POLITICS CORNER

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 90439
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley »

See THIS for a report that says that consumer confidence in the UK is declining slowly. Some reports say that it is 'firm but fragile'. Either way, not really a signal of a robust economy let alone a 'miracle'.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 18867
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer »

There was an interesting brief debate between journalist Patience Wheatcroft and former BoE economist Andrew Sentance on the Today programme this morning. Sentance claiming Britain is doing well but Wheatcroft pointing to the massive personal debt and people having to take multiple jobs or work in the so-called gig economy.

Wheatcroft has also spoken out for a second referendum on Brexit and has been demonised by Daily Mail editor Paul Dacre. Coincidentally also on Today this morning John Cleese criticised the British press as being rated 33rd out of 33 countries and was angry about Dacre and Murdoch trying to run (ruin?) Britain.
Nullius in verba: On the word of no one (Motto of the Royal Society)
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 90439
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley »

I heard those two also Tiz. I thought he was very dismissive about the problems many had and was more interested in encouraging savers. He appears to be unaware of the growth in homeless families, rough sleeping and the increase in use of food banks. Some healthy economy!
There is a distinct lack of compassion and principle in the higher echelons......
If anyone is interested in my opinion Jeremy Corbyn is making a big mistake putting what looks like personal loyalty above principle in respect of the Willsman affair and ant-Semitism as a whole. High time he came back to earth and acted like a strong leader.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
User avatar
plaques
Donor
Posts: 8094
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques »

Stanley wrote: 01 Aug 2018, 03:18 Willsman affair and ant-Semitism as a whole.
The whole anti-Semitism affair should have far more debate than newspaper headlines that are designed to knock Corbyn than look at the overall problem. One thing is clear is that the Jewish community especially in Europe have suffered untold atrocities for the last 150 years years culminating in Hitler's 'final solution'. Perhaps largely forgotten is that Christian Zionism had a very strong following in Britain and along with the Americans were instrumental in creating Israel to fulfill the biblical prophecy. Since its inception America and Britain has been supporting Israel largely to gain a base in the Muslim dominated area and creating unrest to a degree that they would have been counted as war crimes if they had been carried out in the 1940's. Willsman statement "Jewish "Trump fanatics" are behind allegations of anti-Semitism in Labour." Is a step too far but reflects the feeling in American Republicanism that Israel can do no wrong and any comment about what Israel is doing can be overridden as Anti-Semitism rhetoric to be dismissed out of hand. Similarly, anything that smells of socialism should be given the same treatment.
User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 18867
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer »

We all know that the right wing press and Tories want to stir up the fuss about Labour and anti-semitism but Corbyn doesn't help matters when we hear so little from him. Why doesn't he get himself out there and give his view on this and other issues? He's the Opposition Leader, the radio, TV and press will fall over themselves to interview him but we hardly ever see or hear him. I can't remember ever hearing him interviewed on the Today programme for example. He must have been on at some point but I can't remember it. It's always John McDonnell instead. The Times runs a 2-page interview every Saturday and has had people from all political parties but I can't remember Corbyn being featured. Do you remember those `Where's Wally' games? Well we need a Where's Jeremy game now! :smile:
Nullius in verba: On the word of no one (Motto of the Royal Society)
User avatar
plaques
Donor
Posts: 8094
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques »

Corbyn probably spends his time campaigning to local groups rather than trying to avoid the man traps set by the 'independent' press. One can almost guarantee that the big splash headline will not reflect the actual content of what was under discussion. The headline on John Prescott's comments Link. was totally negative and opposite to what he said.
Here is a short YouTube presentation given by Corbyn via a BBC report. Link.
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 90439
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley »

I agree with all of you. I watched that interview P with Hartley Brewer and like the rest of them they are chasing the shock/horror for coverage and not addressing what is happening. I can understand Jeremy avoiding the media, they have proved to be no friends of his, but it's now time to face them all with a clear major statement.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 90439
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley »

