POLITICS CORNER

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 38204
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 28 Jul 2017, 03:28

And who apart from vanity projects, will go to any lengths to avoid expense and responsibility. It took The Great Stink to bring about the rebuilding of the London sewage system once it affected Parliament. This lot can't even understand that they are breathing the poisonous air as well!
At first glance the headline on THIS BBC report looks promising but then you realise that compared with last year it is crap and that all the pressures are downwards. This is going to loom even larger as the economic storm clouds grow. Meanwhile, our leaders are on holiday........
See THIS for a report on Trump hijacking the Jamboree of the Boy Scouts for political rhetoric. Look at the bile spilling out from the White House and wonder how long this can go on. Add to all this the fact that only two senators voted to defend the President on the vote to impose further sanctions on Russia. This is a President at war with the government and it's no good to anyone.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
PanBiker
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 6630
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 13:07
Location: Barnoldswick - In the West Riding of Yorkshire, always was, always will be.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by PanBiker » 28 Jul 2017, 08:51

He has just lost the vote to repeal Obama Care as well.
Ian

User avatar
Tripps
Senior Member
Posts: 2362
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 14:56

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tripps » 28 Jul 2017, 10:33

Venezuela doesn't seem to be doing too well at the moment. Venezuela

Interestingly whilst channel hopping recently I came across, on R4X, a retrospective on the sainted Tony Benn, during which he made the point that in capitalist Nigeria the oil revenues had been squandered by a corrupt government whilst in socialist Venezuela, President Chavez had nationalised the oil industry, and invested the income into schools and hospitals.

I had always assumed Benn to be wrong about nearly everything - in fact because he was for not joining the common market in the early seventies I voted to join. I wonder what he would have said now. :smile:
Born to be mild. . .

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 38204
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 29 Jul 2017, 03:02

The US, though purporting not to be an imperial power has always interfered in South and Central America and the successive socialist regimes in Venezuela have been anathema to them. Look up The Monroe Doctrine and the role of ITT and United Fruit Farms in the region. Remember Chile and what happened there when the CIA engineered a coup and put Pinochet in power..... Cuba and the Bay of Pigs.....
It looks as though Phil Hammond has taken over leadership of the Tories......
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

plaques
Donor
Posts: 2112
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 29 Jul 2017, 07:14

Goldilocks and the three bears. (Hammond, Johnson, Gove, ) And who's been sitting in MaY chair ?

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 38204
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 30 Jul 2017, 04:00

Of all the candidates for the Tory Leadership I fancy boring Hammond at the moment. Perhaps this explains why he is so unpopular with everyone..... One thing is certain, far too much time is being spent on internal matters when all the evidence is that the Brexit process is not going well. We don't seem to have a plan. If we have they aren't letting anyone know, not even their EU counterparts! There comes a time in any negotiation where cards have to be put on the table. The EU have been perfectly transparent about their strategy, they've even published the Directives on line but we haven't, almost certainly because we haven't got an agreed position yet.
Beware of the 'Events Dear Boy' factor, I have a feeling our hand might be forced.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

plaques
Donor
Posts: 2112
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 30 Jul 2017, 07:56

And I thought our Cabinet were all agreed that there would be a two year transition period. Unfortunately I don't think its been agreed by the EU negotiating committee. Then suddenly we've got a Fox in the chicken cabinet who is pulling the feathers off Hammond saying its against the referendum intent. "...and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth." (Gettysburg Address). Sounds like we have got a civil war running. Now we all know whats happening we can sit back an be reassured that it will all come right in the end. Nothing like a bit of transparent government to make you feel at ease.

User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 7533
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 30 Jul 2017, 08:48

Matthew Parris, a Conservative of course, has devoted his Saturday article in The Times to criticising the Conservative Party, blaming them for our current problems. He's not wasting his time blaming May, or the Cabinet or the Brexiteers; instead he blames the Party for holding a referendum that wasn't needed, failing to throw out the result, voting for Article 50 and for not having planned for a Leave result in the referendum. He feels seriously let down by his own Party.

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 38204
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 31 Jul 2017, 04:31

I suspect he is not alone. Spin can't cover up the catastrophic mess that austerity and the Tory cat fight have got us into. Even the most rabid Tories must be having second thoughts. The LibDems are the only party that has a clear position, Labour is woolly on the subject of Brexit. The SNP is acting solely on self interest (nowt wrong with that!). I despair looking at a system that can produce such a massive cock-up and what is even worse, blindly carry on with it because it would be too embarrassing to admit their mistake. The one thing I am sure of is that every sensible person in the country wishes we weren't here regardless of party loyalties.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 7533
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 31 Jul 2017, 09:32

Just when we're about to leave the EU and people are clamouring for more immigration the government is saying the NHS needs thousands more nurses just for looking after mental health patients. At the same time various agencies and companies presently based in the UK are setting up operations abroad either to replace the ones here or to deal with non-UK business outside the UK.

One of the older villagers here said to me yesterday "We're getting to the end of the plank".

