he isn't bothered about the outcome of the negotiations as he will have retired from politics before the deadline. Is this man fully motivated?
Have a look at THIS and ask yourself of Boris ever engages his brain before speaking. He has provoked outrage by saying that Sirte (The Syrian city taken back from ISIS) could be the next Dubai 'One the dead bodies have been cleared'.
Later.... The outcry against Boris increases and there is a general feeling that this is a party that has lost its way and has no viable policies that will act quick enough to reassure the public that they are not voting for 'The Nasty Party'. Personally, I don't see how Theresa May can say that she wants a society that is fair to everyone while presiding over continuing cuts and austerity measures. It smacks of rank hypocrisy to me.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 04 Oct 2017, 10:11

This morning the Telegraph call Boris `The Roaring Lion' and says he's `channelling Churchill'. Winston must be turning in his grave. Still, it tells us something about the Telegraph.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 05 Oct 2017, 03:28

My stomach churned when I heard Jeremy Hunt excusing Boris for the Sirte comment by saying "It's just Boris". Nonsense, he is simply an insensitive and bigoted buffoon.... The Bullingdon Syndrome.

Image

I thought the reaction to President May's conference speech was very instructive. It reminded me of Ian Duncan Smith's "I am a quiet man" disaster. I know she had a cold, that can happen to anyone but the speech was a ragbag of platitudes and aspirations which we all know will never get translated into action. It was hypocritical as well, they will continue to hammer the poorest. And yet.... they gave her a 'standing ovation', not because they support her but because there is no viable alternative and changing leaders in the middle of the Brexit disaster means half of them are automatically out of a job.
There is a direct parallel with 1919 when the government was running scared of a Russian style revolution. They latched on to 'homes fit for heroes' and brought in one of the most enlightened Housing Acts ever seen. It was called 'The Addison Act' after the minister in charge and was effective but expensive. In 1921 when it became clear that revolution was not in the air it was scrapped to save money. The sudden conversion to supporting Council Housing again is a re-run of that act and will suffer the same fate if they stay in power.
God knows why but Harold popped into my head. "Events Dear Boy!" And another thing about Harold, he popped up yesterday because of his record of house-building when the Tories ousted Labour. Then as now, public pressure forced them to continues the post war rebuilding of the housing stock and Harold actually built more council houses than Labour but what is often forgotten is that they built to a lower standard which made it possible.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tripps » 05 Oct 2017, 09:35

Past members of The Bullingdon Club

What a crew. It's enough to make you consider supporting Mr Corbyn. :smile:
Born to be mild. . .

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 06 Oct 2017, 03:13

I agree with you David, never seen that list before. Not what you would call representative of the proletariat! A bastion of privilege and if there's one thing I hate it's that! No wonder they were frightened of Revolution after 1919.
Downing Street becomes even more shrill and vociferous in defence of May. Not a good sign, I wonder whether they have started to get quotes for removal....... Notable that the opposition parties are standing back and watching with bated breath. No need to attack the Tories at the moment, they are doing the job themselves very efficiently. Meanwhile, the clock is ticking and the EU heads meet shortly. I think that technically speaking we are in deep s**t.
See THIS for a BBC report on the intervention of Grant Shapps who has been collecting the names of those who think Theresa May ought to be asked politely to go. This is surreal.
The Guardian makes a comparison with IDS who was asked to resign as party leader a month after a disastrous conference speech. Our local MP does his usual exercise in puffery regaling us with his delight in attending the Party Conference in Manchester but doesn't say a word about the leadership question or 'That Speech'. On another page he is pictured with his close companion Boris....
Later, Gove is on 'Today' telling us that the election result was a triumph, Theresa May is a symbol of 'grace and grit' and the fact that it was the Whips who blew the whistle on the resignation plot is a 'boring story'. Right........ so that's all right then. (Oh, and Boris is doing a good job as Foreign Secretary.... as is the rest of the Cabinet team.)
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 07 Oct 2017, 04:40

The Tories continue the publicity campaign to assure us that May is a strong, competent and stable leader. really?
See THIS for a BBC report on the latest dire economic news. The 'Economic Miracle' has feet of clay and this report by the OBR lays bare not only the unreliability of official performance figures but the economic conundrum that is gnawing away at GDP and ensuring that until this is addressed we will continue to decline.
My own take on this disaster is that the root of it is in lack of investment in early education and later training. One of the reasons for this is that an elitist political system doesn't appreciate the benefits of a stable skilled electorate, they tend to be stroppy!
I heard what I think is a very perceptive comment on R4. Basically suggesting that Theresa May is "One crisis away from losing the Leadership". That could be next week when the 27 EU ministers meet and one of the items on the agenda is Brexit. I have an idea that they might be quite abrasive and blow the gaffe on the 'negotiations' by saying that in practical terms no progress at all has been made. This is going to put a lot of pressure on the negotiation team, their tactic of still trying to modify the process instead of accepting reality and getting on with the job is going to backfire dramatically.
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 07 Oct 2017, 10:11

Meanwhile back in the real world, Pendle Constituency Labour Party set the ball rolling for selection of our PPC (Prospective Parliamentary Candidate). It was the first step in the procedure last night with a Special all members GC (General Committee) meeting to elect the team that will oversee the process. Party rules are that the SC (Selection Committee) must have a minimum of six members and a maximum of ten, We opted for the latter to give a broader selection of experience for the team. There was a Regional NEC rep in attendance to oversee the meeting.