The BofE says an interest rate rise is needed 'to keep wage growth down' just when that's exactly what the workers need. For the first time for 30 years on average we are spending more than we are earning and borrowing/debt continue to rise.
See THIS for an analysis of how mobile devices are used. The figure that grabbed me was that 'the average person' spends 2 hours and 28 minutes a day on their phones. Could this be what is hampering growth in productivity?
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 90439
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley »

I watch the May campaign of trying to split what she sees as the 'opposition' in that she's going to meet Macron and schmooze him. Does she not grasp the truth that Macron is a rabid Europhobe and he's doing what he sees as best for France? High time to step back and review the whole process. Hunt isn't helping by making vague threats about the end of the world if the UK isn't given a sweetheart deal.
The Corbyn plan of a major speech on anti-Semitism at the Museum of Jewish History is imaginative but may be seen as a step too far by those committed to hating him. I applaud the initiative and wish them well but it's high risk.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
User avatar
plaques
Donor
Posts: 8094
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques »

Stanley wrote: 03 Aug 2018, 02:51 The Corbyn plan of a major speech on anti-Semitism at the Museum of Jewish History
I doubt if they will let him speak. The other more negative groups will find all sorts of reasons for not allowing to take the platform. They would rather nibble away with accusations and innuendo than listen to what he has to say and find that the differences are so small that it may bust their bubble.
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 90439
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley »

You may well be right P. See THYIS Guardian article which I think has reported fairly. This is a huge can of worms. I think that the bottom line is that the Party wants to make it clear that criticism of the Israeli government on some of their policies is not anti-Semitism but legitimate comment, I agree with this. Why don't they allow the full definitions but point out that they make this distinction?
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 18867
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer »

The Mogg is now accusing Mark Carney of leading `Project Fear' just because the BoE governor said on the Today programme that the possibility of a no-deal Brexit is "uncomfortably high" and "highly undesirable". If you tell the truth then the Brexiteers say you're trying to instil fear. The Moggles will be calling Carney a traitor next.
Nullius in verba: On the word of no one (Motto of the Royal Society)
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 90439
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley »

I completely agree with you Tiz. I heard the Mogg and his mates preaching that message and reflected that Carney can't win whatever he does but I think he's a smart cookie and I support him even though I don't wholly agree with the interest rate rise. What he said seems to me to be a very level headed assessment.
As for Project Fear, wasn't it the Brexiteers who started this?
I was listening to another level headed man, an ex-ambassador I think. He was saying that he thinks common sense is going to prevail in the end and we will not simply crash out. He was persuasive and I hope he's right......
See THIS account of what Liam Fox is saying. This is exactly the sort of statement that shouldn't be being made at the moment, he puts all the 'blame' on Barnier. Exactly what Richard predicted. These fools should be muzzled!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 90439
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley »

I strongly recommend you go to iPlayer and listen to the ten minutes of 'A Point Of View'. Michael Morpurgo argues it's time to think again over Brexit. A very clear and persuasive voice. I wish everyone was forced to listen to it. He makes absolute sense!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 18867
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer »

Stanley wrote: 05 Aug 2018, 07:57 I wish everyone was forced to listen to it.
This is the underlying problem. Those who most need to know the facts are the ones who don't listen. That part of the population that has no interest in critical analysis and constructive criticism. They know they're right even when they're wrong. Like Trump, they regard everything else as fake facts. They're a self-propagating phenomenon, a bit like peat moor or shale beds catching fire. It reminds me of the time in the 1990s when a paediatrician was hounded out of a south coast town by the locals because they didn't know the difference between the words paediatrician and paedophile and wouldn't listen when others told them they'd got it wrong.
Nullius in verba: On the word of no one (Motto of the Royal Society)
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 90439
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley »

I remember that incident and agree with you entirely Tiz. The politicians exploit this weakness in situations like the Brexit Referendum.
The present row over anti-Semitism is a good example of intransigence on all sides and the inability (or unwillingness) to clearly appreciate the problem. As you said elsewhere Tiz, There is no distinction being made between the fact of being Jewish and the actions of an often flawed and repressive Israeli State. It is the product of laziness and blind acceptance of propaganda. That's why I like the logical approach of the good investigative historians. They tend to reach fairer and more accurate conclusions by dispassionately analysing the evidence. Politicians seem to argue from fixed positions, a circumstance any marriage counsellor knows well! (Come to think, Brexit is a divorce)
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 18867
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer »

Talking of `blind acceptance of propaganda', you will have heard Bernard Jenkin telling us all on the Today programme this morning that a no-deal Brexit will be OK. One of his arguments was `the experts all told us the Millenium Bug would cause a catastrophe but that didn't happen, did it?'. He's now being well and truly rubbished on Twitter by people pointing out that the the Millenium Bug meltdown didn't occur because of all the planning and IT work carried about to ensure it would never happen. Jenkin is probably one of those people who claimed the ozone hole danger was a hoax because it never happened when the real story is that all the pressure put on politicians and companies by technical experts got the CFCs banned.

Fortunately the programme also had its Real Facts reporter who could counter Jenkin's claims. One point that was missed concerns Jenkin's claim that we could simply have a no-deal Brexit by informal agreement that each side would carry on with the usual EU regulations. Jenkin seems to forget we are not dealing with a single country but with what would be a union of 27 member countries. I'm sure that Bruff would point out why would these countries approve such an informal agreement for the UK when they have to abide by all the other aspects of being a full member of the EU?

Later...I've just remembered, I saw a lovely comment in the Twitter feed about the Jenkin interview. It said `The best deal is a no-Brexit deal'. :smile:
Nullius in verba: On the word of no one (Motto of the Royal Society)
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 90439
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley »

`The best deal is a no-Brexit deal'. I'll second that Peter!
What grabbed me yesterday was the appalling wording of the statement Labour issued to announce that common sense had prevailed and the witch hunt of Margaret Hodge was being dropped. In order to save face some incompetent bugger implied that Hodge had 'expressed regret' which she hadn't. Cue an immediate response from her lawyers pointing this out and reiterating her original position. What I'd like to know is whether Corbyn approved this wording or was it some 'spokesperson' acting independently? If it was he or she should be sacked and another statement made. If Corbyn did know and let it pass I am disgusted. Another example of how incompetence and chaos is rife in politics and in this case has made the position even worse. Is it any wonder that we are in the mess we see all around us.
I'm a bit late with this one but I noted the opinion that in order to make HS2 effective, £50billion must be spent on transport links in the Northern Workhouse...... The disparity between what is spent per head in London and in the North is grotesque. Grayling tells us it is all in hand.... Really?
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 18867
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer »

Just before the US election I related how an annoyed mid-West republican supporter had told a Times journalist "Is Trump really the best that the Republican Party can do?" I feel we are in the same position now. Michael Howard was quoted yesterday saying we're in an awful situation, "Our only choice is going to be Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn". Both of these are hated by many in their own party. The two big parties are badly fractured, perhaps mortally wounded. The only way out I can envisage is the formation of new parties. A fresh start. But will it happen in an ordered, constructive manner or will we see the old parties collapse into disarray and have to go through civil unrest until the new parties emerge?
Nullius in verba: On the word of no one (Motto of the Royal Society)
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 90439
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley »

Whilst I think that Corbyn would be a better bet than Johnson, I broadly agree with you Peter. We need a new spirit in politics and more emphasis on ethics, principle and the good of the country instead of self. However, looking back at the long list of failed 'new parties', many of them in the troubled 1930s surprise surprise, and thinking about the SDP and UKIP, the probability seems to be more on evolution than revolution.
As to what the trigger will be..... the more egregious the behaviour of those in power and the growing recognition of the prevalence of dishonesty and self interest, the more the pressure will build. The case of Bojo and the letter boxes springs to mind, there seems to be a fairly strong stream of opinion that recognises this ploy for what it is, Boris making sure that the far right are sure he is 'the right stuff' in preparation for the factional fighting that will inevitably ensue in a leadership election. Boris has evidently put his money on the far right reactionaries.
The question is when will the stand-off that leads to change happen and what will be the route.
In the short term it could be a General Election but I think it more likely that it will happen if, as some of us suspect, Brexit turns out to be an unmitigated disaster. It will take a few years for that to happen. In that case there will be a reaction and that's when we will find out who the new flavour of the month is.
Whatever the case, it could be rough because at the moment I think that reaction, tradition and self interest are the ruling factors in most of the people who will be competing for power and we need a new cadre of imaginative, younger, less tainted candidates. Problem is our system favours those who already hold the power.
It's a bloody mess isn't it.....
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 90439
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley »