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 38204
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 01 Aug 2017, 02:47

Quite Tiz. And yet we flock across the channel to eulogise the 'Glorious Dead' at Tyne Cot...... As a nation we seem to have bipolar disorder when it comes to Europe.
Well..... Scaramuci didn't last long did he. He turned out to be a looser cannon than Trump. As if firing his new Communications Director ten days into the job wasn't enough, read THIS Guardian Report. It's alleged that Trump wrote the partial and misleading statement attributed to his son in explanation of the meetings with the Russian lawyer. Once again he ignored the advice of his legal eagles who said he should come clean. What does he do for an encore? This President is a disaster.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 38204
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 02 Aug 2017, 07:20

Bugger politics.... I can't see any ray of light on the horizon. We get the government we deserve but remember it wasn't me that voted for them!
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 38204
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 03 Aug 2017, 03:30

See THIS BBC report on the intervention by the Chair of the Prison Governor's Association. She is devastatingly critical of the way prison policy is being run. Remember the recent attack on conditions by the retiring Inspector? Then look at this week's riot at the Mount.
Successive administrations have attempted to save money by underfunding and under-staffing prisons, some being farmed out to the private sector where they are run for profit. All these 'policies' have failed and we have some prisons which are almost at 200% of ideal capacity. Experienced officers leave and the pay structure is a shambles. How much more evidence do we need of government failure both in management of the system and sentencing policy? This is just one more example of how badly served we are by what should be fundamental parts of the social infrastructure and the situation is worsening all the time under austerity. 'Fiddling while Rome burns' springs to mind.
On another front it's my old beef, At a time when we are in the most dangerous political situation I can remember, there is a deathly hush from government while the clock ticks. All we hear is news of internal squabbles in Cabinet and non-news in the media. The reporters are in the dark as well and the most trivial items are seized on. We are on a rudderless ship at the moment and the consequences are beginning to be seen in society and the financial world. 'Sleep-walking' is a phrase that many have used about our progress towards the future. I fear they are exactly right......
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 38204
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 04 Aug 2017, 06:53

See THIS for a report on the shocking statement by Sir James Munby. When a senior judge like him makes such a direct statement it is nothing less than an attack on the government. He will not be popular but he highlights the shameful state of our public services, in this case the neglect of facilities for young people like the girl 'X'. The government's response is the nonsense reaction saying how much they are spending on Mental Health. This won't help this poor young lass who is actually desperately ill.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 7533
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 04 Aug 2017, 13:24

There was a report in the newspaper about the poor editing of reports coming out of the White House. Lots of typos and mistakes. One described an event as `unpresidented', another referred to a military `aberration' instead of operation. So it's not only Trump who's not up to the task.

In Germany the motor industry is in disarray. One revelation after another, of cartels, scheming to avoid regulations and so on. Angela Merkel has reportedly said that 7 out of every 10 workers in Germany is in some way involved with their motor industry, so it's a very big issue. All the big German auto companies seem to be involved and they've each been rushing to be the first to tell on the others so they can get softer treatment. As well as all the damage they've caused for themselves they are now faced with Tesla and Google competing with them to produce electric cars.

And if that's not bad enough for the Germans they've been told today that the eggs in their kitchens are contaminated with insecticide Aldi has said they should be returned or destroyed. (Actually the eggs are from the Netherlands who are the largest producers of eggs in Europe.)

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 38204
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 05 Aug 2017, 02:43

Mediocrity and incompetence has become the norm in so many fields. Add falling moral standards and you get greed and dishonesty. Sounds familiar?
Trump is living in a parallel universe and our lot over here seem to have the same disease. They are sleep walking into a disaster while assuring us it will all be OK. I heard a rabid Brexiteer the other day saying that warnings about the economy from Carney were 'Project Fear 2'. I rest my case.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 7533
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 05 Aug 2017, 09:10

Lord king, the former Bank of England boss, was on the Today programme this morning telling us what caused the Credit Crunch. He had all sorts of reasons but never mentioned the reckless lending and the selling on of loans. It was due to everything but the banks themselves.

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 38204
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 06 Aug 2017, 03:59

We listen to the same programmes Tiz. That struck me as well. There is a bias towards lenient treatment the higher up the pecking order you get. Look at HMRC and their preferential treatment of the big tax dodgers. A self employed tradesman or woman is nailed to the wall but the big offenders get deals or a nod and a wink.
Have you noticed the rising tide of concern being expressed by business and trade organisations about the lack of progress towards clarity on what will happen on Brexit? Meanwhile, all we get is a deathly hush from Downing Street and negative comments from the EU about the UK sleepwalking....
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 38204
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 07 Aug 2017, 04:14

Read THIS report of Vince Cable's opinions on the way the young are being 'shafted' by the Brexiteers. I have a certain amount of sympathy with his views as I have noted the jingoistic sentiments referring back to days of empire and 'Great Britain', in my view totally antediluvian sentiments. I have avoided such infantile mistakes and voted Remain!
Cable is correct in identifying the internal conflict in the Tory Party and elsewhere between the Brexiteers and the Remain faction as being the root of the lack of rational debate and progress on Brexit. Personally I would like to see a complete rethink and a U-turn, Brexit is so obviously a can of worms. This is an instance of how at times political process can fail completely, the fear of changing course is trumping common sense.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 38204
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 08 Aug 2017, 05:33