Five members are automatically included in the team (four from the CLP officers and one who will be allocated as an NEC representative). That leaves five to be elected from the general membership. Party rule says that the SC should be gender balanced, demographically representative of the constituency and where possible BAME (British Black, Asian, Minority Ethnic) and LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender) inclusive. We have a very diverse constituency and after the ballot of all members present we managed to produce a Selection Committee that was fully representative in all respects and slightly weighted on the female side with six females and four males on the team.

Let the fun begin, Pendle is a key marginal and is likely to attract a lot of prospective candidates. The SC team elected last night is there to oversee the selection procedure, formulate questions for interview and apply those at interview after short listing by the branches. Hustings will follow with all members invited to attend and final selection by a general member vote.

Contrast this with a nod from the 1922 Committee that put May into position with no mandate at all
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tripps » 07 Oct 2017, 10:39

I think you are a little behind the curve with LGBT. More commonly used recently is LGBTQIA

The Q word now seems to be mainstream, having been reclaimed by the community. On wonders what former greats, Bevan, Attlee et al, in the Party would have made of it all. :smile:
Born to be mild. . .

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 07 Oct 2017, 10:46

I wonder what Stanley Holloway would have made of it.

MY WORD, YOU DO LOOK QUEER
(Bob Weston / Bert Lee)
Stanley Holloway (Monologue)


I've been very poorly but now I feel prime,
I've been out today for the very first time.
I felt like a lad as I walked down the road,
Then I met Old Jones and he said, 'Well I'm blowed!'
My word you do look queer!
My word you do look queer!
Oh, dear! You look dreadful: you've had a near shave,
You look like a man with one foot in the grave.'
I said, 'Bosh! l'm better; it's true I've been ill.'
He said, 'I'm delighted you're better, but still,
I wish you'd a thousand for me in your will.
My word, you do look queer!'

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 07 Oct 2017, 12:26

Tripps wrote:
07 Oct 2017, 10:39
I think you are a little behind the curve with LGBT. More commonly used recently is LGBTQIA
We had quite enough on with the explanation of the selection as it was without including another curve. :confused: The explanation within the rulebook took longer than the actual procedure of voting, counting and declaration of result. :smile:
Ian

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 08 Oct 2017, 03:05

Perhaps they should add NLP (No Longer Participating)! It's a bit like the modern obsession with sterility and 'safety'. Self-defeating in the end.
I watched a member of the 1922 Committee on C4 news last night pedalling like hell to 'prove' that there was no challenge to May, it was the normal 'rough and tumble' of politics, that Brexit was going well, the economy was fine and that May was a brilliant Leader.... All the time he was speaking I could only wonder why he was doing this. Was it a healthy regard for his job or does he want Brownie Points with the party for sycophancy? If I remember rightly he quoted D'Israeli at one point "Damn your principles! Stick to your party." and I reflected that some of the best constituency MPs and statesmen I have seen put principle before everything. They were all in the 'awkward squad'.
The same man rubbished the opinion of Michael Heseltine who appeared on the programme before him who said that now May had withdrawn support from the Brexit team and re-assumed responsibility herself she was vulnerable and it was doubtful whether she would survive to see Brexit out and certainly not until 2022.
Of the two, I give more credence to Hesser!
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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 08 Oct 2017, 09:54

To anyone who didn't Radio 4's `Broadcasting House' programme this morning I recommend listening to the section with John Sargent and Peter Hennessy which starts about 10-15 minutes in after the news. It's a clip from their appearance at the Cheltenham Festival.

`Political sages Peter Hennessy and John Sergeant, and broadcaster Paddy O’Connell, take a witty and irreverent look at the latest headlines and breaking political news. Join the BBC Radio 4 Broadcasting House trio as they map the twists and turns in what has been another extraordinary year for British politics.' LINK

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by chinatyke » 08 Oct 2017, 10:41

Tripps wrote:
07 Oct 2017, 10:39
I think you are a little behind the curve with LGBT. More commonly used recently is LGBTQIA
What a queer name to give something. :confused:
Maybe they will include P for poofters next on their quest for the full alphabet.

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 08 Oct 2017, 11:23

Personally I think LGBT covers most bases.
Ian

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Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 08 Oct 2017, 12:06

China. Keep me out of it!!!

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