The news from Westminster is the usual click-bait, managed rigorously of course, it wouldn't do for the proles to learn things such as a poorly attended debate just before prorogation that passed a measure giving anonymity to MPs accused of any wrong doing. It doesn't apply to the Lords! How do I know this? My Private Eye arrived yesterday and they have published a report on it. PE has a raft of stories that expose a horrendous state of affairs in the 'Mother of Parliaments'. Do I believe them, of course I do because time and time again the stories they break are picked up by other media and eventually surface in the news. Besides, if the stories were unfounded they would be sued and it doesn't happen.
So my advice is get PE regularly and read it, It's a depressing read but we need to know what's actually going on. Sources like PE and Huffington Post are doing a good job!
Did you see the TV interview of Conservative ladies who were unanimous in supporting Boris and his 'letter box' article? Frightening that such attitudes are strongly held.....
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
User avatar
Tripps
VIP Member
Posts: 8810
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 14:56

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tripps »

Stanley wrote: 09 Aug 2018, 03:58 it wouldn't do for the proles to learn things such as a poorly attended debate just before prorogation that passed a measure giving anonymity to MPs accused of any wrong doing.
I think they sneaked it in quietly, and the vote was about 79 to 20 I think I read somewhere. How do they get away with it? Lethargy from the proles I guess. Perhaps I'll see who voted for and against, and, more important, who couldn't be bothered.
Stanley wrote: 09 Aug 2018, 03:58 So my advice is get PE regularly and read it
I do, and have done for decades. Though it's bit of an anchronism these days. It's dual purpose - I often say 'I'm on the Private Eye diet' - in that I record my weight every other Wednesday when P.E. arrives. :smile:

I'd recommend the Guido Fawkes website too. The modern equivalent of P.Eye.

PS - I've looked a bit closer - seems there was a division on whether MP's should be named in enquiries, and it was defeated by 79 votes to 22.

Hansard

Those In favour of concealing MP's misdeeds included Nigel Evans (quite understandable) Jacob Rees Mogg - what is he hiding?), and one Andrew Stephenson. It is said that the names of those currently involved in such enquiries were removed very soon afterwards.

The oleagenous one can breathe again. :smile:
Born to be mild
Sapere Aude
Ego Lego
Preferred pronouns - Thou, Thee, Thy, Thine
My non-working days are Monday - Sunday
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 90439
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley »

Nice one David. Funny that AS hasn't mentioned this in his weekly ra ra article in the BET.....
At one time my name was missing from the birth registry in Stockport. Something to do with the fact I am a 100% certified bastard. I asked if this meant I could have all the tax and NI back........
Like David I wonder what it is that they are afraid of.
I see that TM is being criticised on her curtseying skills..... Shock horror!!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 90439
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley »

Two small consequences of Brexit that have slipped through without comment. The operations centre of NAVFOR, (the EU naval force) which runs the bloc's anti-piracy mission off the Somali coast goed to Rota in Spain after March 29th. The Maritime Centre Horn of Africa which is also under NAVFOR will swap London for the French port of Brest.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!
User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 18867
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer »

Another problem that hasn't been mentioned enough is that it's EU funding that has kept British science at the forefront while funds from within the UK have been on the decline. The UK government doesn't seem to be planning to make up the difference and all the Brexiteers will tell you is that the funding can come from Boris Johnson's imaginary red bus windfall.
Nullius in verba: On the word of no one (Motto of the Royal Society)
Post Reply

Return to “Current Affairs & Comment”