THIS is worth reading. Lord Neuberger is warning about the lack of clear direction from the government on the Justice system after Brexit. On the radio this morning he pointed out the problems and like everything else connected with Cameron's Catastrophe it's a minefield.
In the absence of any clarification from Downing Street this must be added to all the other appeals for information that are flooding in. Businesses have to plan ahead and at the moment this is impossible.
See THIS FT report on the findings of the British Retail Consortium which lays bare the facts behind what on the face of it is a steady as you go measure of retail trading. In fact discretionary spending is falling, paradoxically, the factor that is protecting the overall figure is the sharp rise in food prices. There can be little doubt that we are seeing the upper limit of domestic credit. What happens once that is reached?
Another straw in the wind for you.... Warren Buffet, one of the most savvy investors in the world is reported as holding over $100billion in his cash reserve but is not investing despite (or perhaps in consequence of)a record high in US stocks. Worth giving a bit of thought to this, he evidently has no confidence in the current situation.
The dark clouds are gathering and we hear nothing from the government.....
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

User avatar
Tizer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 7533
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 19:46
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Tizer » 08 Aug 2017, 11:34

The Treasury has reported that Britain's payment to the EU is £156 million, not the £350 million claimed by the Brexiteers on their battle bus. LINK

EDIT LATER: You just don't know who to trust these days. The Press Association interpreted the figures wrongly - see here: LINK

User avatar
Stanley
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 38204
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 12:01
Location: Barnoldswick. Nearer to Heaven than Gloria.

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Stanley » 09 Aug 2017, 03:15

That will all be forgotten shortly when we are forced to agree the divorce settlement. At the moment the sums vary from £100billion to Nowt. I suppose the only 'certainty' we have is that both these will be proved wrong!
The bottom line is that there is no domestic political news....
However.... Read THIS NY Times report on what Trump said while on a 'working holiday' at one of his golf clubs.... Briefly North Korea has said it is contemplating a missile strike on the US base at Guam and President Trump has said that the US will respond with 'fire and fury'.
I am puzzled and wonder if I'm missing something here. On the face of it this sounds like the brinkmanship that some of us Crumblies have seen before as the preamble to outright war when neither party backs down. The rhetoric is ramped up until either negotiations start or war begins. But there is so little reaction world-wide that I wonder what is going on. Is this simply two deranged leaders shouting at each other or is it perhaps more serious. Are we sleep-walking into something far more serious than the media and political reaction suggests. I think I need reassurance.
Stanley Challenger Graham
Stanley's View
scg1936 at talktalk.net

"Beware of certitude" (Jimmy Reid)
The floggings will continue until morale improves!

plaques
Donor
Posts: 2112
Joined: 23 May 2013, 22:09

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by plaques » 09 Aug 2017, 07:43

Talking to my pal who has just moved from New York to Hawaii and asking what he thinks of the situation he said that although Hawaii was supposedly the first in the firing line it would probably be years before they had the technology to hit a target and get it to detonate. His, and a lot of other peoples, biggest fear was that Trump and his cohorts were daft enough to make a preemptive strike and become the last President of the United States.

User avatar
Whyperion
Senior Member
Posts: 1426
Joined: 23 Jan 2012, 22:13
Location: Now in Burnley , After leaving Barnoldswick , except when I am in London

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Whyperion » 09 Aug 2017, 12:14

Geography is not my strong point , but I always thought N Korea was not the largest of countries, and any kind of wallop on them would quite literally have fall out on China and S Korea. A conventional military sea/air bombardment would probably be enough, but the US record on avoiding civillian areas is non-existant so difficult for a sane US administration to take any kind of moral high ground. I suppose the two presidents could just swap countries there appears little difference between them.

Bruff
Avid User
Posts: 820
Joined: 24 Jan 2012, 08:42
Location: Hoylake, Wirral - for the moment

Re: POLITICS CORNER

Post by Bruff » 09 Aug 2017, 12:39

‘……At the moment the sums vary from £100billion to Nowt’.

Just to be clear, these figures are press speculation, largely in this country I might add. The EU side have come up with no hard figures at all. All they have produced is a paper on the budget lines, with Treaty base I think, to estimate the liabilities - freely available online and we have linked to it here. This is a mechanism if you like for coming up with a final figure and which will be what it is and a basis for a negotiation. I understand that we are yet to see a response this paper from the UK side, or an alternative set of expense lines as a counter-basis.

But the only figures bandied around are speculative figures in the UK media.

I would have thought a hot war on the Korean peninsula would result in its utter devastation on both sides of the DMZ. This in itself would lead most rational people to suspect it would never get that far. The prevailing view for some time was that all the North Koreans wanted was to be recognised, by the US, as a nuclear power and once achieved they would sit down sensibly at a negotiating table as equals. I’m rather less sanguine these days given we have little better than a baboon in the White House. An idiot on one side but with sense on the other generally results in reasonable compromise; an idiot and a baboon not so much.

Richard Broughton

Post Reply

Return to “Current Affairs & Comment”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot]